PD's want Dublin port relocated out of Dublin to Balbriggan

nichen

Does anyone know the exact location of the proposed Port is it between Balbriggan and Gormanstown beach or where?

Bluetonic

nichen wrote:

Does anyone know the exact location of the proposed Port is it between Balbriggan and Gormanstown beach or where?

It from where the mouth of the Delvin on the Dublin/Meath border is heading south to the area where Cromwell's Harbour, 'The Moat' and 'The Wishing Chair' stand.

This is contained with the area http://www.megalithomania.com/show/site/1370

This is a computer generated image http://www.balbriggan.net/bremoreport.htm The mouth of the Delvin is half way across the top right of the picture.

Here another of the area http://www.balbriggan.net/images/townphotosaug05a.jpg


Thank God for snails http://www.heritageaction.org/?page=theheritagejournal&id=16

m_stan

fyi - There is a public meeting with Tom Morrisey of the PDs this week in Clontarf Castle as far as I'm aware. Cant remember the exact date.

His office would be able to confirm

Bluetonic

m_stan wrote:

fyi - There is a public meeting with Tom Morrisey of the PDs this week in Clontarf Castle as far as I'm aware. Cant remember the exact date.

His office would be able to confirm

There was one on Tuesday the 31st Jan in the hotel in Balbriggan already.

meditraitor

Bluetonic wrote:

There was one on Tuesday the 31st Jan in the hotel in Balbriggan already.

Sadly I missed it, hopefully there will be another,, soon

Maskhadov

m_stan wrote:

fyi - There is a public meeting with Tom Morrisey of the PDs this week in Clontarf Castle as far as I'm aware. Cant remember the exact date.

His office would be able to confirm

was relocation of Dublin port on the agenda ?? Lets all hope so

m_stan

Maskhadov wrote:

was relocation of Dublin port on the agenda ?? Lets all hope so

thats the only thing on the agenda and AFAIK the meeting has yet to happen.

meditraitor

The meeting happened and it was all about the port.... I havnt to many details as I couldnt make it, but there was an article about it in one of those free papers that comes in the door, north county something or other, I will root it out and post more details tomorrow.

meditraitor

Fingal Independent
By Donncha MacRaghnaill
IT’S FULL steam ahead for Bremore Port, which could eventually surpass Dublin Port in terms of size, as councillors moved to facilitate the deepwater port by way of a special objective.

At a draft County Development Plan meeting on Monday, councillors agreed to create a new objective, the first step in a process which could see phase one up and running ‘in three years optimistically and five at the outside’.

This was the view taken by Director of Planning David O’Connor who said while no timescale had been fixed, ‘our intention is to move very quickly on this’.

It was also revealed by Mr O’Connor that the Port would eventually have its own interchange directly onto the motorway travelling across country ‘to protect the amenities of Balbriggan and Balscadden’.


Councillors heard that after the final third phase this figure could rise to 25 million tonnes, in comparison to the current Dublin port capacity of 23 million.

http://www.unison.ie/fingal_independent/stories.php3?ca=34&si=1335145&issue_id=12050
You have to register for the Indo online for access(free)

Note the fact they are going to move very fast on this,

markpb

meditraitor wrote:

Note the fact they are going to move very fast on this,

I don't think the government (local or central) can move very fast on anything anymore. Even if they do get their act in shape, there'll always be a NIMBY waiting to trip them up.

Bluetonic

I'd be interested in how many people who are posting on this topic have actually visited or are familiar with this proposed site and have visualised what a scar it will be on the landscape.

Anyhow it'll be like the proposal a few years back of the relocation to Loughshinny, pie in the sky.

meditraitor

Bluetonic wrote:

I'd be interested in how many people who are posting on this topic have actually visited or are familiar with this proposed site and have visualised what a scar it will be on the landscape.

Anyhow it'll be like the proposal a few years back of the relocation to Loughshinny, pie in the sky.

Without exageration I have been across that part of the beach at least a 1000 times over the past 30 years, its were I go for peace and quiet, I cannot imagine not being able to take a stroll across there.:(
Its one of my first memories,

And I am sure I am not the only one...

Bluetonic

meditraitor wrote:

And I am sure I am not the only one...

It really is one of the most untouched and natural areas of coast line on the east coast, truely beautiful. From The Moat, to the Wishing Chair, to Cromwell's Harbour it can't be beaten.

meditraitor

Hopefully we are not the only two that have that opinion, it distresses me to think that all that beauty is targeted for destruction.
At some stage someone has to put up an objection and hopefully it will carry the weight of local opinion...
I have already been checking out some avenues that could lead to this development being put in check.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054880141

and have mailed a few people that are involved in planning and the likes just to get some info,
Mark

Bluetonic

meditraitor wrote:

and have mailed a few people that are involved in planning and the likes just to get some info,

Excellent, let us know of anything that comes up.

I notice with great interest the green nose himself, Trevor Sargent, hasn't come out with anything on the issue to date.

'The Moat' is listed on all os maps and is actually a protected structure as can be seen here http://www.fingalcoco.ie/devplan/yourfingal/amend_draft/maps/sheet2/b.htm#

meditraitor

Bluetonic wrote:

Excellent, let us know of anything that comes up.

I notice with great interest the green nose himself, Trevor Sargent, hasn't come out with anything on the issue to date.

'The Moat' is listed on all os maps and is actually a protected structure as can be seen here http://www.fingalcoco.ie/devplan/yourfingal/amend_draft/maps/sheet2/b.htm#

I sent Trevor a mail months ago to gauge his interest seems he has none

Copy of his reply below(is this OK to post other peoples replies, if not I will edit)

> Dear Mark,
>
> Further to your email 10/3 I met with Drogheda Port Co.
> representatives and
> raised your concerns.
> The Martello Tower & Bath house are hopefully going to be part of a
> restoration project when the Marine Conservation Centre is being
> developedin the immediate vicinity.
>
> The deepwater port will no doubt have a large visual impact on the
> area.It is also forecast to give rise to about 1,000 jobs and
> another 5-6,000
> jobs directly associated with the port activity. This will radically
> change the employment base in the Balbriggan area and will
> hopefull give
> opportunities for people to work closer to home rather than having to
> depend on commuting to and from Dublin as at present.
>
> I will be happy to discuss the matter with you and go through the
> plans as
> far as I know them, although it is still at a very preliminary
> stage. I am
> generally available on a Friday evening at 7pm in the Combined Clubs
> Community Centre, Dublin Street in Balbriggan - phone my mobile -
> 087 254
> 7836.
>
> Le gach dea-ghui,
>
> TREVOR SARGENT T.D.
> Leader, Green Party/Comhaontas Glas

Zaph0d

Where else would make a better location for an out of Dublin Port? Arklow?

Does anyone reading this understand the geographical requirements for a deep port?

meditraitor

Zaph0d wrote:

Where else would make a better location for an out of Dublin Port? Arklow?

Does anyone reading this understand the geographical requirements for a deep port?

Well I think instead of building a new port they could redevelop the existing port in Dublin instead of building apartments for IFSC yahoos, the land is already there,

nichen

Im only new to Balbriggan is the proposed Port new Cardy Rock Balbrigan

meditraitor wrote:

Well I think instead of building a new port they could redevelop the existing port in Dublin instead of building apartments for IFSC yahoos, the land is already there,

meditraitor

nichen wrote:

Im only new to Balbriggan is the proposed Port new Cardy Rock Balbrigan

Have you been down on the beach yet(the one down the lane beside Cardy Rock)?

nichen

Ye ive been down there the walk way where the tower is i live across from Cardy Rock, Hamlet Lane. Where are the planning on having the entrance, traffic going through. Do you think this will definitely go ahead.

meditraitor wrote:

Have you been down on the beach yet(the one down the lane beside Cardy Rock)?

meditraitor

I hope it doesnt go ahead!

It will be located about 1km to the left(if your facing the sea) of the Martello tower, its going to swallow up nearly all the beautifull coastline back as far as the football pitch's(Phase 3 all the way to the delvin).

Bluetonic wrote:

It from where the mouth of the Delvin on the Dublin/Meath border is heading south to the area where Cromwell's Harbour, 'The Moat(never heard of this!learn something new every day)' and 'The Wishing Chair' stand.

This is contained with the area http://www.megalithomania.com/show/site/1370

This is a computer generated image http://www.balbriggan.net/bremoreport.htm The mouth of the Delvin is half way across the top right of the picture.

Here another of the area http://www.balbriggan.net/images/townphotosaug05a.jpg

GallicProphet

Yes yes yes yes yes YES yessssss
Dublin bay finally living up to its potential !!!

I dont know Balbriggan, actually but whatever the arguments for not having it there, sure its not as populated as Dub city center and therefore not such a mad place to locate a busy industrial port.

quon

If they can't even fix the harbour thats already there, If they can't maintain the roads that are already in Balbriggan, If they can't put in services to facilitate the huge population currently in the town, I would have no faith in them being able to take on a project of this magnitude. Not that I would want it in the briggan anyway.

Trevor Sergent's email response above is interesting. For a Green, he's not voiciferous about the envionmental impact. In fact, he's been pretty silent in the media about it.

Has anyone thought of the question of drift? Could this port wall turn Balbriggan beach into a stone beach in the next 100 years?


http://www.balbriggan.net/bremoreport.htm

Now this makes me laugh. This, a replacement for Dublin port has docking space for 1,2,3,4... 5! ships! Insufficient container holding areas and has what looks like a back road as it's main entry point, coming off the old Drogheda road.

I'm telling you now, that is nowhere near what it'll look like. Fuel storage containers will be the first thing to go in. Which means tankers will be docking in the port. nice. I don't want a Hemel Hempstead oil storage fire a mile from my house thank you very much.

They are pushing for an incinerator up the tracks, are they going to be bringing in waste to this port.

The PD's won't get many votes round here if this goes ahead.

Calina

GallicProphet wrote:

Yes yes yes yes yes YES yessssss
Dublin bay finally living up to its potential !!!

I dont know Balbriggan, actually but whatever the arguments for not having it there, sure its not as populated as Dub city center and therefore not such a mad place to locate a busy industrial port.

Actually, I'd prefer it if people who did know Balbriggan and the surrounding area made the decision rather than people who don't.

Bluetonic

Good article in this weeks Fingal regarding the support to NOT have the port relocated to Bremore.

Amoungst others Micheal Kennedy (FF) has laughed the proposal out of the water so to speak.

GallicProphet

In reply to Calina... what I mean is: it seems that it's creating a whole lot of congestion problems, by being in the middle of the city... and I believe the space would be better used by modern urban housing and ammenities.

Also, Dublin Bay would look so beautiful without the industrial port in the middle like a sore... something to behold for a whole lot of people in the city center and for the tourist also... and it seems it would go hand in hand with the whole regeneration of the Docklands.

I dream of a bridge going from Clontarf to Sandymount, arching over the new blocks of habitation, shops and small parks that would replace the port and connecting the North-east and the South east of the capital.

Of course Balbriggan is probably very scenic, as some people have posted very nice pictures... I have to check it out sometimes...

meditraitor

GallicProphet wrote:

Of course Balbriggan is probably very scenic, as some people have posted very nice pictures... I have to check it out sometimes...

The area earmarked for this port is probably the most scenic part of balbriggan... get down soon to check it out or the pictures on Balbriggan.net will be the only way you could enjoy it.

quon

I can't see the congestioin problems going to be honest. The majority of the freight would still have to be delivered to the city, would it not? and then there's the extra burden of the traffic from the new dock residents.

And I doubt that Dublin bay would look beautiful without the port, just another Steel & glass skyline indistinguishable from any other European city. I would hate to see Dublin go like that.

Bluetonic

Drogheda Port Compnay proposal http://www.droghedaport.ie/cms/uploads/30_9_04.pdf

Calina

GallicProphet wrote:

In reply to Calina... what I mean is: it seems that it's creating a whole lot of congestion problems, by being in the middle of the city... and I believe the space would be better used by modern urban housing and ammenities.

Also, Dublin Bay would look so beautiful without the industrial port in the middle like a sore... something to behold for a whole lot of people in the city center and for the tourist also... and it seems it would go hand in hand with the whole regeneration of the Docklands.

I dream of a bridge going from Clontarf to Sandymount, arching over the new blocks of habitation, shops and small parks that would replace the port and connecting the North-east and the South east of the capital.

Of course Balbriggan is probably very scenic, as some people have posted very nice pictures... I have to check it out sometimes...

Actually, what you mean is Dublin Port is an eyesore, let's go and wreck some other relatively unspoilt coastline so that you don't have to look at it. Doesn't matter which coastline, because hey, you've never been there, you don't live there and once the port is gone out there, I doubt if you're going to care. You're naive if you think we'd get a) urban renewal and b) urban renewal within a non-geological time frame. Whether you dream of the bridge is totally irrelevant. Destroying some of the few beaches around Dublin is not, in my opinion, very bright. Yes I'm cynical but people who do start arguments in favour of a major environmental upheaval in and around Balbriggan with "I dont know Balbriggan" tend to bring that out in me.

A significant amount of the port related congestion should hopefully be alleviated by the port tunnel. I'd also venture to say that planning has a sufficient number of faults for me to be concerned about the quality of any urban renewal plans in Dublin right now. I say leave it where it is and work with it.

Bluetonic

Calina wrote:

Doesn't matter which coastline, because hey, you've never been there, you don't live there and once the port is gone out there, I doubt if you're going to care.

Summed it up.

Excellent post.

MorningStar

The arguements are really simple.
1)High value property could be used better
2)The congestions in Dublin restricts the businesses using the port being effective.
3) No room for expansion

On the other side
1)We don't want our area disturbed
2)The government won't do it right becasue the area isn't right now

Common belief from the masses
1) THe government take ages to do anything
2) The government never think forwardly
3) Planning is completely corrupt
4) Everything more expensive here

Now if people can reconcoile the popular views with the other view I will be impressed. People just moan

Zaph0d

Calina wrote:

Actually, what you mean is Dublin Port is an eyesore, let's go and wreck some other relatively unspoilt coastline so that you don't have to look at it.

I totally agree and I nominate Courtown Harbour for NWB.

GallicProphet

Calina wrote:

Actually, what you mean is Dublin Port is an eyesore, let's go and wreck some other relatively unspoilt coastline so that you don't have to look at it. Doesn't matter which coastline, because hey, you've never been there, you don't live there and once the port is gone out there, I doubt if you're going to care. You're naive if you think we'd get a) urban renewal and b) urban renewal within a non-geological time frame. Whether you dream of the bridge is totally irrelevant. Destroying some of the few beaches around Dublin is not, in my opinion, very bright. Yes I'm cynical but people who do start arguments in favour of a major environmental upheaval in and around Balbriggan with "I dont know Balbriggan" tend to bring that out in me.

A significant amount of the port related congestion should hopefully be alleviated by the port tunnel. I'd also venture to say that planning has a sufficient number of faults for me to be concerned about the quality of any urban renewal plans in Dublin right now. I say leave it where it is and work with it.

Yes I don't know Balbriggan ( SORRY :rolleyes: ), and to be honest, I am not specifically in support of putting it there... just saying it would be nice somewhere ( probably anywhere ) else than in the most populated area in Ireland.
Because, you see... even though I dont know Balbriggan ( SORRY :rolleyes: ), I am sure it would bother less people over there than over here.
And at the end of the day, that's what's called the greater good... heard of that ? or just care about the nice beach panorama for you and your dog walking chums maybe ?

Calina

GallicProphet wrote:

Yes I don't know Balbriggan ( SORRY :rolleyes: ), and to be honest, I am not specifically in support of putting it there... just saying it would be nice somewhere ( probably anywhere ) else than in the most populated area in Ireland.
Because, you see... even though I dont know Balbriggan ( SORRY :rolleyes: ), I am sure it would bother less people over there than over here. And at the end of the day, that's what's called the greater good... heard of that ?

Yes, I know what the greater good is, and I'd question whether the destruction of some of Dublin's coast is, ultimately, in the long term, for the greater good.

Bluetonic

GallicProphet wrote:

or just care about the nice beach panorama for you and your dog walking chums maybe ?

And what do you care about? How will populating the dublin port area wtih 10,000s of residential units improve it.

GallicProphet

Bluetonic wrote:

And what do you care about? How will populating the dublin port area wtih 10,000s of residential units improve it.

For one thing I care about taking cars and HGVs of the city streets, providing an easier commute to work for 1000s of people, reversing the insane spread of Dublin city... also I care about a nice scenic landscape but sometimes sacrifices have to be made in order to provide a better future for townies...

I also wish we could have the best of both world... nice beaches and free-flowing city center, cars who run on water, unfortunately you cant have it all and make everyone happy.

Bluetonic

GallicProphet wrote:

For one thing I care about taking cars and HGVs of the city streets, providing an easier commute to work for 1000s of people, reversing the insane spread of Dublin city.

Do you think that developing dublin port into residential and commercial space putting 10,000s of people into a space where people have never lived will not INCREASE the amount of cars and service vechiles on the city streets.

The port tunnel should, over time, reduce the amount of HGVs, even with the port moved HGV and other long-wheel base vechiles will still need to use the city streets.

How do you think the commute for people heading from the North East of the country and north county Dublin to Dublin City will be easier with them having to share the road and rail infrastructure with goods being transported into the city from a port in Bremore?

MorningStar

GallicProphet wrote:

For one thing I care about taking cars and HGVs of the city streets, providing an easier commute to work for 1000s of people, reversing the insane spread of Dublin city...

You don't need to move the port for that just stop building pout and go up. THere is no need to keep provding the housing stock we are. NIMBYs will stop you along with history buffs

lostexpectation

is dublin port efficiently utilised?

are there parts lying underused while they plan to extend it further? and build in balbriggan

spacetweek

quon wrote:

And I doubt that Dublin bay would look beautiful without the port, just another Steel & glass skyline indistinguishable from any other European city. I would hate to see Dublin go like that.

What? But it doesn't look beautiful WITH the port. And I'm a bit confused about your steel and glass skyline comment. What would you prefer - slum housing? Mud huts? Personally i'd prefer steel and glass any day to oil storage tanks.

Maskhadov

Bluetonic wrote:

Do you think that developing dublin port into residential and commercial space putting 10,000s of people into a space where people have never lived will not INCREASE the amount of cars and service vechiles on the city streets.

Putting in high density high quality apartments and offfice space will mean that people dont have to drive to work, they can simply walk or get Luas/Metro/Dart/Dublin Bus etc

The port tunnel should, over time, reduce the amount of HGVs, even with the port moved HGV and other long-wheel base vechiles will still need to use the city streets.

The port tunnel will simple disperse the traffic problems from the city centre to the M50. Moving the port out of Dublin would take all the traffic out of Dublin and the M50 providing rail was used.

How do you think the commute for people heading from the North East of the country and north county Dublin to Dublin City will be easier with them having to share the road and rail infrastructure with goods being transported into the city from a port in Bremore?

By making use of all the free rail capacity at night when the entire network isnt used. Of course extra rail lines would be a help.

Bluetonic

Maskhadov wrote:

Putting in high density high quality apartments and offfice space will mean that people dont have to drive to work, they can simply walk or get Luas/Metro/Dart/Dublin Bus etc

That doesn't happen at the moment in, take for example the IFSC, very few of the 15,000 people who work there live there, even though there are numerous quality apartments nearby. People want family houses with garden and open space to live in, not high density.

What your proposing would take a major and in my opinon impossible shift in the Irish mentality to the ways of living.

Maskhadov wrote:

The port tunnel will simple disperse the traffic problems from the city centre to the M50. Moving the port out of Dublin would take all the traffic out of Dublin and the M50 providing rail was used.

Moving the port would still mean the vast majority of all port traffic (imported goods) would still have to go to the M50 to traverse the country.

Maskhadov wrote:

By making use of all the free rail capacity at night when the entire network isnt used. Of course extra rail lines would be a help.

There are no provisions for extra rail lines on the northern suburban line, also as the northern suburban line travels straight through the centre of Balbriggan I'm sure you'd find opossition to major night time rail movements. At present they are few and far between

Maskhadov

Bluetonic wrote:

That doesn't happen at the moment in, take for example the IFSC, very few of the 15,000 people who work there live there, even though there are numerous quality apartments nearby. People want family houses with garden and open space to live in, not high density.

What your proposing would take a major and in my opinon impossible shift in the Irish mentality to the ways of living.

The government is pressing ahead with family sized apartments at Hueston. They are just waiting for a few agencies and organizations to vacate the buildings. That is a demonstration in the shift in mentality.

Moving the port would still mean the vast majority of all port traffic (imported goods) would still have to go to the M50 to traverse the country.

Well an awful lot of HGV's flood up the keys 24/7. It would elimate most of them and not shift that problem to the M50. Of course some will continue to use the M50

There are no provisions for extra rail lines on the northern suburban line, also as the northern suburban line travels straight through the centre of Balbriggan I'm sure you'd find opossition to major night time rail movements. At present they are few and far between

I know there isnt but the government should quad track from Ballbriggan to Dublin. I dont know if frieght could be delivered down the country (other ports should be used more anyway) but it would save an awful lot of HGV's on the roads.

Would a HGV fit on a rail car ? If we had something like the Eurostar drive on freight service it would be fantastic for irish roads.

Victor

Maskhadov wrote:

Would a HGV fit on a rail car ? If we had something like the Eurostar drive on freight service it would be fantastic for irish roads.

The trains for the Channel Shuttle (technicly not Eurostar) would be outsized, specificly to take a truck on the rail cars.

Irish trains can take standard containers, they couldn't take truck + container.

What kills railfreight in this country is the diverse nature of development that prevents businesses having their own freight yards / sidings. Delivering individual containers isn't profitable in the current set-up, because invariably you need a truck to bring it to a rail yard.

quon

spacetweek wrote:

What? But it doesn't look beautiful WITH the port. And I'm a bit confused about your steel and glass skyline comment. What would you prefer - slum housing? Mud huts? Personally i'd prefer steel and glass any day to oil storage tanks.

No, it doesn't, but that's because it serves a purpose that doesn't require aesthetics considerations. It's not meant to look beautiful.

No, of course I wouldn't prefer mud huts or slums, I'd prefer a port that fully utilises the Docks.

Victor

And where are they going to move the power stations to? And the Sewage works?

Maskhadov

Its a shame about the bad planning that affects this island. Using freight on rail would be a god send .

The sewage works wasnt put in the smartest of locations IMHO. I dont know how they would move it. The power station might be easier since its not going to run forever.

Maybe they could just concentrate on the actual port side of things and leave the rings end for the forseeable future.

Are the sewage works are still smelly btw ??

If the port was relocated maybe we could finally get rid of the ugly north bull island. The port relocation would solve an awful lot of problems in Dublin.

Capt'n Midnight

Maskhadov wrote:

The sewage works wasnt put in the smartest of locations IMHO.

Damned inconsiderate Gravity..
You'd have to build a pumping station AND a large pipe to a relocated one, but not on Bull Island please.

Maskhadov wrote:

If the port was relocated maybe we could finally get rid of the ugly north bull island. The port relocation would solve an awful lot of problems in Dublin.

If the port was replaced with steel and glass then it would block the view of the sea and surroundings from the city. Unless it was low rise.

And the cost ? Once upon a time people used truck stuff to Waterford from Dublin 'cos it was cheaper than using Dublin port. If the new port is more expensive the beneficieries could be other ports, with the overload on roads that that would imply.

Bring back the Lady Patricia and Miranda Guiness I say