Irish music-swappers admit liability

dahamsta

zuma wrote:

The RTE interviewer actually quoted boards.ie as being full of freeloaders who only wanted free songs!!!

Honestly though MediaSentry can kiss my ass!!!

The RTE interviewer can suck my Cork.

Those "reporters" are ones to talk about freeloaders wanting free stuff, they spend most of their time cruising around sites like Boards.ie and Foot.ie looking for quotes because they're too lazy to go out and do proper interviews, and too stupid to write their own copy. Then they wave around a vague attribution to the site without giving any credit whatsoever to the people they actually quote. Talentless thieving hacks the lot of them.

Quote that, RTE bitch.

adam

pugleon

ntlbell wrote:

I have both NTL and IBB.

Why would you bother if you have NTL????

ntlbell wrote:

not once has someone mentioned a firewall of any sort. IBB "talk" about them? where?.

Well I'm very sorry. But it is in their literature. And they have talked about it anytime I ordered, I can only speak from my experiences. http://www.ntl.com/locales/ie/en/athome/internet_faqs_overview.html

Would also point to IBB's contract and support people who usually state you should get a firewall

ntlbell wrote:

The problem is it's not the exception to the rule it's the majority not the minority.

And you got those statistics from where? Same place as smeegles

ntlbell wrote:

What you were trying to put across is "your lame i'm cool" and you didn't do a very good job of it..

Don't need to impress anyone. Talking about music downloads here, that guy came out with some ridiculous kack. I was trying to put it straight.

ntlbell wrote:

Next boards armchair security guru take a seat please.

Nothing armchair about me sunshine. But again, nothing to prove to gimps. Go take out your repression on someone who actually cares. Leeson St is good for that sorta thing I hear

Getting back to the music, and away from the kack. Anyone got any recommendations on good secure private p2p's? I know about grouper, but I’m looking for something without streaming. Usually best to ask what everyone else is using instead of sitting on a p2p that no one uses

Yv

In my opinion nothing beats having the real CD, with the cover art printed on shiny paper & top-quality sound which depends more on how good my system is than the bitrate it was ripped at. Having said that, I far prefer to get a decent preview of whatever I'm gonna spend my hard-earned money on & in the absence of decent listening posts at record shops the internet is the only viable option. I don't have a credit card or a bank account so I couldn't get legal downloads even if I wanted to. But my point is that people who love music & want to find *good* new music will always look to the internet. About 50% of my cd collection is made up of artists I discovered online or just became more fanatical about online, thanks to file sharing.

I don't download much anymore, I buy cdsm (cable broadband will never reach me where I live), but I agree that the costs are very off-putting. I bought 5 cds in the last month but only because they were on sale. When I copy a cd I almost always end up going to the next Irish gig of that band, or buying their next record. Only if they're good, that is, but if they're not they don't deserve it, right?

One of the reasons cds are so expensive is because labels invest millions in new talent. I'm all for new talent, but I don't see why thousands & thousands of € should be thrown at the merchandising & flashy clothes & fancy videos for bands that will never make it past the first EP.

cdWOW it is for me.

ntlbell

pugleon wrote:

Why would you bother if you have NTL????

Because I don't have to pay for it?

pugleon wrote:

Would also point to IBB's contract and support people who usually state you should get a firewall

"usually" so you listen in on the calls? where's YOUR stats?

pugleon wrote:

And you got those statistics from where? Same place as smeegles

It's based on years and years of expirience in the industry, which you're obviously lacking.

not to mention you agreeing with them in an earlier post.

pugleon wrote:

Fact is most people don't bother, we all know this.

sigh.

pugleon wrote:

Nothing armchair about me sunshine. But again, nothing to prove to gimps. Go take out your repression on someone who actually cares. Leeson St is good for that sorta thing I hear

Definitley not armchair, your obviously a pro, because only pro's reduce themselves to calling people who challenge their nonsense gimps and cheap references to leeson st.

Well done, your're really flying the flag for secuirty profesionals.

obviously you can't lie down when your beat, it's ok to be wrong sometimes.

pugleon

I reserve the term gimp for only the most special of people. Pretty obvious ya need a good time on some street, I'm only naming off the ones I've heard of. I'm here to help when I can...

Years of experience eh? Tv repair was it?

I'm not going to bother responding to anymore of your rubbish how instead just agree to disagree. And as for being wrong, maybe you should listen to your own advice.

Cheers

zuma

Personal insults flying between pugleon and ntlbell.

AFAIK such behaviour is worthy of banning for one or both parties involved!!!

ntlbell

zuma wrote:

Personal insults flying between pugleon and ntlbell.

AFAIK such behaviour is worthy of banning for one or both parties involved!!!

Eh? I didn't get personal at all, just commenting on the personal insults coming from pugleon

plus i think the mods are doing it long enough to know when to ban without anyone telling tales.....

Goldstein

zuma wrote:

Can we get back to talking about the copyright infringers being sued by IRMA in the civil courts please???

Seconded.

Such vehement arguing on a relatively trivial tangent is detracting from an otherwise fairly interesting and lucid thread.

juliuspret

ntlbell wrote:

Eh? I didn't get personal at all, just commenting on the personal insults coming from pugleon

plus i think the mods are doing it long enough to know when to ban without anyone telling tales.....

Stop hijacking this thread to abuse other members!
If you dont stop fighting with other members then you deserve to be banned!

Reku

Yv wrote:

In my opinion nothing beats having the real CD, with the cover art printed on shiny paper & top-quality sound which depends more on how good my system is than the bitrate it was ripped at. Having said that, I far prefer to get a decent preview of whatever I'm gonna spend my hard-earned money on & in the absence of decent listening posts at record shops the internet is the only viable option. I don't have a credit card or a bank account so I couldn't get legal downloads even if I wanted to. But my point is that people who love music & want to find *good* new music will always look to the internet. About 50% of my cd collection is made up of artists I discovered online or just became more fanatical about online, thanks to file sharing.

I agree that having the CD is better, never know if something will happen to screw the electronics in your house, e.g. lightning (my grandmother's pc suffered this fate, surge came through the plug socket I've been told, would've thought the phone line was more likely.), so it's nice to have a hard copy and not just soft copies.
As to using the internet to browse new talent, I just mostly use MTV and the radio, if I only get to hear some of a song and like the bit I heard then I might try find an official band site and watch the vid/listen to the rest of the song but usually tend to just go out and buy the single, if I really liked the song and can't find the single I might buy the album instead and if I did get the single and liked the B-sides too then I'll probably buy the album too. I'm just a HMV/Virgin browsing fanatic, though I've also been finding eBay useful for CDs by bands which just aren't readily available in the shops here (e.g. Less Than Jake [until recently], Dune, The Curve, The Real McCoy and then loads of old 80/90s songs which I was just too young/broke at the time to be able to afford). It's also been useful for getting a few cheap albums.

neon_glows

The record companys and the IRMA are scared, VERY SCARED

Do i have sympathy????

Answer HELL No!!!!!!

Why are they scared????

Because they no they will lose!!!!

Im happy to see there death, this is a war and like any war, the badys dye and us the goodys win.

Remember my gospil:

These people dont support new talent, they suppress it, the internet helps new artists much much more than these clowns, Yes you, you the downloader, the criminal, the thieve and the robber, yes you, you are the one who supports these bands, you like music for what it is, you go to your bands concerts and you wear there T-Shirt proudly on the street even if nobody else likes them.

FACT bands make more money from gigs than CD sales.

Yes you the thief, you are the one who has been proven statistically to spend more money on cds than any simple minded good living person, note i said simple minded, the simple minded people i refer to are drones and sheep.

Just because its illegal to do something doesnt mean its wrong. Just because the law under hitler saw it okay to murder minorities doesnt mean its okay to kill people for there beliefs or race. In other words just because goverments and people in power say its wrong to download songs doesnt mean there right.

FACT the record industry are money grabbing and greedy.

The record industry is only interested in producing the likes of brittany spears, christina aguilara and silly pop bands

Why????

Because its easy to market, easy to sell to young kids and easy to produce because it needs little or no talent, **** it if i was female and had the body of some of these hollywood women no matter how hoarse i was im sure i could get into the music industry easily.

HOW MANY OVER WIEGHT AND UGLY MEN AND WOMEN LIKE ME DO YOU SEE HAVING AN EASY TIME GETTING A RECORD DEAL OR A VIDEO THAT SHOWS WHAT I LOOK LIKE IN IT.

This crap is not music its pure s.h.i.t.e, its not talented, its manufactured and packaged in shiny cases so little kids will annoy there parents to spend the 25e its costs for the crap

The record industry makes these craps artists look as good as possible so they will sell and drive little kids nuts, they use means such as mtv etc to do this. They dress them half naked and give them nice videos, the artists songs are catchy, funny or rebellious, they are easy to pick up. Its all about the image.

Now im all for the artist, im not a musician, im incredibly tone deaf, however some of my mates are queit good musicians and even they will tell you its about the music, all real artists are about the soul and sound, not the money, moneys the bonus, they dont need money they are queit happy with there life as it is.

Now see i care about the artist, i the downloader care about the artist, im the thief but look i would willingly pay 25e directly to the artist if i felt they produce something worthwhile. But not 25e to the record company for sitting on there ass!!!

However do the IRMA and associates care about the artists, does the majority of your money go into the talented persons pocket, nah not a chance, no exact figure but nearly all of your cash goes directly to the labels, very little to the artist, why should the label be paid for the artists work, i understand the label does warrent some money and then some profit on top but jesus people this is what i would call extorsion.

ARTISTS SHOULD BE PAID FOR THERE WORK NOT RECORD LABELS

Yes the record companys keep most of the money, they control what the artists makes and does, they dont promote individuality, its about the image and not the music, record companys take all the cash

Now yes it does cost alot of money to print of all these cds and cases, but do you really think the poor people in the third world who are working 12 hours a day 7 days a week to produce the so many million cds printed get paid that much money, i dont think so.

What about the poor girl behind the counter in hmv on minimum wage who cant afford a 25e for a cd? Probably a single mum, she most do what 40 hours a week, thats a wage of €280 and maybe 70euro a week in benefit, now lets see 350e lets take a 100e for rent, 100e for bills, 70e on food and 80e on school stuff, clothes and other costs, now lets not add the cost of a car, this mum walks everywhere, can she afford a cd?????? do the record company care?????? Do i care?????? Yes i feel just because your economic circumstances are different to me you should still be allowed music. But the record copany doesnt feel the same.

DID I FORGET TO MENTION THE HMV STORE GIRL HAS A PC GIVEN TO HER BY HER BROTHER AND INTERNET ACCESS!

The record companys are pure GREEDY and EVIL corporations, just like eircom and esat and all other corporationd, they like to help each other out and keep each other rich, they dont want us getting affordable music or affordable internet access. They want money. They want to make the rich richier and the poor poorer.

Dont buy cds from stores, you are feeding the corporations, stop buying music like i have!

WAKE UP IRMA, HMV AMD THE LIKES YOUR DAY IS OVER, ITS NOW OUR DAY

in the words of +++The Mentor+++ (a computer hacker)

This is our world now...
the world of the electron and the switch,
the beauty of the baud.
We make use of a service already existing without paying
for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and
you call us criminals.

It sums it up nicely

IRMA its the day your empire is beginning to crumble down.

Fight the machine people.

The money that is paid for these records leave this country, back to the states, why make them rich, if you want to make corporations rich at least start buying cds that are released by irish record labels, and make our own corporations rich, not these heartless prats who have enough money.

Why should we pay so much for so little.

I know half of this doesnt make sense, im nearly asleep. But i want people to know that using the internet to share music isnt wrong, its right, its how we bring music back to its roots, not about the money but about the talent. Its how we cut out the middle man, now we as a new people and a new race can survive, we the internet people who refuse to be robbed, the revolution is begining, no longer do we need extravision to rent our movies at ridicoulous prices, no longer do we need HMV making 90% profit on everything they sell, no longer will we be taken advantage of,

so IRMA, HMV and all you other worthless record companys listen to this internet user, this is friendly advice,

i dont hate you, i just want you to see the truth, we do not like being robbed (yes robbed) we want value for our money, we are not thiefs, look can you not see it is you that is the thief

Move with the times the new medium for our music is no longer a record, nor a tape, nor a cd, times change, our preferred medium is the mp3. Adjust adapt and begin to embrace us and our way of life and thinking, you are now in rome, when in rome do as the romans do otherwise you will lose, theres not long left for you to join us, meet us in our virtual world, bring down your costs dramatically otherwise you will die. Everyday your grip on us gets looser......

Now ask yourself do you feel sympathy for these corporations, sympathy for heartless criminals who will sue children?

Your answer is no isnt it? Ya you bet it is, go walk blessed by my teachings and share fruitfully with each other, isnt that what makes life so good? Sharing?????

Now here it is people, dont give up sharing, dont submit to the goverment, they are our representatives they work for us and not IRMA

- Nicky
- Nicky

qz

That would be so much more interesting if it were paragraphed.

Gegerty

neon_glows wrote:

Blah blah yadda yadda......Adjust adapt and begin to embrace us and our way of life otherwise you will lose, theres not long left for you to join us, soon you will have died.

- Nicky

Here here, touche avec les mange tout.... viva la revolution!!

neon_glows

I definately need to re edit the above, lol

Mutant_Fruit

Ever loaned a book to a friend? Recorded a tv show? Made a mix-tape for a friend?

I believe "time-shifting" is covered in irish law as being perfectly legal. That makes recording a TV show legal I'm pretty sure there might be something about lending books to friends, but i can't remember. Mix-tapes would be legal if your friend owned albums with all the individual songs on it. Otherwise they're illegal.

So, if you want someone to go to jail, make em a custom mix CD and call the IRMA on em

CuLT

neon_glows, I don't think I've seen such mental diarrhoea since I started reading boards.ie.

What the hell are you smoking?

neon_glows

Listen i needed to get it of my chest, iv a big chest and therefor have lots to get rid of. I dont feel bad if you dont read it.

CuLT

neon_glows wrote:

Listen i needed to get it of my chest, iv a big chest and therefor have lots to get rid of. I dont feel bad if you dont read it.

Get a blog.

Marcopolo85

neon_glows wrote:

WAKE UP IRMA, HMV AMD THE LIKES YOUR DAY IS OVER, ITS NOW OUR DAY

Nah - don't think so, bud. Lots of people have downloaded music in recent years, but (at least in my own case) it's minute in comparison to the amount I actually bought and paid for. I bought vinyl/tape, and when the CDs came out I then bought some on that for the improved quality.

It was a good run, but it's over. In fairness to IRMA they had been issuing warnings (several times) over a period of 18 months. First it was 'look - we know this is going on'; then it was 'give it a rest lads'; and then 'one last warning - give it up or we'll have to prosecute'....and all that was a warning just to file SHARERS.

Like everything people thought it would go away and ignored it - it didn't. And yes - it is bordering on theft. A price is charged for a product - if you think it's expensive don't buy it. But you can't walk out of the shop with it. You can't walk into Penneys and argue that you don't want to pay the marked price and walk out of the shop with it.

There are some very good legal alternatives (i.e. iTunes) which are very reasonable (99c per track) - the downside is they don't have the same catalogue as the illegal sites!!! For example if you try to buy 'Dirty Dancing' on iTunes there are only two tracks available. But I'm sure it will improve.

Peanut

Marcopolo85 wrote:

... You can't walk into Penneys and argue that you don't want to pay the marked price and walk out of the shop with it.

I don't think the much repeated analogy with shoplifting does the discussion much justice. I don't believe for a minute that it's the same thing, and it would be nice to have some more reasoned and reasonable debate on that (not getting at you, but just discussion of the issue in general).

Marcopolo85 wrote:

There are some very good legal alternatives (i.e. iTunes) which are very reasonable (99c per track)

Depends on your disposable income, for a lot of people I think this would be classed as 'expensive' just for a single song (I know if you look at it per-album it's cheaper, however you get worse quality, DRM, and no physical medium compared to a CD).

Goldstein

Marcopolo85 wrote:

And yes - it is bordering on theft.

And Strasbourg is bordering on being in Germany...but, and here's the key point, it's not.

Marcopolo85 wrote:

A price is charged for a product - if you think it's expensive don't buy it. But you can't walk out of the shop with it. You can't walk into Penneys and argue that you don't want to pay the marked price and walk out of the shop with it.

Of course not, that would be theft. You would be depriving the shop of a tangible object it would otherwise still have in its possession.

This is distinct from what file sharers of copyrighted material are guilty of, i.e. copyright infringement. No theft occurs but the holders copyright is infringed by the production of additional unauthorised copies.

Of course they're both illegal but the clear distinction between the two has been pointed out many many times and it is a continuing source of puzzlement that it keeps coming up again. Must congratulate Mr. Doyle and friends on an effective, if misleading, campaign.

chorus techy

Peanut wrote:

Depends on your disposable income, for a lot of people I think this would be classed as 'expensive' just for a single song (I know if you look at it per-album it's cheaper, however you get worse quality, DRM, and no physical medium compared to a CD).

Just to follow on to that quote, in relation to Marcolo Polos previous post - It's expensive considering you can go out and buy a 2 or 3 disc CD compilation set with anything from 40 to 60 tracks on it, and it only costs €30 max. This €25 costs CD production, artist royalties, tax, import duties, advertising and promotion and the record label's cut. Why then, must we pay 99c PER SONG on a legal download site? If we want to download 60 songs, why do we have to pay close to €60 for an inferior product which you cannot place on as many devices as you want, you can only burn to CDs a limited amount of times and often sounds crap? If you are going to buy tracks from compilation CDs, most compilations will have maybe 90% decent songs on them and the rest will be utter crap. So if you don't want to buy compilation CDs, why should pay such a large amount? Of course you're going to download illegally if you only want a few songs. Until the record labels drop their greed tactics and allow better flexibility, both in choosing and the pricing of songs and the actual product itself (ie. silly DRM and low bitrates) then I think they will find it very hard to shift either people who are moving to getting music off the internet, or to changing P2P filesharers habits of buying music.

CuLT

I bought an album today.

I'm incredibly proud of myself.

Malafus

neon_glows wrote:

Just because its illegal to do something doesnt mean its wrong. Just because the law under hitler saw it okay to murder minorities doesnt mean its okay to kill people for there beliefs or race. In other words just because goverments and people in power say its wrong to download songs doesnt mean there right.
- Nicky

Hmmmm, Godwin's law seems to be on sabbatical.

If I liked any music I *ahem* acquired off the net, I would likely purchase merchandise related to the artist in question, t-shirts, concert tickets etc. that I would not have bought otherwise. It's a double-edged sword, TBH.

Marcopolo85

chorus techy wrote:

Just to follow on to that quote, in relation to Marcolo Polos previous post - It's expensive considering you can go out and buy a 2 or 3 disc CD compilation set with anything from 40 to 60 tracks on it, and it only costs €30 max. This €25 costs CD production, artist royalties, tax, import duties, advertising and promotion and the record label's cut. Why then, must we pay 99c PER SONG on a legal download site? If we want to download 60 songs, why do we have to pay close to €60 for an inferior product which you cannot place on as many devices as you want, you can only burn to CDs a limited amount of times and often sounds crap? If you are going to buy tracks from compilation CDs, most compilations will have maybe 90% decent songs on them and the rest will be utter crap. So if you don't want to buy compilation CDs, why should pay such a large amount? Of course you're going to download illegally if you only want a few songs. Until the record labels drop their greed tactics and allow better flexibility, both in choosing and the pricing of songs and the actual product itself (ie. silly DRM and low bitrates) then I think they will find it very hard to shift either people who are moving to getting music off the internet, or to changing P2P filesharers habits of buying music.

Sorry Chorus Techy - of course you're right......but I should clarify my point.

1. I was using the 99c as a comparison to a CD single, which costs up to €5.99 in the shops. You usually get two or three extra tracks which are commonly $hite in my experience. So the 99c looks extremely cheap in comparison.

2. The quality is excellent, and there are none of the difficulties associated with, say, eircom.net music, where it is a complete chore to download songs legally. You just click on the song you want and it downloads (on broadband) in about 30 seconds.

3. Regarding albums, here are some of the prices on offer today:

Black Eyed Peas - Monkey Business - €9.99
50 Cent - The Massacre - €9.99
The Killers - Hot Fuss - €9.99
Basement Jaxx - The Singles - €9.99

And so on. I stand corrected if wrong, but I think most of the above will cost somewhere between €16 and €22 in the shops, so iTunes is an alternative. I'm not saying it's a perfect one, rather a cost-effective way of choosing a selection of songs to suit your pocket. You can buy the above (delivered) for €12.99 on play.com, but if you don't want to wait, then iTunes is for you.

In my own case I find MP3s far more flexible than CDs, as there's no trawling through to select music. Just create a playlist and off you go. I have not used CDs for over two years now. They're packed away in the attic!

iTunes allows you to burn the album to CD, and will even compile the artwork for you. It's very convenient.

Marcopolo85

Goldstein wrote:

And Strasbourg is bordering on being in Germany...but, and here's the key point, it's not.

Not quite the same thing...... :eek:

PiE

Marcopolo85 wrote:

It was a good run, but it's over.

It is?

the corpo

i really don't see how irma etc is going to cope with the technology changes of the next couple of years.

whilst currently relatively cumbersome to do, its quite feasible that i could fire up my laptop on a bus, in a pub etc, either create a local wireless network or join another users one, and browse and copy their files. when i'm done the local network is shut down and vanishes forever. with machines like the sony psp and other handhelds coming with wireless built in, this will definitely become a common way of filesharing.

how is the *industry* going to combat that??

Marcopolo85

PiE wrote:

It is?

Well it is if you don't want to lose your house!! :eek:

PiE

I find it great that IRMA have succeeded in putting the fear of god into people for doing basically what people have been doing since recordable cassettes were first introduced. It's cute.