CL2QR2L Shelbourne FC -v- Steaua Bucharest (Agg 0:0)

Slash/ED

You talk about Ajax being able to invest millions into their youth academy and of course that's fine, I'm not saying we need to match the top youth academys facilities wise. That's out of reach for now at least, it's the mentality I'm talking about. The top youth teams abroad produce players to be skillfull players capable of playing at a higher level who emerge better than when they entered the system. Here, the youth teams produce players to win youth cups and tournaments. There is no room for mistakes, there is no focus on making players tactically aware (Hence, even the national team, simply not being capable of playing anything other than 4-4-2 as Kerr has found out, which is a formation played by few to no top teams in Europe) and there is no attempt to make players better as a long term view. It's all about short term, winning some U12s cup, and to do that they focus mainly on fitness and the like.

As a result, the naturally talented players will succed but the rest will be technically far behind their continental equivilents, even if they started off with the same or more natural ability. I remember when I was playing U14s football, any player with a bit of skill would be criticised with shouts of "stop fannying about" and the like, instead of encouraging their ability even though it'll lead to alot of mistakes at that age. The whole mentality is wrong at that level, a few exceptional exceptions don't change that or mean it can't be improved on. Underage football is about producing players not trophys.

thejollyrodger

Excellent point Slash/ED. I concur. The emphasis on training is all wrong.

The milk cup might be a great competition but at the end of the day it’s meaningless. Even if a kid wins it each year for 5 years, it proves absolutely nothing at senior level. If a kid can play 4-3-3, 3-5-2 etc then they are far more beneficial to a manger than a trophy.

Football is a sport which is built on individual skill. It’s actually all about skill except that weaker teams try to make up for the lack of skill with workman like qualities, like running around the pitch all day, solid defending and discipline. There is nothing wrong with a workman like performance as they say but it will never get you very far in competitions.

Because of the way Ireland play we always create lots and lots of chances at international level, as many as a club would. Better technical players would put all those chances away, we rarely do.

As for Shels, if we had better technical players who were more comfortable on the ball we could keep the ball for longer and take a lot of the pressure off the team.

Bateman

Slash/ED wrote:

As a result, the naturally talented players will succed

I think the danger is the opposite. The hatchet men will succeed and the naturally talented get kicked off the pitch at junior level, get no protection from referees, and the hatchet men are seen to be more useful and thus it is they who go on to achieve bigger things while the skilful players drift away from the game before they can see if they're good enough to make it at senior level or not.

KdjaCL

thejollyrodger wrote:

Football is a sport which is built on individual skill. It’s actually all about skill except that weaker teams try to make up for the lack of skill with workman like qualities, like running around the pitch all day, solid defending and discipline. There is nothing wrong with a workman like performance as they say but it will never get you very far in competitions.

Would have gotten you into the next round.......



kdjac

thejollyrodger

Yes i think so, if we had a better footballing side we would be able to football our way to the 3rd round. Steaua were nearly as bad at the back as we are.

Being able to hold the ball for long periods of time is a massive difference, our national side used to be hit and hope but they can string 20+ passes easily together and the difference is huge. The entire team is not running around and we are in control plus it they are far more likely to be able to create more chances and score.

KdjaCL

Football is a sport which is built on individual skill. It’s actually all about skill except that weaker teams try to make up for the lack of skill with workman like qualities, like running around the pitch all day, solid defending and discipline. There is nothing wrong with a workman like performance as they say but it will never get you very far in competitions.

Liverpool, Chelsea, Porto, Ac Milan......


kdjac

thejollyrodger

Real Madrid - they have won it more times than anyone else. Brasil and the world cup likewise.

And all those clubs you named are good footballing sides, im on about the bolton wanderers of this world

arbeitsscheuer

How bout Greece? They even had a bolton player in their team, Stelios Giannakopoulos. And they won Euro2004. Good enough for ya? :rolleyes:

No? Ok, how bout Denmark circa 1992. Or even that German team from 1990. Or 1996 for that matter.

Workman-like attitude is crucial. It is necessary. It can mean the difference between victory and humiliation.

Slash/ED

Nobodys saying you don't have to work. All those teams, bar perhaps Greece, had alot of quality too.

Töpher

If you don't have a hard working team, you don't have a team, simple as.

You said hard working solid defending is what they do because they don't have skill? Defending well is probably one of the best skills in football!

Big Ears

Einst&#252 wrote: »

If you don't have a hard working team, you don't have a team, simple as.

You said hard working solid defending is what they do because they don't have skill? Defending well is probably one of the best skills in football!

So many people forget/don't realize defending is an art form , just like those tricks Ronaldinho does . Seitereidis Man marked a lot of great players in the Euro's , is that not to be considered quality .

Its not just the tricks and attacking technique that is often neglected at a young age , so is a lot of the knowledge that a defender needs when taking on higher class of opposition .

At my club there is a huge enficious(sp?) on technique and ballwork . (both at U16 and Youths level) . Evening drills we use to build up conditioning and recuperation rates often involve ballwork . We are taught all kinds of different tricks and told to try them all we want in training , infact sometimes we are given out to for not using them in appropriate situations .

This change from the usual stuff most of us would have done at schoolboy level came at U14 level , when our new coached remarked that we should have been learning these things when we were 6 and 7 years old .

Unfortunately I still beleive there is a problem at most clubs , when talking with someone from another team at school (after we had beaten them 7-0) , they thought we were taking it we were taking it easy because of how much we passed the ball around and he was shocked to find out thats how we naturally play . Their tactics consisted of just hoof it long and run after it .

So what we need is more clubs taking a technique based approach , which you can use without dropping a work-man like and dogged approach . The Onus(sp?) is on the FAI to educate clubs because after all its clubs that educate players and the only reason Holland has so great technical players is because they have big clubs who employ a good grassroots philosophy .

Ajax and PSV have great academys and Feynoord's isn't half bad either . But we don't have clubs of that magnitude here so we are going to have to take a different approach . Maybe making sure people have some sort of FAI recognized qualifications before being able to coach at any level and even more importantly making sure those qualifications are good ones that teach all about technique .

KdjaCL

^what he said




kdjac