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ADSL v. Cable?

el_gaucho

hi,
i currently have EsatBT broadband, using a router to share the connection between two laptops and a PC. we're thinking of switching to ntl but i read on the wesite that if want multiple connections you need a modem for each computer, at an extra charge of course. this wouldn't suit us as we would like to use the existing router setup.

does anyone know if its possible to simply use the router with the ntl modem? (the modem is DSL/Cable). i have also heard that cable broadband is less reliable and more likely to slow down with multiple users. is this correct?
i have emailed these queries to ntl, but another opinion would be great!
cheers,
el_gaucho

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chorus techy

Need extra modems per computer? Complete bull. So long as you have a hub that can take an ethernet connection from a modem such as an ntl cable modem, and can then have ethernet ports for each computer, you only one modem. Of course, if you have say, the 1mb package then you will have the 1mb divided between all the computers you have on the network that want to use the internet.

As for cable broadband, its fairly reliable but ntl's contention ratio is quite good compared to DSL contention (17:1 with NTL compared to 40:1 with Eircom DSL), and because most roads have a relatively low takeup of cable broadband, it shouldn't really be a problem.

el_gaucho

chorus techy wrote:

Need extra modems per computer? Complete bull. So long as you have a hub that can take an ethernet connection from a modem such as an ntl cable modem, and can then have ethernet ports for each computer, you only one modem. Of course, if you have say, the 1mb package then you will have the 1mb divided between all the computers you have on the network that want to use the internet.

As for cable broadband, its fairly reliable but ntl's contention ratio is quite good compared to DSL contention (17:1 with NTL compared to 40:1 with Eircom DSL), and because most roads have a relatively low takeup of cable broadband, it shouldn't really be a problem.

thanks chorus,
well i figured it was bull too, but thats what it says on the website and thats what the installation guy told my friend when he had it installed last week...probably trying to squeeze more money out of people....we already have a 1mb and i would say its fast enough as we're rarely all on together.
as regards the ethernet ports, we have the laptops on wireless and im on the PC with an ethernet card. (more reliable here than wireless)

since i already have ntl cable tv, do you know if i could plug the modem into one of the tv points in the bedroom?

el_gaucho

Marcopolo85

chorus techy wrote:

because most roads have a relatively low takeup of cable broadband, it shouldn't really be a problem.

Chorus Techy - do you know what NTL's penetration levels actually are? That's a very fairly bold statement to be making while advising someone which broadband product to choose!

Jumpy

chorus techy wrote:

Need extra modems per computer? Complete bull. So long as you have a hub that can take an ethernet connection from a modem such as an ntl cable modem, and can then have ethernet ports for each computer, you only one modem. Of course, if you have say, the 1mb package then you will have the 1mb divided between all the computers you have on the network that want to use the internet.

As for cable broadband, its fairly reliable but ntl's contention ratio is quite good compared to DSL contention (17:1 with NTL compared to 40:1 with Eircom DSL), and because most roads have a relatively low takeup of cable broadband, it shouldn't really be a problem.

Not sure a hub would do it.

I used to have powernet a long time ago and it only allocated a single IP address. I asked about this and apparently its standard procedure for a home connection. Unless there is a specific range given out instead of a single IP You would need a router.

chorus techy

Sorry should have said router, not hub.

And no, Marco I don't know ntl's penetration ratios, perhaps you do and would like to tell us, however Eircom have much higher contention ratios than ntl and as eircon would have a lot more modems running off a lot fewer exchanges than ntl would (yes I know ntl don't use exchanges), then cable in theory would be less subject to a lot of users. I suppose I am making a lot of assumptions but I am basing it mostly on personal experience and the hell I've gone through with DSL connections and poor latency, contention, connections etc.

causal

Marcopolo85 wrote:

chorus techy wrote:

As for cable broadband, its fairly reliable but ntl's contention ratio is quite good compared to DSL contention (17:1 with NTL compared to 40:1 with Eircom DSL), and because most roads have a relatively low takeup of cable broadband, it shouldn't really be a problem.

Chorus Techy - do you know what NTL's penetration levels actually are? That's a very fairly bold statement to be making while advising someone which broadband product to choose!

NTL's take up is ~11%, according to this enn article:

To date NTL Ireland has signed up 11,000 customers to its cable broadband service with a further 100,000 homes marketable for broadband in its franchise areas of Dublin, Galway and Waterford.

causal

Your existing router, if it has the DSL modem builtin, won't work with NTL. Instead you need to get one of the routers from the following page:

http://www.dsl-warehouse.ie/Category.asp?catid=2&l=1&cnL1=NTL/Telewest&PcatIDL1=2

since i already have ntl cable tv, do you know if i could plug the modem into one of the tv points in the bedroom?

Yes, they will be able to install it at any NTL TV point in your house and if you don't have a point where you want it they will install one for free.

i have also heard that cable broadband is less reliable and more likely to slow down with multiple users. is this correct?

Complete BS, only people who don't understand BB technology say things like that. Both DSL and cable share their bandwidth amongst multiple users, they just do it in slightly different ways. As long as the ISP sets reasonable contention ratios, the end user should never notice it.

In fact technically speaking, cable is a much better technology then DSL and is capable of much higher speeds .

Personally I have had DSL in the past (2m) and NTL now (3m) and NTL is far more stable and I get much higher speeds. In the past my DSL would often go down, but my NTL has never gone down, touch wood.

BTW if you live in D15, don't get NTL, they are having serious problems in that area.

NTL's take up is ~11%

This is an excellent uptake rate, right up there with the best in Europe. Much better then Eircom and it shows Eircoms claims of there being no interest in BB to be a complete lie.

Marcopolo85

chorus techy wrote:

Sorry should have said router, not hub.

And no, Marco I don't know ntl's penetration ratios, perhaps you do and would like to tell us, however Eircom have much higher contention ratios than ntl and as eircon would have a lot more modems running off a lot fewer exchanges than ntl would (yes I know ntl don't use exchanges), then cable in theory would be less subject to a lot of users. I suppose I am making a lot of assumptions but I am basing it mostly on personal experience and the hell I've gone through with DSL connections and poor latency, contention, connections etc.

Can't tell you either chorus techy, but I'm not advising someone.......

chorus techy

Marcopolo85 wrote:

Can't tell you either chorus techy, but I'm not advising someone.......

Point taken - apologies for any bad advice!

Marcopolo85

chorus techy wrote:

Point taken - apologies for any bad advice!

No probs!

el_gaucho

lads,
thanks for the advice.
i spoke to ntl and they told me that it i can connect a router to the cable modem if i wish, however....

Unfortunately, ntl: are only able to offer detailed technical support on systems containing one standalone PC or Macintosh that is connected DIRECTLY TO THE MODEM. We are therefore unable to support Local area Networks or any other extension of the single computer system in using our services. Using a router usually involves specifying IP addresses on both the router and each PC connected to it. As ntl do not supply routers we cannot offer support for them (or any other 3rd party hardware).

so it is their polocy to tell customers that if they need more than one connection they need to get another modem. and the cost? well, €25 for one, €50 for two! ie, buy two pay twice the price ;-) i dont think so!

cal29

Its just that they wont help you with problems with your router or your wireless network why would they it has nothing to do with them.

paulm17781

el_gaucho wrote:

so it is their polocy to tell customers that if they need more than one connection they need to get another modem. and the cost? well, €25 for one, €50 for two! ie, buy two pay twice the price ;-) i dont think so!

Just buy a router with a built in switch. You do NOT need more than 1 modem.

Just buy one of the routers that I linked to in my post above.

They are very easy to setup and will work no problem. If you have any problems just ask in here, someone will help you.

BTW that NTL policy isn't trying to force you to get two connections, they specifically say in the contract that you are allowed to connect upto three computers. They simply won't give you technical support in setting up the router, simply because they don't supply the router and different routers are setup in different ways, so it would be very hard for them to tell you how to setup all types router.

It is like if you buy a Ford car in the morning and then go to an audio visual shop and get them to fit a car stereo system. You wouldn't expect Ford to know anything about or support that car stereo system, would you?

el_gaucho

lads,
just to clear up a couple of things...

i never meant to say that ntl should offer tech support for routers i was just quoting from the email they sent me.

a couple of weeks back a friend of mine had the ntl package installed.he asked the install guy...
"what do we need to do to connect two PCs?"
the answer was...
"you must get a second modem and pay extra, that is the only way"

i think we have established on this thread that that's blatently untrue. while it's hardly forcing him to get a second modem it is surely an attempt to get people who dont know any better to spend more money than they need to. you might call it being a good salesman, i call it bad customer service.
i'd certainly be pissed off if i went and got a second connection at twice the price based on that "advice".

anyway i'll tell yer man to get a router and look here for tech support! as for myself, i'll probably stick with esatBT and suffer their terrible customer service!

thanks for the advice,
el_gaucho

causal

That's not the only BS configuration they suggest, check out this extract from the NTL Technical FAQ

Will I be able to use the service with all PCs connected to my home local LAN?

The cable modem system will only allocate 1 IP address to a PC. If you wish to connect a LAN then some kind of Network Address Translation will be required. This will involve two network cards in the PC connected to the cable modem and software to do this. (Linux and Windows both have free software to do this). Please note that ntl do not support this multi-computers environment.

Alternatively, you may choose to have more than one cable modem installed. These will be charged individually.

Do ntl really think that anyone in their right mind would want either of the above options over a router :rolleyes:
Disappointing. They don't even mention the word 'router'

causal