FIFPro World XI

eirebhoy

FIFA announced the 55 players shortlisted for World XI. 38,000 footballer from around the world voted for 4 defenders, 4 midfielders, 4 forwards and 1 goalkeeper. More here:
http://www.fifpro.org/index.php?mod=one&id=14259

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2005361149,00.jpg

How Joe Cole got in ahead of Duff I'll never know. Doesn't say a lot for Mourinho who prefers Duff does it. I'm shocked Joe Cole is in there tbh when you think of all the players that could be there. It wasn't long ago Duffer was voted the best left winger in the world and he has only improved since.

Guy:Incognito

This is like the maffia or something. Carra is going to have to kill off Gerrard to get a look in anywhere.

Beckham my arse! playing for Real gets you in if you have a big enough name.

Van Nistlerooy spent half the season out injured and couldnt kick a ball straight when he came back.

Drogba hardly had a world beating season.

Sol bloody Campbell? Whos haveing a laugh. Rio? seems being banned for a drugs related incident is a career boost nowadays.

Gileadi

im very keen to know how they narrowed the list down to the 55, i love Robben but he was injured quite a lot last year and wasnt around too much in the bigger games in the CL or premiership

carra should also be in there ahead of cambell or rio judged on his CL heroics

Serbian

The usual over-hyped English players. John Terry and Frank Lampard deserve to be in there but the rest, especially Joe Cole, are a joke, as is the entire competition.

Slash/ED

JOE F*CKING COLE!?

Dear jesus. I expected a list like this to be a total joke but that's taking the píss. This is like that list that had Diof down as one of the worlds greatest ever players.

therecklessone

Its voted on by the 38,000 members of FIFPro (all professionals)

Think of all the countries in the world who've never heard of Damien Duff...

These awards are like internet polls, totally unrelated to reality. Its a popularity contest FFS!!!

Though how the hell Joe Cole got in I'll never know...

SCULLY

eirebhoy wrote:

How Joe Cole got in ahead of Duff I'll never know. Doesn't say a lot for Mourinho who prefers Duff does it. I'm shocked Joe Cole is in there tbh when you think of all the players that could be there. It wasn't long ago Duffer was voted the best left winger in the world and he has only improved since.

I don't think that I would have Cole in the list either but Duff did precious little last season to warrent inclusion either. He started off great but in the second half of the season he seemed off the pace and quite lethargic. The Community Shield performance for Duff was typical of many of his performances since Christmas. Cole on the other hand, did improve as the season went on though whetehr he gets a chance this season remains to be seen.

eirebhoy

SCULLY wrote:

I don't think that I would have Cole in the list either but Duff did precious little last season to warrent inclusion either. He started off great but in the second half of the season he seemed off the pace and quite lethargic. The Community Shield performance for Duff was typical of many of his performances since Christmas. Cole on the other hand, did improve as the season went on though whetehr he gets a chance this season remains to be seen.

I agree but its not "Player of the first half of 2005". Its just the top 55 players in the world atm. BTW, that community shield performance is everything asked of Duff. Mourinho transforming him into a player that is only allowed beat players every odd game may be good for the team holding possession but its not doing him any favours personally. Robben was allowed to go and beat players and I can't remember him getting by one. Robben has never played well for Chelsea against a big team and Duff was usually the better of the 2 players in the 4-0 wins.

Big Ears

eirebhoy wrote:

Robben has never played well for Chelsea against a big team

Theres a simple reason for why that is..............pace , once a defender can match Robben for pace he has him . Just like in the Euro's Robben didn't look great because he simply wasn't quick enough to go by defenders and resorted to his diving antics .

Duff however is slower than Robben but still posses the skill to go by people quicker than him .

Joe Cole , oh god these popularity contest are priceless .

Drag00n79

While I agree that Cole's place is laughable, I would not have Scholes, Beckham, Figo or Drogba in there either. If it is based on last season, neither should Ruud van Nistelrooij be there.

Big Ears

Walter Samuel and R.Carlos' places are laughable too .

The Muppet

Shamrok wrote:

If it is based on last season, neither should Ruud van Nistelrooij be there.

Why, Who was the top scorer in the CL last year?

[Jackass]

Well we should expect this kind of thing by now tbh. It's not fashionable to be Irish in the football world...it never was, and it seems, we can never shake off our reputation from the Charlton era. Like, for example, Roy Keane, who was the best player on the planet for at least 3 years of his prime, yet was never even a third place runner up in any fiffa, uefa, or player/media (european) award. Easly deserved world player of the year in 98/99 season. Also don't forget Shay Given, consistantly the best Goalkeeper in the UK for about 4 years running......

England, on the other hand, is the most fashionable team in world football for some reason...all their clubs are the most markted, and their leauge is widely regarded as the best in the world. They even have celebretys in their national team who can't be dropped, such as glamour model David Beckham, who isn't a particuarly talented at his part-time job as a footballer, yet still holds out the likes of SWP from the national team.

But then again...who needs awards, we'll have a good world cup next summer, which is proof enough we have world class talent.

Drag00n79

Never mind the Champions League. He scored 8 goals because ManU were in a soft group and he hit four against a pisspoor Sparta Prague side, which could only earn one point from the group. Tuncay Sanli (Fenerbahce) and Ivan Klasnic (Werder Bremen) scored five. Should they be chosen too :rolleyes: He scored six goals in the Premiership last season, hardly deserving of a place in this elite.

~Rebel~

The Muppet wrote:

Why, Who was the top scorer in the CL last year?

ya top scorer in champs league fair enough, but a decision to include someone shouldn't be based on a handful of games in which he got loads against dodgy opposition instead of a whole season of misery. I think he's a great player and everything but he had a bad season and doesn't deserve that place, much as baros doesn't deserve one for being top scorer at euro's and having a mediocre season after it. He just wasn't in the top 10 strikers in the world last year and wasn't even close. Personally id pobably replace him with baptista or forlan for their amazing achievements.

That said, it is obviously a pretty stupid competition all round, but in the end it will probably actually be one of the top worlds players that wins it.

pickarooney

Kahn will still be on that list ten years after he retires.
Scholes?

Kingp35

That list in abolute joke. I had to laugh at some of the players who were selected for it.

First off Kahn is in on relutation alone.

Joe Cole?? wtf is that about. Van Nistelrooy had a very poor season socring only 6 premiership gaols and he gets in there?? Sol Campbell was injured for a godd while and then he couldnt win his place back in the team. I dont think I have to say anymore why he shouldnt be in it. Scholes is well past his best and had an average season. Again in based on reputation and past glories. And worst of all I think is Drogbas inclusion. He did nothing last season to justify the crazy money that was paid for him There was far better strikers in the premiership alone than him last season. He was very average and even all the pundits are still very unconvinced as to whether he has it or not. A joke inclusion.

As for the non english bases players who shouldnt have been included. First off David Beckham. He has never been a top footballer and he is an average player who, if it wasnt for his playboy image would find it very hard to get into any top side at all. Walter Samuelhad a nightmare at Real. He is simply terrible for them and so left to go back to Italy. How he got in I dont know. And finally Figo. How did he get in? He couldnt even get a game for Madrid at the end of the year because Owen was keepeing him out. If he was playing so well do you think this would have happened.

I dunno if this list is supposed to be some kind of joke or something but it certainly seems like it to me

TheMonster

AFAIK this is not based on last season but refers to current standings of players. Van Nistelrooy has a poor season last season but few can argue is not one of the top strikers in the world. Scholes is probably the only United player not justified in being there. As with all these polls there will be a lot of dead wood in them. Joe Cole,Scholes and Figo are a case of this.

SCULLY

DubGuy wrote:

Also don't forget Shay Given, consistantly the best Goalkeeper in the UK for about 4 years running......

I love those green tinted glasses - are you telling me that Given is a better keer then say Chec?

Seaneh

Besides Chec Given has been the best keeper in england for well over 4 years.

Seaneh

DubGuy wrote:

Like, for example, Roy Keane, who was the best player on the planet for at least 3 years of his prime, yet was never even a third place runner up in any fiffa, uefa, or player/media (european) award. Easly deserved world player of the year in 98/99 season.

Green tinted glasses again.

Roy Keane was without doubt great that season but there were better midfeilders at the time, the best midfeilder (and imho player) in the world that year was Fernando Redondo, he was amazing in every department for Real.

[Jackass]

SCULLY wrote:

I love those green tinted glasses - are you telling me that Given is a better keer then say Chec?

Well what im saying is that Given has been the best g'keeper in supposedly the best leauge in the world for about 4 years running...and now that cech is in the leauge there is a another world class keeper, but i wouldn't consider him by any margin better than Given...both on a par, but not better.

Seaneh wrote:

Green tinted glasses again.

Roy Keane was without doubt great that season but there were better midfeilders at the time, the best midfeilder (and imho player) in the world that year was Fernando Redondo, he was amazing in every department for Real.

Obviously everyone can debate who they think is the best player in the world in any given season, for me Keane was unparaleld that season, you may say the same about Redondo, but my point is no matter how good Keane plays, by nationality, he could never have won the award....I don't know why you are both saying green tinted glasses, because i'm not...infact that's the very thing im talking about...if we call an Irish player world class its "green tinted glasses" how could an Irish player be world class!".... that's the my whole point Keane, Duff, Given are (were?) world class!
One of the most sucsessfull managers in club football history called Roy Keane the best player he's ever had...Duff will get his game ahead of the likes of Joe Cole who is on the list of the best players in the world week in week out, there's no comparrison!
Given is a top class goalkeeper no matter what anyone says, and im sure most people would agree the best keeper in premier leauge for years, certainly before cech.

I havn't got green tinted glasses, you've got white tinted glasses, you watch sky sports premier leauge action, you catch England internationals on the BBC, you here Sven GEs comments, and read the papers and believe all the hype, and quite honestly, crap about how good the English players actuallyare. You probably think David Beckham is one of the greatest players in the world, and has a reputation to match his skill...that Wayne Rooney is the new Pele, as was being said all over England in his first season with Everton (Don't get me wrong, he's a superb player, but not one of the greatest off all time) Or that Stephen Gerrard is even in the same leauge as Roy Keane (RE: Liverpool Vs United last season).....

I suppose if we dont even acknowledge our own players, how can we expect the rest of the world to? :rolleyes:

Davei141

I havn't got green tinted glasses, you've got white tinted glasses, you watch sky sports premier leauge action, you catch England internationals on the BBC, you here Sven GEs comments, and read the papers and believe all the hype, and quite honestly, crap about how good the English players actuallyare. You probably think David Beckham is one of the greatest players in the world, and has a reputation to match his skill...that Wayne Rooney is the new Pele, as was being said all over England in his first season with Everton (Don't get me wrong, he's a superb player, but not one of the greatest off all time) Or that Stephen Gerrard is even in the same leauge as Roy Keane (RE: Liverpool Vs United last season).....

What a load of crap. Wayne rooney is an amazing player, he was hyped so much and has lived up to that, what more can you ask for. You can judge hes not one of greatest of all time and hes 18, good job, they said he could be the new pele not that he WAS the new pele. Gerrard not in the same league as keane? You having a laugh or what? and you dare say you aint got green tinted glasses. you choose a game where liverpool played crap vs united and base it on that. Im not saying gerrard is better or worse, but a rediculous statement like that is bull.

crap about how good the English players actuallyare

The english players are good, very good. you can dislike them because of the hype all you want, but the fact remains they have a great set of players.

Guy:Incognito

Davei141 wrote:

. Gerrard not in the same league as keane? You having a laugh or what? and you dare say you aint got green tinted glasses. you choose a game where liverpool played crap vs united and base it on that. Im not saying gerrard is better or worse, but a rediculous statement like that is bull. .

Gerrard hasnt a patch on Keane and never will. One big thing Keane has oe Gerrard is cop on. Gerrard is always trying to give a 40 yard killer ball. whereas Keane can stop and play the simple ball that, to people easily impressed by the odd great ball makes Gerrard look great. But to people who know football and have played it, Keane is far Better and is far far better thatn Gerrard. Plus then theres also the fact that they are completey differnt types of plyer. Gerrard is not a midfielder, He plays off the front two, breaking past the strikers. Thats the only position hes good at and looks good playng.

Keane dominates games and dictates the type of game and the pace its played at. He plays box to box and is undisputably the best at what he does.

Davei141

Not a patch...laughable language, gerrard creative wise is better than keane. Keane is better at the bread n butter stuff but when gerrard is on top form to say hes not a patch on keane is actually insulting to anyone who watches football. Keane dictates the game well. Gerrard creates loads of goals and scores loads. But nobody can touch keane...Whenever he has a bad game its blamed on the team 'not trying enough', when gerrard has a bad game he gets slaughtered.

to people easily impressed by the odd great ball makes Gerrard look great

Classic stuff, odd great ball...do you know how many assists he has? how much his 'odd great ball' results in goals?

But to people who know football and have played it,Keane is far Better and is far far better thatn Gerrard

Well i know football and ive played. I love that 'people who know football' bull****. Gerrard created 3 goals tonight in the game against sofia, hes scored 7 so far...13 last year, been performing great since he broke into the liverpool side.

Keane dominates games and dictates the type of game and the pace its played at. He plays box to box and is undisputably the best at what he does.

If keane is the 'best at what he does', so is gerrard at what he does, so how can you go on about not having a patch on him when hes not even a midfielder as you put it.

Guy:Incognito

Davei141 wrote:

Not a patch...laughable language, gerrard creative wise is better than keane. Keane is better at the bread n butter stuff but when gerrard is on top form to say hes not a patch on keane is actually insulting to anyone who watches football. Keane dictates the game well. Gerrard creates loads of goals and scores loads. But nobody can touch keane...Whenever he has a bad game its blamed on the team 'not trying enough', when gerrard has a bad game he gets slaughtered.



Classic stuff, odd great ball...do you know how many assists he has? how much his 'odd great ball' results in goals?



Well i know football and ive played. I love that 'people who know football' bull****. Gerrard created 3 goals tonight in the game against sofia, hes scored 7 so far...13 last year, been performing great since he broke into the liverpool side.



If keane is the 'best at what he does', so is gerrard at what he does, so how can you go on about not having a patch on him when hes not even a midfielder as you put it.

You were the one who disputed the fact that Gerrard is not in Keanes league. I pointed out the differences.

Gerrard wastes a lot of possetion needlessly, whereas Keane doesnt, that alone makle him much more valuable. I would much rather Gerrard was a carbon copy of Keane than what he does now. Whoop dee doo, Gerrard had a big part to play in the goals that beat a mediocre team, that if anything less than a win was gotten , the team would have been slated. With or without Gerrard, Liverpool were expected to win tonight, Where is Gerrard when he is playing in the middle against Keane, Viera (sp?) and Makelele ? Nowhere, because they are the ones dictateing the game.

PHB

Of course they are going to dictate the game, they have an extra 8 years of experience.
Wait 8 years, Gerrard will be very similar to Keane/Makelele right now

ziggy

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Kingp35

Seaneh wrote:

Besides Chec Given has been the best keeper in england for well over 4 years.

I totally agree on this. Its beyond me why he has stayed at Newcastle for so long when he could easily have moved onto one of the big boys who were all looking for a top goalkeeper at one stage or another

eirebhoy

ziggy67 wrote:

I don't think Keane & Gerrard can really be compared, they do different things.

Keane does the "water-carrier" role that is so vital in todays game.
Gerrard does the goalsorer/creator role.

Scholes is more in the Gerrard mould than Keane.

In Championship manager terms I always would have thought Gerrard was a MC. Keane used to be but is now a DMC. Someone like Lampard/Ronaldinho is an AMC (although until Essien comes in Lampard has to fill in the MC role). I musn't be watching many Liverpool games. I though Gerrard was a box to box player (ie. The same position as the Keane of old).

ziggy

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Drag00n79

PHB wrote:

Of course they are going to dictate the game, they have an extra 8 years of experience. Wait 8 years, Gerrard will be very similar to Keane/Makelele right now

I'm just reading this thread for the first time since yesterday and PHB has said exactly what I would have. I have no problem in saying that Keano at his peak was a better player than Gerrard is now, but Gerrard has time on his side. Put Keano back to when he was 25 and we still had not seen the best of him. Likewise the best is yet to be seen of Gerrard over the next five years. My tuppence worth!

PHB

Keane is a DMC, but not by choice.
The reason he has fallen back to this position is because he doesn't have the legs for MC anymore.
Gerrard is an MC. He doesn't have the passing ability of an AMC like Ronaldinho or Scholes, but he has the pure determination, the ability to take, the driving runs, etc.
just like Keane used to have.
In 8 years time when Gerrards legs are gona, he will be just like Makelele and Keane are now

Davei141

Where is Gerrard when he is playing in the middle against Keane, Viera (sp?) and Makelele ?

Your basing that on all last years performances, theres been plenty of times where hes outplayed keane and vieira. At anfield this year gerrard tore arsenal apart. Vs chelsea at anfield we totally out played chelsea. Vs united both times this year liverpool were crap, thats right, the whole team. It could also be argued that makelele, keane and vieira (before he left) were in better teams. As i said before when keane doesnt dictate the game or has a rubbish game every bit of blame is directed towards anyone else.

I would much rather Gerrard was a carbon copy of Keane than what he does now.

Oh this is good, you really want to count all the goals hes scored and made then wish he played like a 'carbon copy' keane.

Whoop dee doo, Gerrard had a big part to play in the goals that beat a mediocre team,

He cant win can he?

You were the one who disputed the fact that Gerrard is not in Keanes league. I pointed out the differences.

I disputed it because somebody said hes out of keanes league...As if to indicate hes well better than gerrard, if theyre different why are they being compared? Keane is great at what he does and gerrard is great at what he does, but hes not a patch right?

Gerrard wastes a lot of possetion needlessly, whereas Keane doesnt, that alone makle him much more valuable

He doesnt do those 50 yard passes nearly as much and if you were watching him over the last year you would know that. Keane doesnt waste possesion, he doesnt create anything with it either, (i know the others do the creating) but you can criticise gerrard when gerrard possesion results in goals. Yes they arent the same players so why are people mentioned leagues and other bull****? Why are they saying hes 'not a patch' on a player who is very good at what he does? When the player in question is one of the best at what he does?

Guy:Incognito

Davei141 wrote:

Your basing that on all last years performances, theres been plenty of times where hes outplayed keane and vieira. At anfield this year gerrard tore arsenal apart.

He tore them apart yes, but not from midfield, he was playing as a second striker in that game.


The fact of it is Gerrard is athis best when breaking past the strikers or playing in behind them. He hasnt got the defensive ability to play the holding role. The same can be said of Lampard. It doesnt make them bad players, they just arent defensive players which is why you need a holding player like Alonso/ Hamann at Liverpool or Makalele at Chelsea. It is also blatently obvious when you watch England with SGE idiocy in persisting with Gerrard/Lampard midfield.

Theres no defensive players in Englands midfield and decent teams stream through them like their not there. Any weaknesses with England CB pairing and they will get mauled. Beckham/Lampard/Gerrard and a left winger is not a midfield to win competitions with. Individually they are very good players but together the defense is left horribley exposed.

Draupnir

This thread reminds me of the old Soccer forum. Whats the point in this discussion since Dave is quite obviously unwilling to accept any kind of point against Steven Gerrard?

ziggy

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[Jackass]

Davei141 wrote:

What a load of crap. Wayne rooney is an amazing player, he was hyped so much and has lived up to that, what more can you ask for. You can judge hes not one of greatest of all time and hes 18, good job, they said he could be the new pele not that he WAS the new pele.

No, i believe he was touted, from a lot of the media as the new pele, i also acknowledged he's a superb player, but i was making the point of ridiculos hype surrounding English players, comparing him to the greatest player to ever kick a football in the history of the game is laughable.
He's 18, so he can't be judged yet in peles standards?

Pele, aged 17, carrying a knee injury, made his world cup debut in '56, and stunned the tournament, also scored six goals, including 2 in the final for brazils first ever world cup win. Wayne who?

Gerrard not in the same league as keane? You having a laugh or what? and you dare say you aint got green tinted glasses. you choose a game where liverpool played crap vs united and base it on that. Im not saying gerrard is better or worse, but a rediculous statement like that is bull.

I do dare say i don't have green tinted glasses Liverpool played crap because Keane burried gerrard alive, and without him they can't fuction. (RE: firsat half Vs Second half CL final).

The english players are good, very good. you can dislike them because of the hype all you want, but the fact remains they have a great set of players.

I don't dislike them at all, and i know they have great players...but you keep missing my point, i am talking about the list of world best players here, and how English players are completely over hyped by the media both in the UK and on the continent, so people think they're actually better than they are. (C'mon...look at some of the names on there!!) I'm also saying world class Irish players such as Keane, Duff and Given could never be considerd for those kind of prizes because of their unfashionable footballing nationality, regardless of dominationg the same leauge as the English lads, and regardless of skill.

I'm also very suprised how you can say Green tinted glasses, more than one player can be world class (eg Given and Cech), and Keane being one of the best players on the planet in his prime is a no-brainer..i would consider that a undisputeable fact. So why can't these players win any awards on the international stage?

Your basing that on all last years performances, theres been plenty of times where hes outplayed keane and vieira. At anfield this year gerrard tore arsenal apart. Vs chelsea at anfield we totally out played chelsea. Vs united both times this year liverpool were crap, thats right, the whole team.

We? perhaps you just have red tinted glasses? Also see my point above as to why Liverpool can't function against united.....his name is Roy Keane.

(i would also just like to point out i don't support any premiership team in particular...i just follow the leauge in general, so it's not a UTD are better than liverpool, or Chelsea this, Arsenal that. thing...i just think Irish players reputations are completely played down mostly by ourselves, and then that carrys over to the UK and so on, where as England big themselves up so much, their players are considerd worldclass, even though a lot of them are just good or mediocre)

Seaneh

DubGuy wrote:

Well what im saying is that Given has been the best g'keeper in supposedly the best leauge in the world for about 4 years running...and now that cech is in the leauge there is a another world class keeper, but i wouldn't consider him by any margin better than Given...both on a par, but not better.



Obviously everyone can debate who they think is the best player in the world in any given season, for me Keane was unparaleld that season, you may say the same about Redondo, but my point is no matter how good Keane plays, by nationality, he could never have won the award....I don't know why you are both saying green tinted glasses, because i'm not...infact that's the very thing im talking about...if we call an Irish player world class its "green tinted glasses" how could an Irish player be world class!".... that's the my whole point Keane, Duff, Given are (were?) world class!
One of the most sucsessfull managers in club football history called Roy Keane the best player he's ever had...Duff will get his game ahead of the likes of Joe Cole who is on the list of the best players in the world week in week out, there's no comparrison!
Given is a top class goalkeeper no matter what anyone says, and im sure most people would agree the best keeper in premier leauge for years, certainly before cech.

I havn't got green tinted glasses, you've got white tinted glasses, you watch sky sports premier leauge action, you catch England internationals on the BBC, you here Sven GEs comments, and read the papers and believe all the hype, and quite honestly, crap about how good the English players actuallyare. You probably think David Beckham is one of the greatest players in the world, and has a reputation to match his skill...that Wayne Rooney is the new Pele, as was being said all over England in his first season with Everton (Don't get me wrong, he's a superb player, but not one of the greatest off all time) Or that Stephen Gerrard is even in the same leauge as Roy Keane (RE: Liverpool Vs United last season).....

I suppose if we dont even acknowledge our own players, how can we expect the rest of the world to? :rolleyes:

Your wrong, I don't watch sky at all, and yes ireland do have a few world class players and have had in the past.
Brady, McGrath, Keane, Given and duff spring to mind for starters, and yes keane was world class (and still VERY good) but I honestly beilve Redondo was peerless in the rold of holding midefilder and it's no coincidence that REal Madrids collapse as a super power in european football happened immideatly after he left for Milan, he was a total footballs, he had the ability to run for 90 minutes while throwing in last ditched tackles and he also had the vision to make passes other players couldn't, imagine Rino Gattuaso with Denis Bergkamps Footballing brain and you have some idea of how Redondo played for both club and country.

I Despise Beckham and have NEVER rated him as anything more than a clothes horse who is good from bead balls, thats it, in open play he is muck.
Infact I hink that about a lot of players, half of the EPL are over rated (Drogba, Andy Johnson last year, Beattie and 60 odd otehr players too).

I rearly watch the spanish league, I'd rather watch championship football tbh, infact scrap that i'd travle to kildare to watch athlone town away first.

I don't think rooney will be world class to be honest, I don't think his peak is much above his current ability and as for gerrard he is only liverpools 3rd best player behing caragher and alonso.

Stop making presumptions about my oppinions, I don't read tabloids I watch football and decide on that basis.

[Jackass]

Seaneh wrote:

Stop making presumptions about my oppinions, I don't read tabloids I watch football and decide on that basis.

Fair enough...sorry. I was kind of making a general point, i didn't mean to direct it at you personally.

Seaneh

it's ok... I'll forgive you

Jivin Turkey

Seaneh wrote:

I Despise Beckham and have NEVER rated him as anything more than a clothes horse who is good from bead balls, thats it, in open play he is muck. Infact I hink that about a lot of players, half of the EPL are over rated (Drogba, Andy Johnson last year, Beattie and 60 odd otehr players too).

Beckham is a class player, he can whip in as many crosses from open play as he can from dead balls. I also seem to remember him belting in a few long rangers from open play too. He was also never shy of work.

Drogba, Andy Johnsen, and James Beattie dont make up half the EPL, and Id hardly call any of them "overrated". Drogba I would go with unproven. Johnsen is deemed a good player, but people are hardly wetting their pants over him, hence no firm offers to prise him away from Palace. Beattie? I dont remember anybody ever even mentioned him yet alone "rated" him.

Seaneh wrote:

I rearly watch the spanish league, I'd rather watch championship football tbh, infact scrap that i'd travle to kildare to watch athlone town away first.

Marvellous comment from such an obvious football connoisseur.

Seaneh wrote:

I don't think rooney will be world class to be honest, I don't think his peak is much above his current ability

You are right, Rooney "will not be world class". He is already world class. Performances over the last two years have demonstrated that. In the EC and in the PL/CL last year.

To say that a 19 year old will not peak "much above his current ability" is nothing short of idiotic. Even if he somehow didnt improve as a player physically/techincally, he will mature as a man and learn to make better decisions in his conduct on and off the pitch.

As for the whole Gerrard/Keane thing, for people that dont think that Gerrard is "even in the same league" as Keane, open your eyes. Gerrard is almost ten years younger than Keane, and has achieved far more as an individual and in a team sense than Keane had at that age.

Now before people get their knickers in a twist that a bad word was said about Roy Keane, Im not claiming Gerrard is/was/will be better, but that there is little between them. SG is a similar enough style of player to RK (in his day), a little more flash and creative, less defensive and disciplined. Keane might have never have given the ball away, but he never hit double figures in assists and goals year in, year out. They are all trade offs.

Gerrard has had off-field problems for 18 months at this stage. Now that he is settled I would really like to re-address this issue in a year. There will be a different SG this year, demonstrated by an incredible start to the season by him so far.

Seaneh

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Beckham is a class player, he can whip in as many crosses from open play as he can from dead balls. I also seem to remember him belting in a few long rangers from open play too. He was also never shy of work.

Drogba, Andy Johnsen, and James Beattie dont make up half the EPL, and Id hardly call any of them "overrated". Drogba I would go with unproven. Johnsen is deemed a good player, but people are hardly wetting their pants over him, hence no firm offers to prise him away from Palace. Beattie? I dont remember anybody ever even mentioned him yet alone "rated" him.


Marvellous comment from such an obvious football connoisseur.


You are right, Rooney "will not be world class". He is already world class. Performances over the last two years have demonstrated that. In the EC and in the PL/CL last year.

To say that a 19 year old will not peak "much above his current ability" is nothing short of idiotic. Even if he somehow didnt improve as a player physically/techincally, he will mature as a man and learn to make better decisions in his conduct on and off the pitch.

As for the whole Gerrard/Keane thing, for people that dont think that Gerrard is "even in the same league" as Keane, open your eyes. Gerrard is almost ten years younger than Keane, and has achieved far more as an individual and in a team sense than Keane had at that age.

Now before people get their knickers in a twist that a bad word was said about Roy Keane, Im not claiming Gerrard is/was/will be better, but that there is little between them. SG is a similar enough style of player to RK (in his day), a little more flash and creative, less defensive and disciplined. Keane might have never have given the ball away, but he never hit double figures in assists and goals year in, year out. They are all trade offs.

Gerrard has had off-field problems for 18 months at this stage. Now that he is settled I would really like to re-address this issue in a year. There will be a different SG this year, demonstrated by an incredible start to the season by him so far.

I never said that johnson drogba and beattie make up half of the epl they were just examples.

But if you want me to expand then I will.

Rio Ferdinand is highly over rated, englands starting two should be carra and terry by merrit and ability, fact.
Rooney has nowhere near justified the hype around him! he hasn't produced week in week out and in major games over the last two years he has showed flashes, he is also lethargic and ill tempered.
Robert Greene was hailed as a great keeper by a lot of papers/pundits last season for norwich but that is laughable when you look at thier goals against and the amount of mistakes he made.
Andy johnsson WAS praised alot last year, engilsh papers and tv personalitis calling for an international call up based on one season of good form, yet another kevin phillips to be honest.


The Premier League hasn't got enough world class players to be the best league in the world (which is what is commonly claimed by english and irish people, presenters and tabloids) it is still a long way short of Spain and italy as far as techincal ability throughout is concerned.

As for my comment about the spanish league, I simply have no intrest in watching celta vigo and mallorca run around like headless chickens knocking 3 goals each in while the defenders look like lost children. outside of the top 7 cubs there isn't a whole lot to watch and I'd rather watch teams I know about because atleast then I can follow the pregress of young players who's carrears actually intrest me (glen Whelan, Paul Mcshane, Ghrame Stack to name but a few feture irish players).

And as for athone town, yes I would rather watch the team I supported my whole life regradless of current form than watch a super classico match, any day of the week, and it's not stupidity, it's not lack of taste in football it's called loyalty and local pride.

Jivin Turkey

Seaneh wrote:

I never said that johnson drogba and beattie make up half of the epl they were just examples.

But if you want me to expand then I will.

Rio Ferdinand is highly over rated, englands starting two should be carra and terry by merrit and ability, fact.
Rooney has nowhere near justified the hype around him! he hasn't produced week in week out and in major games over the last two years he has showed flashes, he is also lethargic and ill tempered.
Robert Greene was hailed as a great keeper by a lot of papers/pundits last season for norwich but that is laughable when you look at thier goals against and the amount of mistakes he made.
Andy johnsson WAS praised alot last year, engilsh papers and tv personalitis calling for an international call up based on one season of good form, yet another kevin phillips to be honest.

Most of these players are rated in England, not outside. Its not like anyone here is claiming that some of these are the best in the world. I wouldnt call it "overrated". They are rated at a reasonale level in terms of what they have achieved in football. What do you mean by "overrated"?

People like Johnsen are rated highly in England on the back of TWO great seasons with an unfashionable club. What more do you want from a player who is 23/24? Players like Philips deserve to be "rated", he has got goals at every club hes played for.

Seaneh wrote:

The Premier League hasn't got enough world class players to be the best league in the world (which is what is commonly claimed by english and irish people, presenters and tabloids) it is still a long way short of Spain and italy as far as techincal ability throughout is concerned.

Most people claim that it is in the top three, which it clearly is based on the performances of their sides in Europe. There is as many world class players in it than in the other "big" leagues. There is no doubt that some players may lack the technical ability in comparison to foreign leagues, but football is about a lot more than techinque.

The only people I ever really see terming it "the best in the world" are Sky, who obviously are going to talk up their product, and kids.

Seaneh wrote:

As for my comment about the spanish league, I simply have no intrest in watching celta vigo and mallorca run around like headless chickens knocking 3 goals each in while the defenders look like lost children. outside of the top 7 cubs there isn't a whole lot to watch and I'd rather watch teams I know about because atleast then I can follow the pregress of young players who's carrears actually intrest me (glen Whelan, Paul Mcshane, Ghrame Stack to name but a few feture irish players).

Apologies, I thought you were having a pop at the standard of the league. As in "it doesnt interest me because its crap".

Seaneh wrote:

And as for athone town, yes I would rather watch the team I supported my whole life regradless of current form than watch a super classico match, any day of the week, and it's not stupidity, it's not lack of taste in football it's called loyalty and local pride.

Again apologies, obviously one would prefer to watch their own side over another, whatever the league, I didnt know you followed Athlone, I thought you were using this a way to knock the Spanish league.

Davei141

Stekelly wrote:

He tore them apart yes, but not from midfield, he was playing as a second striker in that game.


The fact of it is Gerrard is athis best when breaking past the strikers or playing in behind them. He hasnt got the defensive ability to play the holding role. The same can be said of Lampard. It doesnt make them bad players, they just arent defensive players which is why you need a holding player like Alonso/ Hamann at Liverpool or Makalele at Chelsea. It is also blatently obvious when you watch England with SGE idiocy in persisting with Gerrard/Lampard midfield.

Theres no defensive players in Englands midfield and decent teams stream through them like their not there. Any weaknesses with England CB pairing and they will get mauled. Beckham/Lampard/Gerrard and a left winger is not a midfield to win competitions with. Individually they are very good players but together the defense is left horribley exposed.

I dont disagree one bit, but when people go on about leagues and patches when theyre not even the same type player its just getting digs in at players.

Draupnir wrote:

This thread reminds me of the old Soccer forum. Whats the point in this discussion since Dave is quite obviously unwilling to accept any kind of point against Steven Gerrard?

Would you like to read over my posts again? And by the way i dont see anyone giving keane less than god status, so whats your point?

Jivin Turkey wrote:

As for the whole Gerrard/Keane thing, for people that dont think that Gerrard is "even in the same league" as Keane, open your eyes. Gerrard is almost ten years younger than Keane, and has achieved far more as an individual and in a team sense than Keane had at that age.

Now before people get their knickers in a twist that a bad word was said about Roy Keane, Im not claiming Gerrard is/was/will be better, but that there is little between them. SG is a similar enough style of player to RK (in his day), a little more flash and creative, less defensive and disciplined. Keane might have never have given the ball away, but he never hit double figures in assists and goals year in, year out. They are all trade offs.

Gerrard has had off-field problems for 18 months at this stage. Now that he is settled I would really like to re-address this issue in a year. There will be a different SG this year, demonstrated by an incredible start to the season by him so far.

Agree 110%.

dubguy wrote:

No, i believe he was touted, from a lot of the media as the new pele, i also acknowledged he's a superb player, but i was making the point of ridiculos hype surrounding English players, comparing him to the greatest player to ever kick a football in the history of the game is laughable.

Pele, aged 17, carrying a knee injury, made his world cup debut in '56, and stunned the tournament, also scored six goals, including 2 in the final for brazils first ever world cup win. Wayne who?

I guess you missed rooneys euro 2004, absolutely awesome before he got injured. 4 games and 4 goals, not to bad for his first tournament in comparison to the greatest footballer ever now is it?

I do dare say i don't have green tinted glasses Liverpool played crap because Keane burried gerrard alive, and without him they can't fuction. (RE: firsat half Vs Second half CL final).

When liverpool had a run of victories vs united did gerrard 'bury' keane? No he didnt, liverpool played well. When arsenal beat united does anyone ever say vieira buried keane? Did makelele bury him last year?

I don't dislike them at all, and i know they have great players...but you keep missing my point, i am talking about the list of world best players here, and how English players are completely over hyped by the media both in the UK and on the continent, so people think they're actually better than they are. (C'mon...look at some of the names on there!!) I'm also saying world class Irish players such as Keane, Duff and Given could never be considerd for those kind of prizes because of their unfashionable footballing nationality, regardless of dominationg the same leauge as the English lads, and regardless of skill.

Yeah they are over rated and over hyped, but still great players as youve pointed out, i agree. I dont think we should care if we are on a list as meaningless as that fifa list.

We? perhaps you just have red tinted glasses? Also see my point above as to why Liverpool can't function against united.....his name is Roy Keane.

I dont think you need any tints in your glasses to see how good gerrard is. As i said before, when liverpool had a run of victories against united was the reason united couldnt function gerrard? no it wasnt, the TEAM played great.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Big Ears

ziggy67 wrote:

IMO Man Utd play well when Scholes plays well, not Keane. *

using your little theory Man United would be a relegation side the last two years .

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

eirebhoy

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Beckham is a class player, he can whip in as many crosses from open play as he can from dead balls. I also seem to remember him belting in a few long rangers from open play too. He was also never shy of work.

Beckham is good but certainly doesn't deserve to be listed in the best 55 players in the world. Celtic's new signing, Nakamura, is just as good imo. Better free kick taker too according to Phillipe Troussier.

Jivin Turkey

eirebhoy wrote:

Beckham is good but certainly doesn't deserve to be listed in the best 55 players in the world. Celtic's new signing, Nakamura, is just as good imo. Better free kick taker too according to Phillipe Troussier.

Come on Eirebhoy, how many times have you seen Nakamura? As for free kicks, I usually take everything Phillipe Troussier says as gospel particularly about a player that he has never coached. Beckham is definitely one of the best free-takers at the top level of European football today.

Beckham has been a complete match winner on the big stage more times than I care to remember. Im not saying hes the best in the world, but he is pure world class, as much as it might pain people to admit.

People seem to have a problem with him because of his image, if he looked like Luke Chadwick and had the build of Wayne Rooney Im sure every one would say he was amazing. He's a dislikable guy, I dont deny it, but there is no doubting the mans talent.

Slash/ED

Yes there is.

A very good player, no doubt, but not one of the worlds best.