eircom wins the court case

damien

Just heard from a source. More info on the way.

Trampas

Is this against Smart telecom if not what case is it??

damien

I believe it to be the LLU one against ComReg.

Sponge Bob

Bugger That

paulm17781

That's not good. This probably means they wont have to provide LLU now

kasintahan

paulm17781 wrote:

That's not good. This probably means they wont have to provide LLU now

Is it not against EU directives (?) to reject LLU requests?

Sponge Bob

they will have to provide LLU but they need not provide an automated process which would make it easy and straightforward.

viking

Eircom did not reject LLU requests, they rejected making the changes that OLO's requested in order to have a proper functioning LLU ordering system.

Sponge Bob

Eircom rejected the timetable for coming up with a proposal(s) and attending a meeting , that was 6 months ago. Of course this whole glacial LLU process started in 1999 but never mind that we are working at Comreg speed here.

The court found for Eircom purely on the issue of the notice period for that one particular meeting in early Feb and the notice Eircom got to attend that particular meeting (but the court hopefully also said that 6 months was reasonable so that meeting is next tuesday )

Cuauhtemoc

they will have to provide LLU but they need not provide an automated process which would make it easy and straightforward.

So to clarify - LLU will never be an automated process and will always happen at a snails pace?
How could the courts justify that?
It just makes competition from smart and others that much more difficult.

Great start to the weekend!

Praetorian

I'm only speculating, but ComReg probably were not well prepared in court and Eircom's lawyers probably ran rings around them.

paulm17781

kasintahan wrote:

Is it not against EU directives (?) to reject LLU requests?

I know, I was joking. Eircom just seem to delay LLU as much as possible and now they have no reason hurry up.

damien

Well from what Spongebob heard it seems like they ruled ComReg didn't give eircom enough time which isn't too harmful. What is harmful is that to figure this out LLU automation has been put back almost 7 months. Fantastic.

damien

Praetorian wrote:

I'm only speculating, but ComReg probably were not well prepared in court and Eircom's lawyers probably ran rings around them.

I'd disagree, they had a very good legal team and they were very well prepared. I think though that this may have been the first time they went to Court whereas eircom are well experienced with the Courts.

What I do hope is that they are not discouraged about going to the Court to stand up for their decisions and that they will be happy to see eircom or Vodafone or whoever at the four goldmines again and again to defend the rights of the consumer and small business.

damien

http://www.enn.ie/frontpage/news-9627914.html

ALTO, the association representing alternative operators in the Irish communications market, has called for a streamlined process of appeals of decisions by the communications regulator ComReg. The call came in the wake of a High Court finding on Friday, following appeal proceedings by Eircom, that ComReg cannot issue enforcement decisions until after appeals have been heard by the Regulatory Appeals Panel. "This court action only relates to a narrow legal argument; however the consequence of today's decision is that Eircom can appeal every decision in order to cause delays," explained ALTO chairman Tom Hickey. "The Minister for Communications must fix this loophole by introducing a streamlined means for the hearing of appeals by the Appeals Panel."

In related news, Eircom has welcomed the decision of the High Court on Friday which it says affirms its right to appeal decisions made by ComReg. David McRedmond, commercial director of Eircom said, "Eircom has been thoroughly vindicated by today's judgement. All we seek is good and fair regulation, so that consumers can benefit from a strong and truly competitive telecoms market. The right of appeal to an independent appeals panel is imperative, and we believe this right has been secured today."

Mr_Man

if we don't like what the Appeals panel say then its back to the four courts for further delays to stifle competition.

What a farce, if the DCMNR really think that the EAP will make a blind bit of difference when it comes to speeding up the process they are badly mistaken. It is, as Comreg said at the time, another layer of uncertainty in the process. This place is so screwed up........

M.

damien

Doesn't the appeals panel have some kind of enforcement? Same as going to the high court I thought?

In regards to speed though. Eircom appealed this in February and a preliminary hearing was meant to happen on July 27th.

*puts his hand to his hear*
I think the turtle just sped past this lot.

damien

Right to appeal ComReg directions won by Eircom
http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/business/Full_Story/did-sgm2BKOePRlmUsglO-LCk0lQvU.asp

Eircom has won a High Court challenge to the procedure adopted by the Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg) in seeking to enforce directions aimed at advancing "local loop unbundling", the process of opening the last mile of Eircom's telephone network to rival firms.

Mr Justice Liam McKechnie yesterday held that ComReg, in requiring Eircom to comply by February 14th last with two directions from ComReg concerning local loop unbundling, had deprived Eircom of its rights of appeal.

He found ComReg was not entitled to limit Eircom's right of appeal, including its right to seek suspension of implementation of the directions complained of pending the appeal's outcome. The judge noted that Minister for Communications Noel Dempsey had said he would not set up an appeal panel because of the proceedings. It was difficult to see why that approach was taken, he said.

He awarded costs of the proceedings to Eircom but placed a stay on that costs order in the event of an appeal.

ComReg was established to ensure compliance with obligations regarding the supply of, and access to, telecommunications services.

In June 2004 ComReg designated Eircom as having significant market power in the market for LLU. In November 2004 ComReg drafted a Market Requirements Document (MRD) setting out requirements of other companies in relation to LLU, which envisaged those requirements would be made available by February 2005.

Eircom argued that the MRD did not adequately define the requirements being requested. ComReg did not accept it was appropriate for Eircom to analyse the MRD and an agreement was not reached at meetings between Eircom and ComReg.

On January 18th ComReg issued a decision notice (D/105), which included two directions to Eircom regarding LLU to be adhered to by February 18th.

In its High Court proceedings, Eircom claimed the requirement to adhere to those directions by February 18th infringed its right to appeal those directions within a 28-day period and to seek a suspension of those directions pending that appeal.

Mr Justice McKechnie said that as part of the appeal process, Eircom was entitled to apply to have the decisions suspended until its appeal was determined by an appeal panel. The 28-day period within which to appeal was due to expire on February 14th. ComReg had said that Eircom must comply with its two directions on February 1st and February 14th. On February 2nd it issued an enforcement notice regarding the first direction and issued a second enforcement notice on February 14th.

In imposing those time limits in circumstances where Eircom had a right to appeal and where it was also entitled to seek a suspension of the January 18th, 2005 decision pending that appeal, ComReg had deprived Eircom of its right to appeal and had acted unlawfully, the judge held.

Sponge Bob

essentially the high court defined "immediate" in Comreg terms as 28 days in real life.

thereafter the right to appeal lapses and immediate can be what it sez on the can

beller b

I'll be sticking with BT for the foreseeable future so!!

clearz

DavidMcRedmond wrote:

All we seek is good and fair regulation, so that consumers can benefit from a strong and truly competitive telecoms market.

I think im gonna puke...

junglequestions

I just did!

Eircon are getting out of control and so are Comwreck. Back handers gallore for some fatbody in comwreck i wrecken! Its total BS and something has to be done...

beller b

Has ther been any response from ireland offline?

damien

I've heard nothing. Lazy shower are probably off sunning themselves in that villa they bought for themselves at the last cash drive. Voluntary group, hah!

Cork

This is a hollow victory for Eircom. It is unfortunate that the High Court made this decision.

But LLU will come & Eircom will face more competition.


It is only a metter of time.

Mr_Man

My understanding, and I stand to be corrected on this, is that if anyone is unhappy with the outcome of the ECAP they still have the right to take the issue to the courts. This was the main reason why Comreg were so oppoosed to the establishment of the body in the first place.

As I noted earlier this is a dire situation, its only realistic outcome is to allow a decision to be dragged out for a minimum of another six months, a lifetime in the real telco world. If the DCMNR really think that any party who don't get the result they want from ECAP won't appeal it to the courts they are living on another planet.

If you look at it from Eircom's viewpoint this is great news, the cost of taking the appeal to the courts, even if they lose is going to be far less than the benefit of sitifling competition for this extended period. And given the situation of some of its competitors it could even see them go out of business in the meantime.

Total BS and another example of the wrong way to regulate a market.

M.

zuma

Could this decision spell the end for Smart Broadband???

lucernarian

That was a pretty dissapointing result for everyone who wants a good broadband service. I'm a bit confused about what I've read so far but I see a glimmer of hope in that the meeting that was supposed to happen 7 months ago will now actually take place.

Originally posted by zuma
Could this decision spell the end for Smart Broadband???

It shouldn't affect Smart to that extent unless they are financially very insecure. From what I understand, the situation won't deteriorate for Smart but it will not get better for some time now. Correct me if im wrong?

Legitimate

Right to appeal ComReg directions won by Eircom
Mary Carolan



Eircom has won a High Court challenge to the procedure adopted by the Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg) in seeking to enforce directions aimed at advancing "local loop unbundling", the process of opening the last mile of Eircom's telephone network to rival firms.

Mr Justice Liam McKechnie yesterday held that ComReg, in requiring Eircom to comply by February 14th last with two directions from ComReg concerning local loop unbundling, had deprived Eircom of its rights of appeal.

He found ComReg was not entitled to limit Eircom's right of appeal, including its right to seek suspension of implementation of the directions complained of pending the appeal's outcome. The judge noted that Minister for Communications Noel Dempsey had said he would not set up an appeal panel because of the proceedings. It was difficult to see why that approach was taken, he said.

He awarded costs of the proceedings to Eircom but placed a stay on that costs order in the event of an appeal.

ComReg was established to ensure compliance with obligations regarding the supply of, and access to, telecommunications services.

In June 2004 ComReg designated Eircom as having significant market power in the market for LLU. In November 2004 ComReg drafted a Market Requirements Document (MRD) setting out requirements of other companies in relation to LLU, which envisaged those requirements would be made available by February 2005.

Eircom argued that the MRD did not adequately define the requirements being requested. ComReg did not accept it was appropriate for Eircom to analyse the MRD and an agreement was not reached at meetings between Eircom and ComReg.

On January 18th ComReg issued a decision notice (D/105), which included two directions to Eircom regarding LLU to be adhered to by February 18th.

In its High Court proceedings, Eircom claimed the requirement to adhere to those directions by February 18th infringed its right to appeal those directions within a 28-day period and to seek a suspension of those directions pending that appeal.

Mr Justice McKechnie said that as part of the appeal process, Eircom was entitled to apply to have the decisions suspended until its appeal was determined by an appeal panel. The 28-day period within which to appeal was due to expire on February 14th. ComReg had said that Eircom must comply with its two directions on February 1st and February 14th. On February 2nd it issued an enforcement notice regarding the first direction and issued a second enforcement notice on February 14th.

In imposing those time limits in circumstances where Eircom had a right to appeal and where it was also entitled to seek a suspension of the January 18th, 2005 decision pending that appeal, ComReg had deprived Eircom of its right to appeal and had acted unlawfully, the judge held.

eircomtribunal

Mr_Man wrote:

My understanding, and I stand to be corrected on this, is that if anyone is unhappy with the outcome of the ECAP they still have the right to take the issue to the courts. This was the main reason why Comreg were so oppoosed to the establishment of the body in the first place.

Who is in the know about this?
If this was the case that the ECAP decision would still not stand, it would be ridiculous.
The page on the ECAP website does not say.
P.

Mr_Man

Having looked through the legislation it is not clear whether the outcome of an appeal can be taken to the courts. However the following comment from a recent SBP article on the regulators would suggest that the decision of the ECAP is not final:

Legal entanglements

Although the European Commission backed ComReg's joint dominance ruling, O2 and Vodafone have taken the issue to the National Appeals Panel. If the panel finds in favour of the regulator, it is likely that mobile giants will opt to string out the issue through the courts.

M