Ireland v Italy - Pre match

eirebhoy

Now that all the premiership matches are over we can look to the Italy match on Wednesday. Italy are bringing a strong squad:

Goalkeepers: Gianluigi Buffon (Juventus), Morgan De Sanctis (Udinese), Flavio Roma (Monaco).

Defenders: Andrea Barzagli (Palermo), Fabio Cannavaro (Juventus), Fabio Grosso (Palermo), Marco Materazzi (Inter Milan), Alessandro Nesta (AC Milan), Cristian Zaccardo (Palermo), Gianluca Zambrotta (Juventus).

Midfielders: Simone Barone (Palermo), Mauro Camoranesi (Juventus), Daniele De Rossi (AS Roma), Aimo Diana (Sampdoria), Gennaro Gattuso (AC Milan), Giandomenico Mesto (Reggina), Andrea Pirlo (AC Milan).

Forwards: Alessandro Del Piero (Juventus), Alberto Gilardino (AC Milan), Vincenzo Iaquinta (Udinese), Luca Toni (Fiorentina), Francesco Totti (AS Roma), Christian Vieri (AC Milan).


The strongest squad they've announced for a friendly in a long time so it will be a good test before the France game. What's up the whole Palermo defence in the squad?

Possible Italian team:

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Buffon

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Zaccardo-Nesta-Cannavarro-Zambrotta

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Pirlo

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Gattuso-Camoranesi

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Totti

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Vieri---Gilardino

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I look forward to it.

wheres me jumpa

i noticed a lot of speculation in the papers today that kerrs job is on the line. i.e. if we dont qualify hes gone. how do people feel about this?

personally i think he should be giving more time even if we dont qualify.

PHB

If we don't qualify he has to be gone, theres no way we could justify keeping him on. He would have got his chance, and he would have failed.
That said, I don't think he will.
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I'm going to this game, I'm really looking forward to see Pirlo play again. Also will be the first time I see Gilardino play, its gona be fun :P

Third_Echelon

PHB wrote:

If we don't qualify he has to be gone, theres no way we could justify keeping him on. He would have got his chance, and he would have failed.
That said, I don't think he will.
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I'm going to this game, I'm really looking forward to see Pirlo play again. Also will be the first time I see Gilardino play, its gona be fun :P

One thing that you forget is that we are dealing with the FAI here, not the board of some trophy hungry premiership side. Kerr was chosen as he was the CHEAP option, and he will remain the cheap option.

Honestly if we don't qualify, I don't see him getting the sack.

wheres me jumpa

hes on 350,000 a year according to the sunday world. would anyother manager who would mange ireland get much more?

jubbly

We have to make the world cup each time it comes up. Its too expensive for us to miss out, just look at how Josh turned out, who missed out on a WC. It really helps players develop.

Kerr will be gone in 3 matches if he doesnt produce two wins and a draw. Its as simple as that. Personally I think Kerr is a good manager but the english based players dont belive in him IMO. Were due a big performance from this Irish side against France.

Hopefully we beat the french et al and Kerr gets to stay on. We need an Irish manager who knows all our players and gets invovled in all aspects of Irish soccer.

This match with italy will be intresting but its pretty meaningless IMO. I dont really care if we lose 5-0 as long as our team going in to the game against France is well drilled and motivated in what do to.

Third_Echelon

wheres me jumpa wrote:

...according to the sunday world....

yes a very reliable source of information.

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Would anyother manager who would mange ireland get much more?

Well when McCarthy left, the other candidates were not chosen as Kerr was the least costly option. With the calibre of managers available out there, do you really think that any other FA would have chosen Kerr?

Vokes

jubbly wrote:

This match with italy will be intresting but its pretty meaningless IMO. I dont really care if we lose 5-0 as long as our team going in to the game against France is well drilled and motivated in what do to.

Nothing meaningless about the game at all, i mean, look at that Italian squad, its awesome! We're playing France (a team of similar strength) soon, and playing this Italian team is by far the best preperation.

Lemlin

Kerr was chosen because a lot of people wanted him. He's shown his tactical inadequacies against Israel in both games though, two games we should of won but didn't.

If we don't make the World Cup, then I think he should go. Switzerland are no great shakes after all, they went to Euro 2004 and got hammered by any team they played.

wheres me jumpa

Third_Echelon wrote:

With the calibre of managers available out there, do you really think that any other FA would have chosen Kerr?

its all well and good talking about the calibre of managers out there. but not all of these managers would be interested in taking the irish job. at the time of kerrs appointment qualification was a long shot at best and with keane seemingly retired the team looked a lot less capable than it looked going into the world cup.

so the irish package wasnt all that attractive at the time.

Third_Echelon

wheres me jumpa wrote:

its all well and good talking about the calibre of managers out there. but not all of these managers would be interested in taking the irish job. at the time of kerrs appointment qualification was a long shot at best and with keane seemingly retired the team looked a lot less capable than it looked going into the world cup.

so the irish package wasnt all that attractive at the time.

precisely... money makes a job attractive and they weren't willing to pay it...

as the saying goes: "if you pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys..."

soma

There's plenty about kerr I like - but the incredible negativity (and quite frankly lack of self belief, hmm hey maybe fenlon adopted a kerr mentality for shels in europe this season! ) really pissed me off in those two games against israel - we afforded a distinctly average team a world of respect and realistically it has cost us qualification.

My prediction for the remaining three games...
draw/loss v france
win v cyrpus
draw v swiss

A possible slip up for israel could be the pharoes away, it's a tough & unpleasant
assignment as ireland & france have found out, and every team has to have at least one day during qualification where their luck doesnt run & they've yet to have that.

As for Italy, paraphrasing their manager "we'll play to our strengths and we have better attackers than defenders" - so it'll be interesting to see if they do actually adopt an approach that differs from the one that has sent many of us to sleep at recent tournaments

As for ireland, I'd like to see richard dunne in there if he recovers fully.

StickyMcGinty

i would have been all in favour of keeping kerr for regardless, until i saw us play agianst israel that is. kerr made so many misakes in that game it was unreal.

as regards wednesdays game, i'd be hoping to keep our good home record going, but without robbie keane p frount its gonna be tought to get a goal:

i'll go with 1-1 though!

Pigman II

I'm getting tired of all this Kerr bashing!

No that doesn't mean I think Kerr is doing a good job for us. What it means is I'm literallty just getting bored of every thread re Ireland turning into a Kerr debate.

Anyway heres hoping we win on Wednesday. Were going to need it to offset our upcoming failures against France/Swiss in order to maintain our impressive position in the FIFA ranks .... and after all that is what's really important!

jubbly

Here, Kerr is Mr Cautious alright, but when has Ireland ever done itself any favours and beaten weaker teams ??

Things have always had to come to a head for us to play well. Still Kerr will be gone in 3 matches time if we havent qualified. I see O Leary is being linked with the Ireland set up.

Robbie is injured (ankle) so he is going to miss the Italy game. Its another chance for Elliott to show what he can.

StickyMcGinty

if he even starts elliot that is!!

i hope he does, i think he's a lot to offer, a lot more than doherty or morrisson anyway

Pigman II

I don't think O'Leary would ever take the job unless he was really stuck. He's on a nice little bunsen at Villa atm afaik (one of the top paid managers in the prem).

YeatsCounty

Buffon's out of the Italian squad after getting injured during Juve's 2-1 defeat to Milan in the Trofeo Berlusconi last night.

Matteo Guardalben replaces Buffon.

Big Nelly

Pigman II wrote:

(one of the top paid managers in the prem).

Where u find this out? I wouldnt think so when Villa wont even pay out for players!!

Kingp35

Ok first off if Ireland don’t qualify for the world cup then I think Kerr should be relieved of the managers role and he should be given the role of Technical director or something along those lines as he really is the man to help Irish soccer which is in dire need of change. Packie Bonner is in the role at the moment and he doesn’t know his arse from his face. Kerr would be the perfect man for that job should Ireland fail to qualify. Either if we do fail we should definitley seek out a new manager.

As for the Italy game I don't think its meaningless at all. The lads have just had a summer off so they need a game together and against top class oposition like we will face against France is the perfect warm up. The result isn't all that important but I hope can at least not lose the game. Elliott has to start. If he starts Doherty then Kerr is officially an Idiot

Jivin Turkey

I think its a perfect warm up game in time for next month. It will be tough to break the Italians down, and it will be the same next month.

Ill go for a 1-0 win for us, and a dire game to boot. But Id happily take that against France too.

Given
Finnan-Cunningham-Dunne-O'Shea
S.Reid-Kavanagh-Kilbane-A.Reid
Morrison-Elliott

wheres me jumpa

yeah the doherty situation is a joke. this game should be good prepartation for the france game if we approach it right.

id like to see elliot given a game, it would do his confidence the world of good ahead of a testing season at sunderland and perhaps further caps in this group.

kerr is a negative manager so far but in terms of managing at a high level he is still inexperienced. so he should have learned from the israel games how to deal with situations like that. if he hasnt and we dont qualify he deserves to go. but i think he can improve so much more.

Spider_Baby!

No Buffon, and Cassano has been dropped. I still think we have a chance against Italy, but its all depending on how well our defence plays.

Necronomicon

I'd like to see something like:

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Given

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Finnan----Cunningham----Dunne

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O' Shea----

S.Reid

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Kilbane

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A.Reid

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Duff

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Morrison

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Elliott

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Serbian

Necromomicon wrote:

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Given

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Finnan----Cunningham----Dunne

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O' Shea----

S.Reid

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Kilbane

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A.Reid

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Duff

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Morrison

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Elliott

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A.Reid in the centre? Has he ever played there? I think you'd be more likely to see Stephen Reid in the centre personally. But Kavanagh is the most likely person to be filling the holding midfielder role, the midfield above is probably a bit too unbalanced.

Necronomicon

Serbian wrote:

A.Reid in the centre? Has he ever played there? I think you'd be more likely to see Stephen Reid in the centre personally. But Kavanagh is the most likely person to be filling the holding midfielder role, the midfield above is probably a bit too unbalanced.

That's the thing, I don't think he ever has, but I think it would be interesting to see him there.

Bateman

I can see us drawing this match, like we have drawn a lot of friendles. As usual, Kerr won't take too many chances, and a lot of the teams people "would like to see" can't really be chanced, as it's our last chance for some decent preparation for the France game, a game we all know the importance of.

The Rooster

To say Kerr was the cheap option is a bit silly. There were 4 or 5 contenders and they were all told what the salary would be, and it would have been the same no matter who got the job. I for one was delighted that Kerr got the job ahead of the second choice, Bryan Robson (who as most people will know was Delaney's choice).

I think it is right though, that no decision is made on his new contract until after these qualifiers.

I have to admit I'm getting a bit sick of Kerr. He clearly made a mistake (which in fairness anyone can) when he didnt bring on Elliott against Israel. This was proven by Elliott's man of the match display agaisnt the Faroes. Kerr, instead of admitting that he got it wrong, instead tried to play down Elliott's performance at the time. And again he's been at it this week, saying Elliott didnt deserve the man of the match award in the Faroes. So much for building up a player's confidence :rolleyes:

jubbly

Kerr's angle about Elliott was that he performed well against the Faroes but the Faroes werent Israel. It was a mistake by Kerr alright, enough to get him sacked. But at the end of the day we had 11 priemership players on the pitch that were better than the Israeli 11 and we lost it :mad: .

I blame the 11 players out on the pitch for that diabolical result in landsdowne road and out in Tel Aviv as well. They dont belive in Kerr and didnt dig him out of a hole.

They didnt care, Roy Keane didnt care, the FAI didnt care, no one cared, expect Kerr and the supporters. Pathetic.

Gileadi

Serbian wrote:

A.Reid in the centre? Has he ever played there?

he has indeed played there before,for ireland aswell as the club im quite sure

its probably more likely that steven reid will go in the centre if hes going to start (which i dont think he will) seeing as thats where he plays most of his club football right now,he had a strong close to last season so lets hope he keeps it up

eirebhoy

I said this a few times after the Israel game but this is the choice Kerr had. Bring on a striker who couldn't get into the Sunderland team and hadn't started a game in 2 months. Or put a player up front who would get his game up front for Chelsea (he played there against Barca) and his previous 2 games in that position for Ireland he scored and got MOM. I am pretty certain if Jose Mourinho was the Ireland coach for that Israel match he would have made the same substitution. It did not cost us the game, luck did. We played 100% to our best apart from a period of about the 22nd minute until the 2nd Israel goal when we seemed to dose off.

soma wrote:

we afforded a distinctly average team a world of respect and realistically it has cost us qualification.

Judging by Israel's performances in their home games against Switzerland and France I can guarantee you that they gave us way too much respect aswell. Israel against us were nothing like the team that I've seen on Setanta in other games. I'd say they're on par with Switzerland. /edit OT - They drew 0-0 away to Ukraine tonight and beat them 5-3 on peno's.

The phrase "you're only as good as your last game" couldn't be more true in Kerr's case.

Spider_Baby!

Totti is out of the Italy squad now too. Hes got a "fever"....A lot of the players i was hoping to have the pleasure watching on wednesday have pulled out now! No keane, totti, buffon, cassano....just hope i get to see gilardino play for the first time!!

jubbly

Pity the top players pulled out, I wanted to see Ireland really tested.

what is the starting line up ?

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Given
Finnan---O Brien----Cunningham--Josh
Reid

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Kilbane--Kavanagh

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Duff

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Clinton---Elliott

Not our best 11 but enough to get us a result. Miller should get 30 minutes at the end, and if Dunne was fit I would start him. Apart from that I cant think of any subs

eirebhoy

jubbly wrote:

Pity the top players pulled out, I wanted to see Ireland really tested.

Del Piero is a decent replacement for Totti and the same goes for Gilardinho for Cassano. Del Piero will probably be a better test than Totti who I would say doesn't care about friendlies.

The Rooster

eirebhoy wrote:

I said this a few times after the Israel game but this is the choice Kerr had. Bring on a striker who couldn't get into the Sunderland team and hadn't started a game in 2 months. Or put a player up front who would get his game up front for Chelsea (he played there against Barca) and his previous 2 games in that position for Ireland he scored and got MOM. I am pretty certain if Jose Mourinho was the Ireland coach for that Israel match he would have made the same substitution. It did not cost us the game, luck did. We played 100% to our best apart from a period of about the 22nd minute until the 2nd Israel goal when we seemed to dose off.

Thats not true about Elliott not getting his game with Sunderland. McCarthy did some rotation but Elliott started 29 league games and got 15 goals. Apart from injury he was playing all the time towards the crucial end of season. And its not like it was a choice of Duff v Elliott as you seem to suggest. And Jose rarely plays Duff up-front - almost always on the wing.

I think we'd have been a lot luckier if we stuck to the same formation that was causing Israel all kinds of problems up to that and kept Duff on the wing and brought Elliott on up front.

Jivin Turkey

The Rooster wrote:

Thats not true about Elliott not getting his game with Sunderland. McCarthy did some rotation but Elliott started 29 league games and got 15 goals. Apart from injury he was playing all the time towards the crucial end of season. And its not like it was a choice of Duff v Elliott as you seem to suggest. And Jose rarely plays Duff up-front - almost always on the wing.

I think we'd have been a lot luckier if we stuck to the same formation that was causing Israel all kinds of problems up to that and kept Duff on the wing and brought Elliott on up front.

Elliott had not started a game for Sunderland for over two months by the time of the Israel game.

I thought he should have come on too, had we held on I would have been happy with Kerr's decision, however hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Kingp35

Putting duff up front messed up the entire shape of the team which lead to duff being inaffective and us resorting to long ball tactics. An absolutley terrible decision by Kerr and anyone who says different needs there head tested. I have yet to here anyone say that Kerr was not at fault in that match.

Also you guys seem to forgot that he brought on Doherty for Reid. That tells you how much of an idiot Kerr is. He brings on a player so he can win headers in the box, but wait for it, he brings him on and takes off our best crosser of the ball. Surely everyone can see the stupidity in that decision. Ultimately we still should have won that game but Kerr decisions were diabolical and he made it a lot harder for us to win the game.

Tomorrows game will be an important build up to the next big games where Kerrs future will be decided. If we don’t qualify he will out be out. That’s why the FAI are refucing to offer a contract until the outcome of this qualifying campaign is known

Seaneh

Kingp35 wrote:

Putting duff up front messed up the entire shape of the team which lead to duff being inaffective and us resorting to long ball tactics. An absolutley terrible decision by Kerr and anyone who says different needs there head tested. I have yet to here anyone say that Kerr was not at fault in that match.

Also you guys seem to forgot that he brought on Doherty for Reid. That tells you how much of an idiot Kerr is. He brings on a player so he can win headers in the box, but wait for it, he brings him on and takes off our best crosser of the ball. Surely everyone can see the stupidity in that decision. Ultimately we still should have won that game but Kerr decisions were diabolical and he made it a lot harder for us to win the game.

Tomorrows game will be an important build up to the next big games where Kerrs future will be decided. If we don’t qualify he will out be out. That’s why the FAI are refucing to offer a contract until the outcome of this qualifying campaign is known

you're spot on there.

Necronomicon

Kavanagh has been ruled out, I can't remember his injury though..
Or so Sky have been reporting.

CrowdedHouse

Kingp35 wrote:

Putting duff up front messed up the entire shape of the team which lead to duff being inaffective and us resorting to long ball tactics. An absolutley terrible decision by Kerr and anyone who says different needs there head tested. I have yet to here anyone say that Kerr was not at fault in that match.

Also you guys seem to forgot that he brought on Doherty for Reid. That tells you how much of an idiot Kerr is. He brings on a player so he can win headers in the box, but wait for it, he brings him on and takes off our best crosser of the ball. Surely everyone can see the stupidity in that decision. Ultimately we still should have won that game but Kerr decisions were diabolical and he made it a lot harder for us to win the game.

Spot on,I'm glad someone else remembered it
(Myself and GF were on the 1st day of our holiday and almost had a row 'cos I was so mad)

eirebhoy

The Rooster wrote:

Thats not true about Elliott not getting his game with Sunderland. McCarthy did some rotation but Elliott started 29 league games and got 15 goals. Apart from injury he was playing all the time towards the crucial end of season. And its not like it was a choice of Duff v Elliott as you seem to suggest. And Jose rarely plays Duff up-front - almost always on the wing.

I think we'd have been a lot luckier if we stuck to the same formation that was causing Israel all kinds of problems up to that and kept Duff on the wing and brought Elliott on up front.

As JT said, Elliott hadn't started a match in 2 months for Sunderland before the Israel game. Not because of injury but because McCarthy preferred the other options he had up front. The formation stayed 4-4-2. Israel got back into the game 5 minutes before Keane went off. I still have it on tape. Jonny Giles says on the 29th minute that he's getting a bit worried that Israel have got back into the game in the last 10 minutes. Israel's left winger walked his way into our box on about the 25th minute. Keane went off on the 27th minute.

I would have put Elliott on too but I am 100% behind Kerr for taking the decision he did. It wasn't in the least conservative imo. If he had Adriano on the bench he would have put him on. They went out all guns blazing and let Israel back into the game after 20 odd minutes. Although, I am not behind him one bit for taking Andy Reid off. That was a terrible substition.

Jivin Turkey

eirebhoy wrote:

I would have put Elliott on too but I am 100% behind Kerr for taking the decision he did. It wasn't in the least conservative imo. If he had Adriano on the bench he would have put him on. They went out all guns blazing and let Israel back into the game after 20 odd minutes. Although, I am not behind him one bit for taking Andy Reid off. That was a terrible substition.

I concur.

I wanted to see Elliott, but Kerr knows how sharp he was far better than any of us can speculate, it would have been his first competitive game as well.

The Reid substitution was puzzling to say the least however for what he was changing the team to do.

sharkman

Anyone got a spare ticket .

StickyMcGinty

sharkman, usually ther'll be a few bangin around at the game, last friendly i was at there were loads before the gate. some were bein givin waway at the last minute for free!

Necronomicon

VinnyL wrote:

sharkman, usually ther'll be a few bangin around at the game, last friendly i was at there were loads before the gate. some were bein givin waway at the last minute for free!

Ah, to live near Lansdowne Road

When can we expect the team news?

[Jackass]

Kerr has so much to offer Irish Football, and is a brilliant organiser and should be technical director in Irish football but...

At this level, he neither has the expierience or the expertise for the job. Tacticly he is appauling, as we have seen. Tactical substitutions can turn any game, but it's all to do with timing and the right man for the job at hand on the pitch. McCarthy effectively lost his job because he brought on Doherty as a striker against switzerland, and switched to a 3-4-3 against switzerland, when we were playing shocking at the back as it was, and of course we were caught on the break and lost a five od year unbeaten record at home to a shocking team. (who we are yet to beat in 3 attempts), but more importantly cost us a place in EC, from a group, in all fairness, we should have walked.

Kerr should lose his job if we fail to qualify in this WC for the incredible incompidence he showed at home to Israel, where he was clearly out of his depth, and was either to stubborn, or to stupid to fix his error of in tactics before it was to late....we were out played for half an hour, lost a two goal lead before he changed it, and it was incredibly stupid tactical change as it was...we were completely dominating them....why change the shape!!? Bring Elliot on!!!!!!!!!!1.

He also is so cautios that whenever we get a lead he tries to protect it (RE: page 1 of things not to do in management: Sit back on a lead), we are completely outplaying Swiss, sitback, Israel in Israel hadn't had a shot yet...sit back, Israel in Dublin were on the ropes and looking like conceding 5...bring on Kavanagh..Defensive mid for Keane..striker, and play a 4-4-1-1....shocking.

1-0 Ireland tonight by the way

RasTa

I've gone against us toinght and slapped a 3 quid bet on Italy and England to win at 4/1

eirebhoy

DubGuy wrote:

we were out played for half an hour, lost a two goal lead before he changed it, and it was incredibly stupid tactical change as it was...we were completely dominating them....why change the shape!!? Bring Elliot on!!!!!!!!!!1.

Israel got into the game after 21-22 minutes. As I said, Keane didn't go off until the 27th minute. Their 2 best chances they created were while Robbie Keane was on the pitch. The first goal was because Matt Holland fouled someone close to the halfway line. The other was from a miskick from Given.

DubGuy wrote:

we are completely outplaying Swiss, sitback

We were lucky to get away with a win. They outplayed us, simple as that. We didn't sit back purposely, they were just the better team on the day.

Dubguy wrote:

Israel in Israel hadn't had a shot yet...sit back

We just kept possession. Kerr did not tell the players to sit on a 1-0 lead. Here's a few quotes:

Roy: “In saying that, we should still have killed the game off. We could have done more in the second half in terms of possession and testing their goalkeeper."

Kerr: “We didn’t create a whole lot, and could have been more incisive going forward"

Kav: "it certainly wasn't a conscious effort on the lads to sit back and defend deep"

You tell 11 Brazilians to go out and play possession football and they would tire the opposition off the park. You tell the Irish to do it and they'd bore you off the park. I can't find a certain quote I'm looking for but Kerr told the players to go out, push up and create more.

DubGuy wrote:

Israel in Dublin were on the ropes and looking like conceding 5...bring on Kavanagh..Defensive mid for Keane..striker, and play a 4-4-1-1....shocking.

It is clear you are trying to say Kerr took the conservative option against Israel. He didn't. He just changed the players around and played a 4-4-2. If you watched Kavanagh at club level before Kerr called him up for his first cap under him you will know that Kavanagh was more of an attacking midfielder than a defensive midfielder recently. He has the brain, defensive and passing ability to play the holding role so (like Roy Keane) has been transformed into a holding midfielder. He didn't play the holding role against Israel though. He was up and down the pitch like a lunatic with Matt Holland sitting. The players on the pitch were no more defensive than before Keane went off.

Anyway, good prediction. Del Piero said they won't be treating it like a friendly.

Necronomicon

There should be 2 seperate predictions; 1 for however long we get from the sides' first 11, then another prediction for the rest of the game when it becomes diluted with subsitutions.
I understand that subs need to be used, especially before such important qualifiers, but it becomes hard to watch a game when each side makes 6 changes.

But I think I'll go for 1-0 to us as well