Best Fighter

dlofnep

The potato famine slammin'. And there is only one of those.

cmb.

Tim_Murphy wrote:

I don't know, No biting, No eye gouging sounds pretty biased to me! :rolleyes:

- and lets not forget rule changes that happended at the fighters meeting - rules relating to the use of gloves for striking martial artists and the use of wraps - how detailed info relating to fighters conditions/injuries were fed to the gracie camp during the event - ect etc - all widely documented facts

columok

cmb,

true. true.

But how much of a difference it made to many of the fights is negligible. A good well rounded MMA fighter would have crushed Royce (i think they knew that) but none of those present in 1-5 bar shamrock and severn would have been much of a threat.

They just altered the degree of Gracie advertising. Royce was always gonna win UFC 1 and 2

cmb.

dont get me wrong - i was never trying to make out that royce didnt deserve to win 1,2 and 4 - nor do i think that bjj was not the dominant discipline in those events - the one thing i was pointing out is that a lot of things went on behind the scenes to stack the deck - despite the fact that royce and bjj were superior

and as for the remark about me stating that bjj was a hybrid - well, bjj was a hybrid of jujustu (as taught by master maeda to carlos gracie) and helios techinques - so i will be having my ten points and my brand new car,thanks

Kevin_rc_ie

i assume "master" madea was teaching judo.

judomick

a history lesson for mr.cmb , maeda (count coma whatever you want to call him) was sent to brazil by the kodokan (judo hq) to spread the word! judo is what was taught to the gracies, carlos didnt have any techniques he was taught them by maeda (the judo guy) carlos taught helio they then (heres the clinching word) evolved what they had been taught by maeda into what is now bjj , bjj is an evolution of judo not a hybrid so no car my friend
http://www.kobukaijujitsu.com/Brazhistory.html


judomick yes i am he
THE judomick ( i take it there has been impostors?)

Kevin_rc_ie

"often copied, never equalled".

that Twokings guy kept on saying he was you, we never believed him.

dlofnep

judomick wrote:

a history lesson for mr.cmb , maeda (count coma whatever you want to call him) was sent to brazil by the kodokan (judo hq) to spread the word! judo is what was taught to the gracies, carlos didnt have any techniques he was taught them by maeda (the judo guy) carlos taught helio they then (heres the clinching word) evolved what they had been taught by maeda into what is now bjj , bjj is an evolution of judo not a hybrid so no car my friend
http://www.kobukaijujitsu.com/Brazhistory.html


judomick yes i am he
THE judomick ( i take it there has been impostors?)

In addition to that, just before Maeda went to brazil, Kano's school was beat by a Fusen Ryu jiu-jitsu school that emphasised totally on ne waza.. Shortly after, Kano added it to the syllabus and increased the time spent working on the ground game. When Maeda went off to brazil, since the new syllabus had just introduced more time spent on ne waza, that's the theory why BJJ is more ground orientated than Judo.

cmb.

so basically - your whole point - if we cut through the attitude & smart ass comments is that you would dispute the use of the word hybid - as you see it as purely a development of techinques - which is a fair arguement - though i dont think that im the first to point out that what helio took was the art of jujustsu and some tried and tested techinques that he developed and merged them together into what we now call brazilian jiu-jitsu - if you dont like the use of the word hybrid then fine - you perogative - but dont try make out that i dont know what im talking about and drop the attitude

Kev

Which juijitsu ryu did the techniques come from and are there any techniques in bjj which couldn't have come from judo ?

Kevin_rc_ie

pulling hair, they do that a lot in bjj. also fingers in the face lol.

judomick

cmb, apologies if i offended you, the point i made was for something to be a hybrid it has to emerge from two things or incorporate traits of two things, the only thing carlos and helio were taught was what maeda showed them! they then evolved what they had been shown, they didnt have any other techniques from other arts so bjj is not a hybrid of any thing thats my point.

dlofnep

Kev wrote:

Which juijitsu ryu did the techniques come from and are there any techniques in bjj which couldn't have come from judo ?

Judo had limited or no ground work until it went against the ryu jiu-jitsu school. Afterwards, Kano added it. So it's safe to say, if Kano's school didn't lose to the Fusen Ryu school then BJJ today would be Brazilian Judo and groundwork as we know it, wouldn't be as popular today.