Rip Off Real Estate Agent Advice Needed

subfreq

No names will be mentioned but the following is with one of the 3 major Real Estate Agencies in Ireland. They make me so angry with how dodgy they are.

---

Viewed a house last thursday on the market for 320K only 2 other people were at the viewing. I put in a bid of 319K the next day and spoke to the agent who said that their would be no movement as their were no viewings until monday. I was told if anything happened they would call me straight away which is the usual line.

I went back to view it today with my wife and their was only 1 other person their. On our way out the door she asked the agent what the situation was with the house and he said their was 4 people bidding on the house and it was up to 340K!!

The agent doing the viewing is negotiating the house so he doesn't know i am a bidder.

I have to say that i am very angry about what seems to be a stitch up to raise the price of the house.

It is not possible 4 people could be bidding because until tonight only 3 people had viewed the house!!

I would walk away but this house is what i have been looking for, and i have been looking for a couple of months. Any advice on my next step would be appreciated. I know these guys lie through their teeth so just want to do what i can to get the house.

Can you ask an agent for the history of the bidding so you know how much and in what order bids have gone down? I would love to report them...

Bluehair

subfreq wrote:

I would love to report them...

To who?

It happens all the time. I'm certainly not advocating the methods but at the end of the day the estate agents job is to fetch the highest price possible for the vendor.

"Cave Emptor" certainly applies but unfortunately as you said yourself "I could walk away but this house is what I've been looking for". They know it too and will extract whatever you are prepared to pay.

TwoShedsJackson

Nothing you can do, as Bluehair says it's the agents job to get the highest price possible. The house is worth what someone will pay for it and if the agent thinks telling you that to get you over 340k is going to do it, he'll do it.

Get ready for a lot of this while you're house hunting.

rooferPete

Hi,

Taking the number of viewers into account it is possible that there are four bids, also there are people who may know the property or the surrounding properties and are willing to bid subject to a survey.

Chances are the property is work the extra money in today's market, with a jump of 20 k in two "official viewings" if I owned it I would put the house up for auction.

If I was buying it and could stretch to the extra cost I would speak with the negotiator in charge and leave my new bid valid for 24 hours no longer and definitley no more bids being entertained.

LegacyUser

rooferPete wrote:

Hi,

If I was buying it and could stretch to the extra cost I would speak with the negotiator in charge and leave my new bid valid for 24 hours no longer and definitley no more bids being entertained.

Is that not like dictating to the estate agent - if ye don't accept my bid in the next 24 hours then sod off!? Sure the agent doesn't give a crap!! He'll just take the next bidder.

To the OP - how can you be sure that only x people viewed the house? You can't, unfortunately. If you get a call tomorrow or the next day saying - If your still the high bidder - then that really sucks! I think I got hit for a couple of grand like that when I was buying my house. Not really sure what I would do in that circumstance. Maybe do a 'planter' call (or whatever you want to cal it) - have your buddy ring up the agent. "Ehh hello there, just wondering -- that house on xx street, is it still available - whats it going for?? ".

Don't do it loads of times though - or they'll leave it on the market a bit longer - anticipating more interest and therefore some bungle that does have the 20k extra could get it.

subfreq

Believe me i was at the first and third viewing and wife at the second so we know who was there.

But, anyway I am far more relaxed about it now. Just got emotively attached which is breaking rule number one in the whole process.

Having just sold my house i am well aware of the tricks of the trade. Whilst i have to accept the maxim that they(Estate Agents) can do what they like as they are getting the best price for the seller, it doesn't mean i have to like it. Especially when such a pious situation only exists because their is no regulation in this country. In this case like many others you just have to accept being lied too and manipulated because... Well just because that is the way it is.

You wouldn't accept such poor standards in any other trade sector but Real Estate Agents can do it because of no regulation. I mean you are just spending at least a third of a million Euros so what's all the fuss right??

It is so true that the house is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Back to being clinical and just sticking to my figures no matter how much these idiots do my head in.

I have to finish by saying(and no apologies to any real estate agents who might read this) Real Estate Agents are the lowest scum that occupy this country. Every encounter i have ever had with them has proved this.

MorningStar

subfreq wrote:

You wouldn't accept such poor standards in any other trade sector but Real Estate Agents can do it because of no regulation. I mean you are just spending at least a third of a million Euros so what's all the fuss right??

I have to finish by saying(and no apologies to any real estate agents who might read this) Real Estate Agents are the lowest scum that occupy this country. Every encounter i have ever had with them has proved this.

Regulation in this area is really next to impossible to enforce anywhere. Name one country besides Scotland (they use a differnt system) that has effective regulation.

The same problem exists in every country when there is demand AFIK. What regulation can change it. The only one I have heard of that is vaguely effective is the publishing of sale prices.

lomb

property is very sought after expect to fight for it. in fact if u dont have to fight for it there is something seriously wrong

lomb

rooferPete wrote:

If I was buying it and could stretch to the extra cost I would speak with the negotiator in charge and leave my new bid valid for 24 hours no longer and definitley no more bids being entertained.

i see uv done this before rooferpete excellent advice.

newgrange

The problem I have with estate agents is they seem to be so crap at estimating what a property will go for. I've been looking with my brother and his girlfriend, and in a number of cases, something on the market at 260k has eventually gone for over 320. Now that is too big a mistake in the 'estimate'.

Is there any other area of expertise where estimates are up to 50% out and no-one seems to mind? The properties eventually go for in or around the standard rate for the area, but all the nonsense of taking the bids up from the ludicrously low 'asking price' is a joke.

lomb

newgrange wrote:

The problem I have with estate agents is they seem to be so crap at estimating what a property will go for. I've been looking with my brother and his girlfriend, and in a number of cases, something on the market at 260k has eventually gone for over 320. Now that is too big a mistake in the 'estimate'.

Is there any other area of expertise where estimates are up to 50% out and no-one seems to mind? The properties eventually go for in or around the standard rate for the area, but all the nonsense of taking the bids up from the ludicrously low 'asking price' is a joke.

of course they are grossly unprofessional, however be a professional yourself and bid 320 to start with, and close the deal that week. really u have to rise above them and their tricks. as i say property is something there isnt enough of and everyone wants, expect to fight for it, in many young peoples case they have the fight of their life on to get a good one or two(for a pension).

MorningStar

newgrange wrote:

The problem I have with estate agents is they seem to be so crap at estimating what a property will go for. I've been looking with my brother and his girlfriend, and in a number of cases, something on the market at 260k has eventually gone for over 320. Now that is too big a mistake in the 'estimate'..

Depending on the estate agents the guide price is 10%-25% below the expected. The price of the property determines the guide. To interest FTB they might give a guide 20% below etc...
The estate agents have siad so in national papers and will even tell you what their guide prices are based on if you ask them too. It is a matter of education , many people are expecting house's to sell at guide prices when that is really the bottom price it will sell in most cases. Smaller estate agents really are the only ones that might give realistic guide prices.
They aren't that crap at estimations the consumers just are not aware of what the guide price means. It's been the way it is now for about 10 years yet people still think the guide is a goal for the seller. When it says "in excess" that's what it means.

NotInventedHere

It pays to be realistic, I always ask what will the buyer accept for the property and if I bid that amount will they accept it that day. It has so far been a successful strategy. but it can also mean making a huge bid increase of 20k or more. you will alos need your 1% deposit, solicitor and surveyor ready to go that day to lock down the deal

rooferPete

Hi,

Of course the buyer dictates to the agent in fact you can say what you like to or about the agent it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day the vendor either accepts or rejects the bid.

The offer valid only for a set time turns the pressure from you to the agent and therefore the vendor, of course you must be their ideal buyer, no chain etc.

I negotiated my son's house in this way and another property that I wanted for offices where the bids went 20k over my bid, but when the sale fell through the agent was back looking for a little extra, I refused and they came back within an hour accepting my original offer if it still stood.

Since then when negotiating on behalf of others I introduced the time limit, as Subfreq pointed out I can do these things because I am emotionally involved.

.

LegacyUser

why can't we name and shame these sheisters?

i bought a house with a mate of mine, and have to say i felt we were done.

house was on the market for €290, so i put in a bid of €280 (this was the price on the brochure, but they said that's what it was and was now 290)

anyway, our offer stood for over a week, when finaly estate agent got back to us saying there was another bidder, so we got into a bidding war.

this was just after the 317,500 stamp duty cap for first time buyers came in, so the estate agent was basicly telling me that we'd need to go to that to secure the house, he kept calling the other bidder an "investor", and also a first time buyer!?!

to be honest it all seemed v shadey, no transparency at all.

that was douglas newman good in fairview by the way.

remove name if you want mods, but just telling it how it is.

lomb

the problem is that the 'other bidder' could be a family member or a time waster so dont bid above what u think its worth its as simple as that. the exception is auctions where everyone is serious and really if u want it u need to keep bidding. properties that are unique tend to b auctioned and personally i think it is a great way to buy as everyone is serious, and only the most serious person wins. prices can get out of hand and there is the 500 ish euro hit u have to take on survey fees and solicitors fees pre the auction so everything has a downside but if u are serious and u have the funds then u should own it that day no messing about.

its a dubious business and as rooferpete says put in a fair bid for it, (its up to u to know whats fair so u need to research the market and that takes time) and stick to ur guns, and apply selective pressure by putting in a time limit. the agent wants the deal closed they want their commision so they will apply pressure to the vendor. let them sweat for a change.

that really is the fundamentals to closing a deal, it is an art form, but is fairly simple.

arrange your finance in advance, have a letter, have ur solicitor waiting, and the surveyor ready and the deposit money. once this is done u are ready to buy and not before unless u want to get stiffed.

subfreq

Definately have everything in place and ready to buy. My ceiling is 350k and this house will get up to that. Heard from the agent that last viewing is today.

I wlil put in my final bid today and if it gets up to 350k so be it as the house is worth that to me. I wont apply the time limit until tomorrow if i haven't heard anything back by then i will call them and say my bid is only valid for another 24hrs and try to close the deal that way.

I have thought for a long time that if someone set up a bidding company who would do all of this for a client they would make millions. If they tied it in with your legal costs people would go for it.

rooferPete

Hi Subfreq,

You can employ your own agent to do the negotiating for you in fact with the shortage of properties for sale I expect you wouldn't have much trouble finding a licensed, bonded property valuer to take on the job.

Back in the 80's when there were more properties than buyers the agents were very happy to act on your behalf, that time most of the agents looked on the letting market as the true bottom of the work pile.

Amazing how things have changed