Maiden in UK Top Ten Shocker

cournioni

Ph3n0m wrote:

and yet no one has a problem purchasing their albums, singles, tshirts, video and dvds - which in the past some of which have been known to carry a union jack on it.

as for megadeth, they didnt wave a flag but mustaine dedicated "anarchy in the uk" to the "caused", little knowing what the "cause" was

Yes, no one has problems purchasing any of their merchandise. I myself only have the cd's to be honest and Piece of Mind, with the Union Jack on the back of it is one of them. To be honest I don't like the look of it but it is a good album IMO so I bought it. I am also going to the concert to see a good gig, and I will certainly boo the Union Jack if it comes out.

I was merely pointing out to Civilian Target that the booing isn't small minded in all cases. He probably hasn't been affected by British rule in the north so it is understandable. But some people have, so it is quite ironic that he is calling those who boo small minded.

As for the Mustaine story, yes I'm well aware of all of that. I'm just pointing out that, that is what could happen when Maiden wave the flag around like that.

Ph3n0m

PORNAPSTER wrote:

.....I am also going to the concert to see a good gig, and I will certainly boo the Union Jack if it comes out.

But you dont live up north nor (I presume) have been affected directly by British rule - so why bother booing?

Does that mean if an American band came over and flew the stars and stripes, or in fact any other band from any other country in the world - would you boo them?

Tazz T

Sure a lot of people who boo at Dickinson's flag waving aren't doing it out of hatred - simply out of taking the piss out of the English. I think most of it is lighthearted - just a bit of slagging.

BTW I was born in the North.

Ancient1

A flag has no intrinsic meaning other than the meaning you give it.

It's that simple.

Doctor J

Ancient1 wrote:

A flag has no intrinsic meaning other than the meaning you give it.

It's that simple.

Deadwing

Ph3n0m wrote:

Does that mean if an American band came over and flew the stars and stripes, or in fact any other band from any other country in the world - would you boo them?

I get the feeling if you flew a big stars n stripes in pretty much any country in the world now youd get booed.
And whether pornapster was directly affected by british rule isnt the point here, people would boo the union jack here because of its affect on the country as a whole, its still a pretty touchy subject and its a pretty stupid, and insensitive thing to do, in ireland of all places.
could you imagine going on tour in iraq and waving a massive star spangled banner at all your gigs while singing a song about the glory of the US army??

Doctor J

But yet Irish people have no problem waving the tricolour around in England, given the carnage caused there in the name of that flag?

Deadwing

Yeah but when was the last time U2 played in london and bono waved a big tricolour around and sang about how great it is to be in the irish army. I get the feeling hed be pelted off the stage if he did tbh

Doctor J

What do U2 have to do with anything? Maiden have a song about a British trooper in the Crimean War back when the whole of Ireland was a part of Britain and no doubt plenty of Irish men died in that battle under that flag. All Bruce does is a theatrical representation of the famous artwork. He's not promoting potato blight, he's not saying Ireland sucks, he's not cheering on the UVF or the RUC. You'll notice he wears a red coat too.

It's a part of every Iron Maiden show. Everybody knows it. If this offends you, then don't go. It's that simple

Ronan|Raven

The union jack also encompassed (is that even a word!?) the flags of the nations in the isles, st patricks cross making up the red diagonal on white part.

It's a part of every Iron Maiden show. Everybody knows it. If this offends you, then don't go. It's that simple

Well Said.

Doctor J

What's worse is people knowing it's going to happen, paying in to see it, booing when they wave the flag and then cheering the band when they're not waving the flag either side of the flag waving (while most likely singing the lyrics too).

That doesn't make any sense to me.

cournioni

Ph3n0m wrote:

But you dont live up north nor (I presume) have been affected directly by British rule - so why bother booing?

Because I have friends that have been affected directly by it.

Ph3n0m

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Because I have friends that have been affected directly by it.

so do I, but I dont feel I have to boo for the sake of booing - in fact I have to agree with Doctor J on this one

Deadwing

Doctor J wrote:

What do U2 have to do with anything? Maiden have a song about a British trooper in the Crimean War back when the whole of Ireland was a part of Britain and no doubt plenty of Irish men died in that battle under that flag. All Bruce does is a theatrical representation of the famous artwork. He's not promoting potato blight, he's not saying Ireland sucks, he's not cheering on the UVF or the RUC. You'll notice he wears a red coat too.

It's a part of every Iron Maiden show. Everybody knows it. If this offends you, then don't go. It's that simple

I'm well aware of what the song is about, and i never said it offended me. It does on the other hand offend quite alot of people in this country. I used U2 as an example, if youd read it properly. All im saying is maiden should respect that fact that waving a union jack around a room full of irish people and singing about the english army is going to piss some people off, and have the common sense to think 'hmm maybe waving a union jack around a contry that suffered so much under british rule might be a *tad* insensitive'.
surely you can understand that given the not so great history between the countries.

Ph3n0m

Deadwing wrote:

I'm well aware of what the song is about, and i never said it offended me. It does on the other hand offend quite alot of people in this country. I used U2 as an example, if youd read it properly. All im saying is maiden should respect that fact that waving a union jack around a room full of irish people and singing about the english army is going to piss some people off, and have the common sense to think 'hmm maybe waving a union jack around a contry that suffered so much under british rule might be a *tad* insensitive'.
surely you can understand that given the not so great history between the countries.

well if thats the case, stop speaking english, stop listening to english music, stop watching english tv - you see, people start going on about flag waving, why stop there, why not go the whole hog and ban everything english - after all they are symbols/reminders/leftovers of british rule

Deadwing

Ph3n0m wrote:

well if thats the case, stop speaking english, stop listening to english music, stop watching english tv - you see, people start going on about flag waving, why stop there, why not go the whole hog and ban everything english - after all they are symbols/reminders/leftovers of british rule

Yeah because coronation street and the kaiser chiefs are reminders of british rule and should be banned :rolleyes:
If you take the time to read my post youll see i never said anything about banning the union jack or english tv or whatever, i said maden should show some cop on. Simple as.

Ph3n0m

Deadwing wrote:

If you take the time to read my post youll see i never said anything about banning the union jack or english tv or whatever

I know you didnt say, and I never said you did

Deadwing wrote:

Yeah because coronation street and the kaiser chiefs are reminders of british rule and should be banned

I dont know why you trying to be sarcastic, coronation street is quite an evil program and should be stopped.

The point I was making is that, why go to a concert, where you know he will wave the flag irrespective of what you or anyone else thinks, and then proceed to cheer him, then boo him, then cheer him again - not that it will make any difference - the lads will have already pocketed your money and will give you what you paid for - a quality heavy metal show

Doctor J

Deadwing wrote:

I'm well aware of what the song is about, and i never said it offended me. It does on the other hand offend quite alot of people in this country. I used U2 as an example, if youd read it properly. All im saying is maiden should respect that fact that waving a union jack around a room full of irish people and singing about the english army is going to piss some people off, and have the common sense to think 'hmm maybe waving a union jack around a contry that suffered so much under british rule might be a *tad* insensitive'.
surely you can understand that given the not so great history between the countries.

Iron Maiden are British. Their lyrics are English. Many of their songs are about British armed forces (The Trooper, Aces High etc) and they are proud of where they're from, they're proud of their culture, they may even wear Union Jack boxer shorts, I can't tell for sure. The Union Jack has featured prominently on a lot of their artwork and has featured in their live show for many, many years. Now, from their perspective, given the blatant Britishness of everything they do, do you not think that they might expect people who would pay money to see them play those very same British songs with the British artwork and who sing along with their British lyrics in English, that the people who know enough of the band's music to pay €50 or whatever to see them do their British thing, might have come to terms with them being proud of their Britishness? Don't you think it's stupid to expect a band so very blatant about their Britishness, who feature a Union Jack prominently as part of their live show, to change their live show to accomodate a minority who although seem happy to buy the English lyrics, British artwork, songs about British military personnel, etc yet who get a little upset about a flag that, under the context it is being waved, also represents the great, great grandparents of those who paid money to see it in the first place?

Is it just me or is this an absolute example of hypocrisy?

Deadwing

Ph3n0m wrote:

The point I was making is that, why go to a concert, where you know he will wave the flag irrespective of what you or anyone else thinks, and then proceed to cheer him, then boo him, then cheer him again - not that it will make any difference - the lads will have already pocketed your money and will give you what you paid for - a quality heavy metal show

Well im not going, cause i dont like maiden anyway, so it doesnt bother me if they wave a feckin swastika about the place.
And on second thought maybe coronation st and kaiser chiefs should be banned..theyre both sh!te

Doctor J

From Zakk Wylde:

"This is fact and this is reality. It's not the guys in Maiden and their crew. They're a beautiful bunch of guys. Bruce Dickinson every night would be saying 'Ozzy sucks', 'Ozzfest blows', 'Corporate America sucks', 'America sucks', and all this other crap. He was bagging on America and bagging on Ozz. Ozzy's the godfather of my son. It wasn't like Bruce said those things one night. This happened every night on the 'fest. If you got signed by George Steinbrenner to play for the Yankees and every day you say 'Steinbrenner sucks', 'Yankee Stadium blows', 'I can't stand playing for this team - it sucks ass', then why are you playing for the Yankees? Shut your ****in' pie hole. All he had to do was go up there, play for an hour, whoop some ass and go home. The only thing Ozzy's ever done was given Maiden a stage to come over and play to the biggest audience in the summer. Ozzy would give you the shirt off his back. He'd never do a bad thing to anybody. Sharon didn't like him talking about her husband like that and talking about Ozzfest like that. It's just not kosher. The bottom line is Bruce was being a wad! You act like a **** you get treated like a ****! That's what happened. He's definitely not one of the guys. Everybody in their band and crew are cool. I love Maiden but he's talking about the godfather of my son, he's bagging America and all the troops are fighting overseas defending our way of life and freedom and fighting terrorism. This dickwad's taking American money and then he's gonna go home. At the same time he thinks he can badmouth America. It's not cool. He got pelted with a batch of eggs and they turned the power off on him! Go home!"

Enough of the Bush propaganda, Zakk

Civilian_Target

I was merely pointing out to Civilian Target that the booing isn't small minded in all cases. He probably hasn't been affected by British rule in the north so it is understandable. But some people have, so it is quite ironic that he is calling those who boo small minded.

On the contrary - I've lived for 3 years in Northern Ireland, including in Antrim Town during the early 90's, and in Donegal for a further 7 years. I'm Irish and catholic. I have been affected, as have my friends. And the whole Brit-hate thing is the height of sad small-mindedness in my opinion, and the huge number of things good things Britain has done for us in the last 80 years is almost completely unrecognised. I'd rant, but that's for the politics board.

Also, that Sharon Obsourne sound-clip is fecking hilarious - who's the person chanting Ozzy in the first place, it sounds really really wierd.

Flag-waving aside - Maiden's 5 days away!

[EDIT]Minor rant grammer corrections, if you're going to rant, spell correctly [/EDIT]

Deadwing

"This is fact and this is reality. It's not the guys in Maiden and their crew. They're a beautiful bunch of guys. Bruce Dickinson every night would be saying 'Ozzy sucks', 'Ozzfest blows', 'Corporate America sucks', 'America sucks', and all this other crap. He was bagging on America and bagging on Ozz. Ozzy's the godfather of my son. It wasn't like Bruce said those things one night. This happened every night on the 'fest. If you got signed by George Steinbrenner to play for the Yankees and every day you say 'Steinbrenner sucks', 'Yankee Stadium blows', 'I can't stand playing for this team - it sucks ass', then why are you playing for the Yankees? Shut your ****in' pie hole. All he had to do was go up there, play for an hour, whoop some ass and go home. The only thing Ozzy's ever done was given Maiden a stage to come over and play to the biggest audience in the summer. Ozzy would give you the shirt off his back. He'd never do a bad thing to anybody. Sharon didn't like him talking about her husband like that and talking about Ozzfest like that. It's just not kosher. The bottom line is Bruce was being a wad! You act like a **** you get treated like a ****! That's what happened. He's definitely not one of the guys. Everybody in their band and crew are cool. I love Maiden but he's talking about the godfather of my son, he's bagging America and all the troops are fighting overseas defending our way of life and freedom and fighting terrorism. This dickwad's taking American money and then he's gonna go home. At the same time he thinks he can badmouth America. It's not cool. He got pelted with a batch of eggs and they turned the power off on him! Go home!"

well if zakk wylde (if that is in fact his real name) says the war on terror is cool and that maiden suck, i believe him!!

Bruce was being a wad!

like...a wad of chewing gum?

Go home!

yeah! go home pinko commie! love it or leave it!!
:rolleyes:

Doctor J

Yeah, and don't even think freedom of speech and the first amendment applies to non-Amerikkkans!!! :rolleyes:

Ancient1

I always cringe a little bit when musicians decide to get vocal (and moral) like that. Zakk is a great guitarist and i respect him a lot, but his statement is not exactly an intellectual tour de force.

It's sad that it all had to descend into childish bickering.

OLP

anyone who boos is a hipocrettin IMO

Ph3n0m

and yet another reply from Sharon to Maiden's manager, interesting reading


An open letter to Rod Smallwood (Manager: Iron Maiden; Chairman: Sanctuary Group)



Rod,

I found your statement to be completely void of the facts that led up to Saturday’s show. Your press release was written like an old time 80’s manager, trying to use every opportunity to try and sell the record and the upcoming shows instead of just dealing with the truth.

These are the facts:

You claim to have been in the business for 30 years and have been to hundreds of gigs, but can you tell me how many times you have heard of an opening band talking sh*t about the headliner during their set and getting away with it? Not only is Ozzy the headliner, but he is also the man who is paying your band $185,000 a night. We gave Iron Maiden a chance to play to the biggest audiences they have ever played to in the U.S.A. We accommodated them with their stage set and at the band’s request we even scoured the audience for people wearing Iron Maiden t-shirts and brought them down front during their set to make them feel more comfortable. Tell me, what other headliner would do that? Unfortunately those gestures were completely lost on Bruce Dickinson who for over 20 shows continually berated Ozzy and Ozzfest during his set.

Over the last 10 years of Ozzfest we have worked with over 200 bands. None of them were ever disrespectful to Ozzy or any of the other bands on the tour. But for 20 shows we were forced to hear Dickinson’s nightly outbursts from the stage: “When we come back to America, we’ll be back with a proper sound system” or “We won’t be playing the same old songs every night (like Sabbath),” “We don’t need a teleprompter (like Ozzy)” and “We don’t need a reality show to be legit (again, like Ozzy).” Night after night we heard his complaints from the stage about how “corporate” the venues were and how “outrageous” the ticket prices were. Strangely enough, if you want to get a general admission ticket to stand in a field to see Iron Maiden at Reading this weekend it’s going to cost you over $120. I would say that’s very pricey, wouldn’t you?

When an artist comes on stage and says he’s not playing the 55 minutes that he was allotted and that he is going to play for as long as he wants (cutting into Sabbath’s set), I’m not going to let that happen. Dickinson was under the delusion that the 46,000 people in San Bernardino had come only to see Iron Maiden. He even proclaimed “This is not the Ozzfest, This is Maidenfest.” I guess no one told him that we have an audience of 45,000 to 53,000 people every year in San Bernardino.

Here’s another fact for you. Bruce Dickinson’s own band was embarrassed by him. Iron Maiden leader, Steve Harris, even came to Ozzy’s dressing room to apologize to Ozzy for Bruce’s behavior before Maiden took the stage in San Bernardino.

It’s shameful that Dickinson felt he had the right to air his issues publicly onstage every night as a way to boost his own ego. Dickinson never once came up to Ozzy and me to voice any concerns. He certainly had the opportunity to do so every night. If he wasn’t able to show us that courtesy then why should I give him the respect to air my grievances with him in private? Ozzy’s only interaction with Dickinson was on the first night of the tour. Ozzy, being the true gentleman that he is, passed Bruce in the hall and said “Good luck and have a great show.” Unfortunately Dickinson felt the need to turn his back to Ozzy and walked away. Frankly, Dickinson got what he deserved. We had to listen to his bullsh*t for five straight weeks. He only had to suffer a couple of eggs on the head.

On closing, yes, I did cut Iron Maiden’s sound. This is the way I look at it: Ozzfest is our tour. We built it into something that’s lasted 10 years now. We’ve been responsible for breaking many new bands and resurrecting the careers of former superstars. Part of our success stems from the fact that when a band is on Ozzfest we treat them with nothing but kindness and respect just as if we had invited them into our home. You can ask all of the bands who have been on the tour. They all describe it as the “ultimate summer camp.” It’s like one big family. Unfortunately Dickinson doesn’t have the manners to realize that when you are invited into someone’s home, are seated at their dinner table, are eating their food and drinking their wine, you shouldn’t talk disrespectfully about them (Ozzy, Black Sabbath and Ozzfest), otherwise you just might get your ass handed to you. Every action has a reaction. Was Dickinson so naïve to think that I was going to let him get away with talking sh*t about my family night after night? I don’t think he realizes who he’s dealing with. I will not endure behavior like this from anyone.

I know you would love to keep talking about this because this is the most press that Iron Maiden has had in the U.S. in twenty years, but let’s move on, shall we?

Sincerely,



The “Real” Iron Maiden

Sharon Osbourne

Ancient1

This is now a farce!

Should we laugh or cry??

Doctor J

Cry. That bint needs to shut the fock up and get back to managing, rather than dragging Ozzy and Sabbath's tarnished legacy through through the **** for every $$$ she can squeeze out of it.

Ph3n0m

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2005390557,,00.html - a response from Bruce, well kind of

Deadwing

/flashes light switch on and off
Fight!
Fight!
Fight!