Ireland -v- France...your starting 11?

Spider_Baby!

Yeah, trezeguet is suspended coz of the headbutt. I'd say Cisse will start, too but i dont know much about how the french play so he could be on the bench as cover for Henry....

eirebhoy

France's match against the Faroes is live on Setanta at 7.45 this Saturday. It will also be repeated a load of times on the same channel.

eirebhoy

Seaneh wrote:

I think the france team will be as follows.


Coupet.

Zebina Thuram Boumsong Gallas

Zidane Viera Dhorasoo

Wiltord Henry

Trezeguet


If that is the case they will cause us lots of problems.

It seems a lot of their players get injured when they see that they're playing us. Zebina has a thigh injury (same injury as Rothen) and Reveillere has replaced him.

Seaneh

good stuff, he can be a handfull attacking aswell as being a great defender.

BaZmO*

Draupnir wrote:

Clinton Morrison will start this game, without any shadow of a doubt.

Sorry. Yeah I mean't to say that he won't start Reid on either.

B.

redspider

With David Connolly signing for Wigan and Morrison signing for Palace, does this mean that Connolly should be once again considered for the Irish team? And if so, can he do a job for us?

I understand he is still only 28. He's not in the current squad, so is he injured or just out of favour? I have never been a fan of Connolly, but Morrison also has deficiencies. I think Connolly would make an ok sub for Morrison, so that we have another option apart from Elliot. And surely Connolly is better to have in the squad rather than Breen of Miller, two players which are just not good enough to play for Ireland (sorry Gary, thanks for the work you did but I'm just callnig a spade a spade!) ?

redspider

Big Nelly

redspider wrote:

With David Connolly signing for Wigan and Morrison signing for Palace, does this mean that Connolly should be once again considered for the Irish team? And if so, can he do a job for us?

I understand he is still only 28. He's not in the current squad, so is he injured or just out of favour? I have never been a fan of Connolly, but Morrison also has deficiencies. I think Connolly would make an ok sub for Morrison, so that we have another option apart from Elliot. And surely Connolly is better to have in the squad rather than Breen of Miller, two players which are just not good enough to play for Ireland (sorry Gary, thanks for the work you did but I'm just callnig a spade a spade!) ?

redspider

Should be called back into the squad, one thing we lack is strikers and if we have one playing in PL and getting his game should be in squad then! but we have to see how he gets on! still would rate Eliott ahead of him in the squad but if Eliott has crap season and Connolly doesnt then we will see! but maybe for next set of games after he has a few games in PL......

Would dump Breen, has shown he is crap at international and PL level and we have a good squad of up coming defender! in the middle we need all the help we can get so to kick out Miller now would be another dent in his confidence! ho0pefully will get a few games now with Utd after they let go of so many midfielders!!

tetsujin1979

If Connolly is playing well and scoring in the EPL, then of course he should be in the squad, but he should never start up front with Robbie, they don't play well together at all.

Vokes

Shay and Brian Kerr are fielding questions live online on Sunday. Or questions can be submitted now.

Kerr and Given in first Web chat

eircom.net will host the first ever web chat featuring members of the Irish Squad, on Sunday next, 4th September, ahead of Ireland’s crucial World Cup qualifier against France on Wednesday 7th Sept .

Ireland’s team manager, Brian Kerr and world class goalkeeper, Shay Given, will be on hand in the eircom.net studio between 6 pm and 7 pm on Sunday to answer those questions submitted by fans.

This is a great opportunity for fans to share their thoughts, suggestions and to get the answers to those questions they always wanted to ask.

To participate in the web chat, Fans should click on to www.eircom.net/totalfootball.

Questions may be submitted live on the night or at any time in advance of the web chat

In addition, fans can also send their best e-wishes to the team or their favourite player on this site.

Chardee MacDennis

have to go with

---

Given

---

Carr-Cunningham-O'Brien-Harte
S.Reid---Keane---O'Shea----A.Reid

---

Duff

---

---

Keane

---

When you play duff and reid wide they both end up on the same wing, and morrison is pants. keane playing off duff with the two reids on the wing with harte and carr supporting is the best attacking options we have but defensively its a weak side.

but the strongest defense is a strong offense, if we push on to them and put 'em under pressure we will get a result, its this laid back football of kerr's that drives me mad.

BaZmO*

Call_me_al wrote:

have to go with

---

Given

---

Carr-Cunningham-O'Brien-Harte
S.Reid---Keane---O'Shea----A.Reid

---

Duff

---

---

Keane

---

When you play duff and reid wide they both end up on the same wing, and morrison is pants. keane playing off duff with the two reids on the wing with harte and carr supporting is the best attacking options we have but defensively its a weak side.

but the strongest defense is a strong offense, if we push on to them and put 'em under pressure we will get a result, its this laid back football of kerr's that drives me mad.

Kerr will definitely play Morrison with Keane and to say he is pants is silly, with regards to this campaign anyway, he has scored 3 important goals so far. Hardly pants!

B.

Chardee MacDennis

i'm sorry i dont rate him, he doesnt make good runs, with or without the ball, he never creates his own chances, and he is hardly prolific in the air. most strikers can be in the right place at the right time, Heskey *cough cough*, and score a few , as long as the team are making chances.

but a quality striker needs to be able to create chances from nothing, thats why i would play duff, he can pick up the ball deep and run with it and at least set keane up if not go himself.

BaZmO*

Everybody knows he's no Henry, but he's the best of a bad bunch.

And would you really prefer to play probably one of the best Left Wingers in the world out of position for such and important match?

B.

Draupnir

Morrison gets a lot of undue stick, hes not a 30 goal a season striker, but he does a lot more for the team than Robbie most of the time, plus he plays his role well.

When Kerr picks Clinton, its not to bang in 2/3 goals, its to hold the ball up, chase down long balls and to try and set Robbie up for goals.

Clinton plays that role very well, against Italy he was poor, but that was his only bad game in terms of his own role within the team for about 2 years.

Necronomicon

I thought he was good against Italy. He didn't have much to do, but he chased down balls, made runs, had an excellent goal ruled out. It's hard being the lone-striker against defenders like the Italians.

PHB

but a quality striker needs to be able to create chances from nothing,

Thats just not true, Van Nist being the best example.

Morrision has done us a job, has preformed in big games, and gotten us the big goals. What more can we ask of him?
I'd like us to try my formation I outlined earlier, but we're going to stick to a 4-4-2, and we should use Morrision against the French, as he has been ebtter at putting it in the back of the net than Keane has this campaign

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

I'd like us to try my formation I outlined earlier, but we're going to stick to a 4-4-2

The formation that you suggested was ridiculous tbh. And besides, everybody knows that our best formation is a 4-4-2, always has been.

PHB wrote:

and we should use Morrision against the French, as he has been ebtter at putting it in the back of the net than Keane has this campaign

Not true. Robbie as 4 goals and Clint has 3.

B.

soma

Call_me_al wrote:

but a quality striker needs to be able to create chances from nothing

The goal morrison scored vs Israel away was hardly a clear-cut chance, yet he did brilliantly to score from a terrible angle.

One other thing, why the hell isnt David Connolly even in the squad..? Just signed for wigan & man do we lack strikers playing in the premiership.

Gileadi

i cant believe people think that duff should be left playing off keane

hes probably my fave player of the last few years but hes not a primary goal scorer and most of his goals seem to be fairly untidy (ireland v saudi arabia, chelsea v spurs, chelsea v porto...i could go on) and he does his best work on the wings. playing him loose will mean there should be somebody on the wings that could get in his way

also since the arrival of "the special one" his defensive duties have become alot stronger and having him play loose deprives ireland of some of this ability,we all know he has moments of magic but whenever he plays that role he doesnt seem comfortable and his positioning seems impared

and dont forget that he created 2 of the 3 of morrisons goals with crosses from the left...

PHB

The formation that you suggested was ridiculous tbh

I see what you've done here. Instead of actually disagreeing with it, and arguing with any of the valid points, you've just dismissed it. Oh well, you've changed my mind. Especially with the everyone knows arguement, quality. Infact now I'm going to start a campaign to ensure everybody knows that the 4-4-2 is the best system!
:rolleyes:

The 4-3-3 system plays to our strengths, and counters the French system very effectivly

Summary of Dave's theory:

How to stop French destroying us in attack?

MAkelele + Vieira + Zidane
-> Congested center, not much width, to further the lack of width france have anyway
Game will be won in the center.
Keaneo + O'Shea better at stopping the French than any other combo.
Should be midfield no matter what imo.

How to score against French?

Duff
Why can't 4-4-2 work?
Duff is key. He needs freedom to do his magic.
If he plays down the right wing, he is against Thuram, one of, if not the best, right back in the world.

Free Kicks
No width in french team, so Harte isn't really gona get shown up much. Finnan can handle Henry, who will stay on the french left side, so attacking Finnan. Harte gives us a free kick specialist, and a good chance of a goal.
How do we get those free kicks?
ZINEDINE KILBANE!
The guy gets us free kicks, and gets them in goal scoring chances.

I think if we play a 4-3-3, it will be the following:
Given
Finnan-Cunningham-O'Brien-Harte
Keano-O'Shea
Kilbane
Duff-Keano-Reid

BaZmO*

Yeah, you're right. Dave for the new Ireland Manager. :rolleyes:

B.

PHB

Ah yes, see what you did, nothing.
Yep, cause you've really nothign to say against it, except something in your head that says you don't like it. Thats fine, but don't dismiss other peoples ideas out of hand for no other reason than, well you're not sure...

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Thats fine, but don't dismiss other peoples ideas out of hand for no other reason than, well you're not sure...

Playing Keane as the focal point of the strike force is not a good idea. He cannot hold the ball up. He is a selfish player at times, and doesn't bring others into play very well.

Reid doesn't have enough pace to trickery to be one of the wide men.

With Keane not being able to hold the ball up front, ball retention would rest with the midfield. I wouldn't trust a midfield three comprising of Kevin Kilbane, John O'Shea and any other player in the world to hold onto the ball for too long.

Pepe LeFrits

There are suggestions that Domenech may drop Vieira for Makelele for the Ireland game. Which is quite ironic, considering Makelele originally retired because Domenech dropped him.

The guy is a grade A moron. Hurrah for us!

[Jackass]

---

Given

---

Carr

---

O'Brien

---

Cunningham

---

Finnan

---

Keane

---

O'Shea

---

A.Reid

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Morrison

---

Possible Substitutions:
Elliot For Morrison
Kilbane for Keane/O'Shea
S.Reid For A.Reid
McGeady for Duff
Dunne would be on my bench but would not play unless of injury to either back 2. Not able for pacy french.

redspider

PHB wrote:

Instead of actually disagreeing with it, and arguing with any of the valid points ...
The 4-3-3 system plays to our strengths, and counters the French system very effectivly
Summary of Dave's theory:
How to stop French destroying us in attack?
MAkelele + Vieira + Zidane
-> Congested center, not much width, to further the lack of width france have anyway
Game will be won in the center.
Keaneo + O'Shea better at stopping the French than any other combo.
Should be midfield no matter what imo.

How to score against French?
Duff
Why can't 4-4-2 work?
Duff is key. He needs freedom to do his magic.
If he plays down the right wing, he is against Thuram, one of, if not the best, right back in the world.

There are several holes in Dave's reasoning, without going through the whole lot.

The first is that the French will not be congested in the centre. Zidane gets out wide, Zidane creates space, they move the ball well across the field. They may not have dedicated wingers, but they will get players out wide. Henry will be out wide at times.

The next hole is that it is very unlikely for Kerr to play O'Shea in the centre of midfield.

The third is that Duff plays on the left.

The 4th is that recentky Thuram has been playing centre of defence.

Btw, who is Dave?


Overall, the argument will rage on whether 4-3-3 (or 4-1-4-1) is better than 4-4-2. I think with the job we have to do, we are better playing with two strikers. That may keep the French full-backs busier. We will also need more strikers around for dead ball situations, they tend to score more as they are more sharper, usually. Also, its questionable whether we have the right type of players to play 4-1-4-1. We dont have a brilliant holding midfielder, which is needed, nor do we have a brilliant target centre forward. I just dont think we have the personell for that type of system.

If I was Kerr though, I would be thinking about going for the draw, but all the while thinking about a big energetic start from the Irish which could put France on the back foot and get us a goal. We need two stikers for that initial burst, and maybe Kerr can change things later on as energy levels wain.

a tough match ahead lads ....

redspider

cournioni

---

Given

---

Finnan----Cunningham

---

O'Brien

---

Harte

---

Keane

---

O'Shea

---

A. Reid

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Morrison

---

TBH.

robz150

I think Kerr will go with one of the following options and I think the second one is more likely to be the starting eleven as Reid gives the ball away to much but could come on for Carr if we need a goal

---

Given

---

Finnan----Cunningham

---

O'Brien

---

O'Shea

---

Keane

---

Kilbane

---

A. Reid

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Morrison

---

=========================================

---

Given

---

Carr----Cunningham

---

O'Brien

---

O'Shea

---

Keane

---

Kilbane

---

Finnan

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Morrison

---

BaZmO*

robz150 wrote:

I think Kerr will go with one of the following options and I think the second one is more likely to be the starting eleven as Reid gives the ball away to much but could come on for Carr if we need a goal

---

Given

---

Finnan----Cunningham

---

O'Brien

---

O'Shea

---

Keane

---

Kilbane

---

A. Reid

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Morrison

---

=========================================

---

Given

---

Carr----Cunningham

---

O'Brien

---

O'Shea

---

Keane

---

Kilbane

---

Finnan

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Morrison

---

Yeah. If it wasn't one of those teams lining up on Wednesday evening I'd be shocked.

B.

PHB

Playing Keane as the focal point of the strike force is not a good idea. He cannot hold the ball up. He is a selfish player at times, and doesn't bring others into play very well.

He is a selfish player, but he has the ability to hold the ball up. I've seen him do it. He isn't world class at it, but he can do it.

Reid doesn't have enough pace to trickery to be one of the wide men.

Thats not required in all 4-5-1's.
Look at Chelsea, they have one trick man, Robben, and one deeper boring winger, Duff.

ball retention would rest with the midfield. I wouldn't trust a midfield three comprising of Kevin Kilbane, John O'Shea and any other player in the world to hold onto the ball for too long.

Why?
Keano and O'Shea pass the ball around for fun when they are together in the center.
Kilbane would be going forward more, but he has a decent short pass. All they have to do is channel the ball to Duff or Reid anyway. They are mostly destroys, something that Keane and O'Shea are very good at.

---

The first is that the French will not be congested in the centre. Zidane gets out wide, Zidane creates space, they move the ball well across the field. They may not have dedicated wingers, but they will get players out wide. Henry will be out wide at times.

Yep, at times players will get wide. Amazing observation.
But as a whole, they will be in the center of the park, trying to play it through route 1. Ever notice how many goals Arsenal score from crosses? Doesn't change the fact that play through the center all the time.
Zidane does like to drift to the left, as does Henry, which fits perfectly since Reid will be the borign winger and will have to track back.

The next hole is that it is very unlikely for Kerr to play O'Shea in the centre of midfield.

Thats not a hole, its about what Kerr will do, and really quite irrelevent, but not as much as the next comment.

The third is that Duff plays on the left.

Yes he does.
Much like in my formation.
However Duff needs to have more freedom than, Down the left.
He will be down the left most of the match, but giving him the freedom lest him do is magic wherever.

The 4th is that recentky(sic) Thuram has been playing centre of defence.

Thuram, Lilian
Boumsong, Jean-Alain
Gallas, William
Sagnol, Willy

Who's playing where?
p.s.
Rofl at Boumsong there and not Slyvestre.
I thought Slyvestre ahd been taken out cause somebody better came along, rofl.

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

Ah yes, see what you did, nothing.
Yep, cause you've really nothign to say against it, except something in your head that says you don't like it. Thats fine, but don't dismiss other peoples ideas out of hand for no other reason than, well you're not sure...

The reason why I didn't bother saying anything is twofold.

Firstly, some of "Dave's" suggestions are so ridiculous that there's no real point in analysing them. We will not be playing the system you put forward in a million years.

and secondly. Way too busy in work to be quoting and ripping apart people's ludicrous, fanciful and ill thought out suggestions.

B.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

He is a selfish player, but he has the ability to hold the ball up. I've seen him do it. He isn't world class at it, but he can do it.

Im sure Keane has held the ball up a few times in his career. But playing him as a lone striker is not a good idea.

PHB wrote:

Thats not required in all 4-5-1's.
Look at Chelsea, they have one trick man, Robben, and one deeper boring winger, Duff.

I said Reid doesnt have the pace or trickery, to which you replied look at Chelsea they only have one? Claiming Duff does't? FYI if that was remotely true would also be a mark against Ireland as Duff would apparently also have no pace or trickery. Joe Cole and SWP both have pace and trickery, thats why Cheslea can play that.

And O'Shea cannot pass the ball very well, whether he plays for Man United or not.

PHB

No sorry I didn't explain myself
In chelseas formation, there is one very attacking winger, who needs pace and trickery, and one who is mundane and sits back, and really just passes.
Duff does that for Chelsea, and you can see he is holding back while doing it, while Robben is allowed more freedom.

The same system could work for Ireland, except with Duff in the Robben role and Reid in the Duff role.

O'Shea is a good simple passer of the ball, he has shown it in the matches he has played in midfield, and even in the Italy game.

Seaneh

KEane isn't a good enough finisher to play as a lone striker.
Keane isn't strong enough to play as a lone striker.
Keane isn't tall enough to play as a lone striker.
Keane isn't even someone who should ever be considered as a lone striker.
If anything in your formation keane should play off a main striker, but thats besides the point, your formation is pants, your ideas of polayers and posisitons are pants and john o'sheás passing is pants!

Draupnir

I wonder if PHB is wearing any pants?

I agree with you by the way PHB

redspider

France didnt look fantastic but got a result. Cisse's spate of recent goals will mean that he will be trying shots on quite a lot during the match, so Given will have to be on his toes and the defence will need to have their wits about them to block him. Of course Cisse wont be the only threat, and Henry may up his performance. Makelele was solid, and Viera did quite good as well I thought. Interesting to see that France got plenty of players wide in the match.

France have a lot of respect for Ireland, so it will be interesting to see their approach for this game. I think Kerr has to play two strikers and occupy the French defence for the first 20 mins. A fast rapid start to this match is or best approach I think. The alternative is to play cautionary, go for a 0-0 until half-time, stroke the ball around, and try a push in the 2nd half. The good news is that France are beatable, so is it a mistake to give them too much respect?

redspider

woodyg

Given

Carr O'Brien Cunningham O'Shea

Finann Keane Kilbanne Duff


Keane Morrison


although i believe Kerr will go with Andy Reid wide right.

Thats my 2 cent any way.

All i want is a performance like the Holland Match

The Insider

The big problem at the moment is that Duff could be out witht the knee injury he picked up. Was watching the Irish team training yesterday and he sat out the whole session. When he came over to sign the autographs for the kids I asked him would he be fit for Wendesday but he just ignored me.

If he is out then we are in big trouble, to be honest the best result I can see us getting is a draw and I would be happy with that.

redspider

The Insider wrote:

The big problem at the moment is that Duff could be out witht the knee injury he picked up. Was watching the Irish team training yesterday and he sat out the whole session.

We will need Damien, but I hear there is good news:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/2005/0904/ireland.html

Also, he himself has said he will be ok for Wed. He's just resting up after a knock from a Chelsea training session and getting therapy, but all is expected to be well. He will be running on it tomorrow.

~Rebel~

I went home for lunch there and on the news they showed some of the training and commented that Duff has been doing full training and looked fine and fit - and had scored a few lovely goals too apparantly.

StickyMcGinty

any word on thuram/cisse for wednesday??

Catch_22

VinnyL wrote:

any word on thuram/cisse for wednesday??

both going to miss the game appearently.

jank

Given

Carr Dunne Cunningham O'Shea

Finann Keane Kilbanne Duff


Keane Morrison

A week ago i was confident that we would blow it, now im quietly cofident that we can do it. Beat France and we can top the group. Thats what at stake here
I hope they wont blow this oppertunity.