DHL loses my parcel, now wants €

ambro25

init MEGA-RANT/

Howzat for rip-off Ireland? Didn't know where else to post, so in here it goes, and here goes...

Back in early April'05, I order an mp3 player from mp3palyerstore.com in Canada. Supposed to be DHL'd and all that, payment via Paypal... usual stuff.

Mid-April, nothing on doorstep, and I receive a DHL bill for custom duties that twice (€21) what it should be (€12). I call DHL, get a new bill sorted and a trace put on whatever-the-f*ck happened to my 3 day delivery.

Turns our DHL 'lost' it, apparently at the Canadian end. How the f*cking hell do I get billed for something that's not even entered the country yet? (More to the point, how does DHL 'loses' a parcel when everything's f*cking barcoded?)

But wait, we're not done yet (I'll skip on the hoops and jumps with DHL and the online store to get replacement or refund - suffice to say, I've only got my eyes to cry at the moment).

Comes home tonight to find an 'anonymous' (read: no provenance clues) envelope marked Private & Confidential.
Opens envelope.
Finds it's a letter from a debt recollection agency 'respectfully advsising' me to pay up the €12 customs duty bill or else.

Me (i) f*cking explodes, then (ii) prepares all records (emails, correspondence) in readiness for 'a little chat' tomorrow, then (iii - real time) vent my anger in this here Forum.

/end MEGA-RANT.

More to follow tomorrow, I shall update thread and hopefully with a Court transcript in due course.

It's not the sum - hell, I'm tempted just to get BoI to count & bag me the sum in €0.01s just to teach those f*ckers a lesson - it's the principle.

Ri_Nollaig

that is a f.ucking joke!
did u ever get ur mp3 player? wat did the company u orginaly bought off say?

ambro25

Neither, nor. Just 'prodded' mp3players.com tonight by email to ask what's what, and will 'prod' both DHL and the collection agency tomorrow.

BTW, I thought to put this in "rip-off Ireland" because I'm mad at DHL Ireland.

The most annoyign thing is that -€1 gets you €10- it's probably just (DHL) computers talking to (debt collection agency) computers and no f*cktard at either companies bothering to check details, just mailing stuff and letting the system roll on... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Our man in Havana

Tell Dhl to shove it.

jimmycrackcorm

go to the debt collection agency office and demand an explanation for the debt. Be angry - Be very angry.

Also head up to the DHL office in Swords and start roaring at their receptionist demanding an explanation.

ambro25

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

go to the debt collection agency office and demand an explanation for the debt. Be angry - Be very angry. Also head up to the DHL office in Swords and start roaring at their receptionist demanding an explanation.

That, my friend, will not be difficult at all - if they start playing dumb and just tell me to "pay or else". In fairness, they might not know the specifics if DHL didn't inform them that the parcel was never delivered, never mind entered the country.

So, I think I'll start with a couple of polite calls this morning, but tape them (anyone knows if the UK legal duty to inform them that I am recording the phone conversation applies in Ireland?).

But all the same, if they want to play hardball, I will go to Court and invoke a situation of extortion (being, as I understand it, the demand of a sum of money which is not owed). See how their Counsel likes that one.

As for DHL, fraud will do - In fact I do wonder how many people have already been shafted this way...

Bond-007 wrote:

Tell Dhl to shove it.

Would love it if it was that simple.

Unfortunately, I have already dealt with a debt collection agency once in my life - back in UK, another such angry story involving car insurance paid monthly, unbeknownst to me under a credit agreement, insurance broker going bust and doing a runner with the premium, credit company asking me for full premium and setting the hounds on me when I stated it was up to the receivership administrator to pay them since I'd resiliated my insurance contract according to T&C's before the broker went bust - still got shafted :mad:

If it goes to Court and they win (at least in the UK that's how it works), you credit scoring goes poof and then good luck getting a mortgage, never mind even opening a bank account

So I'll give it a shot, and if it looks decidedly shaky I'll pay in €0.01 (that's 1287 coins) and demand a receipt from their receptionist

Gilgamesh

just FYI< you do need to inform the other side if you are recording.
that is normally the stage where they hang up on you or start screaming at you to turn the recorder off

ambro25

Thanks Gilgamesh, I asked as I'm not (yet) totally up-to-speed on IE Statutes in matters of consumer affairs (but fast getting there ).

denismac

So I'll give it a shot, and if it looks decidedly shaky I'll pay in €0.01 (that's 1287 coins) and demand a receipt from their receptionist [/QUOTE]

You might need to check out that route with your bank. Small coin ceases to become legal tender over a certain amount so the company could well refuse the coinage and you would be left with egg on your face. Just a bit of friendly advice.

ambro25

First update - just concluded a 13 minutes call with 'Maragaret' @ DHL Customer Service, who in the end told me that I had to contact the debt collection agency myself for them to lodge a query with DHL.

In reply to which I asked what this was going to achieve, considering that I was already making this query, and that (as far as I know) debt collection agencies don't do f*ck all about such situations unless their instructor (i.e. DHL) tells them to... Cue much "erm-ah-eh-stutter" and "I spoke to accounts" and "nothing we can do" slotted in there for good measure.

So, onto the collectors next (fangs growing at this stage) :mad:

ambro25

denismac wrote:

You might need to check out that route with your bank. Small coin ceases to become legal tender over a certain amount so the company could well refuse the coinage and you would be left with egg on your face. Just a bit of friendly advice.

Will check with bank at lunch, gotta pay a cheque in.

Second update - called the debt collectors, a right funny cow at other end of line who couldn't understand that I wanted them to lodge an enquiry with DHL (as per DHL's instructions) to solve the matter, just wanted to know if I had paid and if not "will I pay or not".

Said no and the byatch was about to just update record (ready for prosecution) and hang up on me, but (after reasoned but potent argument - "you guys are an accessory to fraud, I thought you'd want to know why before you waltz into Court" + "want to speak to supervisor"), she eventually managed to transfer me to someone at DHL (WTF? :eek:) who will look into the matter and "call me back shortly".

More to follow, no doubt.

holly_johnson

Isn't it laughable that YOU have to justify yourself even when it's someone else's f*ck up??
What a joke. Ring the Office of the Director of Consumer Affairs pronto and get them on to DHL. http://www.odca.ie/
You haven't received the goods you ordered so I'm pretty sure you would have a reasonable claim with them.

vibe666

mad stuff, but the sort of thing you come to expect in ireland.

CJhaughey

ambro25 wrote:

Said no and the byatch was about to just update record (ready for prosecution) and hang up on me, but (after reasoned but potent argument - "you guys are an accessory to fraud, I thought you'd want to know why before you waltz into Court" + "want to speak to supervisor"), she eventually managed to transfer me to someone at DHL (WTF? :eek:) who will look into the matter and "call me back shortly".

More to follow, no doubt.

Sounds like the Debt collection agency is an arm of DHL or should that be tentacle?
Maybe they have their own inhouse repo staff?

Dellgirl

if they start playing dumb and just tell me to "pay or else".

What can they do? The "or else" bit - what does it mean. Surely its not worth their while sending someone round to rough you up (or do they do this - could they?) or grab the telly for flogging to pay a debt of €12? It sounds a bit extreme.
Are you based in Dublin?

defo keep up to the minuet reports going!

ambro25

holly_johnson wrote:

http://www.odca.ie/

Much thanks for that, Holly. Just sent them an email -

Dear Sirs,

I wish to obtain some information about my rights under Irish Statutes as a customer in a troublesome situation involving DHL Express (Ireland) as the supplier and a debt collection agency (Intrum Justitia, Dublin 15). I live in Dublin.

The facts of the matter are, briefly:

_I ordered an mp3 player online from a Canadian store in February 2005, specifying 3-5 days international delivery by DHL.

_I did not receive the player within the specific period, but let the matter rest awhile as Post & Courier deliveries had been somewhat erratic in that period in my area of residence, and I thought that it would eventually turn up, knowing that DHL track everything placed in their care.

_I did receive a first invoice from DHL in March 2005, by mail, for €21.94 as import & VAT duty, of which I queried the amount by phone.

_I received a second invoice from DHL still in March 2005, by mail, for the correct amount of €12.87 as import & VAT duty, and requested by phone that my delivery be traced, which was now well overdue.

_DHL Express Ireland confirmed by phone in early April that my delivery was classed as 'lost', apparently at the Canadian end of the supply chain.

_I contacted the Canadian store, which undertook to solve the matter with obtaining insurance refund from DHL Canada & thereafter refund me or send a replacement unit. (I am still awaiting anything at all as of today, but I understand that this 'side' of the transaction is not your concern or remit).

Now, for the contentious issue insofar as my rights as an Irish customer are concerned:

_I have received yesterday a letter from "Intrum Justitia", which is a debt collection agency, which is instructed by DHL Express and which is demanding me to pay the €12.87 invoice for import & VAT duty or else proceedings may ensue.

This for an item which
(i) DHL have
(a) failed to deliver and
(b) expressly acknowledged as having lost themselves
and
(ii) which never entered the country, whereby surely no import duty in respect of which is payable, whether it has been invoiced (in advance of delivery) or not

I have today:
(i) contacted DHL Express at 08:37, who directed me to contact the debt collection agency for this organisation to lodge a query with DHL
(ii) contacted "Intrum Justitia" at 08:57, with whom I experienced great difficulties in obtaining that they lodge the query (apparently it is not something which they do - they are only wanting to know whether I will pay or not).

For your information, I do hold copies of all relevant correspondance (invoices, emails, letters).

Being an upstanding, law-abiding person with an established record of solvency in Ireland and a reasonable understanding of contracts and agreements, I am therefore appalled that I shall be subjected to 'demands' by debt collection agencies mandated by a company in breach of it's own contract of services with myself, and justifiably feel quite victimised.

I would welcome any input on your part as a specialist agency of the Governement in respect of this situation, as I am very reluctant to enter into proceedings with "Intrum Justitia", particularly considering the small sum involved, but feel that the overall situation differs little from fraud and/or extortion by DHL and it's collectors.

Thanking you in advance for the attention which you may bring to this matter,

Kind Regards
ambro25

@Blingarella -

I'm not familiar with debt collection agencies/procedures in Ireland. In the UK, they usually issue proceedings for default of payment in the Small Claims Court and have to obtain a judgement before being able to mandate bailiffs.

holly_johnson

That's a good e-mail. Hopefully they will act on it and get back to you.
I used to work in the Dept Enterprise, Trade & Employment (of which the ODCA is a subsidiary) so if you get no joy with a reply, let me know and I might be able to ring someone to get it looked at for you.

Good Luck!

Sponge Bob

there is no EVIDENCE the mp3 player entered the country which is when tax is due, complain to the revenue fraud office about this and make sure you sue DHL and Intrum who took on a debt that does not exist in law

ambro25

Sponge Bob wrote:

there is no EVIDENCE the mp3 player entered the country which is when tax is due, complain to the revenue fraud office about this and make sure you sue DHL and Intrum who took on a debt that does not exist in law

One of my points exactly. I'll now wait and see what happens first, which could be any of:
(i) [most likely] next letter of debt collectors advising they are issuing proceedings, in Tuesday's post
(ii) contact by DHL (or whoever it was the debt collectors passed me onto) telling me they've reviewed the file and I still owe them
(iii) contact by DHL (or whoever it was the debt collectors passed me onto) telling me they've reviewed the file and it's all redundant/brushed under carpet
(iv) contact by OACD telling me whatever would be useful to handle the matter pre- or in-proceedings.

Update on paying with 1287 €0,01 coins - from the bank 15 mins ago: coins are legal tender, period, but they have to be bagged up in any particular denomination (e.g. bag of €5, etc.). Would I push the vice to individually bag up 1287 coins? Mmm...tempted, if it turns into a rainy bank holiday week-end.

holly_johnson

I can think of worse activities for a rainy Saturday!

vibe666

afaik, you can't go into a shop and try and pay for something with millions of pennies, but you should be okay with them as it's not a retail outlet. that's imho, so don't take it as gospel.

CJhaughey

Blingarella wrote:

What can they do? The "or else" bit - what does it mean. Surely its not worth their while sending someone round to rough you up (or do they do this - could they?) or grab the telly for flogging to pay a debt of €12? It sounds a bit extreme.
Are you based in Dublin?

defo keep up to the minuet reports going!

From the IJ website:

Collection Letters/Telephony

Treatment plans include customer contact via a combination of letters, telephone calls and field agent visits, designed to maximise speed of payments.

A variety of means are available to a debtor to enable them to pay. The lettering process includes payment opportunities via giro slips or issued payment books. Credit card payments can also be made via the telephone.

During the lettering process the latest state of the art telephony system is used to handle both inbound and outbound calls

Field Collection

Our nationwide network of 40 field agents can collect payments on the doorstep, when face-to-face negotiation is indicated as being appropriate. Agents are supervised by a regional management structure and a dedicated head office control, audit and support area.

Field agents are also able to provide a range of collection services.

ambro25

Odd how there's no suggestion of the Small Claims Court, which I am now sure is in operation in Ireland for such matters...

Then I shall obtain, from my esteemed banker, the princely sum of €12,87 in €0.01 coins, neatly bagged in 13 little baggies, and have them ready to hand upon the visit of the 'Field Agents', from whom I shall request a receipt.

Photographs shall be taken of myself in the company of theses gents when they turn up, badges verified and likewise photographed, and should they refuse to take payment in the form provided, they shall be politely told to f*ck off and that I would see their sorry asses in Court, evidence in hand of (i) failure to deliver the product, (ii) [corresponding-] tax fraud, (iii) intimidation/attempted extortion and (iv) refusal to accept legal tender.

Might add victimisation, emotional duress/trauma and anything else I can get a friend ambulance-chaser to suggest, for good measure.

That's if I'm present if/when they turn up. God forbid they try to intimidate my wife in my absence, with our 1-year old daughter at home, because then it's gonna be personal... and when it gets personal I unfortunately tend to lose it...the last time that happened, well... there was a van that had an unfortunate reversal in a certain integrally-glass plated (12ft by 6 ft) entrance lobby of a car dealer during a very badly-negotiated 3-point turn

BrianD

Very well written e-mail to DHL and I hope that you get your MP3 player soon. However, this does not belong in this forum. It is not a case of "Rip Off Ireland" as the term is popularly understood but an outstanding customer service between a customer and supplier. Perhaps there should be some sort of Consumer Affairs forum.

ambro25

"CA Forum" - Good suggestion.

Well, as I wrote earlier, I put it there (i) because, after perusing most of the top bar sub-section shortcuts, I couldn't find where else to put it and (ii) because I feel ripped off by DHL Express (Ireland).

No news yet from any party involved/contacted

Not really bothered about receiving an mp3 player now. I had ordered it for my wife who is at home with our daughter and takes her walkies (Summer weather allowing) often. In the end I bought her another, better one (weird, 512MB flash-based with built-in 1.5" screen and mpg4 compatible after a fashion, a bit like pix below) as us husbands often do :rolleyes:
Money back would be nice, though.

Our man in Havana

The small claims court cannot be used by a business to collect debts. They must issue a civil summons in the district courts. This would cost them a few hundred at least and for €12.70 they won't bother. AS for sending "field agents" that won't happen either. They can't hurt your credit either as they 1. must obtain district court judgement and 2. They are not a bank.

It's all bluff and bluster. They are no bailifs in this country except the county sherriff and he needs guess what? A district court judgement to collect.

For €12.70 none of the above will happen! I would just sit tight and the whole thing will go away quietly. i speak from personal experience.

Ri_Nollaig

ambro25 wrote:

Then I shall obtain, from my esteemed banker, the princely sum of €12,87 in €0.01 coins, neatly bagged in 13 little baggies, and have them ready to hand upon the visit of the 'Field Agents', from whom I shall request a receipt

please tell me u wat not give those as.sholes anything! even if it is 1,287 1cent coins :P
also did u get any news from the canadian company that u originaly got the mp3 player from?

ambro25

Two emails this morning from the Canadian guys.

Allegedly still awaiting claim form from DHL Canada, they'll lodge a further enquiry/investigation and I can expect a refund within 3 to 4 days of them receiving the form.

...yeah, right! Whatever :rolleyes:

Gillo

Ok, I can see why you're pretty annoyed, but;

1; Please watch the language, first it won't come across any good when dealing with, DHL, Debt collectors, the courts or anyone else
2; You haven't mentioned getting a proof of delivery at all. surely thats the first thing you would do
3; Taking photographs of the debt collectors without their expressed consent could land you in serious trouble
4; I get the idea that you are in over your head on this one, talk to someone who can advise you on the right route to take
5; Do you really want to wait while the debt collectors count over a thousand 1 cent coins
6; For your own good and nothing to do with this situation, you need to de-stress you sound seriously stressed

mp3guy

DHL are right bastards. Once ordered something from hong kong with them, it came on my birthday as planned, but the bastards dumped an extra €86 bill on top :mad:

ambro25

gillo wrote:

1; Please watch the language, first it won't come across any good when dealing with, DHL, Debt collectors, the courts or anyone else

I do not expect to deal with anyone based upon the contents of posts in this thread. Kindly refrain from surmising how I might address people from DHL / the debt collection agency and whomever, without knowing me.

gillo wrote:

2; You haven't mentioned getting a proof of delivery at all. surely thats the first thing you would do

I did not get a proof since there never was any delivery.
It is pointless to request any proof from the debt collectors (or for them to obtain proof from DHL), who only initially get told who owes them money and how much, nothing else (their admission, not my guess).
It is pointless (so far) talking along this line with DHL (e.g. "check your manifests & call off of the hounds"), since they so far have left the matter for me to deal with.

gillo wrote:

3; Taking photographs of the debt collectors without their expressed consent could land you in serious trouble

If they show up at my door, they're on my land without my express consent. How about their serious trouble? I'd say that if they object, therefore I suspect (that they be illegitimate or somesuch).

gillo wrote:

4; I get the idea that you are in over your head on this one, talk to someone who can advise you on the right route to take

You offering? Seems I'm doing fine at the moment, you condescending [beeep]

gillo wrote:

5; Do you really want to wait while the debt collectors count over a thousand 1 cent coins

Yes... I'll say "please", note.

gillo wrote:

6; For your own good and nothing to do with this situation, you need to de-stress you sound seriously stressed

:rolleyes: