aaarrrggggg help

pokerireland

okay yesterday i was driving home and as i was about to turn into my house (country road) a guy coming round a bend at speed smacked into me, the gardai were called and they said it was a 50/50 as i was in the middle of the road even though its a small country road. I drive a 01 Bora and the whole front of it is in bits like w shape and also the radiator is burst. what i want to know is how much do you reckon (roughly) it would cost me to get it fixed as i dont want to go through insurance.

His sh*tty little ford fiesta 90 only had a small dent and broken light

ambro25

So much about tough VWs, eh?

Only joking - feel very sorry for you, really, as a 50/50 must feel pretty much like [beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep] without lube.

I won't hazard a €-figure, but have you considered that it may turn out to be more expensive to sort it privately (especially if you need to de-stress the frame itself) than what the 'extra' in insurance premium for losing some of your NCB would cost you?

bazz26

pokerireland wrote:

okay yesterday i was driving home and as i was about to turn into my house (country road) a guy coming round a bend at speed smacked into me, the gardai were called and they said it was a 50/50 as i was in the middle of the road even though its a small country road. I drive a 01 Bora and the whole front of it is in bits like w shape and also the radiator is burst. what i want to know is how much do you reckon (roughly) it would cost me to get it fixed as i dont want to go through insurance.

His sh*tty little ford fiesta 90 only had a small dent and broken light

Sorry to hear about this but asking us how much it costs is like asking how long is a piece of string.

Best thing to do is bring it to a professional crash repair centre and they will give you an estimate of how much it costs to put right. Bring it to more than one place to compare prices. A main dealer will probably charge you the most.

Rodney Trotter

pokerireland wrote:

................................. the gardai were called and they said it was a 50/50 as i was in the middle of the road even though its a small country road.................................

Don't accept the opinion (that's all it is) of a lazy Garda. They cannot make such a call and sounds like they just wanted to wash their hands of the situation. There's nothing stopping you suing the Fiesta driver for all your damage. Normally, then, your and his Insurance companies will determine the liability.


If a crash ends up 50:50, then each driver must pay for the other's damage, i.e. he must repair your car and visa versa.

Eoin

Rodney Trotter wrote:

Don't accept the opinion (that's all it is) of a lazy Garda. They cannot make such a call and sounds like they just wanted to wash their hands of the situation. There's nothing stopping you suing the Fiesta driver for all your damage. Normally, then, your and his Insurance companies will determine the liability.

Would the insurance company not take the word of a Guard as something to go by - at least an indication of who was at fault? And, to me, it sounds like he was right, not being lazy. I don't think you have any real basis to make remarks like that from what little information is in the original post.

Still, I do agree with trying to claim on the other drivers insurance if you think it may be worth your while. First of all, get a quote for your car so you know where you're at.

Also, check your policy though to see if you have NCB protection - normally up to 2 or 3K. This may cover the damage done, and not affect your premium.

Rodney Trotter wrote:

If a crash ends up 50:50, then each driver must pay for the other's damage, i.e. he must repair your car and visa versa.

So if a fiesta and ferrari were in a 50/50 crash, the fiesta driver would have to pay to get the ferrari fixed? I am not sure about this, I think in a 50:50 you just pay your own damages.

commited

I thought in a 50/50 the insurance companies calculted the total cost of the claim and split it in half.

Rodney Trotter

The reason for each party paying the other party's claim is both cars are expected to have 3rd part Insurance cover, (also both parties will then be caught for loss of NCB.) Should one party not have Comprehensive, and someone else was at fault (even less than 100%), he should be compensated for his loss.

Insurance co.s will not take the "word" of a Garda. Would you? I wouldn't. It has no binding force in law.

The Garda's job is to instigate the necessary prosecution in such an incident, and is mandatory is the event of injury. Should a prosecution follow then the decision of the Court will determine liability. Otherwise it's up to the Ins Co. assessors to arbritrate and negotiate a settlement.

Best of luck, BTW, but remember it's only a car.

prospect

Yep,

Insurance companies will decide blame themselves based on information submitted by both parties. Garda was more concerned if either broke a road law.

From the sounds of the damage, you are in the region of several thousand euros to repair your car. So, I would claim on insurance, and let them decide who is liable.

Regardless, sorry to hear about your car, and I hope it all works out.

Eoin

Rodney Trotter wrote:

Insurance co.s will not take the "word" of a Garda. Would you? I wouldn't. It has no binding force in law.

The Garda's job is to instigate the necessary prosecution in such an incident, and is mandatory is the event of injury. Should a prosecution follow then the decision of the Court will determine liability. Otherwise it's up to the Ins Co. assessors to arbritrate and negotiate a settlement.

Unless there are witnesses, then the Garda is the only impartial party, and an officer of the law. So yes, I would take his word ahead of the other parties.

Rodney Trotter

BUt, eoin, the Garda is not a witness?

Insurance companies will not stand by any confessions made by people at the scene of an accident. Anything the Garda might have taken down is irrelevent, especially as he's too lazy to instigate a prosecution. Officer of the Law he may be but he is not allowed determine blame or administer Justice.

The correct procedure now is for the OP to contact his Insurance company and state he wants to make a claim against the other party. He will then have to submit an Accident Report Form, following receipt of which his Ins Co will decide if there's a case for the claim.

The other party will be asked for his version of events, following which arbritation between the 2 Ins Companies will decide the proportion of blame. Should there be noi resolution then the case will go to court. As it's the Insurance co making the claim, it will not cost the Insured anything extra to go this far.

Downside is a loss of NCB and, being Ireland, the fact you were in an accident will mean no other company will touch you for 5 years (With or without NCB protection.)

Do contact your insurance company. Who's to say the other party will not develope whiplash and be looking for €20k? If he does, and you have not informed your Ins Co., they could walk away and leave you without cover.

murphaph

Rodney Trotter wrote:

Best of luck, BTW, but remember it's only a car.

Indeed, the a$$hole could have been driving something that would have killed you. Really sorry to hear about your troubles though-such a pain.

To those who jest about VW toughness, they're as tough as anything else on the road these days, modern cars are supposed to collapse the area outside of the passenger cabin in a collision-to save your a$$ and sacrifice the car. I personally think this is a pretty good idea!

saobh_ie

The Gardaí no longer get involved in vechile collisions, that Garda should have just said he won't comment instead of fifty fifty nonsense.

You were turning into property, you manouvered when the road was clear, there was nothing coming the other way and I assume there wasn't any road markings or signs prohibiting you from making that manouver.

Then a vechile drives around a blind corner at a speed and runs into you.

The one overriding obligation of vechile operators is to be be able to stop in the distance that they see to be clear on thier own side of the road. He wasn't, he took a leap into the unknown coming around that corner. That's easily careless driving, dangerous driving at worst.

A friend of mine was walking home down a smilar lane one night after a night out and a taxi driver came pelting around the bend and my friend had to drag his girlfriend into a bush... errr... yeah... to avoid being run over. hehe

You will most likley win your costs when you claim against the guys insurance company. If he disputes it however it will take a decade or two unfortunatly, but in the mean time, you know where he lives...

Why do people do that, hand over thier addresse's after an accident. It's insane.

And Muph, your NCAP car will only collaspe if another NCAP hits it, head on with a preNCAP car your car will be like a hot knife through butter.

stag39

report it to your insurance.....!!! to touch on what saobh_ie said....what if a family were walking down the road with kids instaed of you....what would the guards say then...!!!!!!!

i hope you have the fiesta drivers details...!!!

best of luck with it all... and hope everything turns up rosy for you!!

murphaph

saobh_ie wrote:

And Muph, your NCAP car will only collaspe if another NCAP hits it, head on with a preNCAP car your car will be like a hot knife through butter.

What? I assume when you say NCAP, you mean a vehicle with crumple zones seeing as many modern cars have miserably low NCAP scores even though they have crumple zones?, in which case both cars (assuming head on collision) with crumple zones will crumple, but a car with crumple zones hitting another car without them will also crumple, while the non-crumple zone equipped car will not crumple*

*Obviously there will be a degree of deformation in any collision, but not deformation by design (crumple) which absorbs significant amounts of the energy, resulting in less energy affecting the vehicle occupants.

I've seen pictures of head on collisions where both vehicles looked ok, but where both drivers died because although the cars decellerated from 60-0 in an instant, the occupants and the brains inside their skulls, did not.

ambro25

pokerireland wrote:

His sh*tty little ford fiesta 90 only had a small dent and broken light

@Pokerireland - just a thought in passing: it wasn't in/around D16 last night at about 5:40-ish or thereabouts, was it?

Because I had a full-blown, size-A, pure grad @sshole in a sh*tty little black Fiesta (3 'big' lads, late 20s) behind my car for a while and I was terrified ('takes a lot, btw) as the man was driving like an absolute lunatic - as in, about 5 ins from my back bumper @50 kph, locking back wheels everytime he hit the brakes, etc, etc... If it was and you need some 'circumstancial' evidence, pm me

528i

This accident happened on a small country road, but if you're still adamant on framing those people you had delayed at a walking pace yesterday evening, at least learn how to spell the word 'circumstantial' first.

Lots of conjecture and blatantly incorrect assertions regarding 50:50 blame, untrustworthy Garda, older cars having safer NCAP ratings etc. 90% of contributions thus far have been made by 13yrs olds who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about mr. thread starter.

At a minimum that car will cost €2,500 to fix, even by a disreputable backyard chancer.

murphaph

528i wrote:

....people you had delayed at a walking pace....

Hmmmm, he says was travelling at 50km/h in a built up area, seems pretty sensible to me seeing as that was likely the speed limit an' all. Have you heard the british tv road safety campaign slogan, "it's thirty for a reason"? The reason being that hitting a child at 30 mph (~50km/h) and they are 75% likely to survive but hit them at 40 mph and they are 75% likely to die. "Delayed" you say? :rolleyes:

AMurphy

pokerireland wrote:

okay yesterday i was driving home and as I was about to turn into my house (country road) a guy coming round a bend at speed smacked into me, ....

His sh*tty little ford fiesta 90 only had a small dent and broken light

I wouldn't settle for 50/50 verdict either.

You say the other car was at speed, excessive speed I'll assume. how come the guard did not determine this?.
Any skid marks, if so, how long, good indicator as to the actual speed
Did the cop note these, if not he needs a kick in the butt and wake up.

I'll assume that the exit is on the turn, so dangerous by design. Any road signs to that effect. Excessive speed + disregarding signs is not paying attention to ones driving.

Is the other party familiar with this road or a one time passer by. If s/he knows the area and road, then he should have known better regarding the dangers of the junction/exit in question.

byw, I nearly got t-boned at an exit on the inside of a turn on a narrow country road. Someone going too fast in a Range Rover, even for the straight sections of the same road. I had to use the same exit every day and it scared the daylights out of me, even before the incident, as I could see how dangerous it could be. Fortunately, I had taken to accelerating out of there like a bat out of hell, so I just got my tail across the road and out of the way.

Still it gives you an appreciation of how the irish gov and County Co's are letting drivers swing in the breeze and forcing increased driving costs upon the general driving public. It does not take a whole lot to remove obstructions.

ambro25

528i wrote:

This accident happened on a small country road, but if you're still adamant on framing those people you had delayed at a walking pace yesterday evening, at least learn how to spell the word 'circumstantial' first.

Ahhh, Mister 528i, troller extraordinaire, what more to expect I ask you... :rolleyes:

You obviously don't get around much D16 in your Panzer, for you would know that a fair few roads in the not-so-built-up areas of this particular portion of Dublin may indeed be considered "small country roads" (which I understand as about two-cars wide with a couple of inches to spare, and no road markings).

I did not offer to frame anyone, nor ever would (although I would make a notable exception -to confirm the rule, naturally- for you 528i ), merely enquired as to whether the downright dangerous driver, who happened to be driving very erratically in a 90-D black Fiesta last night, could have been the person involved, in which case I would be more than happy to provide an affidavit to the OP for he to do as he pleases in his situation, rather than engage in a fruitless phone-a-ton with report-a-528i...sorry, TrafficWatch.

I do not ordinarily drive anywhere @ 50 kph and have the points history and metal plates to prove the point, if I ever needed to (can't see why)... That is, unless some eejit behind me is driving so erratically that -putting 17 years of international driving and a few hundreds of thousands of miles later behind me- I'll get right down to the limit and drive as smoothly/defensively and therefore very predictably for that eejit to not rear-end my car.

If that (driving adapted to circumstances) and 50 kph constitutes 'walking pace and delaying (scumb@gs)' for you 528i, well... you're just my kind of Beemer driver

Judging from a fair few of your earlier posts, though, I do understand how your much-less-than-friendly attitude towards any other road users than yourself can fuel your trolls and generate such poor posts' content... and I commiserate.

Sincerely yours,
ambro25

pokerireland

AMurphy wrote:

I wouldn't settle for 50/50 verdict either.

You say the other car was at speed, excessive speed I'll assume. how come the guard did not determine this?.
Any skid marks, if so, how long, good indicator as to the actual speed
Did the cop note these, if not he needs a kick in the butt and wake up.

I'll assume that the exit is on the turn, so dangerous by design. Any road signs to that effect. Excessive speed + disregarding signs is not paying attention to ones driving.

Is the other party familiar with this road or a one time passer by. If s/he knows the area and road, then he should have known better regarding the dangers of the junction/exit in question.

byw, I nearly got t-boned at an exit on the inside of a turn on a narrow country road. Someone going too fast in a Range Rover, even for the straight sections of the same road. I had to use the same exit every day and it scared the daylights out of me, even before the incident, as I could see how dangerous it could be. Fortunately, I had taken to accelerating out of there like a bat out of hell, so I just got my tail across the road and out of the way.

Still it gives you an appreciation of how the irish gov and County Co's are letting drivers swing in the breeze and forcing increased driving costs upon the general driving public. It does not take a whole lot to remove obstructions.

yes the skid marks were measured at 40ft with the bend being about 60ft from the crash point, when the garda were called i thought this would be focal point but the garda really seemed to side with the other fella and made the point of my position on the road about ten times while not once commenting on his speed.

another poster remarked that if it were a kid standing there (not unlikely) they would have been killed. This is the point i made to the garda but he fobbed me off, this really annoyed me as there's loads of kids around here incuding my own little sister ...btw i got a qoute and its not as bad as i originally thought. i need a new bumper, grill and radiator and was told it would be around the €1000 mark

528i

another poster remarked that if it were a kid standing there (not unlikely) they would have been killed. This is the point i made to the garda but he fobbed me off, this really annoyed me as there's loads of kids around here incuding my own little sister ...

so your sister usually stands the middle of the road ?

I'd have to side with the expert opinion of the gardai in this matter.

ps. you really put the effort into that post ambro, if you concentrated even half as much on being courteous to other road users we wouldn't be having this conversation.

RicardoSmith

Rodney Trotter - has it correct, ignore the rest.

Despite the fact I was T-Boned and stationary when hit, when I had an accident and it was judged 50/50 I had to pay my own costs. Not each others. Guard tried to make out it was my fault, (mate of the OP) but I laid down the law to the insurance company and they had to get an assessor in to determine blame. I got mine fixed myself, about 2K's worth, but in the end I wished I just gone through the insurance, as they screwed around my premium anyway. At least if I'd made them pay for the repair I could have justified the increased premiums.

AMurphy

pokerireland wrote:

yes the skid marks were measured at 40ft with the bend being about 60ft from the crash point, when the garda were called i thought this would be focal point but the garda really seemed to side with the other fella and made the point of my position on the road about ten times while not once commenting on his speed.

.......

40 Ft?. Generated some tyre smoke I presume?. Whenever I skid here, 10-15ft, I get lots of burning rubber smoke.
What was the surface, billard table smooth blacktop & wet or a good grippy type of surface & dry, or loose grit after the annual Loose Chips application by the local Co. Co.
Tyres on the other car, (slicks like mine) or good grippers (like I should have).

Anyway, all of you take your car out in such conditions and try generate a 40ft skidmark see how fast you have to be going and report back.
Based on my vehicle and dry concrete, that would require a slam on at 40+mph and I'd say closer to 50~60mph about here. But your roads & weather are different.

btw, it was generally accepted that a driver in a skid was not "in control of the vehicle". Might want to re-check that item.
True you may have been on teh wrong side of the road, how many times do we encounter objects on the opposite side of the road.
You could have come to sudden halt while traveling in the same direction as the car that hit you, maybe to stop for one of those kids you speak of...
Or the road may be close to stopped to take a turn cause the road is too narrow to turn from the correct lane.
So if you were rear ended or stopped facing correctly, how would it differ. What speed were you doing anyway?.
I presume you were on the ourside of a turn, (larger radius), taking a left turn into a concealed driveway, or were you on the blind inside of a sharp turn?.

Get some (good) professional advice. I think you have a better case than you think, no matter what the cop says.
but then again, I have read some (I think) crazy verdicts in the papers, so I'd expect anything.

ambro25

528i wrote:

ps. you really put the effort into that post ambro,

Why, thank you. Always nice to know the effort's been appreciated.

528i wrote:

if you concentrated even half as much on being courteous to other road users we wouldn't be having this conversation

and that would stem from...?

prospect

Sounds to me like the Guard new the fiesta driver!

A 40 foot skid mark!!!!! Either he was belting it, or his tyres were bald, either of which puts the blame on him.


@528i, Maybe he meant his sister could have been in the process of crossing the road! I am trying to decide if you really are a troll, or if you are just a bit, em, simple.

pokerireland

prospect wrote:

Sounds to me like the Guard new the fiesta driver!

A 40 foot skid mark!!!!! Either he was belting it, or his tyres were bald, either of which puts the blame on him.


@528i, Maybe he meant his sister could have been in the process of crossing the road! I am trying to decide if you really are a troll, or if you are just a bit, em, simple.

I know i couldn't believe it the way he sided with him so much. one more question i rang the fiesta driver today and he says his damage will total to €1500, so i suggested he might be better off buying a new car (he wants to send me the bill). Is not silly to spend 1500 doing up a 90 fiesta which is surely worth less than that??

prospect

`@ pokerireland,

seriously, I would ring my insurance company right now and let them look after it.
They will do thier absoloute best to avoid paying his damages, and they are more experienced in these matters than you or any of us.

prospect

Actually, considering the evidence given so far:

You say the distance from the bend to the point of impact was 60feet. This is equal to 18.3 meters.
You also stated it was a small country road. So from stopped position, you would require about 3 seconds, at the absoloute maximum, to cross over. But you state he hit the front of your car, so at most you could have only been 1 third of the way across the road, i.e. 1 second.
So, if the fiesta wasn't in sight when you began the manouvre, he would have had to be travelling at 65.9kmh, (not accounting for the fact he was slowing down for 12.2m).

So at the very least, you could prove that the fiesta was travelling in excess of 15Kmh over the legal speed limit on that road.

528i

the fiesta had to slow down for the corner, fiestas arent fast, theres no way he could have accelerated back over the speed limit again in 18meters. sounds like our subject saw him coming and decided to cross over anyway. mere speculation as I say, but the word of a garda at the scene means more than that of a layman (who allows children play in the middle of the road)

case closed.

prospect

528i wrote:

the fiesta had to slow down for the corner, fiestas arent fast, theres no way he could have accelerated back over the speed limit again in 18meters. sounds like our subject saw him coming and decided to cross over anyway.

Well if this is the case, then the OP is completely in the wrong, regardless of the spped the fiesta was travelling.

Although, it could have been a long sweeping bend, that did not require the fiesta to slow down below his 65Kmh speed. Also, seeing as this was a country road, the hedges could have been overgrown (as this is currently the season you cannot cut hedges (i think)) and this would have impeded the view...

We need some feedback from the OP.

LostinBlanch

You have to think carefully about the whole situation. The OP could very well be putting in a claim against you anyway, claiming for whiplash etc. Do not believe everything he says.

My aulfella had someone crash into his (legally) parked van, she would have driven away but for a guard who saw the whole thing. Anyway she was sweet as pie to the aulfella and paid for the damage etc. But when he went to renew his insurance for the next year, she had claimed against him and was paid by his insurance company! He only managed to get it sorted out by going back to the guard and explaining what had happened and getting the insurance company to contact him as a witness.

So be careful. I'm not saying that you should go to your insurance company but be aware that he may be doing so and you mightn't know until it is too late. He may have people advising him to do this, you never know.

Anyway good luck with it.