Alfa 147

Rew

Im considering a 01-02 147 and generally they seem like an alright buy but I remember friends with Alfa's (not 147's) have serious electrical problems.

Anyone got one or an opinion?

ds20prefecture

Rew wrote:

Anyone got one or an opinion?

You will have endless opinions from people who have never been near one saying "don't touch it". You will have a couple of people who owned Alfas (like me) saying "you'll never regret it" and you'll have one or two with a 147 giving you the opinion that you should listen to.

The 147 is effectively a hatchback 156. Great car. You'll never regret it

Have a look at these threads to see "opinions" about Alfas.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=239803
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=282219&highlight=alfa
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=280028&highlight=alfa
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=274117&highlight=alfa
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=259368&highlight=alfa

John R

Or you could get some unbiased opinions.
All of which come to the conclusion that Alfas, including the 147 are just about the most faulty unreliable cars available.

From: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/index.php?url=/carbycar/index.htm

FIAT/Alfa joint worst for breakdowns attended by German ADAC during 2001. Alfa Romeo 2nd least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002; 3rd least reliable cars 1997 - 1999. Several reports of 2.0 litre engine failures in 156s due to oil starvation when engines were full of oil points a finger at oil pump failure. Timing belts, tensioners and toothed/non toothed plastic rollers need changing way before scheduled 72k miles. See TSB to change them at 36k. Alfa Romeo had fourth highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 155.10 v/s lowest 31.93). Average for breakdowns and faults and poor for problems in 2003 Which survey. 22nd from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. 147 joint 10th bottom model and Alfa Romeo bottom marque in 2004 JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey.

I suggest you read the whole article. I am not saying don't buy one but be informed, there is a distinct possibility you will be on a first name basis with your mechanic if you do.

unkel

147 and 156 are great cars in all aspects bar that one

John R wrote:

I am not saying don't buy one but be informed

Or take it one step further than that. My best mate is on his 3rd 156 (currently a chipped 2.4JTD, bit of a beast). He always buys them 2 or 3 year old from main dealer and buys 2 year full warranty from the dealer. The warranty is cheaper than what a "more reliable" car would cost extra second hand so win-win situation there

BTW he has never had a serious issue with any of them, the warranty is for "just in case"

landser

there are loads of threads here re alfas. they're a love them or be hate them on the basis of something i read somewhere and things about them i've heard down the pub, sort of car.

i've a 156 1.8. 6 years old and 80k on the clock. i had a small problem with the lights which has now been fixed by putting in a new relay, which cost including labour about €50

Rew

Yeah seems like they are decent cars and best to stick with the 02 up.

HungryJoey

Not Hijacking your Thread. But i am in the market possibly for 1 of these aswel, Great feature's and nice look's. Ill keep my eye on this thread also

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=277252 That dash looks pretty damn nice. Great spec car. Might check that one out soon.


Hj

Einstein

I've got a 02 Alfa 147 Lusso.
No problems. Don't know my mechanic on a first name basis. Wouldn't even dream of selling.
It is true that the 01 models were awful hassle, and due to the problems effected the sales in 02 up. But I've had more hassles with a pen than I have with my 147.

ciarsd

John R wrote:

All of which come to the conclusion that Alfas, including the 147 are just about the most faulty unreliable cars available.

:rolleyes: gotta love the stereotypical ignorant comments from someone with little or no experience of the cars they are commenting on!

im an owner of a 02, bought it from a main dealer, have had no reliability issues with it what-so-ever. never once let me down. was back for a WW product recall (variator issue) replaced FOC and replacement car given for the day.

for all the cars in a similar class, you will not get better than the 147 for level of standard equipment, looks, style, comfort and individuality

kyote00

As a 156 owner since '99 --- I believe that the poor reliability perception is very
overstated.

However there are a few things to watch out for:

- mass air flow sensor (about 300euro to replace) seems to fail -- causing lumpy acceleration. Check if you car has had it replaced or if they are any hestitation when you accelerate.
- variator. Check for any noises when starting.
- front brake discs seems to need to be changed around 70k
- depreciation is a killer

The 156 is to be replaced by the 159 before the end of the year, so I expect prices of the 156 will drop even further

CCOVICH

I have just bought an 02 147 Lusso . Have been wanting one for the last few months now, will collect tomorrow. 32k miles, and new timing belt, so hopefully another 30k miles before I have to worry about that again.

Filling my old car (Almera ) at Clare Hall around 2 weeks ago, and there is a guy in a 02 147 next to me at the pumps and again in the queue (conincidence?). I told him I was interested in buying a 147, and he told me he had the car for over a year, no problems, and had a 156 before that, and no problems either (I'm not sure if he was one of these biased Boards users ).

My own mechanic says they are hit and miss, which is pretty much the impression I have, but then what cars aren't?

Anyway, I can't wait to take it home with me. Deceptively quick, I was well over 80mph on the Arklow bypass without realising it, and the interior is great, and quality alloys.

I'm just sorry that I missed out on ciarsd's

Savage looking car. But have you seen the GTA :eek:

John R

ciarsd wrote:

:rolleyes: gotta love the stereotypical ignorant comments from someone with little or no experience of the cars they are commenting on!

Personal insults, how nice.

Speaking of ignorant. Exactly what do you know of my experience?
If you had properly read my post you will see that it gives evidence to back up my position.
That evidence btw comes from surveys of large numbers of Alfa owners, but I suppose they are all ignorant too because you disagree with their conclusions.

ciarsd wrote:

im an owner of a 02, bought it from a main dealer, have had no reliability issues with it what-so-ever. never once let me down. was back for a WW product recall (variator issue) replaced FOC and replacement car given for the day.

Three whole years from new without a fault, is that supposed to be impressive? For most makes a major fault within that period would be the exception.

I know of two people who bought Alfas from new (146 and 166) and had anything but a trouble free time. The 166 owned by a former boss of mine went back to the dealership eight times in it's first year for a range of problems some serious.
I was acutely aware of all it's faults because I spent a large part of that year ferrying the Alfa owner around in my 13 year old Mitsubishi which had done 250,000 miles without one visit to a mechanic save for regular services and consumables. Find an Alfa that can do half that age/mileage without a fault then try calling me ignorant.

ciarsd

John R wrote:

Personal insults, how nice.

Speaking of ignorant. Exactly what do you know of my experience?
If you had properly read my post you will see that it gives evidence to back up my position.
That evidence btw comes from surveys of large numbers of Alfa owners, but I suppose they are all ignorant too because you disagree with their conclusions.

nope, i believe I've quoted you right, and in fact you have mis-quoted me!

You have NO personal experience of an Alfa 147, all your comments are on 3rd party comments/hear say and basically jumping on the bandwagon. I was nearly not buying a 147 from listening to comments like your's above, but I did my research, and took it upon myself to make my own mind up and see for myself. A decision that I am best pleased with.

Funny how in your argument you have used both the 146 & 166 as your examples to back up your ignorant claim that a 147 is faulty and unreliable!

If you really knew anything about Alfa's then you would realise that both the above are VASTLY different to a 147 in all departments - the car in which the original poster is looking for info. on. :rolleyes:

John R wrote:

Three whole years from new without a fault, is that supposed to be impressive? For most makes a major fault within that period would be the exception.

nope not supposed to be impressive, it is just fact and my own personal experience. It is as i would expect for the amount of money it cost me. My point was, it's an Alfa it hasn't broken down or become unreliable - contrary to what you have posted

HungryJoey

I couldn't of said it better my self Ciarsd. Agreed 100% although never owned a alfa 147 but i agree with your point 101%


Anyway... Any owners of Alfa 147's, can you's tell me where the rear speaker's are located. Yes i know its a funny question but something i need to know. Are they on the rear shelf or door ? I hope they are on the Shelf or near by.


I am seriously considering going to look at a 147 when i get home. Its No1 On my list right now

Hj

Turner

From spreaking to my Father who was in charge of a fleet of about 80 cars, he would never again touch an Alfa/Fiat. Gave him so many headaches trying to repair the cars for his colleagues.

When the 156 first came out many company reps chose it as a company car due to its style and looks. However most never got the chance to drive them as they spent most of their time on the ramp in garages. Out of 16 alfas i think 4 had problems with leaking roofs!!
Something youd expect maybe in a 1984 mini, not a 2000 Alfa.

But then again maybe all the Alfas he bought were the exception, even so his company tended to buy Mondeos and passats in the future.

ciarsd

HungryJoey wrote:

Anyway... Any owners of Alfa 147's, can you's tell me where the rear speaker's are located. Yes i know its a funny question but something i need to know. Are they on the rear shelf or door ? I hope they are on the Shelf or near by.

Hj

rear speakers are on rear quarter panel cards on 3dr & rear door cards on 5dr
BOSE system has the same layout

ciarsd

Chief--- wrote:

From spreaking to my Father who was in charge of a fleet of about 80 cars, he would never again touch an Alfa/Fiat. Gave him so many headaches trying to repair the cars for his colleagues.

When the 156 first came out many company reps chose it as a company car due to its style and looks. However most never got the chance to drive them as they spent most of their time on the ramp in garages. Out of 16 alfas i think 4 had problems with leaking roofs!!
Something youd expect maybe in a 1984 mini, not a 2000 Alfa.

But then again maybe all the Alfas he bought were the exception, even so his company tended to buy Mondeos and passats in the future.

i'd agree with you regarding the first release 156 models Chief. As this was a brand new design, brand new car, there were definitely some design flaws and issues, however that was in 00 on mostly 00 & 01 cars, from 02 onwards most if not all of the known issues were resolved. With regard to the 147, similar story with initial release models (2001) but 2002 shouldn't see any abnormal issues.

boardsee

You gotta love the way all these ALfa defenders will only buy an alfa themselves if it has low mileage, and is a `01/02 new as possible and state they`re getting a good one because it has had its timing belt changed at 36000miles. :rolleyes: Sort of limiting the damage behaviour. What other car would you need to change the timing belt at such ridicously low milage,,, 32000miles is fookin nothing, a yrs driving to some people, yr and a half maybe and you have to change the timing belt. :eek:

No one wil argue that they dont look good but if you get a bad one, its not much good looking good down the garage. They`re risky to buy and hard to shift later on when you want a class reliable 1994 honda civic how cars should be made. Easily do over 200,000 reliable miles for a petrol

Best compromise is get a 156 body amnd throw a 1.6 vtec in it.

Turner

or a 318i engine into it.

Timing chain is the only way to go.

HungryJoey

ciarsd wrote:

rear speakers are on rear quarter panel cards on 3dr & rear door cards on 5dr
BOSE system has the same layout

Thanks for the info But im slightly confused sorry Is that basically rear speaker's are on the rear door's then ? I was hoping they were either on the shelf or on the side of the shelf where the plastic Bit is to support the shelf.

Hj

testicle

boardsee wrote:

What other car would you need to change the timing belt at such ridicously low milage,,, 32000miles is fookin nothing, a yrs driving to some people, yr and a half maybe and you have to change the timing belt. :eek:

Good old (97/98) Opel used to be 36k... Not to sure what it is now though...

HashSlinging

I love the 147, such a nice looking car, was going to buy one once (01) but my other half made me buy a golf! sold that after a couple of months got a leon. looking forward to buying another one in jan... so my advice would be go buy the car and enjoy it!!! dont mind the what anyone else says but yeah, your doing the right thing by researching it.

Cyrus

ds20prefecture wrote:

You will have endless opinions from people who have never been near one saying "don't touch it". You will have a couple of people who owned Alfas (like me) saying "you'll never regret it" and you'll have one or two with a 147 giving you the opinion that you should listen to.

a rare statement of sense in a minefield of a thread,

@ boardsee of they are so bad why were you offering to buy a 156 on the fs board

ciarsd

HungryJoey wrote:

Thanks for the info But im slightly confused sorry Is that basically rear speaker's are on the rear door's then ? I was hoping they were either on the shelf or on the side of the shelf where the plastic Bit is to support the shelf.

Hj

yup, sorry. rear speakers on a 5dr are in the doors...

ds20prefecture

Cyrus wrote:

@ boardsee of they are so bad why were you offering to buy a 156 on the fs board

Ignore Boardsee - he is a tireless troll. Has yet to post one constructive comment on any forum.

@Cheif "Timing chain is the only way to go"

No, it isn't. Very few manufacturers still use timing chains. Timing belts are lighter, quieter, cheaper and every bit as reliable as chains when serviced properly. You've trotted out this crap before - a timing chain is a moving part in an engine - therefore it has a service schedule. Being made of metal, that service schedule is a good bit longer (2 or 3 times typically) than if you use a timing belt. But it is still a service item, just like the timing belt. So you need to change your timing belt more often - so what? In some engines you need to change the oil more often. This does not make an engine intrinsically unreliable.

By the way - BMW use timing belts on most of their 4 cylinder and some 6 cylinder engines. Their service interval is 50000 miles. Does that make these cars unreliable?

ds20prefecture

Chief--- wrote:

From spreaking to my Father who was in charge of a fleet of about 80 cars, he would never again touch an Alfa/Fiat. Gave him so many headaches trying to repair the cars for his colleagues.

When the 156 first came out many company reps chose it as a company car due to its style and looks. However most never got the chance to drive them as they spent most of their time on the ramp in garages. Out of 16 alfas i think 4 had problems with leaking roofs!!
Something youd expect maybe in a 1984 mini, not a 2000 Alfa.

<Snip from other threads:>
In 2000, my company ran 5 156s (1 x 1.6, 3 x 2.0, 1 x V6), all from new, each up to about 50,000 miles. Not one fault with any of them. We also had a Marea which behaved faultlessly, but was a bit of a pig to drive. We ran 2 new Mercs, both had problems (primarily electrical) both were eye wateringly expensive and both were dull as dishwater.

My brother ran a 1.8 156 to 100,000 miles without issue. It broke his heart to sell the car (he had to buy a Scenic - a victim of his own virility). Thats what you get when you buy Alfa - a car that you love.

The 156 is not an intrinsically unreliable car. Get one with a complete and regular service history, no accident history and as low a mileage as you can afford. Make sure all the important work is done on it and your laughing. Buy from a dealer and get a guarantee if you want to manage the so called "risks". This applies to ANY car, not just the 156.
</snip>

I would suggest the same applies to the 147 - but I don't have hands on experience of them, so you should listen to those that do.

prospect

Before I begin:
I am a HUGE Alfa fan. I love em, I love em, I love em.

But I'm trying, I'm trying real hard to cast fair judgement on them as I am considering the 150Bhp, 1.9Jtd Mutijet 147 as my new car in January.

As some of you may remember, I posted a couple of months back that my Dads 2.5L V6 166 had suffered engine failure. I was massively dissappointed, and had so many people say 'I told you so' and 'Alfas are crap'. And I had to agree.

But there was light at the end of the tunnel:
Two independent engineers assessed the car, and seemingly the reason for failure was due to a overdue service (car running on 'dead' oil).
Also, when we added up the cost of the original car, and the replacement engine, and compared it to a similar spec 5 Series BMW, The Alfa was still cheaper. And considering the cars new engine has 0 miles, it has a higher resale value to a BMW of the same year?

But all that put aside. Even if you do get trouble from your Alfa, It is still worth it for the unmatched driving experience. It brings a big smile to my face every time.

So my advice to the OP. Save up the €40K to buy a decent spec 1 series BMW. But, buy a decent spec 147 for €28K, and the €12K saving should be adequate insurance against depreciation and potential trouble. And enjoy sheer pleasure motoring.

jayok

Cheif "Timing chain is the only way to go"

No, it isn't. Very few manufacturers still use timing chains

Actually, the higher end manufactuers have gone away from belts and back to using timing chains!

The latest iVTEC engines from Honda use a multi-link, multi-band lightweight chain that will last the lifetime of the engine. Apparently with no stretching of the thing they can perform better tuning for economy and performance.

So actually timing chains are the way to go!

ds20prefecture

jayok wrote:

Actually, the higher end manufactuers have gone away from belts and back to using timing chains!

Ah but what about direct drive camshafts? Or electromagnetic valve actuation? or rotary valves? Each of these knock timing chains AND belts into a cocked hat. Timing chains are a valid approach - my point is that so are timings belts. They just have different service intervals.
PS: My car has a timing chain.

jayok

direct drive camshafts? Or electromagnetic valve actuation? or rotary valves? Each of these knock timing chains AND belts into a cocked hat

Absolutely - but, for example, how many electromagnetically actuated value engines do you find in production cars? More specialist and prototype I think. Whereas the timing chain used by Honda is now to be introduced across the range of their iVTEC engines which is mass produced in the Accord and will be mass produced in the new Civic.

So from Chief's original statement "Timing chains are the way to go" they probably are, but only if of course they are the right type of chain.

ds20prefecture

Chief--- wrote:

or a 318i engine into it.

Timing chain is the only way to go.

(my emphasis).

I'm fairly sure that the 318i has a timing belt too.

Edit: And since when are Honda a "higher end manufacturer"?