Back To School

Elmo

Ok not to really annoy people on boards with a thread entitled back to school, because I know I hate the earlier reminders too.

So was chatting in work with parents of children who go to school and who will be starting back in sept 2005, and was disscussing the amount of extra traffic it puts on the roads.

I asked them if their Children get lifts to school and do their children go to schools in walking distance. The anwser to both questions was YES.

There agreed reason was that you cann't be too careful with children's safty now-a-days.

Now its not long ago that I was walking up and down to school but am I to assume that things are alot worse now?

Are kidnappings at an all time high? Ok I will agree with you that their are alot of strange people (peodfiles etc etc, sp?) out there but come on, can children not walk to school with other children, with their bothers and sisters with out parents worrying?

So what do you think of Children not walking to school? I personally think its a disgrace.

I thought about putting this on the parenting board as well.

Victor

A bigger disgrace is adults not walking to work.

Now its not long ago that I was walking up and down to school but am I to assume that things are alot worse now?

My mother gave out to my sister for letting my nieces alone with their friends in the cinema while my sisters had a coffee outside. When I was 10ish, I was allowed go to the cinema with my friend and brother, alone.... and we walked!!!

Are kidnappings at an all time high?

Most kidnapping are by family members or persons known to the family.

grimloch

Unfortunately I was extraordinarily guilty of this. My primary school was maybe 20 minutes away and I got a lift there and back more often than not.

Looking back on it my parents were mad to do it. I should have been given a clip across the ear and told to bloody well walk.

Alun

In general, the levels of this kind of crime remain fairly constant, so most parents' fears are unfounded. The difference is that you hear much more about it in the media, and it is often hyped up out of all proportion.

I either walked, bussed or cycled to school for my entire schooldays and I'm still alive today, so the kids of today can do it too. Might help reduce the child obesity problem at the same time too.

dowlingm

over here there are volunteer wardens on every crossroads to see the chislers across and block parent schemes - safety in numbers negates the car argument.

Rhyme

Its official, people are getting lazier. I know America is basically fish in a barrell when it comes to this but if we continue along like this in not a huge amount of time there wont be paths outside of housing estates and city centre. Im sure parents are afraid that something is going to happen to their children on the 15 minute walk around the corner, but would it be too hard to organise walking with other kids or holding their hand to school. I grwe up in the next town to my school so i dont know what its like to get a lift 3 minutes down the road, its annoying, thats all.

Flukey

People are lazier today. You'll often see people get on a bus and go about two stops, a distance they'd have walked in less time than they were waiting for the bus.Parents are more wary of their kids safety, it's true, but some kids wouldn't walk anyway. I always cycled to school when in secondary (5 minute cycle) and walked to my primary school, about 5 minutes. I never got a lift. A short walk now is "too far" for most kids, and many adults too. It does add to the traffic problems. Walking and cycling may not be very safe, but that is not an excuse for most people that get lifts. More should walk and cycle.

Victor

Flukey wrote:

Walking and cycling may not be very safe

On the contrary walking and cycling are much safer than car commuting.

Kildrought

How many of the above respondents have children attending primary or secondary school?

My children attended a primary school that was just under 2 miles away; at the time the limit for free transport was 3 miles. Whilst the limit was reduced to 2 miles, my children still did not qualify for free transport.

Alternatives?

Walking
a) it's 2 miles
b) an adult walking 2 miles would take about 30-40 minutes, at the risk of being obvious having shorter legs, it takes a child a lot longer - in the region of 50-60 minutes ( yes I have timed this, without an adult present children do not walk fast!)
c) there were 3 major roads to cross, none of them had traffic lights, pedestrian crossings or traffic wardens
d) for older classes in particular, school bags are exceptionally heavy to carry

Cycling
a) only an option for older child (>10 years at least)
b) there were 3 major roads to cross, none of them had traffic lights, pedestrian crossings or traffic wardens

Private Bus
a) Cost £10 per head - £20 per week for my two
b) Spaces not always available
c) Bus took a long route to school and from school to pick up/drop as many children as possible, children could be on the bus for 45 minutes and more.
d) No control over unruly children; bullying and beating of younger children not unusual

Add on the fact that many parents are driving to work anyway, dropping the children to school on the way is seen as a perfectly viable alternative.

If you were faced with the above choices - what would you do?

Elmo

]

My children attended a primary school that was just under 2 miles away;

I am not sure if 2 miles is walking distance, but I will find out how far my school was to my parents house.

I was talking about kids who can walk to school with out need for transport.

there were 3 major roads to cross, none of them had traffic lights, pedestrian crossings or traffic wardens

Where are you living?

Add on the fact that many parents are driving to work anyway, dropping the children to school on the way is seen as a perfectly viable alternative.

My dad went to work in the morning how come it was rare that he gave us a lift up to school?

No control over unruly children; bullying and beating of younger children not unusual

This happens in schools all the time, but in saying the private bus company should have an adult on board other then the bus driver.

How long does it take you do drive your children to work.

Kildrought

Elmo wrote:

Where are you living?

Sorry, not going to answer that..

Elmo wrote:

My dad went to work in the morning how come it was rare that he gave us a lift up to school?

You'd need to ask him

Elmo wrote:

How long does it take you do drive your children to work.

I assume you meant school?

They are no longer in primary school so I don't have these issues any longer (there are others, but that's another story!); but back to my question - if you were faced with these alternatives for your children - what would you choose?

MrPudding

You also need to take into consideration that some parents work. In my case if we walked the kids to school we would be unable to get to work in time.

The kids walk/cycle home from school 3 days per week. We would love for them to do the same in the morning but it is simply not practical.

MrP

Elmo

what would you choose?

If my child/children were able to walk to school I would let them walk.

As other say in the company of other children.

You'd need to ask him

Yeah I used to beg, never worked

We would love for them to do the same in the morning but it is simply not practical.

Why not? Can you not see your kids of to school in the morning? Or do you not trust your kids to go to school?

I annoyies people because of those parents who can let their kids walk to school drive them. Not only that but schools (in general) don't allow parents use the car park, thus you have to get through a load of cars taking up space on the road causing a slow down. going to school. I have even see parent who don't work bring their kids to school.

Even parents have to notice how different the traffic is during the summer, a weeks of school.

Kildrought

Don't forget that with schools being closed, all the teachers (primary and secondary) are also off work; all universities/3rd level colleges are closed as is our beloved Dail (!) and many workers are also off for holidays.

MrPudding

Elmo wrote:

Why not? Can you not see your kids of to school in the morning? Or do you not trust your kids to go to school?

I annoyies people because of those parents who can let their kids walk to school drive them.

My daughter is 6 (almost 7) and my son who is starting school in September will be 3 in December. Forgive me if I do not pack them off to school on their own in the morning.

If I let a 7 year old walk a 2 year old 2KMs to school on their own I think social services would, quite rightly, take them off me.

I appreciate that the school traffic causes considerable problems but you seems to be under some impression that all this extra traffic is unnessecary. In this you are wrong.

MrP

Elmo

If I let a 7 year old walk a 2 year old 2KMs to school on their own I think social services would, quite rightly, take them off me.

I wasn't suggesting that you send your 2 year old off with your 7 year old.

At the age of 7 I was walking 2km to school each day, with friends or on my own.

At the age of 4 I had older sisters who brought me to school.

I hope that by the time your 2 year old is 7 that she is walk to school with friends more often then on her own. Your 7 year old should be in 2nd Level at that stage.

Don't forget that with schools being closed, all the teachers (primary and secondary) are also off work; all universities/3rd level colleges are closed as is our beloved Dail (!) and many workers are also off for holidays.

The Dail still have civil servants working and all of the politicans still work during the summer they might take a brake.

Universities/3RD Level either are away somewhere or are also working.

But then School traffic cause problems in other cities in Ireland where there aren't as many 3rd Level Colleges and Currently no Government departments.

MrPudding

Elmo wrote:

I wasn't suggesting that you send your 2 year old off with your 7 year old.

At the age of 7 I was walking 2km to school each day, with friends or on my own.

At the age of 4 I had older sisters who brought me to school.

I hope that by the time your 2 year old is 7 that she is walk to school with friends more often then on her own. Your 7 year old should be in 2nd Level at that stage.

I don't know how old you are or where you lived but I would not allow my 7 year old daughter to walk to school alone. There is no-one in our area she could walk to school with. I also walked to school from a young age but I think you will find that things that were acceptable when I was young are no longer acceptable.

For my Daughter to walk to school on her own she would have to cross the Clonkeen Road and Kill Lane, two very busy roads. She knows how to cross a road and how to use pedestrian crossings correctly, unfortunately a lot of Irish drivers do not seem to know how to use them.

Her school starts earlier than the normal schools so the crossing guards would not be on duty at the time she would need them. So for us there are 2 options:

7 year old and 2 year old walk to school on their own crossing 2 very busy roads.

or

They get dropped off by my GF on her way to work.

For us the first option is unacceptable. I'm sorry if I appear to be selfish by not putting my children at risk simply so other commuters have 1 less car to compete with in the morning for roadspace (which is not strictly true anyway as my GF woul dstill have to drive to work.)

You seem to have difficulty allowing that it is not always possible for children to walk to school. Is it not possible for you to accept that it may not always be a plausable option?

MrP

Elmo

7 year old and 2 year old walk to school on their own crossing 2 very busy roads.

If you had read my last post correctly you would have realised that I was NOT suggesting that you send your 7 and 2 year old to school alone. You would be total unresponible if you did that. (I assume that your 2 year old is in preschool, or else highly intelligent).

However

If there are Lollypop Ladies (not to be sexist) on the roads at the time that your children are going to school then I would think it would be acceptable to send your 12 and 7 year old off to school with other children in your area.

I agree with you that it would not remove your GF from the road but it would mean that she and everyone else on the road would not have to stop to let your kids into school. But I assume that ur GF is still going to work so that means that the traffic really should be the same during much of the summer.

And again if it is out of your control not to drive your child to school then that is fair enough but their are lots of people whos kids can walk to school with out any fear of DANGER of any kind.

My area is one of those areas, mainly because the schools are close to everyone you are at most 2km from the nearest school and the roads are not very busy. But parents still bring their kids by CAR to school.

Also I would like to point out that it is not just primary schools but also secondary schools. Your 12/13 year old can walk or cycle to school.

MrPudding

Elmo wrote:

If your there are Lollypop Ladies (not to be sexist) on the roads at the time that your children are going to school then I would think it would be acceptable to send your 12 and 7 year old off to school with other children in your area.

If you had read all of my previous post you would see that 1) There are no lollypop persons around at the time my kids woul dbe foing to school and 2) There are no other kids in our area they could walk with.

The school my daughter goes to takes kids at 3 years old, or yougner if they will be three soon enough into the school year.

Just curious, how old are your children?


MrP

Elmo

If you had read all of my previous post you would see that

If you had read my previous previous post you would have realised that I was talking in general about children going to school not urs specifically.

Just curious, how old are your children?

When I do have a family, I will make sure that my kids walk to school from the age of six(at this age i would expect other kids to be around, I know I would have kill my parents if either of them walk me to school at the age of six), and if they are not six that they are either walking down to school with an adult or older children.

2 is very young, but as soon as your daughter is able and if it was appropraite then at the age of 4 when your son is 9, I personnelly would have no fears in sending my kids to school together. But your like all people everyones situation is different, In my area there is no need for children going to school either primary or secondary ever to be brought VIA car.

Flukey

Of course it depends on distance, route, age, dangers, amounts of roads to cross etc. but I still think most of us would agree that there should be more people making their own way to school than actually happens.

John R

Would we also agree that there are far more people using cars for commuting that should also do thew socially responsible thing and leave them at home.

I am not a parent and have no time for the school mums and their apalling driving antics but it is a very popular scapegoat for traffic congestion that is generally used by single occupancy car commuters who are far more culpable. The worst traffic is always to the city in the AM and from the city post 5pm despite the fact that there are relatively few schools near the city centre and schools are mostly closed well before evening rush.

Flukey

There are other areas of problems, but there is always a very big noticeable difference when the schools and colleges are closed. There is a lot of single occupancy because people want their own freedom to come and go and not to have to rely on someone else or be held up by other people. There are lots of other practical reasons too. People may work together but they live in various locations. Your neighbours, while they may be going into town, may be going to somewhere completely different, so it isn't practical to share. Car sharing is very good in theory, but not always in practice.

John R

Flukey wrote:

There are other areas of problems, but there is always a very big noticeable difference when the schools and colleges are closed.

That is because of the addition of extra traffic onto already congested streets, it doesn't even have to be a lot extra as the summertime school-free traffic is bad to begin with. There is also the matter of workers returning from holidays, the vast majority of workers will take at least one week off in July or August meaning there is far fewer commuters on the roads also.

Flukey wrote:

There is a lot of single occupancy because people want their own freedom to come and go and not to have to rely on someone else or be held up by other people.

And how exactly is that less selfish than parents ferrying their kids around for convenience and safety?

I am not saying the kids shouldn't walk/cycle/bus just that it is extremely hypocritical for motorists who congest the busiest streets in the capital every day to demand others change their lifestyle so that they can enjoy their anti-social behaviour.

Some p[eople seem to be under the illusion that their convenience is more important than everyone else's and that traffic jams are caused by all the other cars.

I on the other hand have no children and drive in to the city on average once every three months so am free to complain about the lot of them from my nice comfy morally superior high-horse.