Has anybody watched Rip off Republic on RTE

BrendanBurgess

Hi Michael

A site with the word "facts" in its title, should take particular care that the facts are correct and that the headlines or opinions are supported by the facts.

I have outlined the background to the Eddie Hobbs/Tony Taylor issue here. I would challenge you to read what I have written. If anything I have said is wrong, please let me know and I will correct it. If you don't find anything wrong with it, I would ask you to issue an apology to Eddie for the insinuations in your article.

Brendan

finfacts

BrendanBurgess wrote:

Hi Michael

A site with the word "facts" in its title, should take particular care that the facts are correct and that the headlines or opinions are supported by the facts.

I have outlined the background to the Eddie Hobbs/Tony Taylor issue here. I would challenge you to read what I have written. If anything I have said is wrong, please let me know and I will correct it. If you don't find anything wrong with it, I would ask you to issue an apology to Eddie for the insinuations in your article.

Brendan

Brendan,

It is you who perceives the insinuations. There are both facts in the article and an opinion on the potential for a conflict of interest.

The Taylor Group was the most high profile financial intermediary both in its heyday and following its collapse. It would hardly be strange or unusual in detailing a subsequent activity (in this case in the Consumers' Association of Ireland) to refer to where a high profile individual had held a directorship or senior position previously. Fraud is common enough in business for people to appreciate that because one person had their hand in the till, it does not follow that everyone else is culpable.

As to responding to your specific points, I understand that Paddy McSwiney, the liquidator of Taylor's companies has yet to conclude his work. As a third party, I wouldn't anticipate what a liquidator would report in accordance with company law including his conclusions on the directors. So you are asking me to respond to issues that will only become "facts" when the liquidator's final report is filed. That of course is not to imply that there will be an adverse finding.

Irish Times journalist John McManus wrote in June that the conclusion of the Taylor liquidation had been delayed, because IFSRA had requested to review some files.

Your request for an apology isn't merited as no insinuations were made. Harping on the Taylor issue could politely be termed a "red herring."

No apology is also merited for highlighting the bizarre situation where the CAI publicly protests that it has no representative on the Interim Board of the National Consumer Agency while the Minister terms Eddie Hobbs a "consumer advocate" and the Agency itself has him listed as a "financial consultant FDM" along with two of the board who are listed as "consumer" - presumably representing consumer interests.

And finally, I do recognise the difference between "facts" and otherwise.

Michael Hennigan

ambro25

Forgive my intrusion back to the OP, but...

I finally caught last night's broadcast - and though diverting (and indeed bordering on condescendance), I have learned with surpise that I shall now consider myself as a "New Irish", according to the presenter's phraseology.

After years of rolling my ball throughout Europe, I don't offend easy, particularly where notions of xenophobia are concerned - but this comment was, for a mainstream programme on the Republic's main channel, grossly out-of-order.

Eddie Hobs, as a "New Irish", I do not salute you :mad:

rondjon

ambro25 wrote:

Forgive my intrusion back to the OP, but...

I finally caught last night's broadcast - and though diverting (and indeed bordering on condescendance), I have learned with surpise that I shall now consider myself as a "New Irish", according to the presenter's phraseology.

After years of rolling my ball throughout Europe, I don't offend easy, particularly where notions of xenophobia are concerned - but this comment was, for a mainstream programme on the Republic's main channel, grossly out-of-order.

Eddie Hobs, as a "New Irish", I do not salute you :mad:

Huh????

pan

ambro25 wrote:

Forgive my intrusion back to the OP, but...

I finally caught last night's broadcast - and though diverting (and indeed bordering on condescendance), I have learned with surpise that I shall now consider myself as a "New Irish", according to the presenter's phraseology.

After years of rolling my ball throughout Europe, I don't offend easy, particularly where notions of xenophobia are concerned - but this comment was, for a mainstream programme on the Republic's main channel, grossly out-of-order.

Eddie Hobs, as a "New Irish", I do not salute you :mad:

Ambro,

I don't think it meant in a bad way, nore do I think you should take offense from it.
"New Irish" you are actually being called irish, a good thing, right??

pan

finfacts

RainyDay wrote:

But you do set yourself as a 'commentator', as evident from your long, rambling ranting editorial style article. Shouldn't YOU be obliged to disclose to the public the extent of YOUR advertising income from financial services. Just as you question Eddie's motivation, aren't we entitled to question YOUR motivation. Perhaps you're just knocking him because he was getting at some of your advertisers?


How many extra click-thru's did you generate by posting a link to your commerial site on this forum? Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone....

RainyDay - first of all on motivation, what may be your motivation, as Product Manager, Personal Finance as detailed on your profile? I use my own name. So perhaps if you're not Eddie Hobbs, you may be in receipt of commission from business from him, put your way!!

So anytime a media outlet expresses a view on a sector, its advertising revenue should be disclosed? Advertising can influence a media organisations output but the argument in this context is a smokescreen.

One issue raised in the article was in relation to the National Consumer Agency where there were appointees from business, consumer interests and 2 academics.

You suggest that I have no right to ask what interest does EH represent as he is active in both sectors, because we accept advertising from finance companies.

-Would you like to have a media like North Korea's??

So before you offer further pieties, let us know who you are so that a judgement can be made on your motivation. You can then head off on diversions.

Michael Hennigan

ambro25

rondjon wrote:

Huh????

never mind, rondjon, never mind...

pan wrote:

Ambro,
I don't think it meant in a bad way, nore do I think you should take offense from it. "New Irish" you are actually being called irish, a good thing, right??
pan

Well, dunno, but since he directed the comment at people who were manifestly from Sub-Indian extraction/ethnic group, I can't help wonder...
Why did he not just designate them 'people' or 'consumers' or...? It's the connotations of the expression with which I have a problem.

This is not a PC rant, btw (I'm about as anti-PC as they come ), I just found the comment particularly irritating and symptomatic - a bit like commenting to 'the masses' on Rip Off Ireland with a Alf Garnett-grade populism tainted with a correspondingly (marginal) xenophobic slant suited to the audience's presumed tastes...

At any rate, feel free to ignore my rant, I'm not particularly bothered if I am the only foreigner who feels insulted by this remark (note that it would be a first, though)

FinoBlad

Hobbs analysis on these shows is way too simplex. Its good to see people taking an interest but Hobbs just scratches the surface on each issue, takes the piss outof the politicians, gets a laugh and moves on.

He's being a pain in d'arse each time he says bertie is taking 2 billion here and 1 billion there. You'd think he was sayin bertie or the government is taking it for themselves. This show is really just a comedy show imho, little ireland can shake their fist at the tv on a monday night, blame everyone from big business and their pressure groups and the government. The truth is people are mostly to blame for letting it happen.

You know we could drive down the price of your weekly shopping AND leave the groceries order as is you know the crazy thing is there is some merit in it.

BrendanBurgess

Finfacts said:

Harping on the Taylor issue could politely be termed a "red herring."

At last we agree on something. It is a total red herring. But you raised it as follows in your "article"

Eddie Hobbs had been a senior manager in the financial services firm Taylor Asset Management, that went bust when its founder Tony Taylor fled to the UK, following the stealing of clients' funds. Hobbs subsequently became a finance spokesman and Council Member of the CAI

If it's a red herring, why did you raise it? Any other journalist would have pointed out that there was absolutely no impropriety on Eddie's part. You deliberately choose to leave the comment there. In the context of an "article" questioning Eddie's conflicts and putting inverted commas around the word "champion", you are simply attempting to damage his reputation. Why else would you raise this issue without a proper explanation?

There are very few of us who campaign against the practices of your advertisers, the financial institutions. It is simply not possible to have any understanding of the area without having conflicts of interest. Having conflicts of interest does not mean that your opinions and activities are affected.

Why not try to identify any action or opinion of Eddie's that is influenced by these conflicts of interest? Why not point out the millions of euros saved by people due to his campaign which abolished endowment mortgages?

By all means, disagree with Eddie. I disagree with him often. But that's because I think his opinion is wrong, not because I want to stop him protecting the consumer

Brendan

I read in last weeks farmers journal that a macra group in Tipperary iirc asked Eddie Hobbs to speak at one of their meetings and they were quoted €3000 :eek:

They were calling him rip off Eddie

RainyDay

finfacts wrote:

RainyDay - first of all on motivation, what may be your motivation, as Product Manager, Personal Finance as detailed on your profile? I use my own name. So perhaps if you're not Eddie Hobbs, you may be in receipt of commission from business from him, put your way!!

Hi Michael - Thanks for proving my point better that I could have ever done myself. You've once again highlighted Finfacts/your amazing ability to selectively choose the bits that suit your arguement, without having any view to context or balance. The important bits that you omitted to quote from my profile are bolded below;

Interests:
Personal Finance
Occupation:
Product Manager

Just in case you're having difficulty understanding the distinction, Personal Finance is my Interest, not my occupation. And you choose to spin that I might be recieving comission from EH! For the record, I don't work in the finance industry. I work in the IT industry and I've no relationship with or role in the finance industry.

This puts your attempted slurs on Eddie in context. You drag up Taylors and try playing the 'guilt by association' game, but you conveniently forget to include the important bits, like the fact that Eddie personally funded the detective who found Taylor and ensured that he was brought to justice.

But please do keep posting - your posts are having a great impact on the reputation of Finfacts for balanced reporting.

is_that_so

Saw parts of last night's programme. It didn't really hold my attention and there was little all shocking about it. I agree that he is something of a self-publicist; you could easily get tired of him and quite a bit of what he said was self-evident. But he does occasionally make you stop and think. Nonetheless I think his forte is a stage like Show me the Money where he is not the centre of attention.

logonapr

Considering that Eddie Hobbs allegedly charges €3,000 to speak as a guest speaker hard to see him as credible when he talks abour Rip Off Ireland.

I don't have a problem with him charging that amount if he can get someone to pay it, but it does reduce his credibility to lecture others about their prices.

I also find it ridiculous to hear him comparing our prices to South Africa etc. unless he also compares wages, taxation etc between the countries.
The only true measure of a price surely is its relationship to average earnings.

Yes, there are rip offs in Ireland but surely it is the consumer who pays these prices that are to blame more than the person who sets the price.
We live in a market economy and that means that pricing is set at what the market will bear. The old Soviet Union tried the route of controlled prices and we can see where that led to.

As for what constitutes a rip off it surely is a perception issue. Most people see Ryanair as a sort of consumers champion that brought cheap travel to the masses. Yet even their prices can also be regarded as rip off by some.
If I wanted to fly one way to Stansted at 21:45 tomorrow evening the charge would be €157.28 including taxes but the exact same flight in 4 months time would be just €19.28. Rip Off? No! Expensive? Very! Yet it is simply them getting the best price that they feel they can.

Rip off Ireland has become a cliched phrase but it is meaningless unless we compare these prices against proper benchmarks and not ridiculous ones from under developed countries.

CJhaughey

The point made many times is not the fact that competition is regulated by the politicians, effectively making a non-level playing field.
example: cafe-bars publicans lobbied and what happens?
another example : deregulation of pharmacies and liberalisation of pharmacists to allow British trained pharmacists to work here.
example: Insurance, do you see many european or british insurers offering cover here?
Rip-off Ireland is a fact and no matter how much shopping around you do you cant win!
I can go on and on about engineers fees , planning levies, but the fact is I am being ripped off daily and can do very little about it.

ambro25

logonapr wrote:

Most people see Ryanair as a sort of consumers champion that brought cheap travel to the masses. (etc, etc.)Yet it is simply them getting the best price that they feel they can.

Erm... not quite

It is how their business model works: "the first shall be first" i.e. how they can make a lot of people travel by air for €20 and very few people for €150, and still stay in business. That's no pronouncement on Rip-Off or otherwise, but all the same it's not "the best price that they feel they can"

CCOVICH

Good send-up of EH this morning on the Ian Dempsey show. Roy the Boy as well

MorningStar

CJhaughey wrote:

The point made many times is not the fact that competition is regulated by the politicians, effectively making a non-level playing field.
example: cafe-bars publicans lobbied and what happens?

Many people believed no regulations were changed yet a large liberalisation was brought in and some people think the publicans won. From what I found out effectively a restraunt can now serve beer and have a bar it just can 't be visible from the street. Not sure but I have heard it explained as such on the radio.

CJhaughey wrote:

Rip-off Ireland is a fact and no matter how much shopping around you do you cant win!
I can go on and on about engineers fees , planning levies, but the fact is I am being ripped off daily and can do very little about it.

Planning levies were introducced as a direct charge for the expense brought to the local council. At one point you had a person on the dole paying taxes to pay for somebodies sewage works in their million euro build. I am not saying certain things aren't a rip off just not to bunch direct charging as a rip off when it is probably fairer than before. If you assume the change to direct charging for services used as a rip off you will make yourself more miserable. Certain things are cheaper also, I bought a plain t-shirt for €3 (£2.30) on Saturday which is definitley cheaper than 15 years ago.

rondjon

DublinWriter wrote:

Yup, read the earlier posts in the thread (mine included) mentioning that this programme must have slipped 'through the net' while a few high-ups at RTE were away sunning themselves.

Don't think so. This would have been pitched to them over a year ago to see if they'd buy it.

There's no way it would have been made it RTE hadn't said that they'd take it up.

carsinwalls

Do you think Charles J Haughey cared about the people of Ireland when he was busy receiving brown envelopes?
Do you think that any of the rich people of ireland really care that the cost of living is too high for us "ordinary folk"?
YES.... they care
They care about the fact that now, instead of getting €400,000 for selling their house in D4, their probably going to get €800,000..
They care that they have to pay their employees an extra 00.67 cents in their wages every week.
They care alright....
But do they care in the normal humane sense of the word ie with compassion, understanding and sympathy?
because if they did, then we wouldn't have such an obvious divide as there stands today between rich and poor......


So far I have enjoyed every minute of "rip off republic" and the topics raised are definitely in keeping with what I have always felt about our beautiful (yet extortionately priced) Isle.

However, it seems that, whenever a major problem is encountered in Irish Culture, we either 1, go to the pub, and promptly forget about it or, 2 we boycott the pubs, buy a load of cans, stay at home and promptly forget about it.

The point I'm making is this,
Everyone is giving out and everyone is looking for someone to blame, and no-one (not even the government) are offering any realistic solutions.

There are only two ways in which people can combat our frightening cost of living and these are......
1 Emmigrate
2 Become one of the non-caring, compassion-free Rich!

Daunted by the thought of number 1 above and somewhat bemused by the thought of number 2 about a year ago I said goodbye to the rat-race and my €27,000 a year job and joined an online business opportunity. Today I am earning over 4 times what i used to earn at my old job and this is only going to get bigger as the months and years go by.

So in order to quell this raging debate a little i'm offering a possible "micro solution" to the high cost of living in Ireland........

There are a lot of business opportunities out there in cyberspace today and most of them are pure and utter junk! However, there are businesses out there that are helping ordinary people from all over the world earn extraordinary amounts of Income.
Now I'm not saying that everyone should jump on the band-wagon and become a "dot-com netpreuner", but what I am saying is this... The online market place is fast becoming one of the best means of generating a viable income from home, and us Irish don't seem to know anything about it.

So I would urge all people not to be bound so closely to the state in looking for a solution to this problem. The only real way to deal with the rising cost of living is to get more money!!! (the super rich know this secret and daren't share it with anyone!)
So stop waiting for our minister of finance and , heavan forbid, our pubs to sort out this mess.......

CJ once said "a man must live"

I say "every man woman and child must live" and whilst I'm under no delusions of "fixing" the world, I will say that the internet affords an opportunity to ANYONE who is willing to learn how it works. And whilst it is by no means perfect, it does provide one of the best opportunities for people from all walks of life to make a LOT of money,
Currently I have people on my team from some of the most marginalised regions of the world who are earning thousands of dollars weekly.


Food for thought eh?

Tazz T

/Carsinalls waits for his inbox to fill

MorningStar

carsinwalls wrote:

However, it seems that, whenever a major problem is encountered in Irish Culture, we either 1, go to the pub, and promptly forget about it or, 2 we boycott the pubs, buy a load of cans, stay at home and promptly forget about it.

Actually before that we just moan the drink just makes more moaning and no action.

carsinwalls wrote:

The point I'm making is this,
Everyone is giving out and everyone is looking for someone to blame, and no-one (not even the government) are offering any realistic solutions.

carsinwalls wrote:

There are only two ways in which people can combat our frightening cost of living and these are......
1 Emmigrate
2 Become one of the non-caring, compassion-free Rich!

Maybe the first port of call is to stop moaning and do something
The second step is not to buy the expensive things. Birthday card expensive don't buy it make one!

But most all try to actually looking at the facts and not read into the utter hype. Certain things are cheaper now and more importantly people can actually afford things now. Furniture is cheaper now as are clothes. If you want to buy designer clothes here they are more expensive here than elsewhere. Why?
1)We have higher tax on the clothes,
2)Higher insurance
3)We are an island that gets most of its good through another island
4)We have a small market (the same size as one city in the UK)
5)The market tolerates it.

If you want money to last longer use it smarter, make your own lunch and don't buy food already premade of any sort. If you look at sales figures it's this kind of food that is being sold. Fresh food is getting more expensive because less people buy it and premade food (washed and cut carrots) cost more directly and indirectly and also make huge profits for the chains. Tescos and the like are so selective on fresh food to for appearance that they make it cost more too. It's very easy just to say rip off and not think

THe solution is really simple watch what you buy and don't fall for marketing or media hype.

is_that_so

MorningStar wrote:

Maybe the first port of call is to stop moaning and do something
The second step is not to buy the expensive things. Birthday card expensive don't buy it make one!

As yes the Blue Peter days.

MorningStar wrote:

THe solution is really simple watch what you buy and don't fall for marketing or media hype.

Marketing works because it tempts us. In many ways it is because we have "no time" and we are happy to pay for a service. That to me is the crux of the problem. Our perceived lack of value and service for the price we pay.

An expensive restaurant that offers fantastic food that gives you what you expect in terms of quality and service is good value even if it costs a you €50 a head or more.
One that charges €30 and €25 for wines and gives you what you can cook at home does not.

A PC that costs Joe Public €750 but where the assistant has concentrated on getting the best machine for him is good value. The fact that some people can assemble the bits for €350 is irrelevant to him.

I agree with most of your comments but the sackcloth approach will not work. We can't always shop in Aldi or Lidl, although for some people it is a necessity. Some of us don't want to make lunches. We like our luxuries like any affluent society and those who have it feel they have probably earned them. What can help is people voting with their feet rather than their mouths. And this is where I agree completely with you. But services have to be paid for. Cut and washed carrots with a friendly smile and excellent service sells. Anything less deserves not to and you go somewhere else.

is_that_so

Latest Figures for the Show :rolleyes:

MorningStar

is_that_so wrote:

Latest Figures for the Show :rolleyes:

What is scarey is people believe him without thinking. The belief that people are too busy to do things like wash a carrot seems to be extending to thinking. I am lucky enough to live near a butchers, baker and fruit and veg shop so I avoid the supermarkets. Mostly over price but I am getting better quality too and the money is staying with Irish business.

Telefís

It's difficult to say the programme is either poor or good, as there are elements of both in there.
Pertinent and correct points are made, but also a lot of bluster such as all the 'billion' quotations made - as if national taxation figures are going to be small.
Likewise I think most people would be of the opinion that having levies on wine and alcohol in general is no bad thing. And yet all these supposedly 'negative' points arer allowed to build up over the course of the programme so that by the end the viewer is supposed to be outraged - despite a lot of the points being made are entriely subjective, and some not even grounded in fact. What's the point in quoting just South Africa without quoting 10/15 other developed nations?
Indeed the very use of a single nation instantly smacks of constructing the facts to suit your argument.

It's from this perspective on a host of levels that so much of the prog just doesn't add up.

But it's well shot, Eddie is a fantastic host, a lot of it can be very funny, and it holds your interest the whole way through. Just a pity there isn't more balance and substance.

One thing that really annoys me, and not just in relation to this programme, is the increasing use of the Helix for RTÉ productions. Exactly why is RTÉ lavishing public funds out to a private operator for a venue, when it has an international standard studio complex in Montrose?
Why isn't Studio 4 or Studio 1 being used - Studio 4 being the perfect size.
It seems it is independent production companies that are increasingly pitching the Helix, rather than RTÉ originated progs which still use Montrose.

How many tens of thousands of licence-payers money are being shelled out for the Helix including their broadcast facilites (no doubt also privately hired for an additional cost), when the revenues could be going to RTÉ for their staff and facilities in the Television Centre?
Another rip-off for Eddie to investigate.

rondjon

Telef&#237 wrote: »

One thing that really annoys me, and not just in relation to this programme, is the increasing use of the Helix for RTÉ productions. Exactly why is RTÉ lavishing public funds out to a private operator for a venue, when it has an international standard studio complex in Montrose?
Why isn't Studio 4 or Studio 1 being used - Studio 4 being the perfect size.
It seems it is independent production companies that are increasingly pitching the Helix, rather than RTÉ originated progs which still use Montrose.

How many tens of thousands of licence-payers money are being shelled out for the Helix including their broadcast facilites (no doubt also privately hired for an additional cost), when the revenues could be going to RTÉ for their staff and facilities in the Television Centre?
Another rip-off for Eddie to investigate.

RTE didn't make this show. It was an independent production company who came up with the idea and pitched the show. Why would RTE allow an independent company use it's facilities?

rondjon

Telef&#237 wrote: »

What's the point in quoting just South Africa without quoting 10/15 other developed nations?
Indeed the very use of a single nation instantly smacks of constructing the facts to suit your argument.

Why, oh why, do so many people get hung up on this arguement?????

Roll of film (or whatever the example was) costs €x to manufacture and deliver.

So, it the exact same item costs €x+2 in one country, why should we in Ireland be paying €x+8?

Whether SA is a developing country or not, the economics of this are simple. We're paying 4 times more for an item, just because we are living in Ireland.

And that, my friend, is the rip-off.

MorningStar

Telef&#237 wrote: »

Why isn't Studio 4 or Studio 1 being used - Studio 4 being the perfect size.
It seems it is independent production companies that are increasingly pitching the Helix, rather than RTÉ originated progs which still use Montrose.

How many tens of thousands of licence-payers money are being shelled out for the Helix including their broadcast facilites (no doubt also privately hired for an additional cost), when the revenues could be going to RTÉ for their staff and facilities in the Television Centre?
Another rip-off for Eddie to investigate.

Not 100% sure on this but I think the shows aren't directly done by RTE in the same way as the old days. I think RTE commision the show to other companies and they use the most cost effective method. Due to the unions it is cheaper to do the show else where. The facilities in the Helix are apparently state of the art unlike RTE. If RTE is more expensive and has poorer facilities I don't see the problem. I would support unions in the past but they seem to be counter productive these days.

rondjon

MorningStar wrote:

I think RTE commision the show to other companies

Technically, RTE didn't commission this show. The production company came up with the idea (they do Show me the Money as well), and then pitched the show to RTE to see if they'd pay for it.

So, wasn't even RTEs idea in the first place.

iregk

While I agree with a lot of points here in that comparisons are rather subjective the underlying point still remains. For many things we are ripped off we are paying over the odds. But its not the government or the publican who is to blame. We say that and blame them because we live in a country and time when you just don’t take blame on yourself for anything. You see a wet floor in the supermarket and fall you don’t get up and say, ah crap why didn't I walk around it, you say oh im bringing legal action it was someone else’s fault....

Its time we all woke up and took the blame ourselves because we are the ones to blame. Inflation and market prices are not driven by business, they are driven by us. The price of a pint is expensive but that’s because we have no problem paying it! Whatever we are willing to pay is what gets charged. House prices are unreal, but hey didn't stop any of us queuing up for hours to put a deposit down on a 300k shoe box.

If we all refused to pay for a pint or a house the sellers have two options. Lower the price to get the business back or fold due to lack of business. Its our call, its up to us do we want to continue to pay €5 a pint or refuse and get the price back down to €3?