Ridiculous moderation decision

Rozie

I was recently banned from the Bands and Musicians forum - for not "accepting criticism" apparently, though the moderator in question refused to show me even enough respect to provide a reason.
Not only was the "criticism" immature and blatantly nothing but rubbish insults, some of the moderators backed this. I posted similiar thread at a forum which should be much more uppity about it, and had no such problem.

People were acting a ridiculous manner. To prove this point, I posted a series of "insults" towards Felyla which were completely ridiculous, and in quotation marks, and asked him if that kind of thing would constitute criticism. Those were quite obviously actual flames, but showing that flaming someone over something they might not do very well doesn't make it right.

I checked in today and saw that my "ass was moderated" - I apologise if my behaviour was somehow out of hand, but I don't appreciate this pretentious "bad ass" moderator behaviour.The topic is named "Need advice" and the moderator's name is Giblet.

This is highly hypocritical and no doubt said moderator wanted to encourage people to flame my "Behind my back" as I was banned before the thread was locked, or even before I was warned. No warning was issued, which is also important to note.

I was badly insulted and told it was just "critcism", I have never seen "criticism" like that in my life.

I am extremely angry, especially since the moderation action wasn't taken against my initial refute to the childrens' insults, but over a hypothetical insult that was purposely put so it could not be offensive. And I had a calmer post refuting most people's claims without resorting to dirty flaming, which I will now not get to post.

I would like to see a genuine reason why it was necessary to ban me before taking any other action, though I doubt I will recieve one. I've been to a lot of bad forums, but never seen one so ban-happy. I do not know if this moderator noticed, but it's not common or in any way respectful practice to lock people out of forums for one minor issue, even on today's control freak internet.

I will ask that the situation will please be rectified by another moderator or administrator as soon as possible. I do not believe it is in anyway productive to take it up with the moderator himself because of his rash attitude, I doubt he will change his mind if he goes to such extremes.

I wish to access the forums and post my reply instead of being forced out being made look like an incompetent musician. I ask kindly for some respect to be shown by that forum's moderators.

Thank you.

Stabshauptmann

You were made to look like an incompetant poster forget about the musician part.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=281767

The thread for those who are interested:
An OP
A handful of replys, some one liners, one helpful poster and one person asking the one liners to lay off.

Then you lost the handle. Forget everything that happened after that, you had no patience, didnt go to a mod, didnt ignore ppl, didnt use wit. You just flamed.

BTW, your above post isnt a very good complaint. Steps for complaining (though I dont recommend complaining, or that there are official steps)

Make sure you have tried the other channels first (responsible posting and pm'n relevent mod)
Link thread
Explain your problem
Quote an example

Be short, be polite, admit any mistake you may have made.

TBH, if you dont make a big deal out of this everything will be fine

Giblet

Unwarranted abuse to a fellow poster = instant ban.

The criticism was harsh but they attacked the music not the poster.

Also Feylya is not a moderator of the B/M forum so he is a normal user when posting there. Really, did you think you were going to slag off somebody saying "I'll moderate your ass" hence my comment upon banning you.

And as for respect? You'll get as much as you show. ie: None.

Giblet

Rozie wrote:

I do not know if this moderator noticed, but it's not common or in any way respectful practice to lock people out of forums for one minor issue, even on today's control freak internet.

You would have been banned quicker on some of the forums I go to, even ones that require a fee.

koneko

Tbh Rozie, you threw a fit. People gave you feedback, don't like it? It's criticism, I'm not sure what you were expecting. You went super-angry again, and started insulting people (asshats, ****, etc).

Anger management classes. Look into it.

Giblet

The funny thing is, the stuff I didn't edit is the tame stuff he posted...

The really abusive one has been deleted.

Beruthiel

Giblet wrote:

The really abusive one has been deleted.

next time, just do a soft delete giblet
you deprive the rest of us!

Giblet

Yeah I realised that afterwards

feylya

I believe the term "vagina head" was used...

Rozie

Would you care to provide what the post that got me banned

If you're going to tear into someone's work, that's fair enough, but I hardly see how it's fair that I can't tear into them. I don't recall being shown much respect, except initially from Nidge who quickly dropped it.
If you treat someone like ass, they'll react like an ass. You can't expect to make comments which *were* meant to insult the musician, and not the music in two cases and just turn around and say "Who, me?".

Again, I posted a vague description of these events on a guitar forum(including me saying the word "asshat" :P) where people normally do get down my back for certain things, and even they thought it was bull****.

Giblet, you're a moron if you couldn't tell that post wasn't meant to be real flaming. It was utterly ridiculous and if anyone could possibly find it offensive, when it was in quotation marks, purposely exagerrated, and hypothetically stated, then they're a bit of a hypocrite for thinking I shouldn't be offended by someone calling us drunken monkies who needed to learn another chord. An example of one that does insult the musician and not the music. Not that you give a **** either way.

Does it matter if I lashed out? I admit I was harsh and a little nasty, but it's understandable. It's still no reason to ban me, especially when it was over an utterly unrealistic string of insults.
How convenient you deleted it so nobody can see for themselves.

You would have been banned quicker on some of the forums I go to, even ones that require a fee.

I rather think that reflects more on the forums you go to, and as an extension your character, more than anything else. I have been to hundreds of forums, while many of them are absolute hore****, I've never seen a single example where it was common practice to ban someone over.

I have found it hard to respect the people of this board ever since the incident in the IRC channel.

Also Feylya is not a moderator of the B/M forum so he is a normal user when posting there. Really, did you think you were going to slag off somebody saying "I'll moderate your ass" hence my comment upon banning you.

How the **** could you even have taken that comment seriously? I put it in quotation marks just to make absolutely SURE you knew it wasn't of any relevance except to put it in another light.

It's okay for people to tear into me over making "undesirable" music, but it's not okay for me to... not tear into Felyla? I don't get your logic here. I suggest you at least put the post back for people to see, if that's at all possible.

Rozie

I'll post some of the messages that were posted back to me, I'll post them back here:

Tone Gecko wrote:

n a conversation I had with Steve Vai a couple months ago I asked him how he deals with music critics. He told me, and I quote

"Your music is your art. If you're happy with what you've done then that should be good enough. If someone else thinks your art sucks then f**k 'em"

Gollywog wrote:

Goddamnit Rosalie, stop being so f*cking sensitive! Thicken thine hide, pull thineself together!
Not everybody has to understand your music. If they did, what'd be the f*cking point of making it? F*ck those narrow minded right wingers that hail Merle Haggard a god amongst hicks. They can't possibly understand you. And if you express yourself through your music, how can you expct them to understand it?
F*ck them. Keep on doing what you think is musically correct.

I suggest that people take this advice to heart. I know I'm going to. They have a point. I shouldn't give a **** what a bunch of mangey handkerchiefs think.

Needles to say, I'll be sticking to that forum in future and stay well away from this one's bands forum. I posted the same mp3s there and I didn't get any such comments, or with the new ones either. People there are polite, which makes it an easier environment ofr me to be polite in.

I'll suggest that you all cop the **** on and realise blabbed ridiculous insults out of your ass doesn't constitue valid "crticism".

This hasn't given me any confidence that there's much point playing our music in Ireland, if everyone here is going to be like that. No matter how good it gets, it will still have many elements that people here didn't like because they don't open their minds to it.

Karl Hungus

In fairness to Rozie, I think the post in question was taken out of context by Giblet.

See context:

Feylya wrote:

The only difference between criticism and "**** flinging" as you put it is how you interpret it.

Rozie wrote:

Oh really? *Insert hypothetical insult here* Now how do you interpret that as constructive criticism?

Feylya wrote:

Ah! I never said "constructive"! I said criticism. Not all criticism is constructive.

I think that's basically what Rozie was saying, it's clear from Feylya's reaction that it wasn't an insult, and it would be clear it wasn't any kind of genuine insult if Giblet hadn't edited it.

However, with that said, Rozie does need to learn not to react at all to trollish insults, and that thread got way out of hand because of Rozie's inability to do so.

secret_squirrel

Rozie wrote:

Giblet, you're a moron

You really dont get the attack the post - not the poster, ethos of boards do you?

Rozie

secret_squirrel wrote:

You really dont get the attack the post - not the poster, ethos of boards do you?

Not when someone refuses to get the "not banning people over one ridiculous thing" ethos, no.

airetam_storm

The comments made were quite harsh and since you took them to heart, i can see how you are qute angry. But you must understand that some people can be quite critical so chin up, ignore it, and dont dig your own grave.

mr_angry

Frankly Rozie, you asked people their opinions on your music and they gave it to you. I admit, it wasn't pleasant, but this is the Internet, and its a well-known fact that people will offer extreme opinions. I'm assuming you knew that before posting.

On the other hand, when you replied, you attacked their person. That is very different from attacking your music, and isn't acceptable on Boards. Now I'm sorry that people derided your music (something that all of us are generally a little sensitive about), but all they did was comment on your music (not your person), and funnily enough, that was what you explicitly asked them to do.

I suggest that you apologise for attacking people with personal insults (even if you don't really mean or want to) and maybe over time you can quietly slip back into the Bands / Musicians community. Otherwise, this is going to come to a swift and unhappy end for you. (But not the rest of us.)

Good luck.

You deserved it IMO

sceptre

Rozie wrote:

Giblet, you're a moron if you couldn't tell...

I stopped reading there. If you can't show any respect to people in your complaints, even where you feel you've been wronged, my time is better spent elsewhere.

mr_angry's post just up the page is worth a read.

How long is this ban set at?

Giblet

Nah dude, I'm not a moron, I just couldn't care less about non-musicians who try to make music. Keep reaching for that rainbow dude. Peace out.

Ban is until poster learns that the "Internet" is not "Serious business"

Giblet

Oh and just for clarification, the post was reported to me. I don't care how many "'s are placed in a post. Your general demeanour seemed to suggest that maybe you were serious.

Rozie

Frankly Rozie, you asked people their opinions on your music and they gave it to you. I admit, it wasn't pleasant, but this is the Internet, and its a well-known fact that people will offer extreme opinions. I'm assuming you knew that before posting.

And why can't I offer *my* "extreme opinions", then?

And did anyone read my post? I wasn't asking for criticism on the music, at all. That's another key reason I got upset. I was asking for advice on "How to be a band", basically.
The only reference I made to the songs in specific was "As early and rubbish our current recordings are" - and people STILL lash into it?

On the other hand, when you replied, you attacked their person. That is very different from attacking your music, and isn't acceptable on Boards. Now I'm sorry that people derided your music (something that all of us are generally a little sensitive about), but all they did was comment on your music (not your person), and funnily enough, that was what you explicitly asked them to do.

Actually, two of the comments were an insult at me in general, and not just the songs posted. I won't waste my time quoting them again, just rad up.
And I didn't ask for comments on my music, I was asking what direction to take the band in, and general advice like knowing when to play. I didn't once ask "what do you think of these mp3s?" as I said myself they were "rubbish". You didn't have to rub it in.
I rather think the main reason the internet sucks right now is that people refuse to take any action against anything nasty or malicious unless it breaks THE RULES, which are generally conveniently arranged so the smuggest of assholes can do as they please.

I suggest that you apologise for attacking people with personal insults (even if you don't really mean or want to) and maybe over time you can quietly slip back into the Bands / Musicians community. Otherwise, this is going to come to a swift and unhappy end for you. (But not the rest of us.)

I will not apologise. I admitted I was harsh, and that's as much as they're getting. If they wanted respect, they should have shown it, just like you said with me. I have no reason to respect their opinions, I didn't ask for them.

Plus, how do you know I was even referencing the mp3s when I said "Stuff"? There is plenty of general writing on that page that I meant just as much.

No, I will not apologise, unless I recieve apology from everyone who was overly harsh on the music, especially the two that resorted to more personal insults. And Giblet too, especially for a comment he makes later on in this post.

Nah dude, I'm not a moron, I just couldn't care less about non-musicians who try to make music. Keep reaching for that rainbow dude. Peace out.

Always the critic, eh? I'd like to hear your music sometime. And non-musician is attacking the person, not their songs. I at least have reason to be angry at you. Not that you care about that, since you're the mod and can do as you like. Give yourself a pat on the back for that.
I supposed non-musicians trying to make music is *fact* and not just an opinion now too?

Who are you to call me a non-musician? If that URL is
If it was good, I wasn't going to mention it and accept that a good musician doesn't make a good judge, but ****** is that generic, faceless music. The vocals seriously need work. It sounds like Thom Yorke quietly raping Jimmy Page, yet oddly sends me asleep. I could have sworn I clicked on the same some twice. And why the hell are the drums so high in the mix in the "Middle Man"? I'll admit 230v was half interesting, but the droning got seriously annoying.

I don't get how you can judge me as a "Non-musician". I've found loads of random bands that weren't massively technically talented, but still showed *promise*.

But I would never judge you as a "non-musician". As much as I lash out at people for being assholes, I still have respect for people and the music they do, even if it is a little too much on the boring side. Non-musician is most certainly a personal insult. What do you *Define* as a musician, anyway? Someone who can play stuff that sounds like other stuff? No, I'm a musician. I might not be a great one, but I play an instrument, I come up with my own ideas. And most importantly, unlike you, I *bend* things.

To anyone else involved in the band, or if this is not his band, I'm sorry I don't much like your music, don't mind what I think and continue to make it the way you want and more the power to you, but I had to make a point.

I shouldn't be able to get in trouble for it, though I don't put much beyond some of the staff here, at this stage.

The sooner people stop viewing music as "Doing things the same was as being done before in an almost inaudibly different way", the better.

Sorry, I'm going to stick with Vai's philosphy rather than some moderator on an Interweb forum with a monochrome website who thinks he has it all figured.

Ban is until poster learns that the "Internet" is not "Serious business"

You must think very highly of yourself to enforce such life lessons on me.

This is his way of saying "Permanent". If you people defend a *permanent ban* over something that was *not* an insult, you need a ****ing reality check. "You deserved it, IMO", heh. I'm sure that's because you'd do the same. This board is pretty nuts. I have learnt, in general, that Irish people are pretty bad at the internet(including myself).

Oh and just for clarification, the post was reported to me. I don't care how many "'s are placed in a post. Your general demeanour seemed to suggest that maybe you were serious.

What kind of idiot would have reported that? General demeanour? Why don't you post it for everyone to see and see how much longer they believe your story then?

What Giblet did was pathetic and I'm entitled to be angry at him, mod or not. I'm sorry, but I am very touchy and tempremental, for reasons partly beyond my control, you can't possibly genuinely expect I'd go about something like this in a completely calm way - ****, I'm doing *well* considering how stupid it was.
If he was to *apologise*, I would certainly drop it, and post the post I was going to which was a much calmer explanation of why certain things in those recordings were that way, which is the only real reason I want access again to those forums, and i'm not sure it's worth it if I have to kiss someone's ass.
I am angry at him as a moderator and person for making a bad judgement call, and I should be entitled to more so than those people were entitled to tear into my music.

But he's a mod, so he doesn't have to, right?

How was I meant to "show respect" after what happened? Why am I not entitled to be angry or upset with his actions?

Nobody should have to kiss ass just to keep access to a forum.

pwd

I feel sorry for rozie.

It is mean to offhandedly slag off someone's creative endeavour, and something people do quite a bit on this site. Rozie was not bragging about the music at all.

To say well this person criticised the music, whereas this person criticised the person, really ignores the context of the remarks. One was a mean jibe, just an offhand petty putdown, the other was a tantrum as a result of obviously hurt feelings. Nobody takes offence at things said in that sort of emotional state, all someone achieves by having a tantrum is making a fool of themselves generally.

The remarks about the music that I refer to were insults, rather than criticism. I'm only referring to the obvious mean jobes here btw. Personally I would find it harder to tolerate someone slagging off something I had created and put a lot of effort into than someone slagging of me myself. [Indeed I would only show a few very trusted people anything artistic I did create for this reason.]

Karl Hungus

Rozie wrote:

Sorry, I'm going to stick with Vai's philosphy rather than some moderator on an Interweb forum with a monochrome website who thinks he has it all figured.

That's bull**** right there. If you took Vai's philosophy to heart, even one bit, you wouldn't be flying off the handle and throwing some sort of conniption fit every time someone says boo in your direction!

You know what you are? Pure troll fodder. You're a ****ing ANGST GRENADE! :mad: All someone has to do is pull your pin and watch you explode all over the thread. Giblet banned you for spurious reason, but at the same time I think you needed to be banned just so you could cool off! That thread could've gone on for ages, and anyone who wants to say something to set you off can just sit back with a bag of popcorn and watch the spectacle. Giblet was right in putting a stop to that one way or ther other. The fact of the matter is, some twat is pull your pin untill you're banned and he's just going to sit back and laugh! You know, if it was me, I wouldn't give someone like that the satisfaction. But you gotta take a hearty dose of cop on pills right now.

Nidge

Karl Hungus wrote:

You're a ****ing ANGST GRENADE! :mad:

That's a stellar phrase right there

Karl Hungus

Nidge wrote:

That's a stellar phrase right there

Why thank you!

koneko

Yeah, Karl. Super phrase and definitely spot on. Someone had to say it.

Giblet

Rozie wrote:

Who are you to call me a non-musician? If that URL is
If it was good, I wasn't going to mention it and accept that a good musician doesn't make a good judge, but ****** is that generic, faceless music. The vocals seriously need work. It sounds like Thom Yorke quietly raping Jimmy Page, yet oddly sends me asleep. I could have sworn I clicked on the same some twice. And why the hell are the drums so high in the mix in the "Middle Man"? I'll admit 230v was half interesting, but the droning got seriously annoying.

Jimmy Page, the legendary vocalist. Hey I'd be the first to admit that all that stuff on my website is **** and is noway a reflection on what I'm currently doing. Sure how much can you achieve on a BR-1180 with two mics?! And the studio recordings are rubbish to say the least, Robbie from Blink doing a 20 min job before running out the door ah well. Come see us live one day, I'll buy ya a pint.

Rozie

Jimmy Page, the legendary vocalist. Hey I'd be the first to admit that all that stuff on my website is **** and is noway a reflection on what I'm currently doing. Sure how much can you achieve on a BR-1180 with two mics?!

Exactly! The reason your music sounds dull like that is mainly down to recording issues more than anything which entirely saps the atmosphere, things are drowned out, the vocals are stuffy. And I did admit the recordings on my site were ****, too. They're not a good reflection on us as musicians, why is why it's unfair to call us "Non-musicians". You can't expect either of our recordings to be top notch. I'm sure you're much better live.
We only have one (good) Mic, but we have a Microcube which is good to record from. Unfortunately without clever positioning we can't record vocals We'll probably line in the guitar since we're using a modelling/recording amp.

And for the "Jimmy Page" comment, I was obviously referring to the guitar sections :P

Try messing with the EQ settings in goldwave, it will work wonders. You can also give it a bit more life in the Bass end by copying the entire track, raising the Bass an incredible amount, and mixing it in with the original track at low volume.

That's bull**** right there. If you took Vai's philosophy to heart, even one bit, you wouldn't be flying off the handle and throwing some sort of conniption fit every time someone says boo in your direction!

Well, it was only yesterday that people consoled me with this advice. I don't see how I could pre-empt me being given that advice, actually. And to be fair, Vai did say "**** 'em", which is pretty much what I said, just longer and more angrily

You know, if people would stop calling me "He" at every oppurtunity, it might help me be a lot *less* of an angst grenade.

Giblet

I've unbanned you. Keep it pinned.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

WhiteWashMan

Giblet wrote:

I just couldn't care less about non-musicians who try to make music. ss"

thats a pretty arrogant turn of phrase there Giblet.

thats pretty much the attitude of someone who should never be a moderator.