Driving with no insurance....

rsta

Hello everyone

I drove my friends car in September last year as she was not well enough to drive, but we got stopped by a Garda who asked me for my licence and insurance.

I didnt have my licence on me, so went and produced it within the 10 days.

But now I am after getting a summons to court on the basis that I did not have insurance to drive her car...

Am i screwed?

It is my first ever offence... I would really appreciate any advice...

Much thanks

Rodney Trotter

Your fooked, and rightly so!


(That's why taxis were invented!)

Downtime

From Oasis.gov.ie

Motor insurance offences: generally punishable by a fine of up to 2,500 euro, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.


Since 1st June 2003, where the court decides not to impose a disqualification drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insurance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court.

In the case of a first offence of driving without insurance, the court may decide in special cases not to impose a period of disqualification or to impose a period of disqualification of less than a year.

So what if it is a first offence - many people go through life with 0 offences, you broke the law and should pay accordingly. If you crashed into some they would be fooked too. Stuff like this drives everyone elses insurance upwards. If you had hit someone, you'd have no comeback with "It's my first offence"

BrianD3

Were you insured to drive her car when you were stopped. I.e. did you have your own insurance policy which covers you to drive other people's cars third party. If you had this then you will have no difficulty proving that you were insured to drive the car.

If not, then yes you are screwed. Expect a fine, 5 penalty points, a ban etc.

rsta

hi thanks for the replies
ive read up loads on www.oasis.gov and the www.motornet.ie websites but i would like to hear from people who have had this experience or know someone who've had this charge...
i feel like such an idiot like, and i am only after getting a car (taxed and insured..ok) about 8 months ago... i cant get banned like

would you recommend going to a solicitor or going to court alone...

thanks

rsta

Hi BrianD thank you for ur reply i thought she had an open policy as her boyfriend and sister often drive her car... but i've found out since that she doesnt have an open policy, but her boyfriend is a named driver, unlike me or her sister...
Also, this happened in September and I got my car insurance the following month..

Rodney Trotter

You need to consult with a solicitor and hire one for the day. Silly silly mistake.

BrianD3

rsta wrote:

Hi BrianD thank you for ur reply i thought she had an open policy as her boyfriend and sister often drive her car... but i've found out since that she doesnt have an open policy, but her boyfriend is a named driver, unlike me or her sister...
Also, this happened in September and I got my car insurance the following month..

Tell the court exactly what you've written in this thread. Be honest, apologetic and humble. Admit your mistake. It will be clear to the judge that you are sorry and are not a scumbag. You wil be fined and will get 5 penalty points however you might escape the ban.

Our man in Havana

Rodney Trotter wrote:

You need to consult with a solicitor and hire one for the day. Silly silly mistake.

Pointless really getting a solicitor. They cost money and do very little. Also hiring one gives the impression you have money hence a bigger fine.

Better to show up and throw yourself at the mercy of the court.

Rodney Trotter

WIth all due respect bond, that's a load of garbage. rsta is in serious trouble and needs proper legal advice, not the tripe you've just come up with.

seamus

rsta wrote:

Hi BrianD thank you for ur reply i thought she had an open policy as her boyfriend and sister often drive her car... but i've found out since that she doesnt have an open policy, but her boyfriend is a named driver, unlike me or her sister...

Consult a solicitor. I wouldn't tell the judge "I thought I was insured", as the onus is on you to ensure you're correctly insured. But a solicitor may be able to advise you on the best way to phrase/approach it.

Also, this happened in September and I got my car insurance the following month..

That's OK. At the time of getting your insurance you had no convictions or claims pending. Check the conditions of your existing insurance though. You will be probably be obliged to tell your insurer once you're convicted of driving without insurance.

Rodney Trotter

I've heard it all now. Hiring a solicitor means you have loads of money and the Judge will give you a bigger fine!


@rsta, I hope you don't take the likes of this sh1te on-board.

Our man in Havana

How many courts have you watched? I have watched enough sittings of the district court to know this.

You are best to plead your case and take your punishment. Whats a solictor going to do extra but charge you €200 for 60 secs work?

The other thing they would be useful for if one had priors and was facing a spell in the jail.

whippet

as side from hear say and speculation I believe the OP is looking for some facts.

I think I might be of assistance, a work collegue recently had the same problem, he was summonsed and facts were clear, he was banned from driving for 12 months and a couple of hundred quid fine. He didn't have legal representation with him.

He then appealled (he needs a licence for work), hired a very expensive legal team, got a date and tried to argue the case (he gave a soppy story etc ..) the judge gave back the license but imposed a €2000 fine and issued some penalty points.

The crux of the matter was he was lucky get the appeal and to get a judge willing to re-instate the licence.

All in all it cost him €2k of a fine, about the same in legal fees, two months off the road waiting on the appeal and a few points.

A lesson in hindsight is really .. don't trust anyone about insurance unless you see the policy yourself.

Our man in Havana

I wonder how much he paid for a solictor and barrister for a circuit court appeal?

The circuit court judges would be more likely to allow a restoration but they will fine the max amount.

rsta

hello thanks everyone for you replies

I just rang a solicitor out of interest, who told me he charges €200 per summons, i have 2 summons (1. not presenting insurance, 2. no insurance (user))

plus I will still have to pay any fine on top of the solicitors fees. I am not made of money and really would not like to have to pay for a solicitor too....

Another Q please, would it be a good idea to bring my friend with me to court?

Rodney Trotter

Bond-007 wrote:

How many courts have you watched? I have watched enough sittings of the district court to know this.

You are best to plead your case and take your punishment. Whats a solictor going to do extra but charge you €200 for 60 secs work?

The other thing they would be useful for if one had priors and was facing a spell in the jail.

Absolute balderdash!

Watching court proceedings qualifies you to dismiss the idea of hiring a solicitor? Well what do we need Law school for?

Our man in Havana

You could apply for free legal aid, but i doubt this is available for motoring offences.

€200 a summons? He must be used to the tribunal circuit. Seems steep to me.

Rodney, We shall just agree to differ.

SparkyLarks

rsta wrote:

Another Q please, would it be a good idea to bring my friend with me to court?

i'd go with the solicitor If I was you

400 euro isn;t that much in the big scheme of things. You might have to get a loan or borrow some form youor sister.

What is your friend going to do??

mike65

Rodney Trotter, one more intemperate outburst and you'll be banned for a week.

Mike.

kdevitt

I was in court a few months back after an uninsured driver hit me - the fact that he hit me barely got a mention in court. He got €250 fine for not being insured, €250 for not presenting his driving licence, and 6 months disqualification (reduced from a year due to his solicitor simply asking for a reduced disqualification!!)

The guards were very disappointed (as was I) as it was very lenient compared to what they were expecting... so I'd imagine that its similar enough to what you'll get. I was told you probably won't be able to insure a car for less than €5000 for about 3 years after the disqualification expires though, as you'll have an endorement... (not that it'd bother the guy who hit me, because he couldn't be arsed insuring it in the first place)

Rodney Trotter

mike65 wrote:

Rodney Trotter, one more intemperate outburst and you'll be banned for a week.

Mike.

Care to clarify your remarks?

Or define intemperate?

mike65

For a kick off attacking Bond-007 as you have. Take issue with what a fellow poster says but do so without acting like the bar-room bore.

This post did'nt help your cause, nor this one

and then this

As for moderators? Wow, I'm shaking.

I just did a seach and I see you've been away for about 7 months I'd like to say welcome back but somehow I feel I'd be lying.

Mike.

Farls

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I think also that your better off with a solicitor, if just for peace of mind.

It's a catch 22 situation, but at the end of the day you didn't have insurance and your going to have to take whats thrown at you (sorry, i know that doesn't help)

you should get away with a reasonable fine and 6 months disqualification. After this yes your insurance will be steep for a few years. There really is no good to come out of this. It wouldn't be so bad only you have a car yourself.

Best of luck with it anyway, its far from the end of the world.

Farlz

jhegarty

rsta wrote:

and i am only after getting a car (taxed and insured..ok) about 8 months ago.

who is your insurance with ?

rsta

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Will my insurance really be so steep after this? I am already paying 1600euros as this was my first time being insured, i was hoping it would go down next time.

Is it possible i wont get disqualified? Especially as I did not own a car of my own at the time..?

Jhegarty, I am with Axa insurance.

Also, because I was served my summons on Sunday, I have heard that this is actaully illegall, will that fact help me out in any way??

Thanks

seamus

Actually, now that I think of it, get thee to a solicitor now. A Garda has to make a complaint within 6 months of the offence. Considering it's nine months later, it would be worth consulting a solicitor to see if the summons is notification of this complaint.

Edit: Actually the date the complaint was made, is written on the summons. Check it out.

Bogger77

rsta wrote:

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Will my insurance really be so steep after this? I am already paying 1600euros as this was my first time being insured, i was hoping it would go down next time.

Is it possible i wont get disqualified? Especially as I did not own a car of my own at the time..?

Jhegarty, I am with Axa insurance.

Also, because I was served my summons on Sunday, I have heard that this is actaully illegall, will that fact help me out in any way??

Thanks

It doesn't matter when the summons was served, it's been served.

jhegarty

rsta wrote:

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Will my insurance really be so steep after this? I am already paying 1600euros as this was my first time being insured, i was hoping it would go down next time.

Is it possible i wont get disqualified? Especially as I did not own a car of my own at the time..?

Jhegarty, I am with Axa insurance.

Also, because I was served my summons on Sunday, I have heard that this is actaully illegall, will that fact help me out in any way??

Thanks

Are you sure you don't have the driving other cars option with axa.. i know its on some of their policies?

rsta

Hi Seamus, the complaint date on the summons is january 5th.... Its unreal that it takes so long to process these things. Because I went in to the garda station like a couple days after, to show my provisional licence as I didnt have it on me when we were stopped. I spoke to the garda on duty who took a photocopy, i asked him what was the timeframe that i would be hearing from them if they would press charges and he said oh sure if you don't hear from us within about 6 months it has been written off or processed or he said words to that effect. Then as an afterthought he askedme my age, im 25, his immediate response then was ah well you'll be grand then don't worry about it at all.... So now I'm getting a summons 10 months after this....

I'm so afraid of getting banned, is it likely i will be banned??

Oh just to paint a picture of me i'm 25, not a racer driver, have a full time permanent job and have no convictions or points on my licence, never been caught speeding, just thought that info might help with your advice... thank you so much everyone for replying.

rsta

jhegarty wrote:

Are you sure you don't have the driving other cars option with axa.. i know its on some of their policies?

Hi Jhegarty, no as i have only a provisional licence i am not covered to drive other cars. i rang them up yesterday to check. They said if i had a full licence i would be covered though...

Also, i was stopped for driving my friends car 2 weeks before i got my own car and insurance...