Are Quinn Direct really that bad?

Oh Boy!

MadsL wrote:

Question for Oh Boy!

Why do Quinn Direct operate a nationality based loading? One of the questions in their script is "Where were you born?" I can provide multiple examples of where a person born outside of Ireland with exactly the same Full Irish licence and driving history have been quoted often 1000's of euros more than someone born in Ireland.

Apparently it's to do with the real or percieved view of what driving standards are in the clients country of origin. We would view things like the driving test as being a very important start to your driving career, and in some countries (including places like the US) the driving test would not be considered good enough. Hence we rate on that. Once someone is here for a year or 2 there would be no loading attached as they should then have a good knowledge of the rules of the road here. And its not racist, someone from Ireland who has been abroad for years would be similarly affected.

Oh, as an aside, it would not be thousands extra, thats a bit of an exaggeration. The article in the link you attached was because of an error in our computer based rates. Nothing more! Rates often go wrong, and it has to be said the most often go wrong in a downward direction! To our detriment. That thread accuses us of being racist. THAT IS THE GREATEST PILE OF RUBBISH I HAVE HEARD. As you should be aware, underwriters set insurance rates. Are you accusing our underwriters from India of being racist?????

slade_x wrote:

how many driving lessons are required before you can proceed on a quote with QDI?

I was told that if i had 25 lessons they would deduct 19% off my quote but what would be the minimum they would ask of a client?

What you're talking bout there slade_x is called a DIR discount. If you do 25 driving lessons with an instructor registered with the Driving Instructors Register (DIR) you get a certificate which entitles you to 1yr NCB. Which is a 19% discount with us. You don't need any driving lessons to take out a policy with us. And there's no limit to the amount of quotes you can get. I've seen people ringing in here and getting 25 quotes at the one time!!!

blastman wrote:

Oh boy, can you give me any advice on insuring a second car in my name? PM me if you want.....

You can insure a second car in you're name, but it would be like taking out a first time policy. In other words, you're NCB can only be used on one vehicle at any time with QDI.

Alun

Once someone is here for a year or 2 there would be no loading attached as they should then have a good knowledge of the rules of the road here. And its not racist, someone from Ireland who has been abroad for years would be similarly affected.

That has to be one of the funniest things I've read in ages, thanks! To even dare to suggest that experiencing driving in another country will actually increase your risk of having an accident when you return to Ireland is verging on the insane. And to have the gall to suggest that someone who has passed their test in, say, Germany is a less skilled driver than one who has gone through what is laughingly called driver education here, borders on the ridiculous.

Dades

Alun wrote:

That has to be one of the funniest things I've read in ages, thanks! To even dare to suggest that experiencing driving in another country will actually increase your risk of having an accident when you return to Ireland is verging on the insane. And to have the gall to suggest that someone who has passed their test in, say, Germany is a less skilled driver than one who has gone through what is laughingly called driver education here, borders on the ridiculous.

I think you're misreading the funniest thing you read in ages.

Experiencing driving in other countries won't increase your risk, but learning to drive in another country might - if you haven't driven here before.

There's nothing strange about this I can see. Every country has it's driving style. And don't forget most other nations drive on the right-hand side of the road. Therefore the most people will be new to driving on the wrong side of the road, and possibly using a LHD car. It's to do with familiarity rather than skill I would imagine.

The example given of a US driving test is a good one. The standard required to be allowed on the streets is far below what it is here.

Oh Boy!

The Atheist wrote:

I think you're misreading the funniest thing you read in ages.

Experiencing driving in other countries won't increase your risk, but learning to drive in another country might - if you haven't driven here before.

There's nothing strange about this I can see. Every country has it's driving style. And don't forget most other nations drive on the right-hand side of the road. Therefore the most people will be new to driving on the wrong side of the road, and possibly using a LHD car. It's to do with familiarity rather than skill I would imagine.

The example given of a US driving test is a good one. The standard required to be allowed on the streets is far below what it is here.

Yes, you're right. And the rates would vary from country to country. People from countries who drive on the same side of the road as ourselves would carry little if any loading on their premium. It's all about risk, not race. After all we are one of the very few companies who quote new immigrants into the country at all, so theres not a lot of companies you can compare our rates with! In fact, the government commitee on insurance congratulated us on our policy towards first time drivers, both Irish and foreign. So we must be doing something right.

Ann Elk

Working for a motor insurer myself, with regards foriegn experience, especially in the US, the heavy focus on automatics there, coupled with the disrinct lack of roundabouts makes them a higher risk. Underwriters also make allowances for an adjustment period from right to left hand drive. Not that i'm defending them mind - at the end of the day a companies prime interest is the generation of profits, not giving us a free run unfortunately.

Alun

The Atheist wrote:

I think you're misreading the funniest thing you read in ages.

No I'm not.

Experiencing driving in other countries won't increase your risk, but learning to drive in another country might - if you haven't driven here before.

I was referring to this bit ... "someone from Ireland who has been abroad for years would be similarly affected".

There's nothing strange about this I can see. Every country has it's driving style. And don't forget most other nations drive on the right-hand side of the road. Therefore the most people will be new to driving on the wrong side of the road, and possibly using a LHD car. It's to do with familiarity rather than skill I would imagine.

I'm well aware of this having lived in mainland Europe for 21 years before moving here The LHD to RHD thing is a very minor adjustment, and certainly doesn't take 2 years to get out of your system, more like a month or so. When I moved here I was told (by some insurers) that having a Dutch driving licence would increase my premiums, but that if I swapped it for an Irish one I'd be OK, even after I pointed out that I had actually passed my test in the UK. How silly is that? (This was before penalty points came in which is now used as an excuse). Others were happy with any EU licence. Guess who I went with?

The example given of a US driving test is a good one. The standard required to be allowed on the streets is far below what it is here.

That depends a lot on the state in question. Some states are better than others.

alias no.9

DirkVoodoo wrote:

Quinn reward loyalty, and I like them because they give young drivers a chance rather than the "guilty till proven innocent" mentality of the other insurance companies

If quinn reward loyalty, why then was my renewal priced at ~€480, when by putting the exact same details into their website, right down to name address and registration number of the damn car, was I given an quote of ~€375? The renewal quote was a whopping 28% more expensive than what they were prepared to offer me as a punter walking straight in off the street. After much remonstration, they agreed to match the quote from the website.

Oh Boy!

alias no.9 wrote:

If quinn reward loyalty, why then was my renewal priced at ~€480, when by putting the exact same details into their website, right down to name address and registration number of the damn car, was I given an quote of ~€375? The renewal quote was a whopping 28% more expensive than what they were prepared to offer me as a punter walking straight in off the street. After much remonstration, they agreed to match the quote from the website.

As i mentioned in an earlier reply "Rates often go wrong, and it has to be said the most often go wrong in a downward direction! To our detriment." But we do honour them.......................

MadsL

Apparently it's to do with the real or percieved view of what driving standards are in the clients country of origin.

Is it real or percieved?? If it is perceived then it is clearly based on prejudice and not empirical fact. Presumably reputable insurance companies deal with accurate data in order to complile insurance risk. So my question would be is where is the empirical data to show that someone from say, India as in this case, who is driving in Ireland, is a greater risk than an Irish driver with the same class of licence? I have asked Quinn Direct to publish a summary of their findings on the insurance risk of non-nationals compared to Irish nationals and they have refused to do so.

To take another case my wife was quoted €660 more, because she was American, despite holding a Full Irish driving licence (in other words having satified all requirements of the Government as to her competancy to drive)

I was intriged by this so I rang back and pretended that she was my Korean friend and the quote was 3000 euro higher - again with a full Irish licence

Oh, as an aside, it would not be thousands extra, thats a bit of an exaggeration. The article in the link you attached was because of an error in our computer based rates.

Was it also an error when I rang back giving Korean details???
Note that the revised quote after correcting 'the error' from Quinn Direct for Thangasamy Bagavathya is €3,958, still some way short of his lowest quote from FBD.

That thread accuses us of being racist.

Yes, it does. And the reason is that QD is the

only

insurance co. in the country that asks the questions it does about 'place of birth' (they changed from nationality after I complained)

If this is such a vital piece of information for insurance, then why does no other company ask this question??

Now I can assume one of a number of things;
1. QD are cherry picking clients and using the 'place of birth' question to screen out 'perceived' risk. A racist approach to profit maximization.

2. QD have a tiny sample size of risk to extrapolate to savagely load premiums, again based on irrelevant data - ie nationality. They are applying their own method in this, this is not industry standard, but peculiar to QD. Why? I have yet to have a satisfactory answer to this, despite many conversations with QD.

Note that the Equality Commission also agreed that this was unacceptable, but due to the backlog of cases have not yet had opportunity to pursue this, yet they feel there would be a case to answer.

THAT IS THE GREATEST PILE OF RUBBISH I HAVE HEARD. As you should be aware, underwriters set insurance rates. Are you accusing our underwriters from India of being racist?????

Can you think of a single justifiable reason for loading someone with exactly the same driving qualifications and experience purely based on nationality? Is a Korean 4.5 times the risk of an American?? If so why don't allcompanies do this. The federation of Motor Insurers said that they had never heard of such a loading based on nationality in the industry.

What relevance is it that your underwriters are in India? Are they less likely to be racist somehow?

People from countries who drive on the same side of the road as ourselves would carry little if any loading on their premium.

India drive on the left. This guy got a HUGE loading.

It's all about risk, not race. After all we are one of the very few companies who quote new immigrants into the country at all, so theres not a lot of companies you can compare our rates with!

You are the only company that determines if they are immmigrants by asking directly.

In fact, the government commitee on insurance congratulated us on our policy towards first time drivers, both Irish and foreign. So we must be doing something right.

Point me to the link where they mentioned foreign drivers.

A stopped clock is right twice a day.

BnA

I was with Quinn Direct for 6 years.

About 3 years ago I had a bad run in with them. Basically I noticed that they hadn't taken their direct debit for 4 months. I rang them up and told them. They then demanded all the money together straight away. I didn't have it. They cancelled my insurance. I had to park my car for 2 weeks while I got the Insurance Omnibudsman (orhoweveryouspellit) to sort it out.

The following year I vowed I wouldn't go near them again... But they were a couple of hundred quid cheaper than the next best quote so I stuck with them again. I can't remember what exectly happened that year, but I ended up having to park my car again for a few days because they forgot to renew it or something like that. But again they were still the cheapest so I stuck with them.

Finally a few weeks ago when my insurance was up I got a better quote from Allianz. Even still though Quinn Direct managed to feck it up. I rang them up and told them I wouldn't be renewing and yet 5 days later they took the first installment of my insurance out by direct debit. Now I rang them up and they promised to sort it out but it will take a week or two. I wouldn't want to be stuck for the money.

Basically, Quinn Direct are fine until something goes wrong. Be it a claim, a mistake in your policy (either by you or by QD themselves) anything like that... then you're in a world of sh1t.

That said though... next year when my insurance is up again, I'll ring them again and if they're the cheapest..... I'll go back to them. I'd take my chances for a couple of bucks in my pocket...

FrankGrimes

Pity but I don't have the time to write on this at any length but have to say I'm astonished at the quote the Indian guy was given. I spent Monday ringing round for quotes and to be honest its all a blur but for some reason I'm not 100% sure that QD were the only ones that asked me my place of birth and have I lived in Ireland all my life, though I could be wrong.

Can anyone confirm that they are the only ones that ask it?

MadsL - just to say if I had the time I'd be taking your line of questioning so keep it up!

30-6shooter

Quinn reward loyalty, and I like them because they give young drivers a chance rather than the "guilty till proven innocent" mentality of the other insurance companies

Exactly, im a young driver and naturally cant afford fully comp, so as ill only be going for 3rd party F+T anyway, it doesnt really bother me what extra crap they offer or dont offer as the case may be, with Fully comp insurance. All i want is a reasonable priced insurance and they`re the only ones to offer it. And their policy on foreigners is perfectly correct in my opinion, how many feckin nigerians have you seen trying to drive on our roads, would you insure tham???? :rolleyes:

I found them grand top deal with over the fone, they seem to be on the ball even when i was sorting out awkward **** like switching my policy to a commercial one.

Shane Smith

to the OP, no they are not "that bad".

Oh Boy!

MadsL, have to go to a few meetings now, am not trying to dodge your questions. Will answer them when i eventually get home this evening.

But i will say just one thing, its a free country, if anyone doesn't like QDI or what we do, then just go to another company. ALL insurance companies operate different procedures regarding what questions are asked, and why they're asked. It's all to do with money at the end of the day, like any business! There's 1500 people of a lot of different nationalities working here and around 300,000 policyholders to think of. If we quoted everyone at the same level, regardless of the risk, we'd end up like PMPA in the 80's. Bankrupt. I know we're making huge profits now but just 4yrs ago we were losing money hand over fist.

As i said earlier, i'm not insured here even though i work here, and i won't be insured here!! The policy just does not suit me!! But as i work here, i understand why we do things the way we do. Which someone who doesn't work here wouldn't understand. And i'm not related to Sean Quinn or some PR person sent to defend our honour here on Boards. I'm just someone who enjoys my job and gets paid a wage for doing it...

Ann Elk

Re: 30-6shooter
Exactly, im a young driver and naturally cant afford fully comp, so as ill only be going for 3rd party F+T anyway, it doesnt really bother me what extra crap they offer or dont offer as the case may be, with Fully comp insurance. All i want is a reasonable priced insurance and they`re the only ones to offer it. And their policy on foreigners is perfectly correct in my opinion, how many feckin nigerians have you seen trying to drive on our roads, would you insure tham????

How very broad minded of you m'dear - of course i presume that all the people in question are driving around draped in their national flags, or is it your supernatural spider sense thats telling you that all coloured peole are from nigeria?????

MadsL

Oh Boy! I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions, and be assured that this is not a personal attack, rather my concern at the possible unfair treatment of immigrants to this country.

To answer your last point;

ALL insurance companies operate different procedures regarding what questions are asked, and why they're asked.

And the Data Protection Act has rules that state they should be;
adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose for which it is obtained and held. QD maintain that nationality is relevant for the purposes of insurance risk calculations, again I would ask that they actually publish an abstract of their findings to demonstrate the calculations and loadings that are made based on nationality and the added risk to them of drivers from various countries. If that cannot be demonstrated through lack of sample size or simply because there is no additional risk, then this questioning of nationality should be stopped under the terms of the data protection act.

I have had representives of QD say to me that NO loading is made on the basis of nationality. If this is the case then the questions aked about nationality are irrelevant under the Data Protection Act. It is also strange then that a quotation rate would change so dramatically where the only difference is the nationality of the person being quoted.

Quinn Direct have yet to get back to me on a request that I made under the Data Protection Act to see my details held on file with them over 9 months ago. This is a legal obligation. I failed to even get an acknowledgement for my registered letter.

Insurance companies used to ask marital status, they no longer do this (although Allianz seem to be holding out) the data protection comissioner has this to say in 2001;

I considered that details of a person's marital status is irrelevant to the question of motor insurance and requested that this question be deleted from questions asked of prospective customers. Of course, if a person wishes to include a named driver on the policy, it is reasonable and relevant that the relationship be indicated.

Surely nationality is as irrelevant as marital status when it comes to the capacity to drive safely.

I would suggest that anyone who feels that QD are not doing this to do as this journalist did and ask a foreign friend to call Quinn Direct and compare that quote with the one you get as an Irish National on the website entering the same details. Alternatively, why not ring them and ask why they ask the questions they do, and what the relevance is to driving.

It seems odd that QD feel that non-national drivers with a long driving history who have passed the standard laid down by the Government for driving competence and actually passed the driving test here are often being asked to pay more than Irish people with only a provisional driving licence.

MrPudding

The Atheist wrote:

The example given of a US driving test is a good one. The standard required to be allowed on the streets is far below what it is here.

You are fcuking joking right? What is the required standard here? You need a fcuking provo license, thats it. No requirement for training of any kind. Wait for 2 years get a second provo license and you can drive having taken no lessons and never having had anyone in the car with you. Add this to the fact that a bunch of people got licenses simply for being on a waiting list. Are you just trolling or what?

MrP

poppers

BnA wrote:

.

Basically, Quinn Direct are fine until something goes wrong. Be it a claim, a mistake in your policy (either by you or by QD themselves) anything like that... then you're in a world of sh1t.

have to agree here i was wi QD for 5 yrs then decided to move to axa when i went to get my proof of no claims they would only give me four yrs as due to a fault with their system my insurance was cancelled but when i got it sorted i was given a new policy number when i expained what happened they checked it out and said i only had four full yrs no claims and asked me if i knew who i was talking to four yrs ago..

ROVER

From my experience QDI specialise in the young driver which is great.
I am over 30 with a full NCB driving a 1.6 and they are not even near the quotes I can get from other companies. The QDI excess is always much higher, no breakdown assistance no windscreen cover no bonus protection or driving other cars.

But if you are young starting out driving and want a basic cheap quote they might be the best.

DirkVoodoo

MrPudding wrote:

You are fcuking joking right? What is the required standard here? You need a fcuking provo license, thats it. No requirement for training of any kind. Wait for 2 years get a second provo license and you can drive having taken no lessons and never having had anyone in the car with you. Add this to the fact that a bunch of people got licenses simply for being on a waiting list. Are you just trolling or what?

MrP

While the issue of obtaining a license in this country is questionable, the test is still of a fairly decent standard. The american one is a joke! Im in New York at the mo and have been told by several irish ex-pats that the test is a piece of cake. Most of the american driving i have seen in my time here has been shocking.

Honestly, i didnt believe anyone could be worse than us when it came to driving, but ive found it in new york to be true. For chrissake, they cant even use roundabouts! Was driving up to connecticut, a 4 way junction, all cars stop and wait for some chap to go first. Ive seen a few near misses at these when ppl hesitate then decide to floor it, simultaneously. I asked my boss, "wouldnt a roundabout (rotary) be easier?" he said "sure, but americans arent big on them. theres one near the office (in rye) and you see more accidents there than anywhere else".

Tailgating on the highways is the norm, goin at 60/70 mph and they swerve in and out of lanes, hugging the bumper of the car in front. Plus the yanks dont seem too keen on rear wheel drive. All the mercs ive seen here are "4matic", and the number of times ive heard tires squeel is crazy! I think learning to drive in an automatic is a big negative, it detatched you from the car and as a result you dont get the same understanding for how a car works that you do with a stick-shift.

But i digress...this is all personal opinion from what i have observed in my time here, im not stating it as fact. However, fact: the licensing system is somewhat similar to our own, except due to cheaper cars/insurance, they can drive around in v8s and v6s at 16...somewhat more frightening than a 30 year old nigerian (african-irish?) driving a 1.0 litre micra.

P.S. That whole license hand out thing was crazy! great way to clear the list though:)

P.P.S. If you are REALLY interested, have a crack at the NY theory test

Dades

The example given of a US driving test is a good one. The standard required to be allowed on the streets is far below what it is here.

MrPudding wrote:

You are fcuking joking right? What is the required standard here? You need a fcuking provo license, thats it. No requirement for training of any kind. Wait for 2 years get a second provo license and you can drive having taken no lessons and never having had anyone in the car with you. Add this to the fact that a bunch of people got licenses simply for being on a waiting list. Are you just trolling or what?

WTF? Lay off the redbull and wipe your screen, Pud.

Allow me to re-phrase that to "standard required to obtain a full licence".
That was actually the point I was trying to make.

MadsL

MadsL, have to go to a few meetings now, am not trying to dodge your questions. Will answer them when i eventually get home this evening.

Long meeting.

528i

QD were actually 50% cheaper but I still didn't touch them, just too many horror stories plain & simple.

If yer an oul biddy or one of these 30mph self obsessed speed freaks, grand- you'll probably never crash your 40mpg tdi, neighbours hate you and think you're the most boring person in the whole world, and you should probably run with whoever you can for the cheapest insurance. But If, like me, you're just as likely to barrel roll an expensive car 14 times thru a ditch and slaughter dozens of innocent school children and prized bullocks in the process - you need the reassurance of at least knowing the insurance company will meet their obligations.

I agree with the general sentiment expressed towards boyracers and their 'modified motors', they should be forced into humiliating little nissan microns until they learn some manners, respect and how to drive properly with due diligence and attention.

thelurcher

Quinn Direct are very poor in fairness - I've had fierce trouble with them.
Ye've heard it all before - had a crash, other guy was supposidly being prosecuted by the guards, was told the blame was 60/40 - heard nothing for 3 months then I rang them to find they settled against me 100% and my insurance trebled!!!!!!! :mad: :mad:

Thing that really gets me mad is that I want to get a pickup as I have loads of dogs - have no use for it in work. QD won't quote. I pointed out that I've had three 'carvans' with them already all listed as commercial vehicles but for private use only
So why would a pickup be different

Rang Hibernian - asked them if they'd insure me in a pickup on a private policy and the guy said no problem - once I get my NCB later in the year I'm off from QD.

The customer service at QD is brutal :eek: It takes a lot to wind me up but I've had murder with them trying to get quotes etc.

If you're a young driver (I'm over 30) get a few years under your belt with QD - drive like a nun - and then change to a decent company

MadsL

not trying to dodge your questions

*cough*