How are southernern members of the PSNI perceived?

murphaph

I was minded from another thread to wonder how nationalists & unionists, republicans and loyalists and those who care neither way perceive members of the PSNI who hail from the south?

I've never met any obviously southern members of the PSNI, has anybody else?

It's funny that many northern nationalists won't join the PSNI but tons of folks from here have no problem with the idea of joining, especially given the higher pay. I now 5 people who have currently applied to both the Gardai and PSNI and would take whichever one they were offered.

tomMK1

It's funny that many northern nationalists won't join the PSNI but tons of folks from here have no problem with the idea of joining,

i wouldnt say its funny, though its just as funny if so many people from down here join how you havent met any. Maybe one of your 5 friends will get in and they'll let you know.

murphaph

tomMK1 wrote:

i wouldnt say its funny, though its just as funny if so many people from down here join how you havent met any. Maybe one of your 5 friends will get in and they'll let you know.

So no opinion of relevance to the thread then.

tomMK1

well, besides how you class it funny that people from here, with no knowledge of th enorth nor understanding of what the RUC have done, wish to join the PSNI when northerners dont. - so to that I say its not funny .. its just that people from down here wish to wear a uniform, either guard or PSNI. they dont understand (or dont care) about the PSNI/RUCs chequered past whereas norhtern nationalists are too aware of it.

murphaph

tomMK1 wrote:

they dont understand (or dont care) about the PSNI/RUCs chequered past whereas norhtern nationalists are too aware of it.

Indeed, the past. Perhaps it's a very good thing that southerners join up without the preconvictions you speak of. They'll enter the force as unbiased people who just want to be police officers.

tomMK1

it would be lovely if things would happen that way, but a few catholics joining the PSNI wont change them into a decent police force.

FTA69

Well Republican minded people would dislike them just as much as they would any other pig in the PSNI, where they are from or what religion they are is immaterial, at the end of the day they are members of an armed force which continues to oppress people, which maintains a Special Branch that is still up to its dirty tricks.

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote:

Well Republican minded people would dislike them just as much as they would any other pig in the PSNI...

Is this the new definition of "Republican" - closed-minded, prejudiced and abusive?

murphaph

FTA69 wrote:

Well Republican minded people would dislike them just as much as they would any other pig in the PSNI

You don't care much for law and order, do you?

FTA69 wrote:

where they are from or what religion they are is immaterial, at the end of the day they are members of an armed force which continues to oppress people

So if the force was 100% Colms from the Falls and Ciarans from the Bogside, you'd still be claiming it was a tool of oppression of the poor downtrodden masses. That gives us an insight into your real problem with the PSNI-that they're a police force! By the way, most police forces in the world are armed. It's uncommon for them not to be and in sh!tholes like NI corpo estates where any excuse for an 'oul riot is good enough I would want to be armed if I was a police officer too.

FTA69 wrote:

which maintains a Special Branch

Hmmm, seems like lots of police forces, including our dear beloved Garda Siochana maintain a Special Branch

FTA69 wrote:

that is still up to its dirty tricks.

Just your unbiased opinion, I'm sure.

FTA69

You don't care much for law and order, do you?

Oh on the contrary, I'm all for law and order. But when the "law" and its enforcers are responsible for frequently breaking the law the whole concept is rather undermined in my eyes.

So if the force was 100% Colms from the Falls and Ciarans from the Bogside, you'd still be claiming it was a tool of oppression of the poor downtrodden masses.

Not necessarily, the PSNI could resemble a respectable police force once the Patten reforms are implemented. However, until they are I don't want anything to do with them. (And neither do the majority of nationalists in the 6 Counties.)

It's uncommon for them not to be and in sh!tholes like NI corpo estates where any excuse for an 'oul riot is good enough I would want to be armed if I was a police officer too.

And the man above lectures me on prejudice!!! I do see where you are coming from though, bloody uppity plebs coming into conflict with the police for all sorts of mad things like asserting their rights.

Hmmm, seems like lots of police forces, including our dear beloved Garda Siochana maintain a Special Branch

Also a body which needs reform, I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on that issue.

Just your unbiased opinion, I'm sure.

And how did bugs appear in our offices in Belfast and in the homes of Derry Republicans? (I'm not talking about termites.)

MrPudding

tomMK1 wrote:

it would be lovely if things would happen that way, but a few catholics joining the PSNI wont change them into a decent police force.

In your opinion that is. I personally think they are a very good police force. In any of my dealings with them I have found them to be helpful, friendly and effective. But then, I don't call them pigs, oppressors, Cathollic haters, accuse them of collusion, keep bringing up problems there have been with the force in the past, refuse to allow that they might change or be impolite and insist on only giving them name rank and serial number.

As has been mentioned in other threads it seems that only a small section of the population has a problem with them.

On the subject of Southerners joining up I think it is great. It is a great police force with is very professional and very well equiped. The training is generally accepted to be of a very high standard. I thin it is a good move.

MrP

murphaph

FTA69 wrote:

And the man above lectures me on prejudice!!! I do see where you are coming from though, bloody uppity plebs coming into conflict with the police for all sorts of mad things like asserting their rights.

Oh drop the Martin Luther King impression. It's a joke for you to suggest that those knackers who hijacked and petrol bombed a brand new, £100,000 translink double-decker bus last week were "asserting their rights". They are hoodlums from knackery housing estates and you know it. Painting an impression of them as anything other than scumbags just makes you look stupid.

What MrP says about them being well funded etc. is very true. I'd say it's a great force to learn to be a police officer given the equipment and training. Probably better than many UK forces and certainly better than the Gardai who don't even enforce basic traffic laws effectively.

catholicireland

It's funny that many northern nationalists won't join the PSNI but tons of folks from here have no problem with the idea of joining,

Tons?! I wouldnt say that man. Got any actual figures?

What MrP says about them being well funded etc. is very true. I'd say it's a great force to learn to be a police officer given the equipment and training. Probably better than many UK forces and certainly better than the Gardai who don't even enforce basic traffic laws effectively.

Probably true (but i wouldnt know), but not very patriotic murphaph!

murphaph

catholicireland wrote:

Tons?! I wouldnt say that man. Got any actual figures?

No figures. I shouldn't have said 'tons'. Should have said that 'it's not seen as a big deal' or something like that.

catholicireland wrote:

Probably true (but i wouldnt know), but not very patriotic murphaph!

What has patriotism got to do with highlighting the Gardai's well known ineffectiveness in enforcing road traffic legislation. One look at the number of pillion passengers being illegaly carried by provisional bike licence holders shows the general attitude to Gardai towards traffic offences. Nobody fears being stopped because the Guards never stop people for this and many other things. The days of saying "sure'n this is a great little country" regardless of whether it actually is or not, are long gone.

FTA69

They are hoodlums from knackery housing estates and you know it.

When did I say otherwise, it is working class people who have to live with anti-social elements in our midst while. As for you labelling housing estates "knackery", I take offense to that murphaph, and your snobbery is all to evident here. First of all "knacker" is a racist term used to describe Travellers, or in your case working -class people. Would you use the term "******" to describe blacks or "faggots" to describe gays? Classist abuse is no more acceptable than racist abuse and you should be ashamed of your despicable comment.

murphaph

FTA69 wrote:

When did I say otherwise, it is working class people who have to live with anti-social elements in our midst while. As for you labelling housing estates "knackery", I take offense to that murphaph, and your snobbery is all to evident here. First of all "knacker" is a racist term used to describe Travellers, or in your case working -class people. Would you use the term "******" to describe blacks or "faggots" to describe gays? Classist abuse is no more acceptable than racist abuse and you should be ashamed of your despicable comment.

They're not working class. They'd be working if they were working class. They're a bunch of dole-bludgers (as the aussies would say) with too much time on their hands, hence the rioting. Have you seen the state of those housing estates? Boarded up windows, disgusting sectarian murals and best of all, rioting including burning out of buses. Would you like to live in one? Didn't think so. :rolleyes:

sceptre

FTA69 wrote:

Well Republican minded people would dislike them just as much as they would any other pig

I dunno about the rest of you but I stopped reading there. If you can't make a post without being deliberately offensive, the opinion in that post isn't worth a monkey's doodah to me.

Please don't reply letting me know how they've offended your moral sensibilities or something in the small enclave of free west Waterford or elsewhere, as that would be nothing to do with the topic really.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Victor

FTA69 wrote:

Well Republican minded people would dislike them just as much as they would any other pig in the PSNI, where they are from or what religion they are is immaterial, at the end of the day they are members of an armed force which continues to oppress people, which maintains a Special Branch that is still up to its dirty tricks.

Sorry, you seem to be mistaken. Dirty tricks are now MI5's job, the PSNI got out of it years ago.

FTA69 wrote:

First of all "knacker" is a racist term

Bigot, you are looking for the word is bigot.

Hydroquinone

FTA69 wrote:

And how did bugs appear in our offices in Belfast and in the homes of Derry Republicans? (I'm not talking about termites.)

Your offices are in Belfast, and you live in Waterford? Wow, that's a hell of a commute.

Sorta kinda nearly on topic - I'm reading Tim Collins' book at the moment. In case the name's not familiar, he was Belfast man who was the commanding officer of the Royal Irish Regiment in the British Army who were out in Iraq and he gave a famous eve of battle speech. Anyway, the soldiers in his regiment came from all over Northern Ireland and the Republic. Fascinating reading for anyone who is interested in how (what some might term as)foreigners might be perceived in a military/police environment

FTA69

Sceptre,

I dunno about the rest of you but I stopped reading there.

That's entirely your perogative sceptre, but don't expect me to have respect for those I believe aren't deserving of it. I notice you don't kick up a fuss about people reffering to Sinn Féin members as scumbags and other such insults.

Victor,

Sorry, you seem to be mistaken. Dirty tricks are now MI5's job, the PSNI got out of it years ago.

The police speical branch always had a hand in running informers and planting bugs, they also liaised with British intelligence organisations on a variety of issues. They all represent the same people as far as I'm concerned.

Bigot, you are looking for the word is bigot.

When used to refer to Travellers it becomes racist as they are a seperate ethnic group. When used agaist the working-class it is indeed bigotry.

Hydroquinine,

Your offices are in Belfast, and you live in Waterford? Wow, that's a hell of a commute.

Ours, as in Sinn Féin's.

A Dub in Glasgo

murphaph wrote:

It's funny that many northern nationalists won't join the PSNI but tons of folks from here have no problem with the idea of joining, especially given the higher pay.

Yep, you would be amazed at how low some folk will go to get some money

sceptre

FTA69 wrote:

That's entirely your perogative sceptre, but don't expect me to have respect for those I believe aren't deserving of it.

I don't expect you to have respect for anything or anyone. Just like anyone else. My expectations are limited to what people post. And bluntly calling all members of any given police force "pigs" in a post makes me think that the post isn't going to offer me anything worthwhile.

I notice you don't kick up a fuss about people reffering to Sinn Féin members as scumbags and other such insults.

You'd be surprised how many of those Sinn Fein or NI threads I give a mere cursory glance due to the standard of posting after a single page or sooner. User doesn't care where people send their own argument down in flames, moderator quick-scans and occasionally relies on reports for and of flaming. Feel free to drop me a PM where someone calls all members of that particular grouping "scumbags" and I might point it out in a post. This one I spotted on my own.

My prerogative as you say. I exercised it.

rsynnott

FTA69 wrote:

Well Republican minded people would dislike them just as much as they would any other pig in the PSNI,

FTA69 wrote:

Classist abuse is no more acceptable than racist abuse and you should be ashamed of your despicable comment.

Abuse of the police doing their job is perfectly acceptable, however...

rsynnott

catholicireland wrote:

Probably true (but i wouldnt know), but not very patriotic murphaph!

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Wilde

And when has telling the truth ever been unpatriotic?

murphaph

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Yep, you would be amazed at how low some folk will go to get some money

Yeah, I hear some awful people have even gone to work in the United Kingdom and happily pay their taxes to HM Treasury to help fund the oppression in 'the 6 counties'. :rolleyes:

segaBOY

Any citizen who claims to be Irish and joins the "PSNI"/RUC, as, an Irishman/Irishwoman, I believe he/she has turned his/her back on his/her country and all of Ireland's ideals. They are joining a bigoted force ultimately run by bigoted people and all the new logos and names in the world won't change that force. Any person wishing to peruse a career in law enforcing should only consider neutral forces, which as it stands on this island, the only neutral force is the Gardaí.

segaBOY

segaBOY wrote:

the only neutral force is the Gardaí.

On that not I believe I am letting myself open to claims of not being a true republican as I accept a "freestater" force, well, in truth, I do accept the Gardaí and Dáil Éireann as I will vote Fianna Fáil and support the peace process as a republican who accepts the Republics institutions.

segaBOY

segaBOY wrote:

Any citizen who claims to be Irish and joins the "PSNI"/RUC, as, an Irishman/Irishwoman, I believe he/she has turned his/her back on his/her country and all of Ireland's ideals. They are joining a bigoted force ultimately run by bigoted people and all the new logos and names in the world won't change that force. Any person wishing to peruse a career in law enforcing should only consider neutral forces, which as it stands on this island, the only neutral force is the Gardaí.

The problem with that view/analysis though is that most people accept the PSNI in NI-Ergo wouldnt it be better to compromise and move away from the extreme analysis and onto the "gradualist" approach that we have now.
IE tough regulation of the force coupled with a gradual improvement of the catholic representation on it.
It will take time, but so will a united Ireland.

MrPudding

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Yep, you would be amazed at how low some folk will go to get some money

And people wonder why it is taking so long to sort out the mess up North?

MrP

catholicireland

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Wilde

And when has telling the truth ever been unpatriotic?

Ha! That Wilde quote (if true, i dont know), is complete nonsence, but not really surprising!

The truth? How do you know for certain the UK police are "better" then the Gardai? You cant say because you saw in on Cop watch on sky one now.