Loyalist murder and drug dealing.

catholicireland

Isnt it time the media had a good look at what the evil, murdering bastard loyalist terrorist gunmen are doing? They must be stopped and they must be locked up. I believe that unionist politicians, who could help in this situation, should take the thumb out and stop innocent people being killed by these evil bastards.

Zombrex

catholicireland wrote:

Isnt it time the media had a good look at what the evil, murdering bastard loyalist terrorist gunmen are doing?

I think they are ...

http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&ned=uk&q=loyalist+murder&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&start=20

murphaph

catholicireland wrote:

Isnt it time the media had a good look at what the evil, murdering bastard loyalist terrorist gunmen are doing? They must be stopped and they must be locked up. I believe that unionist politicians, who could help in this situation, should take the thumb out and stop innocent people being killed by these evil bastards.

The Unionist politicians I've seen interviewed on TV (David Irvine, for one) have condemned fro a height these drug dealing scum. The mainstream parties have all condemned them. They accept that the PSNI are the lawful body charged with upholding law and order and are happy for the PSNI to act as it sees fit. IIRC Irvine said these gangs were 'destroying protestant areas, not protecting them'. That was on UTVLive about 2 wees ago. Pretty unequivocal condemnation I'd say.

segaBOY

murphaph wrote:

The Unionist politicians I've seen interviewed on TV (David Irvine, for one) have condemned fro a height these drug dealing scum. The mainstream parties have all condemned them. They accept that the PSNI are the lawful body charged with upholding law and order and are happy for the PSNI to act as it sees fit. IIRC Irvine said these gangs were 'destroying protestant areas, not protecting them'. That was on UTVLive about 2 wees ago. Pretty unequivocal condemnation I'd say.

Last week the PSNI/RUC allowed masked loyalists walk into an estate and expell a rival group from their estate, the PSNI/RUC just let this happen, stood back and let it happen.

gurramok

murphaph wrote:

The Unionist politicians I've seen interviewed on TV (David Irvine, for one) have condemned fro a height these drug dealing scum. The mainstream parties have all condemned them. They accept that the PSNI are the lawful body charged with upholding law and order and are happy for the PSNI to act as it sees fit. IIRC Irvine said these gangs were 'destroying protestant areas, not protecting them'. That was on UTVLive about 2 wees ago. Pretty unequivocal condemnation I'd say.

Tonight the PSNI were criticised by the DUP for heavy handed tactics when searching houses in a loyalist area where they were investigating another loyalist murder and blamed them for the consequent hijacking of numerous cars and a lorry in north Belfast.
Sounds like they are condoning violence instead of condemning !

tomMK1

i see that as one of the next things that need to change - IRA disarms - Government sort out policing/patton report - something gets done about the one sided media, cus it is one sided and always has been.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

tomMK1

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

really daveirl, i dont give a toss what you and others may think if it doesnt effect the actual fact that the media has been sometimes selective in its reporting.

like when the IRA annouced they were standing down the media reported the IRA stops 30 year reign of terror.

for a start, it was 36 years, and secondly there are a lot more organiseations other than the IRA involved in and responsible for the troubles of the past 36 years - yet to listen to the media you wouldnt think that.

I have much more interest in SF/IRA crimes because when they are committing crimes their burning money in chimmneys 5 miles from my house.[/

and you have absolute proof thaat that was indeed money made from crime specifically for Sinn Fein (or the IRA)? Proof please?

catholicireland

I think they are ...

Is is enough tho?

Tonight the PSNI were criticised by the DUP for heavy handed tactics when searching houses in a loyalist area where they were investigating another loyalist murder and blamed them for the consequent hijacking of numerous cars and a lorry in north Belfast.
Sounds like they are condoning violence instead of condemning

Sounds worrying

murphaph

Man I would hate to be in the PSNI. Damned if they do, amd damned if they don't. I saw that twat Nelson McCausland being interviewed on UTVLive and he was basically blaming the police for the rioting last night. The two tribes are just a bunch of savages with the PSNI trying to maintain some semblance of law and order.

mycroft

catholicireland wrote:

Is is enough tho?

What would be enough mark durkin roaming the streets like charles bronson?

tomMK1

mycroft wrote:

What would be enough mark durkin roaming the streets like charles bronson?

thatd be funny though ..everyt ime i see a picture of durkan I'll be thinking of charles bronson

murphaph wrote:

Man I would hate to be in the PSNI. Damned if they do, amd damned if they don't. I saw that twat Nelson McCausland being interviewed on UTVLive and he was basically blaming the police for the rioting last night. The two tribes are just a bunch of savages with the PSNI trying to maintain some semblance of law and order.

they should be just damned and be done with it. get a police force that actually looks after the community.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4705081.stm (half the complaints are from the protestant and unionist community)

murphaph

tomMK1 wrote:

they should be just damned and be done with it. get a police force that actually looks after the community.

'Looks after the community'? I thought they were looking after the community when they fired baton rounds at the scum who were petrol bombing brand new £100,000 double decker buses that the community need to get about. Or were they wrong to try to prevent damage to property that the community, especially it't less affluent members needs.

tomMK1 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4705081.stm (half the complaints are from the protestant and unionist community)

Assuming roughly the other half are from the Catholic/Nationalist community then that's a sign of a non-sectarian police force. A good thing surely.

tomMK1

'Looks after the community'? I thought they were looking after the community when they fired baton rounds at the scum who were petrol bombing brand new £100,000 double decker buses that the community need to get about. Or were they wrong to try to prevent damage to property that the community, especially it't less affluent members needs.

off ye go .. you can debate that with yourself.

Assuming roughly the other half are from the Catholic/Nationalist community then that's a sign of a non-sectarian police force. A good thing surely.

and how do you reckon thats non sectarian? just because equal amounts on either side complain?

Besides, the point is the PSNI do not represent the community they police - again, debate the sectarianism-ness of it with yourself.

A Dub in Glasgo

murphaph wrote:

Assuming roughly the other half are from the Catholic/Nationalist community then that's a sign of a non-sectarian police force. A good thing surely.

Ignoring the sectarianism angle for a moment, you think it is a good thing that the police are thugs and bullies??

mycroft

tomMK1 wrote:

thatd be funny though ..everyt ime i see a picture of durkan I'll be thinking of charles bronson




they should be just damned and be done with it. get a police force that actually looks after the community.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4705081.stm (half the complaints are from the protestant and unionist community)

So let me great this straight, the article you post shows that;

Both communities in NI use the ombudsman proportionally to their population a clear sign that the PSNI isn't sectarian (because if it were a disporportional amount would come from one community than the other)

The article also announces that there's been a fall in complaints in the last year.

And this is the article you're using to condemn the PSNI as sectarian and useless? :rolleyes:

Tom you're freaking hilarious.

Incidently over ten arrests and a number of raids were made today, sounds like they're making progress

murphaph

tomMK1 wrote:

off ye go .. you can debate that with yourself.

If you don't want to debate a point, don't quote it.

tomMK1 wrote:

and how do you reckon thats non sectarian? just because equal amounts on either side complain?

Yes.

tomMK1 wrote:

Besides, the point is the PSNI do not represent the community they police

The actual point is that this thread is about Loyalist drug dealing scum yet you've managed to turn it into a thread about the PSNI's ability to police the community that you believe they don't represent, even though you're on record as saying the PSNI only represent the protestant/Loyalist community.

tomMK1 wrote:

again, debate the sectarianism-ness of it with yourself.

And again, don't raise the issue if you don't want to debate it.

murphaph

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Ignoring the sectarianism angle for a moment, you think it is a good thing that the police are thugs and bullies??

I don't think the PSNI are thugs or bullies.

magick

I have much more interest in SF/IRA crimes because when they are committing crimes their burning money in chimmneys 5 miles from my house.

have you ever offered to chimney sweep for them?!

rsynnott

They haven't blown up enough children recently. It's tough getting publicity up there...

gurramok

mycroft wrote:

And this is the article you're using to condemn the PSNI as sectarian and useless? :rolleyes:

Well, not forgetting that they allowed a few hundred uvf men to force a number a families out of their homes while the psni stood idly by and a police training college across the road from the estate, hardly a good omen?

PSNI are inconsistent in their approach, if they get attacked they fight back which is understandable. But they do nothing while civilians are getting attacked in these situations.
The message they are sending out is that they are 'afraid' of the loyalists, they need to crack down harder like they did to alleged republicans in ardoyne to be seen to be evenhanded.

murphaph

gurramok wrote:

...they need to crack down harder like they did to alleged republicans in ardoyne to be seen to be evenhanded.

They did crack down on Loyalists on wednesday and the rioting that ensued was blamed on their crackdown. Like I said-they can't win. Every scumbag non-law abiding person up there hates them.

mycroft

gurramok wrote:

Well, not forgetting that they allowed a few hundred uvf men to force a number a families out of their homes while the psni stood idly by and a police training college across the road from the estate, hardly a good omen?

I've yet to see a reputable source for this story. While I'm not saying it didn't happen, I think the event is being exaggerated in the terms of the PSNI's reaction, for example what did you expect the recruits to do, attack a large group of armed UVF thugs with harsh language, and inexperience?

How many PSNI officers stood by, for how long, and what where the circumstances?

Police were confronted by angry loyalists who threw petrol bombs. Three cars, a bus and a tip-up lorry were hijacked and set on fire during the rioting in the Crumlin Road area. Earlier yesterday morning, three officers were injured during searches of properties in north Belfast as youths threw missiles, including televisions, at them.

The vicious turf war between the Ulster Volunteer Force and the splinter group the Loyalist Volunteer Force, has left three men dead and seen hundreds of loyalist paramilitaries descend vigilante-style on a Belfast housing estate and force families from their homes.

From here

police injuries, confrontation, riots, this doesn't suggest they stood "idly" by.

PSNI are inconsistent in their approach, if they get attacked they fight back which is understandable. But they do nothing while civilians are getting attacked in these situations.
The message they are sending out is that they are 'afraid' of the loyalists, they need to crack down harder like they did to alleged republicans in ardoyne to be seen to be evenhanded.

Yeah and as pointed, theres been over a dozen arrests, 14 raids, what more do you want?

gurramok

mycroft wrote:

I've yet to see a reputable source for this story. While I'm not saying it didn't happen, I think the event is being exaggerated in the terms of the PSNI's reaction, for example what did you expect the recruits to do, attack a large group of armed UVF thugs with harsh language, and inexperience?

Let me refresh your memory from BBC BBC
Armed thugs should be arrested and charged, according to the law of the land. Its the least you would expect when people are confronted by criminals.

mycroft wrote:

How many PSNI officers stood by, for how long, and what where the circumstances?

The PSNI didnt give numbers, but you can see on TV that there was a large police and army presence in the Garnerville estate. (thats assuming you watch the news from NI to keep update with events which is available on BBC and UTV in ROI.)

mycroft wrote:

From here
police injuries, confrontation, riots, this doesn't suggest they stood "idly" by.

you misread my post, they stood idly buy in Garnerville but took action in Crumlin road, they are inconsistent in their approach.

mycroft wrote:

Yeah and as pointed, theres been over a dozen arrests, 14 raids, what more do you want?

See above, carry out there job, not just when they feel like cracking down.

Even moderate nationalists like Alex Attwood who sits on the Policing Board was horrified at the PSNI's toleration of loyalists terrorists evicting families.

mycroft

gurramok wrote:

Let me refresh your memory from BBC BBC
Armed thugs should be arrested and charged, according to the law of the land. Its the least you would expect when people are confronted by criminals.

Yes but while, thats one instance, where the police reaction was inconsistent (on the surface) the BBC article makes it clear there was an indetermine police presence, so we don't know what their reaction should and could have been.

For example

from your article wrote:

He pointed out that families had already moved out of the area, when police arrived on Sunday evening.

As I understand this, the police arrived too late to stop what had happened.

The PSNI didnt give numbers, but you can see on TV that there was a large police and army presence in the Garnerville estate. (thats assuming you watch the news from NI to keep update with events which is available on BBC and UTV in ROI.)

And I'm in London.

you misread my post, they stood idly buy in Garnerville but took action in Crumlin road, they are inconsistent in their approach.

No as I understand it the Crumlin road event was far more serious, and the PSNI got to grip with the situation as quickly as possible.

See above, carry out there job, not just when they feel like cracking down.

Or alternatively caught off footed the first day, and coming up with tactics for the second.

Even moderate nationalists like Alex Attwood who sits on the Policing Board was horrified at the PSNI's toleration of loyalists terrorists evicting families.

While I don't doubt there are questions to be asked, I'm just wondering how this doesn't satisfy you, while the first events a Undefined police presence reacted to an unusual situation poorly, in the second event they acted quickly and firmly, sounds more than a police force reacting to it's mistakes.

MrPudding

gurramok wrote:

Let me refresh your memory from BBC BBC
Armed thugs should be arrested and charged, according to the law of the land. Its the least you would expect when people are confronted by criminals.

The BBC article linked to above. wrote:

However, he stressed that police had been pro-actively trying to deal with the feud.

"People may have got the impression that the police were not in control of that, but the police were in control. We would urge people not to take the law into their own hands."

He pointed out that families had already moved out of the area, when police arrived on Sunday evening.

Officers were monitoring and controlling the area, taking names of those wearing masks, and gathering evidence, he said.

"One of the difficulties for us was that there were no complaints from members of that community about those people being there," he said.

"We looked at what those people were doing in the area to see if we could gather any evidence of offences and if there had been any arrests to be made, we would have made them."

I have highlighted a few points I think are relevent. From the article it seems that some boyos arrived round in the middle of the night and told certain people that it would be best if they left. They left. They did not call the police they just left. It seems that when the police arrived the families had already left. What do you want them to do?


Where were the armed thugs they are supposed to arrest? They may have been there during the night but that was before the police arrived and no one called them to alert them to the fact that there were armed thugs in the area.


You may be trying to give the impression tat an armed gang was roaming the estate all day forcing people from their homes but the article you have linked to yourselve shows that this is not the case.


MrP

Gwyllin

Has any Irish Republican ever tried to look beyond the violence and futility of these men and seen that he himself is as full of flaws and unnecessary hatred as them? Just wondering.

hill16

Here is a true Republican.http://www.irishclans.com/articles/famirish/tonetw.html

hill16

And another.http://www.bobbysandstrust.org/hstrikers/sands.asp

murphaph

FFS. This thread is about Loyalist drug dealing and general thuggery. All the paramilitary organisations are drug dealing criminal scum, but this thread is just about Loyalists and how the PSNI are dealing or attempting to deal with them.

gurramok

MrPudding wrote:

You may be trying to give the impression tat an armed gang was roaming the estate all day forcing people from their homes but the article you have linked to yourselve shows that this is not the case.

If you had watched the the TV pictures from then, it can be clearly seen that there were a few hundred hooded men making sure people would not move back into their homes.
It also showed removal vans during the day coming back and forth and gangs
hanging around in full view of the PSNI making sure not one of the families return.
In relation to Crumlin Road, the message seems to be if the police are attacked they will respond but when civilians are attacked like in Garnerville, they stood idly by. Hope that this is not a bad omen for the future.

Now as loyalist violence is ongoing with another attempted murder this morning and attacks on the police overnight, isn't it about time that watchtowers were erected by the security forces in those areas where the violence and mayhem is coming from?