Building a system, suggestions?

Dooom

Right, mate wants a good-as-hell system. I've warned him about bits and pieces but he's a stubborn fool and I'm not one to not spend someone else's money. I spec'd him up this so far, his budget was about €2700 give or take a bit. He said he wants watercooling and to overclock a bit so any advice from overclockers etc. is very welcome. And one more thing, he's fairly knowledgeable on computers, but he's too busy at the moment to do this so he's gotten me to
Here goes, the items with a * are the ones he specifically requested:

AMD Athlon 64 FX-55 2.6GHz*
DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR
2Gb* DDR PC3200 OCZ EL Platinum Dual Channel kit
Gigabyte GeForce 7800GTX 256MB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 300GB SATA*
Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS
NEC DVD recorder ND-3520A*
Samsung 19" LCD Syncmaster 913N
WaterChill CPU Cooling kit Antarctica KT03A-L20/220v
Hiper PSU ATX 580W Black
Logitech Z-5500 5.1*

All of the above is from Komplett.ie, bar the RAM which is from pc-memory-upgrade.co.uk.
Add to that a floppy drive, new mouse and keyboard, and he already has a Raptor from his old system.
The case is the only thing I haven't a clue on.
What will fit all that stuff inside nicely and will keep the rest of the stuff cool aswell?
I had spotted the Chieftec Dragon on Hitide.ie, but is it any good?
Also, on komplett they say that that watercooling kit is for socket A, 478, 754 and 940, but not 939? Any ideas? On OCUK it says it works with 939 though...

And finally, a question about RAM, if a mobo says it supports DDR400, can I put in like PC4400 or some such RAM?

Any advice/suggestions are more than welcome. The sooner the better.
Cheers.

Endurance Man

Another 1 of these :rolleyes: , crisis. Just look back on the other 10 of them and buy all of that .

Dooom

Yeah but this's different. I'm asking advice from overclockers because this one's going to be overclocked...

Endurance Man

Well iv heard that the lanparty mobo is basically made for overclocking so i think thats a winner. I believe the same goes for that ram if im not mistaken. OC it does not even void the warranty .
Dont really need to OC the 7800 , but think thats up for it.
One thing i think your should try do is go for a custom watercooling setup, im told they are much more effectivce.

Richard Dower

Personally i would get the NEC 3540, it's only €49 from Komplett. Might i suggest this 2GB kit:

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_el_ddr_pc_3200_dual_channel_platinum

2-3-2-5, best timings available for a 2GB kit. The Hiper seems pretty good...though one might suggest a more recognised brand such as OCZ or the Enermax 600W SLI model. Though since i don't know much about Hiper i can't say they are bad.

You can put any memory you like on that motherboard. Though personally if you're getting a mobo such as the DFI you could really go with some OCZ PC5000. At DDR625 it has massive potential for overclocking and memory bandwidth.

FX-55 San Diego? + DFI + PC5000....you should have no problem getting 2.8GHz from the CPU, even on air cooling.

Set the HTT to 3x, set the CPU multi to 9x (from 13x), set the CPU voltage to 1.450. Now increase the FSB to 312. 312x9 = 2.8Ghz!!

You're not pushing the CPU to much, your voltage is reasonable, you're getting huge memory bandwidth. The memory supports voltage of 3.0v without invalidating the warranty. You've got tons of options.

If i had such a kit this is what i would do.

dubdvd

ok then he wants to overclock ..thats good and he has 2700 to blow thats even better ....ill start at the top ..This is just my veiw on it ...

OK then the FX55 is a good choice but be careful which one he gets ..what i mean by this is that most of the FX55's on sale now are the newer ones which are built on the new San Diego core and not the clawhammer like the one that i have at the moment ...And from whats ive been reading the newer FX55 does'nt overclock aswell as its older version ...My one has got up as far as 3.6ghz from within windows "software overclock" and from the bios its booted @ 3.2ghz ...But from what i had read is that they had problems getting it up past 2.8ghz and keeping it stable...As you can see from here http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2005/06/27/amd_fx_57/4.html the FX57 with the new core San Diego is finding it hard to get completely stable at 3.0ghz and its defualt is 2.8ghz ..So to rap this up yes tell him to get the FX55 but not the newer one ....

Ok you say your friend knows his stuff with computers ,if so the motherboard he should go for is the DFI NF4 SLI -DR ..It has more sub-sections in the bios than the boards.ie for-sale forum ..it is packed with tweaks and overclocking goodies ..but you would have to know the basics of overclocking , before you can fully get to grips with all of them ...As it has been said before .. it is the main overclocker's SLI mobo at the moment ..i have one but i also have the ASUS A8N SLI ... which for somebody who has'nt tried to overclock is much more friendlier it allows you to overclock in 5% ..10% ..20% segments from the bios and from windows aswell if he is only starting out with overclocking he could do a lot worse than the ASUS ..its more user friendly and ive always found it to be rock stable with overclocking ..but if he knows his CAS# from his TRAS# ..Then the DFI is his man....

The DDR mmmm you asked can this mobo take anything above pc 3200 ...YES it can ..is the simple anwser ...pc3200 runs @400 mhz ..the DFI mobo above has memory made for it by OCZ which can be clocked to 625mhz which is called pc5000 ..when these are placed in the motherboard they will be at the BIOS's defualt which is 400mhz its only when he overclocks it that it can reach these speeds ..by upping the FSB on either the CPU or the memory or both together ..my choice would'nt be that memory that your friend has picked , its nothing amazing ..dont get me wrong its good memory but not for heavy overclocking ..The stuff i said from OCZ is sh1t hot ..as WiZzard will tell you ..And if he has 2700 euro to blow thats what i'd go for ..and just to throw this in aswell i find 2 gig of DDR a bit of an overkill unless your doing some heavy video encoding ..and some of the latest CPU's are having problems handling 4 x 512mb ..for some reason the intergrated memory controllers on the venice and some san D's have some bugs in them ..
if its the ASUS mobo he goes for then try some of this

The 7800GTX in SLI ..i cant knock this ..but what i would say is this ...if he is not in a major rush to get this rig up and runing i'd hold back for another month or two to see how ATI does with its CROSSFIRE cos ive a feeling it will knock a set of 7800GTX's out of the water ..but for now there's no doubting that the 7800's are the king of the heap at the " moment "

The hard drive he picked and the dvd-rw are fine ..theres not much can be said there as you said he has a RAPTOR there already ,if he had two for a raid set-up it would be even nicer..As i take it he will be running his OS from the RAPTOR and storage from the SEAGATE...

The soundcard is fine ,but as far as i know the newer one is about to hit the shelves in the shops very soon ..but to be honest will joe bloggs notice the difference on his standard human ears ..i dont think so ..so the one he pick should do fine unless he has ears like DR spock..

Hiper PSU ATX 580W Black...i dont know much about this baby but im using the emermax SLI 600 watt and it fine ..No problems at all ..if this is the hiper im thinking of , It looks queit good for the price they go for ..They are a neat modular PSU with the male and female sockets looking like that of a audio cable and the PSU itself covered in a steel blue mesh ..But the big question is how good are the rails on it ????? and is there dual rails and is it suited for SLI as in does it have two pci-e connectors ???..and can it hardle a full system load with all the extra bells and whisles ?????...The PSU is normally a component most people seem to under-estimate but yet if your going to be overclocking ..it is one of the more important one's ..so do your homework GOOGLE away and for a more honest reply ask the guys here ..which you are doing

The speakers are fine ..Its not something i know to much about so maybe sombody eles can help you with that one ..As far the 19" tft is concerned make sure he gets one with the lowest reponse time because all that money he has just spent on his shinny new 7800GTX's will be blowing in the wind ...If your going to spend some heavy cash on great graphics so you can see the hairs standing on the neck of the zoomie facing you in DOOM3 just as you remove his neck ..Then you dont need a TFT thats going to cause ghosting and shadows and jumping and to try to aviod this get a something with at least 16ms if not less maybe 8ms In this day and age you should have 8ms "as this one has"..TFT's still have a little way to go to be as good as CRT's for gaming ..so tell him to watch that ..and as he knows this one that he has picked is just that 8ms ..so that fine

last but not least the watercooling set-up ...If this is the one he is planning on buying here http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=123969&cks=SPK i find it to not be worth the money , as it only has a single rad to cool down the CPU-GPU-CHIPSET ..if he wants to do some mid-range overclocking , i cant see this doing great for him ,not with everything on the one loop and a single 120mm rad if i was him i would frist think of which case he is going to get before he picks his watercooling stuff as most people will tell you... you go out and get this great big WCing set-up and then you cop on that you've no where to put it or that you've now only got a small choice's of case's to choose form ..if he will be running his 2 X 7800GTX's and his FX55 and his chipset "which with the DFI mobo and some ASUS will be hard to find "...Then he will need at least a dual if not a treble 120mm rad ..but then it's back to what case's can handle this size ..???Then you have to think will i have to mod my brand new case that ive spent so much money on and take a dremel or a jigsaw to it OR
anyhow i think with the watercooling !! he is better to buy his kit bit by bit it might be cheaper and you get what you want and more importantly what he needs ..mix and match ..but doing this he will learn more about whats keeping his dream machine nice and cool and he will feel better at the end of it rather than opening the box and installing a pre-made up watercooling kit ..if he needs a hand , There is plenty of us here willing to help with advice and so on ,myself inculed

ill leave it at that as ive just noticed i cant feel at least two of my fingers from all of this typing

Tell your mate the best of luck with his new rig

Endurance Man

Crisis dub :eek: , *steps back and pats his little post**

WizZard

He's got €2700 of a budget!!! Wow!
Right, take Dub's advice on the FX-55. Get the old Claw if you can. (Reason, a lot of the new Rev E cores have trouble pushing the FSB over 270Mhz)
According to Anandtech Crossfire is sh*t, ok maybe not **** - but it doesn't stand up to 6800GT's in SLi, and in some cases a single 7800GTX!! Pre-release drivers I know, but I still think nVidia will be king of the hill when Crossfire arrives, at least until R520 comes out (Q4 '05 IIRC). Anandtech Crossfire Review

He's not gonna get a lot for that money if he wants to put good speakers and a good TFT in there too, to be quite honest, but I'll spec something out anyway.

WizZard

I've just been trying to put together a system with the specs you wanted for the price you wanted and it's silly!
He cannot get those starred items plus a decent case to hold them and a decent >19" TFT for that money. Nevr mind half-decent WC setup (even boxed)!
And I don't think a Hiper 580W will cut it to be honest. You need at least the PSU that both Dub and I have, the Enermax 600W SLi Edition.

Oh, and I've just noticed that the 2gb was starred. Does he realise that his overclock will be severely limited with 2gb of RAM?? At least on his CPU/memory. Why does he need 2gb?? Serious graphics/video work?

<edit>

OK, I've put together a shopping list on Komplett here
AS you can see it's price is €2874.91. I've added a Silverstone case which is nice, but not the nicest. He will need a big case for all these components, including WC setup. As dub said, you will need a big radiator - at least a BIX IMO.

NOw, that shopping list does not include PSU, RAM, or watercooling kit. For these I would recommend either Enermax 600W (SLi Certified) or OCZ Powerstream 600W. Roughly €160 each.
RAM I would recommend OCZ PC5000 EL DFI nF4 Special (now out of production due to Rev E core being crap as outlined above, but still found on www.shop4memory.co.uk / www.pc-memory-upgrade.co.uk) or the new Mushkin Redline XP4000. Both retail at around €300.
For watercoling I would recommend this Danger Den kit found on www.coolercases.co.uk @ £195 (€289)

So there you have it. There is the system he has asked for - slightly over budget. Total approx. €3624
Oh and BTW, this system will still not beat mine in 3dMark05

if he goes without speakers and monitor it would probably come in for that budget. The speakers are the mutt's nuts though, I have the previous edition!
</edit>

jesus_thats_gre

If he has any sense, he would be buying a 23/24 inch widescreen monitor with a really high native res so that graphics card can actually be fully utilised..

The new HP 23 inch reviewed on Anandtech is meant to the dogs ****..

WizZard

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

If he has any sense, he would be buying a 23/24 inch widescreen monitor with a really high native res so that graphics card can actually be fully utilised..

The new HP 23 inch reviewed on Anandtech is meant to the dogs ****..

I would agree with this too. A 19" is a waste with that spec PC, but the budget doesn't even stretch to it, never mind a 24" behemoth!