PD's want Dublin port relocated out of Dublin to Balbriggan

jubbly

Its in the Tribune if anyone wants to take a look..

I think its a great idea, the port tunnel could be then used as part of the eastern by pass, it would fund the metro and prevent urban sprawl.

saobh_ie

What on earth would the Balbriggians have to say about it? It also seems to me that it would be a whole bunch of hassle and would cost us a shed load of money. The new port, roads etc would need to be operational before Dublin Port was closed to shipping so where would the money come from to do that? Tax payers?

What's the real benefit anyway? Create a new development in the city center so the uber rich and extremely poor can move in? What about the average person who can't find somewhere to live at the right price?

Admittedly the idea does have some merit, throw a few billion at the NRA and trucks would be able to haul containers out of the port onto the M1 (I think) and then to the M50 fairly sharpish.

Development of that land for residential rather than industrial purposes would be absolutely great though, if done properly it would be a pretty good place to live I reckon, if you could afford the sky high prices.

Lennoxschips

Well then they shouldn't have built the Port Tunnel. And with the money they would have saved from that...eejits

dowlingm

they should concentrate on getting Limerick Port moved to Foynes and the rail line there reopened!

dead air

Last I heard was that Drogheda harbour wanted to relocate itself to a new deep water location north of Balbriggan.

murphaph

The port tunnel could be converted and incorporated into a more extensive metro. London Underground uses a tunnel under the Thames built by Brunel as a pedestrian tunnel originally. Suffice to say it is not going to be boarded up and left regardless of what happens with Dublin Port. I for one have always been in favour of moving the port and realising the great asset it is to have your capital city on the waterfront. The plan has always had merit and the spend on the Port Tunnel isn't good enough grounds not to proceed, nor is union opposition for that matter! If the economy continues to grow at a robust rate then it's a question of when and not if this land is cleared for development.

jubbly

It says in the article that if they relocated the port then it would free up 650 acres at €15million an acre for the city of dublin. Cities like Landon and Sidney have extensive works done on their old port and it would be a grand entrance to the city. It would relieve huge housing waiting lists and fuel the economy.

The port tunnel could still be used as part of the eastern by pass and the average joe would get more use out of it and it would reduce conjestion a huge degree.

edit . i nearly forgot. It would be an excellent site for a new stadium as well. 80,000 seater for all sports

Sarsfield

I'm sure the ESB proposed something similar donkeys years ago. don't ask me why they did, but I'm pretty sure it was them. It sure as hell wasn't Tom Morrisseys idea. But I can imagine the PDs wetting themselves at the thought of all the PPPs.

However, the idea has some merit I suppose, subject to all the usual (or correct) planning processes.

Zaph0d

The option to move the port was considered before the port tunnel was built and rejected. Moving the port seems like the right thing to do now that we need residential building land close to the city so badly. If anyone knows the reasoning behind the decision not to move the port I'd love to see it.

Flukey

I don't think it is realistic or practical. There is a lot of work going on in Balbriggan, including dredging and other work, to improve things. Certainly you could move some traffic out of Dublin to some of the other east coast ports, but I can't see a full move out of Dublin. As it is they have reclaimed a lot of the docklands anyhow and there is a lot of work in progress there. That will achieve some of what people want the port move to achieve. It would be wiser though to spend the money that would be used in a port move to do work elsewhere in the country and develop other ports or do work on other general infrastructure projects.

Zaph0d

Flukey wrote:

It would be wiser though to spend the money that would be used in a port move to do work elsewhere in the country and develop other ports or do work on other general infrastructure projects.

The point is that it would save money to move the port because the land used by the port would be so valuable if zoned residential.

Bluetonic

This may be of interest to some of you.... it's a computer generated image of the Drogheda Port which will be relocated to Bremore in Balbriggan.

Bremore is on the northern edge of Balbriggan between Balbriggan and river Delvin.

http://www.balbriggan.net/bremoreport.htm

jubbly

The point is that moving the port out of Dublin will Generate lots of cash

Bluetonic

jubbly wrote:

The point is that moving the port out of Dublin will Generate lots of cash

No The Point is staying put

dbnavan

Having grown up in Balbriggan, before the new M1, i couldn’t wait to get out of it, it was narrow and just 1 big bottle neck of a town which was smothering to much to allow it to grow or progress,

Now with the new M1 I can actually see a bright future for the town, diverting all the trucks and most Dublin-Belfast traffic from the town, now some spacer has suggested going back to square 1 by putting a port in balbriggan, wasting tax payers money, wasting the fact that we are building the port tunnel to the existing port,

Balbriggan right now has a chance to be a fabulous town but not with a port, plenty of other possibilities though.


That’s my tupence worth
D

Thomond Pk

jubbly wrote:

The point is that moving the port out of Dublin will Generate lots of cash

The cost of moving Dublin Port and rebuilding a completely new port would far exceed the cost of the consideration received for the existing port. Most of the land is held leasehold and all occupiers would be entitled to compensation which would have to be negotiated as CPO legislation couldn't be used because it isn't an infrastructure project, so they could effectively name their own price whilst the port authority would have to pay full price for construction of a new port.

Traffic flow analysis also indicates that the highest number of shipments to the port originates from the N7 and N4 corridors as well as Blanchardstown. The chosen route of the tunnel under construction is flawed and although it is convenient for the M1 and will lead to increased freight flows from N.I. an East West Tunnel from either the N7 or N4 would have been preferable.

This proposal sounds great but critically falls apart on title issues, freight flow origin dynamics and cost, a proper integrated public transport system and specialised investment in ports in Greenore, Drogheda and Arklow would deliver a significantly higher return on both traffic management and economic grounds.

spooydermot

dbnavan wrote:

Having grown up in Balbriggan, before the new M1, i couldn’t wait to get out of it, it was narrow and just 1 big bottle neck of a town which was smothering to much to allow it to grow or progress,

Now with the new M1 I can actually see a bright future for the town, diverting all the trucks and most Dublin-Belfast traffic from the town, now some spacer has suggested going back to square 1 by putting a port in balbriggan, wasting tax payers money, wasting the fact that we are building the port tunnel to the existing port,

Balbriggan right now has a chance to be a fabulous town but not with a port, plenty of other possibilities though.

That’s my tupence worth
D

Having lived in Balbriggan all my life (for better or worse) I look on the port as a mixed blessing.
But to be honest I am hacked off at the moment with the amount of building going on in the town particularly the hotel development in what was the town square, we had finally gotten a new, fairly nice town square to replace the public toilets that represented the town in the past(I kid you not) , and then through some unseen mechanism, planning permission is given to someone who already owns a fair wack of property and business in Balbriggan/Skerries.

This has resulted in the closing of a long standing family run corner shop on the square, and the relocation of the library (and its fantastic community orientated staff) to a small box on the industrial estate, as well as the occasional odd smell coming from the deep excavation of the construction not to mention the continous noise. The point i am dragging myself towards here is that (in agreement with dbnavan) the town has finally pulled itself out of the hole created by the ridiculous amount of traffic slowly bottle necking itsway through on a daily basis, and to be honest while the port would bring more trade into the town, would it be worthwhile enough for local business (and local people) to endure further disruptions to the town life?

I'm not 100% against the idea, but sometimes this kind of progress comes at a price i.e reducing it to a building site...

I mean just the other day someone operating a large machinery destroyed the railway bridge that leads from the Skerries road into Ardgillan park, it's been there for over 100 years, and is a fairly important part of the localitys history.

I know this is beginning to sound very 'this is a local shop....for local people' , and thats not what I'm going for, so I'll leave it there.
[/rant]

Lennoxschips

Zaph0d wrote:

The option to move the port was considered before the port tunnel was built and rejected. Moving the port seems like the right thing to do now that we need residential building land close to the city so badly. If anyone knows the reasoning behind the decision not to move the port I'd love to see it.

It still is the right thing to do, but if they had done it without first building a multi-billion euro port tunnel it would have made much more sense, no?

It's just an example of haphazard governmental decision making as usual.

It's like building a brand new runway and then closing down the airport two years later. The logic is so wrong that it's unbelievable.

Zaph0d

Thomond Pk wrote:

The cost of moving Dublin Port and rebuilding a completely new port would far exceed the cost of the consideration received for the existing port. Most of the land is held leasehold and all occupiers would be entitled to compensation which would have to be negotiated as CPO legislation couldn't be used because it isn't an infrastructure project, so they could effectively name their own price whilst the port authority would have to pay full price for construction of a new port.

So the huge land value would not compensate for the move because the land is not owned by the state or the port company.

Would it be possible for the government to negotiate a rezoning of the port lands in exchange for a massive payoff from the landowners? This is a win-win proposition. If the port remains in place, the landowners will never see the true value of their land realised.

Bluetonic

Not to turn this into a Balbriggan thread but....

spooydermot wrote:

But to be honest I am hacked off at the moment with the amount of building going on in the town particularly the hotel development in what was the town square, we had finally gotten a new, fairly nice town square to replace the public toilets that represented the town in the past(I kid you not) , and then through some unseen mechanism, planning permission is given to someone who already owns a fair wack of property and business in Balbriggan/Skerries.

This has resulted in the closing of a long standing family run corner shop on the square, and the relocation of the library (and its fantastic community orientated staff) to a small box on the industrial estate, as well as the occasional odd smell coming from the deep excavation of the construction not to mention the continous noise.

The development on the square is not meerly a hotel development. There is an extension to the Hotel, a new town hall, an extension to the Library (twice it's size), an underground car park for the hotel and for the public in the town, more retail units, appartments. The square will be put back to a simliar style as it was previously to the work taking place and Balbriggan will be better for it. The man responsible for the work has done a great deal for the town. The old hotel, (The Grand, The Phenoix Arms etc..,) stood vacant for man years and dragged the whole town down....we now have a lovely hotel that is full every weekend, a beautiful resturant, and excellent wedding and conference facilities.

As regards the palnning permission being granted... the actual planning permission was granted to Fingal Co Co to redevelop the Square, if you take a look at the site this is clear.

The planning permission itself is not just for the Square it also contained other areas of the town, the old fire station and Spicers being a part of it. These were also parts of the town that were run down.

The libarary will be back bigger and better and the shop in question was doing less and less business in recent years with the opening of bigger and better shops... Spar etc..,

Personally I'd be more concerned with the amount of housing in the North West of the town.

spooydermot wrote:

I mean just the other day someone operating a large machinery destroyed the railway bridge that leads from the Skerries road into Ardgillan park, it's been there for over 100 years, and is a fairly important part of the localitys history.
[/rant]

##

As for the incident with the bridge well I'm sure it will be repaired fully. The part of the bridge that was damaged is only 25 years old and none of the original structure was damaged. The bridge was raised in the 80s when Dublin Bus needed it to facilitate the 33.

meditraitor

Bluetonic wrote:

This may be of interest to some of you.... it's a computer generated image of the Drogheda Port which will be relocated to Bremore in Balbriggan.

Bremore is on the northern edge of Balbriggan between Balbriggan and river Delvin.

http://www.balbriggan.net/bremoreport.htm

This monstrosity will be the end of balbriggan in my opinion, the area planned for this port is the only decent stretch of beach left in our locality, anyone who has taken a walk across that beach will agree how beatifull it is.... there is no buildings or development anywere along that stretch of beach back as far as the railway lines and it should stay that way.
Another thing is that there is a passage tomb right on the spot were this development is planned(it doesnt look much but is registered and has only been partially investigated in the 70s), can they just dig it up, I really hope not.


http://www.megalithomania.com/show/site/1370

I have looked at these five red dots on the OS map for years now with the intention of visiting them. Finally I made the effort to drive across Dublin and up the coast to make this trip: it's actually more of a pain to drive 15km across Dublin than it is to drive to Sligo!

The GPS reading given here is for the main mound. The GPS readings for all five lounds are O 19663 66002, O 19691 65998, O 19728 65997, O 19780 65979 & O 19821 65910.

This is an amazing location. Sitting on the largest mound and watching the sea crash in below you, totally immersed in the sound of the waves breaking against the rocky shore is a beautiful experience.

500m to the north is the spot where the Delvin River enters the sea. Beyond that is the passage tomb cemetery of Knocknagin (County Meath), the two acting as sentinels to the narrow route inland towards Fourknocks (County Meath) and then Tara beyond that.

To the southeast the twin rocks of Rockabill lie breastlike on the horizon. Further south Lambay Island can be seen again on the horizon.

Of the five mounds the central on is the largest at over 3m tall and 30m across. The other four appear to be satellite tombs to this one. There may have been more to the north of the main mound at one time, but these would have been washed into the sea so we'll never know.

As for development in balbriggan

Spooydermot But to be honest I am hacked off at the moment with the amount of building going on in the town particularly the hotel development in what was the town square, we had finally gotten a new, fairly nice town square to replace the public toilets that represented the town in the past(I kid you not) , and then through some unseen mechanism, planning permission is given to someone who already owns a fair wack of property and business in Balbriggan/Skerries

(comment edited, see town concil members)
This is only the tip of the Iceberg, balbriggan town concil and fingal county council have for the past few years been at the beck and call of the big developers in our town, the increase in housing is something that was needed but their unwillingness to address community needs with facilities such as more schools and sports parks is sickening. Developers have to supply a certain % of green land per residential land, apparently there is ways around this! council permitting.
The public transport issue is another big problem, It has got to the stage were people are travelling back down the train line in their cars to stops like gormanstown just to get a seat on the train for the journey to dublin. and still more houses are being built, the traffic is getting as bad as it was 5/6 years ago before the bypass and I cant see any solutions to what is only going to get worse..

So they can stuff their port up the highest part of their *****

My 2c

dRNk SAnTA

I'm sure balbriggan is a nice place but I hardly think it is more important than the capital city. You might not want it to wreck your lovely beach but i'm sure there are lots of people in balbriggan and many many other towns around ireland who would love the jobs and associated commercial activity that the port would bring.

Developing this sort of thing out of dublin is exactly the sort of step needed which could help go some little bit of the way to slow down the development of all the communter towns around dublin. Not to mention the land where the port was would provide the space for what i feel should be very very high density residential and commercial development close to the city center.

This sort of development has the oppertunity of improving our city's ammenities and hopefully the quality of life of some of its citizens. its the type of forward looking ambition which our country needs more of. yes there are problems but we shouldn't let them get in the way of the greater good.

The port tunnel is not wasted as moving the port would be such a long term plan that it will still be needed for many many years to come and if the entire port moved (unlikely) then it could just form part of the eastern bypass. I'd love if this sort of development could help develop the cities public transport. I understand there would be many difficulties and obsticles but I feel these are the sorts of ambitious plans needed to improve many areas of irish society. (like removing this stupid 'job for life' rubbish with the public servants and making them responsible for their mistakes and their waste of public money).

drrnwbb

as an aside to all this, currently here in helsinki they are relocating the freight parts of the existing harbours out to a new site to the eastern side of the city.

http://www.vuosaarensatama.fi/en/index.html
http://www.hel.fi/ksv/english/projects/vuosaari/index.html


when the new harbour is built in 2008 the city will start to convert the existing harbours into new housing areas. ive seen some bit and pieces on the helsinki city planning website and there is three main areas in the centre that will be freed up because of the move.

1. jätkäsaari (loggerisland) is just west of the city centre. the harbour that is there will be moved out and be replaced with a new city district with tram access. (15000 residents, 6000 workplaces)
info here: http://www2.helsinginsanomat.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20040227IE5
(there are ship building yards in that area aswell - i dont think they are moving though.)
http://www.hel.fi/ksv/english/projects/westharbour_english/

2. kalasatama (fishharbour). this too will be moved out to the new harbour, with the area being converted into housing and office space. the metro line (which is over ground by the point) will have a new stop built there, also a new tram line i think. (15000 residents, 7000 workplaces)
http://www.hel2.fi/ksv/english/projects/kalasatama/index.html (helsinki city planning pages about it all)

3. keski pasila (central pasila). i live about 100m from this area, about 1km long and 300m wide at the moment its a train yard used for access to the harbour mentioned in the previous points. when those areas move out then this area wont be needed by the train freight people. last year and the year before there was an architectural competition to decide what to do there. basically lots of skyscrapers (not huge nyc style ones, just relative to the rest of helsinki they will be tall) - a new metro line coming through here and the existign train station with its 10 platforms will be almost doubled to 18 platforms.
http://www.hel.fi/ksv/english/projects/pasila/index.html

there ya go.

dw

meditraitor

dRNk SAnTA wrote:

I'm sure balbriggan is a nice place but I hardly think it is more important than the capital city. You might not want it to wreck your lovely beach but i'm sure there are lots of people in balbriggan and many many other towns around ireland who would love the jobs and associated commercial activity that the port would bring.
).

If I wanted to live in an industrialised wasteland I would have moved to the docks years ago. As for the jobs, If you havent got a job in ireland nowadays, you dont want one!

Think about it! Construction of this port will require probably 5,000 workers , these will be facilitated by the rapid development of residential properties in balbriggan, another extra 800 jobs, this is a big carott for investors, so they buy the property(investment) pushing the price of property up(forcing another 30% of the first time buyer market out of said market and meaning they have to move elsewhere). to facilitate all this building and labour need, the council drop the ball(as they always do), with infrastructure and community needs being ignored. And all the time people are still travelling to dublin because its not construction jobs that they do, but financial,admin,servises. The port will not have the effect of lowering the quantity of goods being shipped into dublin, it is designed to take drogheda's load and some extra that should have gone to dublin port.
In the mean time balbriggan as it is now has died and in its its place is an industrial town that is used to service a port, plenty of forklift jobs for the youngsters, and plenty of pubs no doubt to drown the sorrows of any poor fcker unlucky enough to be living in a hellhole full of dockworkers and 40foot trucks..or on the other hand if the docks becomes totaly mechanised like antwerp(45% loss of unskilled jobs in the last 5 years) , with maybe only a 1000 jobs going and all the inward flow of workers that came for the constructoin have to look back to dublin for new jobs increasing the load on an already disgracefull public transport system back towards the capital, because as you probably know Ireland is gradually turning into a service economy, so thats were the jobs will be.
Sounds a bit over the top, but look at the big picture
No. Fuck off with your port, me thinks...
NIMBY

spooydermot

Bluetonic wrote:

The square will be put back to a simliar style as it was previously to the work taking place and Balbriggan will be better for it. The man responsible for the work has done a great deal for the town.

the man responsible has lined his pockets, he is an example of another developer with the town council at his beck and call.

The old hotel, (The Grand, The Phenoix Arms etc..,) stood vacant for man years and dragged the whole town down....

Agreed!

The libarary will be back bigger and better and the shop in question was doing less and less business in recent years with the opening of bigger and better shops... Spar etc..,

There are plenty of people, some closly involved with the library who doubt that things will work out as well as promised for the library, but hey that said, I'd love it if things did work out for the library!

I don't think bigger shops are what we need we already have: Tesco, Lidl,Spar *2 , SuperValu (and i hear something about an Aldi in the works? I could be mis-informed) In any case I think Spar is a bad example, its another example of franchise pushing up prices, which I think on the whole Spar is guilty of.

The part of the bridge that was damaged is only 25 years old and none of the original structure was damaged. The bridge was raised in the 80s when Dublin Bus needed it to facilitate the 33.

*clicks fingers* Thats right.....I think I remember that now! not the actual rasining itself, but the the fact that it happened

Bluetonic

spooydermot wrote:

I don't think bigger shops are what we need we already have: Tesco, Lidl,Spar *2 , SuperValu (and i hear something about an Aldi in the works? I could be mis-informed) In any case I think Spar is a bad example, its another example of franchise pushing up prices, which I think on the whole Spar is guilty of.

Dunnes is on the way up besdie all the new houese in Flemington. It and Ladbrokes and Abbrakebabra.... just waht we need eh!

Oh and the man in question will be starting the new O'Dwyers GAA Facility.... The old pitch is being developed into housing :rolleyes:

Thomond Pk

Sorry to bring this away from the proposed host location but the case for moving the Port anywhere has yet to be proven at all on financial grounds particularly the title issues and there has been no detailed costings of what the physical infrastructure would cost to build on a typical coastal site.

Bluetonic

meditraitor wrote:

In the mean time balbriggan as it is now has died and in its its place is an industrial town

Should do your history, Balbriggan was ALWAYS an industrial town.

The expansion of the town has been well documented and owes much to the foresight and drive of the Hamilton family, who owned a large portion of the area. In 1763, Balbriggan Harbour was built by Baron Hamilton at a cost of £15,000, aided by a government grant of £1,500. In 1829, Reverend Hamilton built the inner dock, costing £3,000.

The further expansion of Balbriggan as an industrial town was guaranteed with the opening, in 1844, of the Dublin to Drogheda railway. The railway which had been started six years earlier in 1838, passed through the town, and opened up more direct contact with other commercial centres. The railway continues to play a very important role in the life of Balbriggan, taking a large commuting population to work north and south each day.

There were three mills in operation in the town in it hayday exporting linen all over the world. Smyth and Company being an industrial driving force in the town for over 200 years.

There was a massive coal harbour which served a lot of the east coast.

In more recent years we have Hampton Mills and Wavin which have continued the industrial heritage.

So how can you say Balbriggan has died and in it's place is an industrial town?

Saruman

I thought this was more or less what has been going on down there for years.. development... the Docks seem to be dissapearing and apartments etc appear in their place.

I think its a good idea, had the same myself but that was a dream a while ago and nothing to do with the PD's

meditraitor

Bluetonic wrote:

Should do your history, Balbriggan was ALWAYS an industrial town.



There were three mills in operation in the town in it hayday exporting linen all over the world. Smyth and Company being an industrial driving force in the town for over 200 years.

There was a massive coal harbour which served a lot of the east coast.

In more recent years we have Hampton Mills and Wavin which have continued the industrial heritage.

So how can you say Balbriggan has died and in it's place is an industrial town?

Ah now we are into semantics, industry 1800 style or Industry 21century

You quoted this The expansion of the town has been well documented and owes much to the foresight and drive of the Hamilton family, who owned a large portion of the area. In 1763, Balbriggan Harbour was built by Baron Hamilton at a cost of £15,000, aided by a government grant of £1,500. In 1829, Reverend Hamilton built the inner dock, costing £3,000.

The further expansion of Balbriggan as an industrial town was guaranteed with the opening, in 1844, of the Dublin to Drogheda railway. The railway which had been started six years earlier in 1838, passed through the town, and opened up more direct contact with other commercial centres. The railway continues to play a very important role in the life of Balbriggan, taking a large commuting population to work north and south each day.

Balbriggans population didnt increase above 5000 till the late 60s, In 1651 the population of balbriggan was 30(yes, thats three o ,thirty). In 1841 almost 200 years later it was only 2849, this figure didnt really increase till the 60s...

So back to your stupid "balbriggan was always an industrialised town" analogy.


These mills employed 300 people , most of them female and child workers, and for some reason I dont think 1000 40 foot trucks a week serviced them..

And as for this imaginary massive coal harbour, maybe you could elaborate, was it misplaced or stolen maybe, cause I never heard of it. I do know some coal came into balbriggan harbour, but not enough to service the whole of the North East..

Wavin and hampton mills were the principle employers untill 30 years ago, then boom ,,, hamptom mills closed and wavin was left with a skeliton crew for 20 years only in the past 3/4 years getting back on its feet..

You obviously dont give a fuck about balbriggan, more interested in making it big and full of industry, with no soul.. < I hope there is not to many people like you out there.

Do you really want to see this

(were they want to build port)

Become this





Greed is an awfull thing..

jubbly

there is tons of that green fields and untouched beaches on the west coast,, move over there if you want. Ireland needs to move on , we need the port out of dublin so thousand of ordinary people can afford accomdation near the city and not spend 1/4 of their life in traffic jams.

Bluetonic

meditraitor wrote:

So back to your stupid "balbriggan was always an industrialised town" analogy.

Firstly, while youmay not agree with my analogy there is no need to belittle it. The size of industry in Balbriggan has ALWAYS been relevant to the size of it's population.

meditraitor wrote:

And as for this imaginary massive coal harbour, maybe you could elaborate, was it misplaced or stolen maybe, cause I never heard of it. I do know some coal came into balbriggan harbour, but not enough to service the whole of the North East..

I refer to the massive amounts of coal that were landed in the harbour.

meditraitor wrote:

and wavin was left with a skeliton crew for 20 years only in the past 3/4 years getting back on its feet..

It's been triving since the early 1990s thanks to the building boom both in Ireland and abroad where it's parent factorys are based. It doens't only produce for the Irish market. I can provide you with annual report figure for the last 15 years if you like, please PM me. They will take a few days to get.

meditraitor wrote:

You obviously dont give a fuck about balbriggan, more interested in making it big and full of industry, with no soul.. < I hope there is not to many people like you out there.

Do you really want to see this....

Become this....

Greed is an awfull thing..

Once again you've out done yourself with your use of words, charming, your a credit to yourself and to the town. I never once mentioned that I was for or against any port being located or being relocated to any hinterland around Balbriggan, at the moment I do not have an opinion on it as it is only a pipe dream.

meditraitor

Look, its simple as this, I dont want balbriggan turned into an industrialised Hub just so some gobshit working in the IFSC can have an apartment on the docks in Dublin, because thats what it boils down to.

magpie

It would relieve huge housing waiting lists

You mean people sitting around waiting to be housed for free by the government? I can think of a lot better uses for €15million per acre land. How about some nice parks, public amenities, cinemas, theatres? The Dublin Port area is pretty grim at the moment, at least partially because of the concentration of council housing there over the last 100 years. Why not have the council housing in Balbriggan too? I'm sure the land there is considerably cheaper.

Ireland needs to move on , we need the port out of dublin so thousand of ordinary people can afford accomdation near the city and not spend 1/4 of their life in traffic jams.

Amen

Bluetonic

meditraitor wrote:

Just curious(actually I know but do you) how many people were fully employed in Wavin in the 90s.. use you fingers

Well if you give me until tomorow I'll find out for you the exact numbers, don't give me any more clues until then.

Just becasue they cancelled the Wavin Employees Children Christmas Partys in the 1990 doesn't mean things were tough!

Don't get me I love the area like the Sailors Grave, and "The Moat" where I spent most summers of my childhood, I'm just not going to form an irrational opinion on something whcih is total pipe in the sky at the moment.

Bluetonic

magpie wrote:

Why not have the council housing in Balbriggan too? I'm sure the land there is considerably cheaper.
Amen

There already is considerable council housing in Balbriggan.

Zaph0d

Balbriggan was never quite paradise on earth but at least it was a place with a bit of character, some recognisable buildings, the harbour, the cardy marina, the bridge, the cluster of shops and pub, ardgillan. Its current development plans are slowly morphing the town into a soulless kip. In a few years it will be a few miles end-to-end of car-dependent, yellow-pack housing, inhabited by Dubs who can't afford Dublin. It's prime feature will be proximity to the M1. I can't see how a port could make it any worse.

meditraitor

Zaph0d wrote:

Balbriggan was never quite paradise on earth but at least it was a place with a bit of character, some recognisable buildings, the harbour, the cardy marina, the bridge, the cluster of shops and pub, ardgillan. Its current development plans are slowly morphing the town into a soulless kip. In a few years it will be a few miles end-to-end of car-dependent, yellow-pack housing, inhabited by Dubs who can't afford Dublin. It's prime feature will be proximity to the M1. I can't see how a port could make it any worse.

Its sad but, what your saying has a ring of truth to it, but I feel that this planned port would be the final nail in the coffin...

smokingman

Zaph0d wrote:

Balbriggan was never quite paradise on earth but at least it was a place with a bit of character

You've got to be kidding yeah?!!

Balbriggan is a ****hole populated by Tallagh rejects period.

meditraitor

smokingman wrote:

You've got to be kidding yeah?!!

Balbriggan is a ****hole populated by Tallagh rejects period.

:rolleyes: did your ma tell you that

smokingman

meditraitor wrote:

:rolleyes: did your ma tell you that

funny - "Your Ma" is heard quite a lot in Ballbriggan.
I'm sorry to say I live far too near to it's stink!

Walk into the town someday and just count the tracksuits......

meditraitor

smokingman wrote:

funny - "Your Ma" is heard quite a lot in Ballbriggan.
I'm sorry to say I live far too near to it's stink!

Walk into the town someday and just count the tracksuits......

Your "ma" certainly is heard quite a lot in balbriggan.. the guys in the tracksuit will acknowledge that. Tell her we said highhh..
And tell her to shower now and agin, then you might not get the stink.. //thunderdome //

smokingman

meditraitor wrote:

Your "ma" certainly is heard quite a lot in balbriggan.. the guys in the tracksuit will acknowledge that. Tell her we said highhh..
And tell her to shower now and agin, then you might not get the stink.. //thunderdome //

ah you're killing me! god your so funny,...ah stop now,.....seriously.....<hang on, where's me wallet gone?!>

foxybrowne

Whatever happens, it won't be done for the benefit of the people of Balbriggan. What does Balbriggan Town Council think of the idea?

meditraitor

smokingman wrote:

hang on, where's me wallet gone?!>

No guess's for that, "yor ma"

meditraitor

foxybrowne wrote:

Whatever happens, it won't be done for the benefit of the people of Balbriggan. What does Balbriggan Town Council think of the idea?

I dont know how they stand yet, but I will find out soon, a couple of them are neighbours, so I will try to corner them soon, see what they think!

meditraitor

smokingman wrote:

I'm sorry to say I live far too near to it's stink!

Walk into the town someday and just count the tracksuits......

All jokes aside dude, If you hate it that much and your still there you mustnt have the means to move, so I will put it this way.
If you hate it now, how bad do you think it will be if they start building and using that port?

smokingman

meditraitor wrote:

All jokes aside dude, If you hate it that much and your still there you mustnt have the means to move, so I will put it this way.
If you hate it now, how bad do you think it will be if they start building and using that port?

I've just started building a house in Kildare so I won't have to stay for much longer. I'd imagine the town council would love the idea. The extra jobs, the extra infrastructure, the money spent by the extra workers in the town...I can't see much of a downside from their view to be honest. They are only concerned with the fiscal strenght of their town as every other council is so I'd imagine they're gagging to sign up.

The only thing I hope doesn't happen is the threat of pollution. The beaches around there (and all the way up to Mornington) are beautiful, peaceful and clean. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

meditraitor

smokingman wrote:

The only thing I hope doesn't happen is the threat of pollution. The beaches around there (and all the way up to Mornington) are beautiful, peaceful and clean. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

This is the reason why Im so against this port, due to the lack of amenities in the community brought on by the weakness of the council against the developers a walk on the beach is one of the few pleasures Balbriggan can offer.

murphaph

Let's be honest. A container port will bring fcuk all jobs to Balbriggan-that's the reason behind containerisation! I'm still in favour of moving the port though. I assume they aren't mooting the actual harbour in Balbriggan for redevelopment, rather a location in the vicinity of Balbriggan (could be some distance from the harbour). Basically, opposing the development in the vicinity is no different to me as a D15 resident opposing new industrial estates being built here, bland as they are.

Presently in D15 we are seeing massive increases in housing density. Recently ABP overturned a council planning application rejection (and Fingal are pretty pro-high density compared to many local authorities) on a 51 unit/acre development, even going against the advice of it's own inspector. I support them. Dublin needs to densify and although it's not pleasant in the short term (traffic increase, lack of schools etc.) I'm happy that it is happening. We have to densify the core of the city and not just the outskirts and the port land is wasted as it is. It's a bold idea and it's time has come.

dead air

Being a Balbriggian myself, I'd be very wary of any more development in the area. All I can add really is a "not in my backyard" argument at the moment. I don't want a stinking international port polluting the water around Balbriggan (and Bettystown, Laytown and the rest of coastal east Meath for that matter). Balbriggan's beaches have being getting cleaner over the last few years and the town itself is starting to tidy itself up with reasonable new residential and commercial development. It's turning into quite a pleasant place to live.

Although I agree that a "gateway to the city" type dublin port of the future would be very nice to the people that live there, it's very easy for everyone to say that it wouldn't be such a bad thing just to relocate it Balbriggan and think that all would be fine and dandy. Planners are trying to get people to move out in our direction to ages.

If a Port move was to go ahead, there would have to be major supporting infrastructure enhancements added in the vacinity. Sure, it's close to the M1 but that road can only take so much traffic (as evidenced any monday morning rush hour or GAA match with travellers from Antrim, Down and Armagh). Furthermore, the Northern rail line is pretty stretched to the limit as it is. Adding more freight trains will be nightmarish. That line has to cater for existing Enterprise and Commuter services and indeed closer to the city, the Dart. Adding more frieght on that line will reduce the future possibilty of increased passenger train frequency on the line (that Irish Rail hope to provide) affecting all north of Dublin commuters. This line would need at least another track to cope and that will not be an easy build.

I work in East Point and I can see from my office that Dublin Port is a dirty shithole. Apart from the infrastructure worries, my main concern is that the new port will turn out to be an ugly and monstrous kip on what is now a very scenic and naturally beautiful coastline. I can understand how people can view Balbriggan as the ideal choice for any relocation, but would people be of the same view if the PDs mentioned Bray or Greystones instead?