Is it really uncool to support Fianna Fail

greg-h

No no no look at what we have done for eire all the jobs the quality of life you enjoy is due to fianna fail we made this county and thhats why were the best good god man look what happens when fiana gale get into goverment the thing goes belly up dev le mass lynch hauhy renolds and an taoiseach berty ahern. Look at all the great men we have look at the rest john bruton fitzgearld my god that man could not have a pi**up in a pup what good has fianna gale done for us the citzens of eire increased taxation increased unemployment did not make huge steps in the peace process furthermore we one big family and we look after each other and just because someone f**ks up we dont have the knives out hell did you ever ask why for the best part of 20 years we have been eire's formost pollotical party.
We are the oldest the biggest the best organasied and best fiananced AND BY A LONG SHOT THE BEST OF THE BEST WE HAVE THE RIGHT STUFF.

President4Life

I would prefer to vote PD but they are not standing in my constituency. So I will have to vote FF as I fear the Opposition will be too soft on immigration. Immigration and the economy will determine my vote.

rsynnott

"Oh, no, the immigrants are going to eat us!!!"

Honestly, there are far more important things.

President4Life

rsynnott wrote:

"Oh, no, the immigrants are going to eat us!!!"

Honestly, there are far more important things.

With remarks like those of DCU president Ferdinand Von Pronzynski confirming that Ireland could well have an Irish-minority by 2050, we are entitled to be concerned at the implications for hospitals, competition from cheap-labour, the possibility of a United Ireland, and the preservation of our national identity. This is an Irish country, and should remain so. Let some immigrants in, while keeping the Irish a majority therein.

Cronus333

segaBOY wrote:

Fianna Fáil-The Republican party

I thought they got rid of the republican party bit. It made them seem to much like Sinn Fein or something like that.

Cronus333

President4Life wrote:

With remarks like those of DCU president Ferdinand Von Pronzynski confirming that Ireland could well have an Irish-minority by 2050, we are entitled to be concerned at the implications for hospitals, competition from cheap-labour, the possibility of a United Ireland, and the preservation of our national identity. This is an Irish country, and should remain so. Let some immigrants in, while keeping the Irish a majority therein.

That makes us sound like Israel before the six day war 'We can't give palestinians citizenship because they may soon out number us'. Not a great philosophy.

pigeonbutler

One simple response to all those who argue against the government on the basis that things are far more expensive now and that we are in a "Rip-off Republic"

One simple basic economic rule: The higher the money supply in an economy the higher the price level.

That is inescapeable. Prices are higher because we have more money!!!!!

Sure there are lots of areas like Pub trade, legal and medical professions where anti-competitive practises keep prices artificially high but these issues have been with us since the foundation of the State. They are being complained about now because more serious issues like high unemployment have been solved so people are moving down the priority list of what's wrong with the country.

cyclopath2001

DaveMcG wrote:

I've only started to notice things about how Ireland is, and their relation to the government, lately. Like I was waiting at the bus stop, and there's a map that shows where you are and where the buses travel... only, the map was wrong. It got places totally in the wrong place!.

What says it all for me, is the way that cycle tracks were introduced in 1997 and in the following year, the government changed the law and extended their use to motorists!

Supporting FF is supporting a lie. That's just not cool.

Minister Callely spoke of the commitment of the Government to the development of cycling in Ireland. He pointed out that in the Programme for Government a commitment had been give to expand “…the national network of cycleways in order to encourage more people to cycle and to promote cycling as a safe and healthy mode of travel”. The Department of Transport is co-operating with Local Authorities to provide cycling facilities in Dublin and in other cities throughout the country. In the case of Dublin, total investment in cycling facilities and associated studies over the past decade has reached nearly €30 million.

ISAW

Cronus333 wrote:

I thought they got rid of the republican party bit. It made them seem to much like Sinn Fein or something like that.

You thought wrong then. In fact FF were Sinn Fein. they parted company over recognising the irish parliament. SF only recently got around to recognising it and running for seats. BOTH however want a 32 county ireland. So BOTH could be called republican. FF (and everyone else except SF) also recognise only ONE army and one police force in the Republic of Ireland.

Also SF however, in spite of the 32 county Republic model seem to want regional parliaments as I believe they have stated in their EU policy. So SF do ultimately support a Stormont ruling over say the nine counties of Ulster.

On economic policies FF are not at all like SF. It is dificult to know where SF are on these but one might look to the old marxist communists which SF sit with in Europe for similar economic outlooks. FF would be more like FG and Lab in this regard. FF accept private property for example just as some Lab members have big houses and yachts so do FG and FF members. SF only have several mobile phones and Armani suits. I do however believe that many ex provos still linked with SF do have large amounts of money.

Of the SF Td's one owns a market the profit of which he says goes "back into the community" another has joint ownership with his brother of of six acres of land which he "draws no income from" so i don't think they would have a problem with private property.

Victor

ISAW wrote:

You thought wrong then. In fact FF were Sinn Fein. they parted company over recognising the irish parliament. SF only recently got around to recognising it and running for seats. BOTH however want a 32 county ireland. So BOTH could be called republican. FF (and everyone else except SF) also recognise only ONE army and one police force in the Republic of Ireland.

There are two distinct meanings to "republican" in Ireland.

1. Pertaining to a republic (i.e. no monarchy*)
2. Revolutionary nationalism

* "Monarchy" can possibly be used interchangably with "British"

ISAW wrote:

Also SF however, in spite of the 32 county Republic model seem to want regional parliaments as I believe they have stated in their EU policy. So SF do ultimately support a Stormont ruling over say the nine counties of Ulster.

I think thats actually Republican Sinn Féin (RIRA) or the 32-County Sovereignty Committee (CIRA) have that idea, but to be honest all it would be doing is gerrrymandering. If there wasn't a nationalist majority in a 9-county Ulster, they would ask for a 10-county Ulster.

ISAW

Victor wrote:

There are two distinct meanings to "republican" in Ireland.

1. Pertaining to a republic (i.e. no monarchy*)
2. Revolutionary nationalism

Yes and FF and SF would not be in favour of Monarchy. Even in the UK they would not be in favour of it. I mean one of the historic parting of the ways was about an inneffectual "oath to the monarch". However they will tolerate that whatever the people want in their own countery they can have. Most Republicans would be in favour of doing away with monarchy if asked.

I think thats actually Republican Sinn Féin (RIRA) or the 32-County Sovereignty Committee (CIRA) have that idea, but to be honest all it would be doing is gerrrymandering. If there wasn't a nationalist majority in a 9-county Ulster, they would ask for a 10-county Ulster.

Hmmm. I wonder what might happen to the BMW region?
Then again I believe SF and the Greens are in favour or regionalisation. Of course FF wiull also be in favour of it when we have to demark cohestion funding into non Class one areas.

Sleepy

rsynnott wrote:

I'm simply making the point that though public sector public transport isn't the best, private sector public is TERRIBLE. Almost uniformly. Especially where regulation is poor. (The LUAS isn't too bad, but Connex is very much under the thumb of the Railway Procurement Board.)

Hmm, yeah, AirCoach taking you from Cork to Dublin for 12.50 return on a coach service that's more comfortable, faster and cheaper than Bus Eireann is TERRIBLE, isn't it? Citylink on the Galway to Dublin route is €17 for a monthly return while the Bus Eireann service charges €15.30 but personally I think that arriving nearly an hour and a half earlier is worth the extra €1.70 tbh. :rolleyes:

The private sector transport in this country puts the national service to shame. Comparing it to the privatisation of the English transport system is not comparing like with like.

The Luas may not be a bad service, but it's only a shadow of the service it could have been and I can almost guarantee you wouldn't have seen the same cost over-runs if it was a private venture.

ninty9er

To answer the original question: YES it is definately uncool to support FF at the moment. While that is the case (I am a member of Ógra FF), there were over 1500 young people at the FF Ard Fheis in Killarney last October.

The educated people of this country know that good governance is not about being cool, though it does help. Fianna Fáil is the only party in this country that has ever been elected to government in 2 consecutive elections. The FF leaders that have done this are: Eamon deValera, who served 16 consecutive years as Taoiseach out of 21 in total and 14 years as Uachtaráin na hÉireann;Seán Lemass, 7 consecutive years to his retirement; Jack Lynch, led FF from '66 to '79, 9 years of this spent as Taoiseach, beginning and ending his leadership of the party as Taoiseach; Bertie Ahern, has been Taoiseach for 8 and a half years now and our country has gone from a 2nd world economy to a leading 1st world economy.

No other party has had even 1 leader do this once, we have had 4 leaders do it many times. Why??? Because we have consistently been there for the Irish people to pull them out of other partys messes, we have stuck by them through thick and thin, and above all we are The Republican Party, for the people of this republic. In the 83 years since the Irish Free State was declared in December '22, Fianna Fáil have been in power for 55.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that FF is the people's choice. Almost 2/3 of the life of this State has been governed for the people by the people, through their mandate to Fianna Fáil. This is the party that's amde the tough decisions, this is the party that put this country on the track. There's still a lotta track ahead and there's no party better suited to keep it on track than Fianna Fáil

Ireland is turning a corner, and believe me: uncool, unpopular decisions will have to be made. Taxes must increase if people want public services. Ireland has the second LOWEST tax burden of the EU 25, the Lowest of the EU 15 at 30.6%, it is 50.7% in Sweden, Europe' most equal nation, and if our economy is to remain Number 1 in Europe with Lowest unemployment we cannot tax the hand that feeds us (i.e - Multi-nationals). If the Irish people want public services, then they're going to have to pay for them. If all they want to see poor state healthcare, they should go to Boston or New York and try to be seen by an A&E doctor without a medical insurance card. We may charge in Ireland, but at least you get seen.

The taxpayer isn't getting a raw deal in this country, the taxpayer is getting waht the taxpayer is paying for. If the taxpayer wants more, more, more; then the taxpayer is just going to have to pay for it.

I'm 19, I'm working class, I'm going to university, and I will always vote for Fianna Fáil

CerebralCortex

So how come I don't feel happy spawn of Bertie?

Sand

Ireland is turning a corner, and believe me: uncool, unpopular decisions will have to be made.

Yeah, and FF is just the party to make them right? FF doesnt have a single sound principle in its entire manifesto. Itll sacrifice any deeply held position if it will guarantee them 5 more years. Its the party most likely to place the IRA in government the Dail, so much for democratic principles. Its leaders word is completely without value - no one believes anything he says, and he has been shown to be lying when he furiously denied he had promised Gerry and Co speaking rights in the Dail - Oh no, what he had actually promised was speaking rights to a committee made up of the entire Dail - completely different. Fianna Fail is a joke.

The only thing FF has going for it is that the opposition are worse. FG/Kenny confirmed as much when he refused to go against the sheer gombeen government of decentralisation, fearing for his own seat over what was best for the country. Very stateman like of him.

But then, we get the government we deserve. We deserve this shower of muppets.

samb

ninty9er wrote:

The taxpayer isn't getting a raw deal in this country, the taxpayer is getting waht the taxpayer is paying for. If the taxpayer wants more, more, more; then the taxpayer is just going to have to pay for it.
I'm 19, I'm working class, I'm going to university, and I will always vote for Fianna Fáil

I can't see any tax rises with the PD's in coalition, I haven't even heard any suggestion of rises from FF. They seem more right-wing than the PD's recently.
How do you define working class. Will you cease to be once you graduate, get a pay rise. Or will you remain working class but your children not be.

rsynnott

ninty9er wrote:

The taxpayer isn't getting a raw deal in this country, the taxpayer is getting waht the taxpayer is paying for. If the taxpayer wants more, more, more; then the taxpayer is just going to have to pay for it.

I don't think anyone doubts that. But a lot of people would accept modest high-band tax increases if it would stop the country (and particularly the health service, on which we spend less than most other western European nations) falling apart.

ninty9er wrote:

and above all we are The Republican Party, for the people of this republic.

Sorry, what? That's meaningless.

samb wrote:

How do you define working class. Will you cease to be once you graduate, get a pay rise. Or will you remain working class but your children not be.

It's tattooed on the back of your neck.

CerebralCortex

CerebralCortex wrote:

So how come I don't feel happy spawn of Bertie?

Hmmmm, tricky one.

You getting enough sleep? Work too stressful? Drinking too much? How you getting on with the ladies? etc. etc.

Cronus333

so ninety9er, how do you know that the marvelous progress of this goverment isn't due to the PDs? or to groundwork laid by -perish the thought- FG and labour?

Cork

I was at a conference yesterday in Cork where Enda Kenny spoke.

Ray Darcy is about 1000% correct.

Bertie has nothing to worry about.

FG had a decent leader in Dukes and they shafted him.

ninty9er

Progress of FG and Labour?????? in a two and a half year period??? the only decision Labour ever made was to give all free 3rd level education. FG on the other hand were and and still are the definition of indecisiveness.

I'm working class by origin (from a semi-skilled manual background to be precise), where I end up depends on my future occupation and my future economic means, no one can tell where they will end up.

Look, I only stated the facts, take them how you will, perception is a big difference between people.

samb

ninty9er wrote:

I will always vote for Fianna Fáil

That loyalty is dangerous, we must always keep our leaders in check.

I suppose much of FF voters vote FF because their daddys do or did. I remember a flat mate of mine saying he votes FF , I asked why, and he just said ''because WE do''.

samb

samb wrote:

I suppose much of FF voters vote FF because their daddys do or did.

Possibly. And of course the exact same is true for all of the other parties. My neighbour on one side comes from a Labour background, he will always vote Labour, though he will dress it up with lectures on how corrupt the gvernment is. On the other side, there is a FG family, four sons who all vote FG without quite knowing why. The idea that FF are unique in this regard whereas the other parties are supported by some independant intelligensia who are divorced from their background influences and completely unbiased is simply intellectual snobbery.

ronbyrne2005

i used to be a FF member when i was younger and more naive.they will do anything for power and are probably the most nepotistic and cronyism ridden party in ireland.
brown envelopes-corruption-bad planning-brutal health service-traffic gridlock-house price bubble-bad project management and poor forward thinking etc,FF has a lot of responsibility for these.
if your in the tent at the galway races your on the pigs back as is well known,this has to change and bertie knows it as he is now a "socialist" untill its not politically expediant to be.

ronbyrne2005

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

if your in the tent at the galway races your on the pigs back as is well known

Well, that's just the way it is. Similarly if you paid £100 for dinner and the chance to meet Ruairi Quinn when he was a minister (as happened), you were 'on the pigs back' as was well known. Or if you famously paid massive 'green fees' for Labour's 'golf days' (as happened) you were 'on the pigs back' as was well known. Or if you are friendly with the FG front bench and they get into Government you're 'on the pigs back' as is well known. It's naive to think otherwise. Google ESAT/Denis O'Brien if you think it's peculiar to Fianna Fail...

Morrigan

ninty9er wrote:

To answer the original question: YES it is definately uncool to support FF at the moment. While that is the case (I am a member of Ógra FF), there were over 1500 young people at the FF Ard Fheis in Killarney last October.

The educated people of this country know that good governance is not about being cool, though it does help. Fianna Fáil is the only party in this country that has ever been elected to government in 2 consecutive elections. The FF leaders that have done this are: Eamon deValera, who served 16 consecutive years as Taoiseach out of 21 in total and 14 years as Uachtaráin na hÉireann;Seán Lemass, 7 consecutive years to his retirement; Jack Lynch, led FF from '66 to '79, 9 years of this spent as Taoiseach, beginning and ending his leadership of the party as Taoiseach; Bertie Ahern, has been Taoiseach for 8 and a half years now and our country has gone from a 2nd world economy to a leading 1st world economy.

No other party has had even 1 leader do this once, we have had 4 leaders do it many times. Why??? Because we have consistently been there for the Irish people to pull them out of other partys messes,

Educate me more - give me examples, please. By the way didn't some leader of this country describe the economic boom that occured during his "reign" as "A rising tide lifting all boats"... Economic booms that occur all over the western world have helped Ireland - the reason it seems the FF leaders have "Done" this 4 times is because they are in power so much that the law of averages demands that they happen to be in power when this happens! But hey, prove me wrong, ninty9er, prove me wrong.

we have stuck by them through thick and thin

What does this mean?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that FF is the people's choice. Almost 2/3 of the life of this State has been governed for the people by the people, through their mandate to Fianna Fáil.

This country is a democracy. It has always been governed "for the people by the people". It's no big achievement to be the people's choice in a democracy. The very definition of Democracy is THE PEOPLE'S GOVERNMENT.

This is the party that's amde the tough decisions, this is the party that put this country on the track. There's still a lotta track ahead and there's no party better suited to keep it on track than Fianna Fáil

Back this up with examples and references please.

Ireland is turning a corner, and believe me: uncool, unpopular decisions will have to be made. Taxes must increase if people want public services. Ireland has the second LOWEST tax burden of the EU 25, the Lowest of the EU 15 at 30.6%, it is 50.7% in Sweden, Europe' most equal nation, and if our economy is to remain Number 1 in Europe with Lowest unemployment we cannot tax the hand that feeds us (i.e - Multi-nationals). If the Irish people want public services, then they're going to have to pay for them. If all they want to see poor state healthcare, they should go to Boston or New York and try to be seen by an A&E doctor without a medical insurance card. We may charge in Ireland, but at least you get seen.

The taxpayer isn't getting a raw deal in this country, the taxpayer is getting waht the taxpayer is paying for. If the taxpayer wants more, more, more; then the taxpayer is just going to have to pay for it.

I think the taypayer just want their taxes to be managed better. If I am going to be taxed on my megre paycheck I'd like to see it going somewhere worthwhile... As for multinationals, they will pull out whenever they're own internal economy demands it -they are already moving out of Ireland and heading eastwards. Sacrificing the People of the Republic of Ireland in favour of these profit-driven corporations doesn't seem very "Socialist" to me...

ISAW

Cronus333 wrote:

so ninety9er, how do you know that the marvelous progress of this goverment isn't due to the PDs? or to groundwork laid by -perish the thought- FG and labour?

It IS due to the PD's! At least in part anyway. About ten percent. About six parts in eighty six. I dont include Brennan or Mc Creevy as a PD.

But in accepting "marvellous progress" you accept it happened. The Rainbow had eighteen months of the thirteen years since 1992/3 when the Tiger began. Add in Mc sharrys late eighties knife wielding budgets and one has a very convincing argument that minority FF and FF PD has more to do with it than anyone. FF /Lab next after that before any FG Lab arrangement. Rabbitte however did invest in Science when he had the ministry. Gerry Adams would no doubt in governmnet have a chat to his pals in banking and big business. You know? The ones he does the lunch talks to in the Westbury. That is if other pals havent got enough hoarded to set up their own bank! Amazing what pals these socialist friends of the working classes and enemy of property owners have. FF don't deny knowing rich people. Sf have a bit of a quandry admitting it. And the PDs? Well, ballot box in one hand... Gin and tonic in the other.

ISAW

Morrigan wrote:

Educate me more - give me examples, please. By the way didn't some leader of this country describe the economic boom that occured during his "reign" as "A rising tide lifting all boats"... Economic booms that occur all over the western world have helped Ireland - the reason it seems the FF leaders have "Done" this 4 times is because they are in power so much that the law of averages demands that they happen to be in power when this happens! But hey, prove me wrong, ninty9er, prove me wrong.

You have proven yourself wrong! Economic good times may as you claim be in spiote of who was in power but it is more likely related to the idea that it was BECAUSE they were in power. But the point being made was not necessarily that FF caused all world economic upturns but that the Irish people chose FF more than any other party. In that sense FF are the peoples choice. If you then say that it was really others that caused aeverything and FF only happened to be elected at the time you are second guessing the people and saying they were stupid to put FF into power. THAT is where you prove yourself wrong.

This country is a democracy. It has always been governed "for the people by the people". It's no big achievement to be the people's choice in a democracy. The very definition of Democracy is THE PEOPLE'S GOVERNMENT.

It is given the numbr of years FF had in power. Especially since from 1922 to 1928 they REFUSED to run for elections and after that it only took four years for them to gain government.

I think the taypayer just want their taxes to be managed better. If I am going to be taxed on my megre paycheck I'd like to see it going somewhere worthwhile...

Fair comment... and the OPPOSITE of what was being claimed. What was stated was that FF taked people LESS than anyone. You can now fairly claim that the little they tax you is badly managed or badly spent but that
1. remains to be shown and
2. ACCEPTS the fact that the low tax situation is true
[/quote]

As for multinationals, they will pull out whenever they're own internal economy demands it -they are already moving out of Ireland and heading eastwards.

Low skill workforces and high taxation do this! Many of the older seections of the workforce are low skilled or functionally illiterate. There are also well paid highly educated senior beaurocrats. Neither assist efficiency. The jobs are going but what is the alternative? Those jobs will go anyway. Therefore we have to move up the value chain. Trans National corporations are CENTRAL to this.

Sacrificing the People of the Republic of Ireland in favour of these profit-driven corporations doesn't seem very "Socialist" to me...

I assume you refer to Bertie saying he was a "socialist". Well he has to deal with the unemployed, The low skilled, trade unions, public service AND the TNC's so he must have a broad view. Surely you can't believe he serves the TNC's alone?