Hate Laws?

Baggio

For me all that nasty metal stuff bashing cristianty is a disgrace,,and fules hatred,,,,music, especially rock music is about spirit and entertainment, not some nasty "get at them as much as ya can" kind of attitude , whats their beef i wonder??..I find nothing remotely "entertaining" in insulting and running down a faith no matter what it is, for me these so called "stars" are nothing short of foul mouthed insulting hogs, no respect for them whatsoever.
The new Law??...anti muslim?..possibly..is a fine line to walk a law that stops fanatiscm yet doesnt want to impinge on rights. But guess what humanity isn't perfect..God alone has perfect laws,,is up to each individual to live life in accordance with that, or in their on way..this is called freewill.
I have no problem with other faiths, went to school in UK with every sort, am proud to be a church going man, never want to be anything else either. SO I dont take kindly to folks wearing stuff thats blatantly insulting to Christianity, its what I believe in, and I make noo apologies for it. Doesnt mean I cant enjoy great Rock music and hey i do!... so thats my 10c's worth...but anyway really this subject is tooo serious and important to be in this "music" forum I think most would agree there.

ciao' amigos...Baggio....

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

scouser.tommy wrote:

Actually, one person; goes by the name of Jesus, can tell you how to live your life.
.

apollonius christ!

I'm allowed to tell people I despise them. I wouldn't have called him clueless if he wasn't so obviously ignorant as to what he's talking about. Maybe I shouldn'tve called him a jerk, but I feel it really was warranted.

Jesus wouldn't have. You should be ashamed of yourself, but you're probably not.

Fine, DoctorJ, I'm a bad christian, but don't judge christianity by my actions, or any other layman or clergyman who may or may not be a good christian - judge christianity by christ alone.

so should we judge america by Bush alone? Christianity is made up of christians. Jesus Christ died a long time ago. He really isn't relevant in this day and age.

Ruaidhri said...

it's my view that religion causes too many blinkered bigoted views, and as such should be outlawed. no one person or book can tell you how to lead your life.

no, blinkered bigots cause blinkered bigoted views. it's just that blinkered bigots tend to like Religion. It's simple and uncomplicated, doesn't warrant any unnessecary thinking.

Doctor J

scouser.tommy wrote:

I'm allowed to tell people I despise them. I wouldn't have called him clueless if he wasn't so obviously ignorant as to what he's talking about. Maybe I shouldn'tve called him a jerk, but I feel it really was warranted.

Fine, DoctorJ, I'm a bad christian, but don't judge christianity by my actions, or any other layman or clergyman who may or may not be a good christian - judge christianity by christ alone.

You seem to think I'm being a hypocrite, but you are wrong. Got it? I'm not telling him to be christian, I'm just rebuking him ( and I'm justified in doing so) for saying "religion should be outlawed".

Yes, I know it's okay to disagree with people, did you think I was unaware of that?

How about addressing my actual point for a change instead of just criticising the way I'm making it?

I'm not judging you or any religion at all. I'm just disappointed that you continually resort to personal abuse when you don't like someone's comments. You seem to think it's ok to insult people here, well it's not. Cop on to yourself. This is an area for discussion. By and large this is a good natured forum with plenty of scope for different viewpoints and opinions. If you disagree with that and think you have the right to insult people just because they have a different opinion to you or make a comment you don't like then you need to have a good look at yourself. Seriously, I've lost count of how many threads where you've lost the rag and started hurling abuse at people. You've got to calm down and engage in dialogue, think before you start chastising someone. That's what grown ups do. Show some respect. "Do onto others..."

As for your point? Which one? Jesus? There are lots of religions stretching back to the dawn of time. Who's to say Christianity is the right way? As you'll see by my posts I don't endorse haterd of any kind, nor would I say I'm affiliated to any spitirual organisation, I try to live a good life and show respect to others. I decide what I do and how I live. Does that make me a bad person? Well, I'm not the agressive one here, that's for sure. I will say this, if you can't abide by the rules of Christianity (or any religion for that matter) then don't impose it on others until you can.

Karl Hungus

scouser.tommy wrote:

I commend you for that much. Would you care to explain how you arrived at the conclusion that Buddha, and not Jesus, is that one person?

Only if you explain how you arrived at the conclusion that Jesus, and not Buddha (Or Allah, or Odin, or any other deity for that matter) without falling back on dogmatic hand-me-downs first.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Ancient1 wrote:

Because of this:


Just listen to yourself. You're hysterical. Who hates you? What are you talking about? Why are you so touchy and sensitive?

You're the one who's hysterical, methinks. Who hates me? I don't know, you tell me; you're the one who called me "little christian", like it was a derogatory term.

I'm talking about religious beliefs, haven't you figured that out yet?

If I appear touchy or sensitive, it's probably because I am. It matters to me when people slag my beliefs or slag me for having them. I wish I could make other people see the truth, and it's so frustating for me when their minds are so closed.

Doctor J

Baggio wrote:

but anyway really this subject is tooo serious and important to be in this "music" forum I think most would agree there.

+1

Ancient1

forum full of people who will probably hate you for them

These are your words.

Ancient1

I wish I could make other people see the truth

Damn.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Mordeth wrote:

apollonius christ!
blinkered bigots cause blinkered bigoted views. it's just that blinkered bigots tend to like Religion. It's simple and uncomplicated, doesn't warrant any unnessecary thinking.

You're talking utter rubish there. Religion is neither simple nor uncomplicated. It warrants thinking, lots of it. I have to ask myself whether every action I take is morally right or wrong, before I do it; religion warrants caution and consideration with every action. I don't know how you got the foolish idea that it was simple.

Ph3n0m

scouser.tommy wrote:

Why did you bother saying that? I might understand if it was actually funny, but that was so pointless. I don't get it. If you disagree with me, why not have the balls to come out and make your point? But don't just sit there taking cheap little potshots at my beliefs - that's cowardly. Why not put your beliefs on the line, against mine?

ouch, how hyper-sensitive are you today. What I said was a quote from a tshirt I have, which I find funny - twasn't a dig at your beliefs. I dont disgree with you, because I dont even know what point you were trying to make

And another thing - please, please stop talking about my balls - in fact I thought "your" religion was against that

This message was brought to you by me and the power of the internet

Karl Hungus

scouser.tommy wrote:

You're talking utter rubish there. Religion is neither simple nor uncomplicated. It warrants thinking, lots of it. I have to ask myself whether every action I take is morally right or wrong, before I do it; religion warrants caution and consideration with every action. I don't know how you got the foolish idea that it was simple.

You're waffling away without a context like an asumed martyr here Tommy... Mordeth never said that Religion is simple or uncomplicated, merely that the bigots = biggoted view, and that's what he's refering to as simple to understand.

Although as uncomplicated a point as it may be, you need to take a deep breath and actually bother to read what's there in front of you, because as it is, it looks like you're looking for things to jump down someone's throat for.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Karl Hungus wrote:

You're waffling away without a context like an asumed martyr here Tommy... Mordeth never said that Religion is simple or uncomplicated, merely that the bigots = biggoted view, and that's what he's refering to as simple to understand.

Although as uncomplicated a point as it may be, you need to take a deep breath and actually bother to read what's there in front of you, because as it is, it looks like you're looking for things to jump down someone's throat for.

Actually, he did say that religion was simple and uncomplicated. Go back and read his post please.

Karl Hungus

Mordeth wrote:

no, blinkered bigots cause blinkered bigoted views. it's just that blinkered bigots tend to like Religion. It's simple and uncomplicated, doesn't warrant any unnessecary thinking.

I'm reading it, and I still see his equation about bigots = biggoted views, and the notion that the bigots in religion giving it an air of biggotry. You take it out of the context that it was in, which is replying to Ruiadhri's notion that religion itself that causes biggotry. If you ever bothered to read and understand it, it would probably be a point you could get behind, Tommy.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Karl, if you really do want me to explain how I came to believe in christianity, I will explain it. But it will take quite a long time, and patience and open-mindedness on your part. I think if i tried to do it here I would probably just get random death-metallers coming in and slagging christianity though

Ancient1

Please don't explain. Take it to the christianity forum.

random death-metallers coming in and slagging christianity though

It's not that simple, Tommy.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Karl Hungus wrote:

I'm reading it, and I still see his equation about bigots = biggoted views, and the notion that the bigots in religion giving it an air of biggotry. You take it out of the context that it was in, which is replying to Ruiadhri's notion that religion itself that causes biggotry. If you ever bothered to read and understand it, it would probably be a point you could get behind, Tommy.

No, you're right, I agree with him when he says that it is bigots, and not religion, who cause blinkered views, but, he goes on to say that bigots are attracted to religion because "it is simple and uncomplicated"...."doesn't warrant any unnessecary thinking". <-- That is the part I really disagree with.

Ph3n0m

scouser.tommy wrote:

Karl, if you really do want me to explain how I came to believe in christianity, I will explain it. But it will take quite a long time, and patience and open-mindedness on your part. I think if i tried to do it here I would probably just get random death-metallers coming in and slagging christianity though

Christianity, buddhism, nihilists, in fact anyone in general irrespective of colour, creed or religion are open game for slagging - we death metallers are equal opportunists (inbetween the goat sacrifices and having our filthy way with nubile virgins)

Karl Hungus

scouser.tommy wrote:

Karl, if you really do want me to explain how I came to believe in christianity, I will explain it.

Where on earth did you get the idea I wanted you to explain how you came upon your beliefs? Because I remember asking you how you think you're beliefs are any more 'Correct' than anyone else. Read and understand before replying thanks.

Karl Hungus

scouser.tommy wrote:

No, you're right, I agree with him when he says that it is bigots, and not religion, who cause blinkered views, but, he goes on to say that bigots are attracted to religion because "it is simple and uncomplicated"...."doesn't warrant any unnessecary thinking". <-- That is the part I really disagree with.

Perhaps... But doesn't your religion rely more on Faith than thinking?

pbsuxok1znja4r

Karl Hungus wrote:

Where on earth did you get the idea I wanted you to explain how you came upon your beliefs? Because I remember asking you how you think you're beliefs are any more 'Correct' than anyone else. Read and understand before replying thanks.

FFS, you know what I'm saying. When I asked you to explain how you came to the conclusion that Buddha was the person who could tell people how to live, you responded by asking me to first explain why I believed Jesus was that person, "without falling back on dogmatic hand-me-downs", do you remember saying that?

Doctor J

scouser.tommy wrote:

probably just get random death-metallers coming in and slagging christianity though

You don't hold others in high regard do you? Give people a chance Tommy, most humans are lucid and underneath the bravado are capable of understanding logic and reason. If you explain yourself well you will get, if not agreement, at least respect. If you just make rash generalisations and insult people you'll just get contempt.

I'm not slagging you for your beliefs, I just have a problem with how you carry yourself sometimes. Your beliefs are just as valid as mine or anyone elses here. All deserve respect. Lashing out at someone who disagrees with you for your beliefs is just as bad as someone wearing one of the aforementioned garments.

It's all about respect for one another

Karl Hungus

scouser.tommy wrote:

FFS, you know what I'm saying. When I asked you to explain how you came to the conclusion that Buddha was the person who could tell people how to live, you responded by asking me to first explain why I believed Jesus was that person, "without falling back on dogmatic hand-me-downs", do you remember saying that?

...

Lovely...
The entire point that I made just flew straight over your head...

Lets dumb it down. I don't think that Buddha is the only person to tell people how to live. I don't believe there is any such thing. But my point is simply to question why you believe you're any more correct than any other faith?

pbsuxok1znja4r

Karl Hungus wrote:

Perhaps... But doesn't your religion rely more on Faith than thinking?

I don't know what you mean... Faith doesn't necessarily tell you the right thing to do in a moral dilemma.

Ruaidhri

Would it be fair to, at this point,say that this thread is a good argument FOR my initial statement?

I find your comment about random death metallers insulting and narrow minded to a point. did jesus not say "love your fellow man" and "judge not, least ye be judged yourself?" ok imperfect quotes, but it's been about 12 years since i had any dealing with a bible. would it be fair to say you dont follow Jesus's advice?

yes scouser.tommy, i was brought up as a christian, but i saw how the teachings were designed to encourage LACK of though, and hatred against anyone who is not christian.

i have no problem having an INTELLECTUAL DEBATE with you, but i refuse to lower myself to the point of name calling, insulting other people and generally being anti-christian.

as you can probably see you already have raised a lot of other people's hackles.

oh one more thing. look at the quote in my sig. and think about that.

Ancient1

But my point is simply to question why you believe you're any more correct than any other faith?

This is why, KH:

scouser.tommy wrote:

I wish I could make other people see the truth, and it's so frustating for me when their minds are so closed.

May these words haunt you forever, Tommy.

Töpher

scouser.tommy wrote:

If I appear touchy or sensitive, it's probably because I am. It matters to me when people slag my beliefs or slag me for having them. I wish I could make other people see the truth, and it's so frustating for me when their minds are so closed.

It's not the peoples minds are closed, its that many people have their own beliefs, in a similar vein to how you have yours. Though not all of them involve the same beliefs as yourself, surely the Christian thing to do is to respect theirs as you would wish them to respect yours? No person can claim their own as the "truth", as at the end of the day it is all down to opinion and personal belief, not fact.

Claiming that people who don't share your beliefs are close-minded won't win you many followers, as it is the superior-than-thou attitude and attempts to force beliefs that so many people grow to despise within organised religions.

Besides, I add another vote to the "Too Serious" campaign

pbsuxok1znja4r

Karl Hungus wrote:

...

Lovely...
The entire point that I made just flew straight over your head...

Lets dumb it down. I don't think that Buddha is the only person to tell people how to live. I don't believe there is any such thing. But my point is simply to question why you believe you're any more correct than any other faith?

Saying things like "let's dumb it down" really pisses me off. Is that an attempt to make me appear stupid or something? It's not my fault if you couldn't get your point across clearly.

Okay, you want to know why I believe christianity is more correct, i.e. more true, than other faiths. Well, how about I start by telling you why I think Jesus was genuine when he said he was the son of God? Thus I will begin to prove that christianity is the most true religion. (Not that there is not measure of truth in many other religions, for one of the good things about christianity, is that it does not require it's followers to believe that all other religions are just wrong - unlike atheism, which must believe that.)

Karl Hungus

I'd like to give a thought to you fine people here.

I don't respect anyone's beliefs. Why should I? A belief is something that anyone can hold, and reguardless of how important it might be to them, it's entirely inimportant to me, so I will not hide behind the pretence of "Respecting" someone's beliefs out of politeness if I have no respect for that belief itself. No, I will either respect the person, or nothing at all. Because in my view, that's the only thing that deserves respect.

Töpher

You can't PROVE anything, sheesh.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Ancient1 wrote:

This is why, KH:



May these words haunt you forever, Tommy.

I think it's about time you ****ed off, mate, don't you?
You're not really contriuting anything valid to this debate, you're just jumping in and taking pot-shots at me personally.

Please don't bother pointing out the irony of a christian saying something as un-christian-like as "**** off", btw.