Sky and VoIP

ac00785

:mad: Sky are discriminating against those of us that have a VoIP telephone connection (Blueface) as the Sky box will not callback using it. This is becoming more popular and Sky are going to have to be more accomadating. I have to return my new multiroom box as call back willl not work even though the box says the telephone line is connected!! Sky say the alternative is to pay the full price for the mirror sub! I dont think so!! Isn't value for money with one box!!

PlasmaFish

Well I can't see why they don't just plug into your broadband, just like the Xbox. it would save you and them money on PSTN calls and the skybox would be able to give a better service when using the red button features befitting from the speed of broadband.

I'd tell them just want to watch telly, and I’m not interested in any of the Skybox office stuff, as I’ll just download them.

Never really like the idea of sky a phone line.

Capt'n Midnight

But they make money when you press the red button..

ac00785

The reason why the phone line must be connected at all times is that they can track the box; they want to stop people from using the box in another house or sharing a mirror sub with one of your friends.

causal

ac00785 wrote:

:mad: Sky are discriminating against those of us that have a VoIP telephone connection (Blueface) as the Sky box will not callback using it.

Did they give any technical reasons describing why it "will not callback"?
I'm looking for factual information (not speculation )

The reason why the phone line must be connected at all times is that they can track the box; they want to stop people from using the box in another house or sharing a mirror sub with one of your friends.

I know of someone who uses it without the connection to the phoneline.
iirc it's only for the first year it has to be connected to the phoneline.
iirc2 it's only for ordering special events that it uses callback.

causal

ac00785

My original box is out of contract so doesnt need to be connected but since I ordered multiroom all boxes must be connected for a further 12 month period. The only way they allow no telephone connection is that you pay two subs and therefore do not get the discounted rate of €15 per month on the additional box. They log all monthly callbacks and if your box is still in contract and not connected you will receive a warning letter and then dis-connection. Was talking to Aaron C about problem with Sky and he has a number of people with the same problem re callback. He spoke with Sky but he says they will have to get a work around as VoIP becomes increasingly popular. By the way I have abided to all points in contract so should therefore be their problem. Had to cancel the multiroom and return the sky box. :mad:

causal

Thx for the update.
It's quite annoying that you pay for a service and the providers of that service create a lot of hassle for you - hassle which is required simply because they are determined to restrict your use of that service i.e. they don't want you to bring your digibox to your friends house - oh no, he has to buy his own digibox etc. :mad:

I think to get Sky off their lardy asses and motivated to facilitate VoIP is for individual customers, as you have done, to contact them directly about the VoIP issue. The more customers they know are having this problem now the sooner it's likely to be fixed.

Is the number for ordering Sky digital: 0818-719852 - looks like a UK number, but it's the only one I saw on the site?

causal

WillieFlynn

causal wrote:

Is the number for ordering Sky digital: 0818-719852 - looks like a UK number, but it's the only one I saw on the site?

causal

That's an Irish number I have come across a few other 0818 numbers reciently.

causal

*puts on anorak*
I thought that was an interesting fact so I had a look at this ComReg doc which said

0818 A Universal Access Service 6 Ref. ODTR Doc. 98/55

Which means 0818 is assigned for 'Universal Access Service' and is followed by 6 digits (0818-xxxxxx).
So I checked the referenced ODTR Doc. 98/55 which defined Universal Access Service as follows:

Universal Access Services
Universal Access services allow the called party to receive calls at a single or several
different locations depending on the time the call is made, the location of the caller,
etc. The caller is charged for the cost of the call, and the called party is charged for
any additional costs involved in providing the universal access service.
Allocations of Universal Access numbers will be made in the range:
0818 200 000 to 0818 500 000.
Numbers will be allocated in blocks of 10,000.

So it's a number for presence and location based FollowMe applications. :cool:

The curious thing is that the Sky number (0818-719852) is outside the range of the above allocations 0818 200 000 to 0818 500 000.
So I phoned it and then checked my blueface online call history and it came up as 0818-NationalCall which is charged at €0.082 offpeak - more than 7 times more expensive than calling a local or UK number offpeak (it's 8 times more expensive at peak times)
This is in agreement with the blueface rates which list "Ireland - NationalCall 0818"

So maybe NationalCall numbers are in the range 0818-500 001 to 0818 - 900 000 or so
It's ironic that it would be 7 or 8 times cheaper to phone direct to Sky in the UK than to use their Irish 0818 number.
Sky really aren't VoIP friendly

causal

iano

causal wrote:

The curious thing is that the Sky number (0818-719852) is outside the range of the above allocations 0818 200 000 to 0818 500 000.

The Universal Access range (0818)719800-719899 is allocated to BT Ireland. (Ref: http://www.comreg.ie/numbering/num_nat_num_search.asp)

causal wrote:

So I phoned it and then checked my blueface online call history and it came up as 0818-NationalCall which is charged at €0.082 offpeak - more than 7 times more expensive than calling a local or UK number offpeak (it's 8 times more expensive at peak times)
This is in agreement with the blueface rates which list "Ireland - NationalCall 0818"
It's ironic that it would be 7 or 8 times cheaper to phone direct to Sky in the UK than to use their Irish 0818 number.

The National Numbering Conventions document states:

11.2.6 Universal Access number Usage
Network operators shall not charge originating callers to 0818 numbers more than the retail charge for making the call if calculated at the standard National tariff rate of the network operator from which the call is made.
Note: ‘Standard’ in this case means not taking account of weekend offers or other special prices.

As Blue Face charge a peak charge of €0.019 per minute for National calls and €0.136 for 0818, it would appear that they could be in breach of the regulations (unless they somehow escape regulation or are not defined as a "Network Operator"). Interesting

logic

crap, this is going to be a problem for me too. Is there any way to configure the modem on the digibox?

logic

hook my digibox up to the line last night about 9pm (there was some ppv bills on the card) and it has tried to dial out 86 times so far. I think its safe to say that its not working properly.

TimTim

I'm not expert on this at all but I think this has to do with the fact its actually a modem in the sky box, modems are very picky about things like modulation and packet loss,

If you had some packet loss while talking on the phone our brain could compensate for that lost beat and carry on the conversation

However a modem isn't that intelligent as a brain and isn't able to compensate for packet loss etc over a VoIP connection

BigMoose

This is a real bugger, as with the current Sky offerings and my rather flakey NTL digital setup I'd really consider swapping it for Sky, but not at the cost of getting an Eircom line! Just have to hope NTL improve the reliability of their service I guess.

causal

It seems the problem is with Multiroom and any of the interactive functions (voting, box office, etc.) not with standard viewing.

afaik it's also possible to use the satellite dish rather than a phone line but I'm not certain on the details.

I phoned Sky (0818-719852) to ask for details/solutions but after 5 minutes on hold I moved on :rolleyes:

causal

ac00785

causal wrote:

It seems the problem is with Multiroom and any of the interactive functions (voting, box office, etc.) not with standard viewing.

afaik it's also possible to use the satellite dish rather than a phone line but I'm not certain on the details.

I phoned Sky (0818-719852) to ask for details/solutions but after 5 minutes on hold I moved on :rolleyes:

causal

Sky have the cheek to charge us for ringing them and then keep you on hold for 25-40mins. I made three calls to them in the past week and cost me nearly €10. They historically used an 1800 number but decided to screw us a little bit more!!

The Smircher

When I was with sky, the only time I ever connected the digibox to the phoneline was during the initial installation. Was never really thrilled about the idea of the box 'phoning home' so I disconnected the phoneline. Never used any of the interactive services, and Sky never said a word to me about. They're still trying to get me to re-subscribe.

ac00785

The Smircher wrote:

When I was with sky, the only time I ever connected the digibox to the phoneline was during the initial installation. Was never really thrilled about the idea of the box 'phoning home' so I disconnected the phoneline. Never used any of the interactive services, and Sky never said a word to me about. They're still trying to get me to re-subscribe.

Sky DO enforce the digibox connected to phone line at all times. They monitor callbacks and will issue a warning letter threatening dis-connection

Cabaal

ac00785 wrote:

Sky DO enforce the digibox connected to phone line at all times. They monitor callbacks and will issue a warning letter threatening dis-connection

After all you agreed to their T&C's that you'd leave your sky box connected to your phone line for the first 12 months of service, so they are within their rights....sadly

WillieFlynn

Cabaal wrote:

After all you agreed to their T&C's that you'd leave your sky box connected to your phone line for the first 12 months of service, so they are within their rights....sadly

But I bet they they didn't say that the phone line could not be a VoIP line.

Phone them up on the VoIP line and so that you can show them that it works and send them a copy of the list of call attempts; saying that you can't help it if their box doesn't work. Or just ask them to replace it with one which works

ac00785

WillieFlynn wrote:

But I bet they they didn't say that the phone line could not be a VoIP line.

Phone them up on the VoIP line and so that you can show them that it works and send them a copy of the list of call attempts; saying that you can't help it if their box doesn't work. Or just ask them to replace it with one which works

Already tried that but to no avail! T & C's state a fixed and operational phone line which a VoIP line is.

WillieFlynn

Some one I know has just got Smart Telecom broadband. I asked him to see if a normal voice band modem would work over the line, as I thought it may not work as they use VoIP form the local exchange.

He found that it doesn't work, this will mean that sky boxes also won't work for anyone who has Smart Broadband. This could force sky to change the way their boxes work, if a sizable number of people's boxes can't call back.

causal

MoDems and faxes can (but it's not guaranteed) work over VoIP under certain circumstances.
Check out posts 14 & 15 in this thread Sky Digital and VOIP

causal