Rear ending crashes

el tel

landser wrote:

you would have been liable, but would have passed any such liability onto the driver of the megane, thereby not affecting your NCB and not liable to pay for any damage or injury arising out of you rear ending of the car in front. this principle is the same under English, Scottish or Irish law

Landser, I agree with what you are saying regards the precise legal principle
however I was of the understanding that in the concertina-shunts the most practical and usual way the insurance companies can deal with it is to treat it as a knock-for-knock basis with eash person paying for the one in front.

I do of course stand corrected there!

We need the opinion of an insurer,,,

BrianD3

Now stop talking complete bollix.. How can being rear ended while stopped equate to you being a bad driver? ffs...

Charming. Ever hear of the concept of defensive driving? I guess not. FYI, its taking account of the fact that other road users are crap and make mistakes.

If you slam on your brakes while being tailgated and have the attitude that "sure it'll be his fault if he rear ends me" that would be the opposite to defensive driving. IME people who drive like this are usually crap drivers anyway and will have plenty of crashes that are their own fault as well as plenty of crashes that are someone else's fault.

landser

el tel wrote:

Landser, I agree with what you are saying regards the precise legal principle
however I was of the understanding that in the concertina-shunts the most practical and usual way the insurance companies can deal with it is to treat it as a knock-for-knock basis with eash person paying for the one in front.

I do of course stand corrected there!

We need the opinion of an insurer,,,

i'm afraid i'm correct, the insurers can't settle the claims as they wish, as each of the parties has a right of action against the others. Under the subrogation rule if the company wanted to pay out, they can, but they couldn't couldn't use any such settlement to effect your ncb or agree any frim sharing arrangement with another insurer as regards liability as that could effect any claim you might bring thereafter. so what i said above holds true.

prospect

el tel wrote:

Landser, I agree with what you are saying regards the precise legal principle
however I was of the understanding that in the concertina-shunts the most practical and usual way the insurance companies can deal with it is to treat it as a knock-for-knock basis with eash person paying for the one in front.

I do of course stand corrected there!

We need the opinion of an insurer,,,

Yep,
I was rear ended, (I was completely stopped, for several seconds, on the N7 at the lights at Kill with my handBRAKE on, when hit), and I was pushed forward into the car infront. The person who hit me (in this particular case), was financially liable for damage to both my car, and the car in front.

Landser can probably confirm this, or tell me its BS:
I think I paid for the car I hit, but my insurance then claims this cost from the guy who hit me. He then pays for my car, and also the cost I incured having hit the car infornt of me. Then I think the insurance ignores this 'temporary' claim with regard to NCB and accident history.

css

BrianD3 wrote:

Charming. Ever hear of the concept of defensive driving? I guess not. FYI, its taking account of the fact that other road users are crap and make mistakes.

If you slam on your brakes while being tailgated and have the attitude that "sure it'll be his fault if he rear ends me" that would be the opposite to defensive driving. IME people who drive like this are usually crap drivers anyway and will have plenty of crashes that are their own fault as well as plenty of crashes that are someone else's fault.

What has defensive driving got to do with being stopped at a traffic lights or junction and some dipstick running into the back of you because they weren't paying attention. You are a completely innocent victim in this case. There's absolutely nothing you could do. I'm not talking about slow moving traffic here. I know two people one of who has had this happen to them twice. I don't go judging them as crap drivers because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time though, that's what you are doing though. Try be more specific will you..

Chalk

alias no.9 wrote:

I usually leave about 1 to 2 carlengths distance between me and the car in front

2 car gap when stopped?
ill take that with my bus, thanks

landser

prospect wrote:

Yep,
I was rear ended, (I was completely stopped, for several seconds, on the N7 at the lights at Kill with my handBRAKE on, when hit), and I was pushed forward into the car infront. The person who hit me (in this particular case), was financially liable for damage to both my car, and the car in front.

Landser can probably confirm this, or tell me its BS:
I think I paid for the car I hit, but my insurance then claims this cost from the guy who hit me. He then pays for my car, and also the cost I incured having hit the car infornt of me. Then I think the insurance ignores this 'temporary' claim with regard to NCB and accident history.

not sure re the temporary claim part. usually the offending vehicle will pay out for all up front. if liability is in issue then no money will be paid out and the matter will have to go to court or be sorted by negotiation, in the meantime you would lose you ncb even if you are completely faultless.

BrianD3

css wrote:

What has defensive driving got to do with being stopped at a traffic lights or junction and some dipstick running into the back of you because they weren't paying attention. You are a completely innocent victim in this case. There's absolutely nothing you could do. I'm not talking about slow moving traffic here. I know two people one of who has had this happen to them twice. I don't go judging them as crap drivers because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time though, that's what you are doing though. Try be more specific will you..

Well if you read back over the thread I never said that if you are rear ended that that automatically means you're a crap driver. Far from it, of course there are loads of victims of rear endings who are 100% innocent and did nothing that contributed to the crash. Eg someone stopped at a traffic lights for 5 minutes who gets hit by some eejit tuning his radio.

Trampas

prospect wrote:

What if the vehicle in front had no working breaklights?

I have been behing two vehicles in the last 6 months(ish) that had no break lights. An absoloute disgrace.

I work in an insurance company and if you hit a car in front we will pay straight away as you should be far enough back to stop in time.

The longer it goes on the more it costs.

Try it sometime and crash into the rear of someone and see how far you go to prove it was the other persons fault

prospect

Trampas wrote:

I work in an insurance company and if you hit a car in front we will pay straight away as you should be far enough back to stop in time.

The longer it goes on the more it costs.

Try it sometime and crash into the rear of someone and see how far you go to prove it was the other persons fault

I was only asking genuine question, sheesh :rolleyes:

landser

Trampas wrote:

I work in an insurance company and if you hit a car in front we will pay straight away as you should be far enough back to stop in time.

The longer it goes on the more it costs.

Try it sometime and crash into the rear of someone and see how far you go to prove it was the other persons fault

usually, yes, always, no. i like your company though... they don't even investigate claims!

Alun

I too leave a 'decent' gap between me and the car in front when stopped, I just think that 1-2 car lengths is way over the top, that's all.

ambro25

landser wrote:

usually, yes, always, no. i like your company though... they don't even investigate claims!

LOL

landser - 15 :Trampas - love

Alun wrote:

I too leave a 'decent' gap between me and the car in front when stopped, I just think that 1-2 car lengths is way over the top, that's all.

You cannot be so specific, Alun. With reference to the 'incident' I experienced and recounted earlier in the thread, and further posts, the 'decent' gap you leave will vary depending on a load of variables:weather (stopping distance change between dry & wet conditions you know, even with ABS), visibility (yours when stopped and that of others), time of day (people react slower at night in addition to reduced visibility), etc, etc.

For instance -and again after the little 'wet cobbles incident' of some years back- I'd never leave less than a car to a car-and-a-half's length in yesterday's and today's weather in good ole Dub'.

If some eejit (look Mam, I'm learning Irish ) decides to jump into that space, then I'll leave another car/car-&-half, be cursed by drivers behind me - but I'll remain serene, and hopeful that they may take example. One can dream :rolleyes:

thatkindofgirl

I'm the same. 8 months on I'm still suffering with my whiplash injuries from being rear-ended.

I wouldn't inflict that on anyone if I can help it at all.

I'm one of those drivers who leave the big spaces, so if some bugger hits me, I probably won't hit anyone else. I'm also aware that my car has the safety rating of a aluminium tin, so I really don't want to have an engine ending up in my lap, or shattered leg bones.

That said, I almost got creamed yesterday by some CEO-type on his phone in a 05 Merc. I don't know why people think tailgating a micra will make it go faster.

That, and if somebody needs to change lanes, they can! People are soo protective of that extra half a second it would cost them to let someone in... it's silly.

BrianD

Rodney Trotter wrote:

Andip, please think before posting such garbage. Brake lights are only advisory? Yeah , right.

As regards "settling" accidents? In an Insurance company? Settling does not mean deciding right and wrong. It's a contest where there is usually a loser and a winner.

If someone deliberately brakes, to cause and accident, they are liable. Anything else is an Insurance cop-out.

I think andip makes perfect sense. After all you are supposed to be driving in a manner that anticipates a sudden or emergency stop by a vehicle in front of you. You should have it factored in already. Now if you believe that the motorist in front was behaving in a malicious or aggressive manner and deliberately you might have some hope of a 'get out' clause if you could possibly prove it. If a chap stands on the breaks for no good reason then it is the same as if he did it to avoid a running child - your reaction should be the same. The onus is on you to anticipate this.

css

BrianD3 wrote:

I was just pointing out that bad drivers tend to be involved in more rear ending crashes, even ones where the insurance says that they are not at fault. So next time someone tells you that they've been rear ended 5 times in the last year maybe think twice about getting into the car with them as they are probably just as rubbish a driver as the 5 drivers that ran into them.

What is this meant to mean Brian so? I am reading the thread.... I know someone who was hit twice from behind while they were stopped... does that make them a rubbish driver?? According to your statement they are just as bad as the eejit that hit them.. Some people are just unlucky that's all.. have a good weekend..

css

BrianD wrote:

I think andip makes perfect sense. After all you are supposed to be driving in a manner that anticipates a sudden or emergency stop by a vehicle in front of you. You should have it factored in already. Now if you believe that the motorist in front was behaving in a malicious or aggressive manner and deliberately you might have some hope of a 'get out' clause if you could possibly prove it. If a chap stands on the breaks for no good reason then it is the same as if he did it to avoid a running child - your reaction should be the same. The onus is on you to anticipate this.

I agree 100%, and don't rely on brake lights either... but it does come back to joining the list of bad irish driver habits.. another is driving like a complete tosser in fog with 20m visibility.. :eek:

el tel

Just think, this weekend there'll be 100's of rear-shunts all over Ireland but hopefully not to any of us, we are well awares now!

Now, take me to the M1, I have a 'fast lane' to sit in for 50 miles