Help? Sending money other peoples accounts

Brian Houlihan

Hi.
I am trying to send money from my account (BOI) to another persons account (TBS i think).

Yet my local bank say I can't. But the person I am trying to send the money to is pretty sure I can.

Help would be appreciated?

BuffyBot

Why do they say you can't do it?

Brian Houlihan

Hi,
They said I can't send because the person doesn't have an account with BOI and that I could only send money to the person if it was on a regular basis eg. if I was their employer which i'm not

Sleipnir

That's pants.

I'm with BOI and each month I transfer money (online) to an E.B.S. account without a problem. Amounts and dates vary.
I just had to register the account number and the sort code.
Or I can do it by phone banking.
Call Banking365 (not your local branch) and ask them to set it up for you.

Then call your branch and ask them if anyone from head office has contacted them in the past 20 years. Maybe BOI forgotyour branch exists so they haven't had any training since!!!!!

365 number is 1890 365 365

nlgbbbblth

Brian Houlihan wrote:

Hi.
I am trying to send money from my account (BOI) to another persons account (TBS i think).

Yet my local bank say I can't. But the person I am trying to send the money to is pretty sure I can.

Help would be appreciated?

yes you can

- by standing order (not advisable if it's a one-off)
- by telephone banking
- by internet banking
- by walking into a PTSB and lodging the money directly
- by posting a cheque to their branch with a note saying 'please lodge to...'

antoinolachtnai

BoI used to do it, but they stopped, you are quite correct. The reason has to do with BoI having problems with transactions 'bouncing' and having to clear them up. The reason is that almost 10 percent of account numbers written on dockets are illegible or wrong (apparently, that's what I've heard, don't have a source). In the great Irish tradition, BoI suspended the service completely, rather than trying to sort out the shortcomings of its Byzantine paperwork system.

The irony is that you can transfer money to an account anywhere in Europe for free, but not within Ireland. I would suggest that you get the other party's IBAN, go to the Forex desk, ask for the form for a euro transfer, fill it in and see if they will accept it and do the transfer.

If they don't, hang on to the form and make a complaint to the Banking Ombudsman.

In practical terms, the easiest thing to do might be to walk down to the local branch of the bank you want to transfer the money to, and lodge a cheque or cash to the other party's account that way.

nlgbbbblth

antoinolachtnai wrote:

BoI used to do it, but they stopped, you are quite correct. The reason has to do with BoI having problems with transactions 'bouncing' and having to clear them up. The reason is that almost 10 percent of account numbers written on dockets are illegible or wrong (apparently, that's what I've heard, don't have a source). In the great Irish tradition, BoI suspended the service completely, rather than trying to sort out the shortcomings of its Byzantine paperwork system.

not strictly correct.

In 2000 the five main banks in the clearing system (AIB, BOI, UB, NIB, TSB) decided to stop accepting other bank's unencoded paper items for processing. Unencoded paper essentially referred to handwritten lodgment slips or manual credit transfer dockets. The reason was largely because of what you refer to - errors in account numbers etc and the difficulties in reconciling same.

That decision put a stop to Mr X walking into AIB and filling out a credit transfer slip to lodge monies into a non-AIB bank account [for arguments sake, say he wanted to lodge to his son's BOI account].

In practice unencoded paper was accepted for a couple of more years after 2000 but was discouraged by all the banks.

The only methods Mr X can now lodge money to his son's account have been outlined above.

There is one more.

If his son has a pre-encoded lodgment book for his BOI account he can then give Mr X one of the lodgment slips from it and this will be accepted by the AIB.
Why is this acceptable?

Because it is encoded paper and as the destination account details are pre-printed there is no danger of them being read incorrectly.

In summary you can walk into an AIB and lodge money to a BOI/UB/NIB/PTSB account if you a pre-printed lodgment docket for the account in question.

Blaming BOI's 'Byzantine paperwork system' is wrong in this instance.

Redleslie2

antoinolachtnai wrote:

The irony is that you can transfer money to an account anywhere in Europe for free, but not within Ireland. I would suggest that you get the other party's IBAN, go to the Forex desk, ask for the form for a euro transfer, fill it in and see if they will accept it and do the transfer.

If you don't have the other party's IBAN, what's the foolproof way of transferring cash to a foreign bank account? I've spent the last 2 days trying to transfer money to a german account. Went to the post office first as the site says you can do it by euro giro. The woman behind the counter didn't know what I was talking about and sent me to the bank. Went to the bank, got given a form but I didn't have the IBAN number, just the account number and sort code of the german bank. They then tell me I can do it without the IBAN number but it'll cost €20 and it'll take 4 days. Went home to think about it. Went into a different branch today and told them specifically I wanted to transfer cash into a German bank account and wouldn't mind paying the €20 etc. "Have you got the account number etc?" "Yes. I do." She then made out a bank draft and gave it to me. I was just too tired at that point to point out again that that's not what I wanted. At no point was I asked for the german account details. Now the person I'm sending the draft to will have to take time off work to go down and cash the bloody thing. Can anything else go wrong? The bank on the draft is not my German friend's bank. Will that be a problem?

nlgbbbblth

Redleslie2 wrote:

If you don't have the other party's IBAN, what's the foolproof way of transferring cash to a foreign bank account? I've spent the last 2 days trying to transfer money to a german account. Went to the post office first as the site says you can do it by euro giro. The woman behind the counter didn't know what I was talking about and sent me to the bank. Went to the bank, got given a form but I didn't have the IBAN number, just the account number and sort code of the german bank. They then tell me I can do it without the IBAN number but it'll cost €20 and it'll take 4 days. Went home to think about it. Went into a different branch today and told them specifically I wanted to transfer cash into a German bank account and wouldn't mind paying the €20 etc. "Have you got the account number etc?" "Yes. I do." She then made out a bank draft and gave it to me. I was just too tired at that point to point out again that that's not what I wanted. At no point was I asked for the german account details. Now the person I'm sending the draft to will have to take time off work to go down and cash the bloody thing. Can anything else go wrong? The bank on the draft is not my German friend's bank. Will that be a problem?

The agreement between the banks in the eurozone is as follows:

2 day value payment with IBAN. Amount less than €12,500. Charge is 51c.

[2 day value means a payment made on Monday hits the foreign bank on Wednesday]

Any deviation from this i.e. same day value payment request, no IBAN just account no and sort code, amount greater than €12,500 then the standard fees will apply. Varies from bank to bank but think it is 0.75% of value with a minimum of €19 and maximum of €44

Sending the funds without an IBAN shouldn't take longer than 3 days.

Re - the German Draft. The beneficiary may not get value from his bank for it straightaway - i.e. they may insisting on waiting for it to clear. In practical terms German banks are reasonable enough and are capable of recognising a bank draft when they see it. It may depend on how his bank views him as a customer whether or not they will let him draw against it. If he is a good enough customer they may cash it for him.

Redleslie2

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Any deviation from this i.e. same day value payment request, no IBAN just account no and sort code, amount greater than €12,500 then the standard fees will apply. Varies from bank to bank but think it is 0.75% of value with a minimum of €19 and maximum of €44

Yes, this is what I wanted done in the bank today and i thought she was going to do it when she asked me if I had the german account number and sort code details but then she sort of ignored me and went and did a bloody draft. It was a bit weird.

Re - the German Draft. The beneficiary may not get value from his bank for it straightaway - i.e. they may insisting on waiting for it to clear. In practical terms German banks are reasonable enough and are capable of recognising a bank draft when they see it. It may depend on how his bank views him as a customer whether or not they will let him draw against it. If he is a good enough customer they may cash it for him.

Don't mind waiting a few days for it to clear. Thanks for putting my mind at rest somewhat anyhow. How does one go about sorting out the IBAN number? Have a word with the bank I assume?

nlgbbbblth

Redleslie2 wrote:

How does one go about sorting out the IBAN number? Have a word with the bank I assume?

IBANs for Irish accounts appear on the bank statements.
Alternatively just contact your branch and they will be able to tell you your IBAN over the phone - once your supply them with your account number and they are happy they are speaking with the account holder.

An IBAN is essentially a combination of the sort code, account number and a couple of other identifying characters.

The German bank should be able to supply their customer's IBAN in a similar fashion.

nlgbbbblth

Redleslie2 wrote:

Yes, this is what I wanted done in the bank today and i thought she was going to do it when she asked me if I had the german account number and sort code details but then she sort of ignored me and went and did a bloody draft. It was a bit weird.

That's not good service. Hindsight is a great thing but if you didn't want the draft you should have refused it there and then. It would have been a matter of the girl cancelling the entries and ripping it up. Unfortunately this has to be done on the day of purchase as settlements are made daily to their internal drafts account.

If you went back to your bank with the draft on Monday and said you didn't want it, they would make you wait for a refund. They would have to request the funds back from the German bank that the draft is drawn on. That would take 5/7 days.

Redleslie2

nlgbbbblth wrote:

That's not good service. Hindsight is a great thing but if you didn't want the draft you should have refused it there and then. It would have been a matter of the girl cancelling the entries and ripping it up. Unfortunately this has to be done on the day of purchase as settlements are made daily to their internal drafts account.

If you went back to your bank with the draft on Monday and said you didn't want it, they would make you wait for a refund. They would have to request the funds back from the German bank that the draft is drawn on. That would take 5/7 days.

I had no time or inclination to argue unfortunately. She had gone into a back office for about 10 minutes to do it, there was a massive queue behind me, I was already late for another appoinment and I hate holding up queues. I've no chance to get to the bank again for another 3 or 4 weeks, can't get time off work, so it'll have to do. Dunno why they couldn't have just told me what you told me about IBANs. She didn't even get the transfer fee correct.

RainyDay

nlgbbbblth wrote:

The agreement between the banks in the eurozone is as follows:

2 day value payment with IBAN. Amount less than €12,500. Charge is 51c.

[2 day value means a payment made on Monday hits the foreign bank on Wednesday]

Any deviation from this i.e. same day value payment request, no IBAN just account no and sort code, amount greater than €12,500 then the standard fees will apply. Varies from bank to bank but think it is 0.75% of value with a minimum of €19 and maximum of €44

I did a transfer by IBAN from my NIB account to Italy earlier this year and I was amazed to get an email from the recipient same day confirming receipt and I definitely only paid the standard 51c charge.

vector

Bank drafts (and post) are great

<rambling>
a few weeks ago I wanted to pay an English person about GBP 15
I had his sort code and account number, even the IBAN, but there were fees and forms and it would take 3 days+, and I would have a currency change fee first,

so I just bought a GBP draft (in BOI commission free cos I'm a student) and posted it with a EUR .60 stamp and he had it 2 days later
</rambling>

Misticles

take the money out and go to the tsb and tell them you want to lodge it into someones account. i had to do that today

Genghis

vector wrote:

Bank drafts (and post) are great

<rambling>

so I just bought a GBP draft (in BOI commission free cos I'm a student) and posted it with a EUR .60 stamp and he had it 2 days later
</rambling>

Well, he had the draft. He then would have to find time to get to his bank, allow time for it to clear, and for the funds to be lodged to his account. In this scenario, the time interval between the time you handed over cash and the time your mate could withdraw it could easily be two weeks:

1. 1 day to arrange draft
2. 2 days for post to arrive
3. 1 day to "lodge" the draft
4. 5 days for draft to clear
5. 1 day for funds to appear as drwable

All working days, 10 in all = two weeks. Plus, while you got away commission free, I once had the discomfort of paying someone this way for a £3 auction on ebay and it cost me something like €12 in total between commission, exchange rate margin and postage.

vector

I tried to buy a draft for GBP 3.75 in BOI and the woman looked at me as if I had just slapped here in the face (I hate that smarmy look that some people have especially Irish women, that sounds bad but you're nodding your head in agreement as you read this) she said the amt was too small that it is "policy" not to sell drafts under GBP 10 so I said ok and stepped over to another foreign exchange counter (it was a big bank) and no problem

anyhow back to the post
I was fortunate that the receiver was trusting he posted the item on sight of my draft so it was 2 days

nlgbbbblth

Genghis wrote:

Well, he had the draft. He then would have to find time to get to his bank, allow time for it to clear, and for the funds to be lodged to his account. In this scenario, the time interval between the time you handed over cash and the time your mate could withdraw it could easily be two weeks:

1. 1 day to arrange draft
2. 2 days for post to arrive
3. 1 day to "lodge" the draft
4. 5 days for draft to clear
5. 1 day for funds to appear as drwable

All working days, 10 in all = two weeks. Plus, while you got away commission free, I once had the discomfort of paying someone this way for a £3 auction on ebay and it cost me something like €12 in total between commission, exchange rate margin and postage.

vector wrote:

I was fortunate that the receiver was trusting he posted the item on sight of my draft so it was 2 days

I have used bank drafts (Sterling and US Dollar) for well over 200 transactions on ebay / online ordering and on all bar ONE occasion the recipient has sent the goods as soon as he/she has received the draft as opposed to waiting for it to clear.

They know the draft cannot be returned for lack of funds so what have they to gain by holding onto the goods?

The sole exception involved a guy waiting four days for it to clear.