Why pay the USI levy?

dublinguy2004

Why should representation by the USI be 'mandatory'? I'm not paying any affiliation fees to any student union this year.

Students should be allowed choose whether they want to join a union or not. The USI have very liberal policies that many students may not agree with. One really does have to be careful what they sign up to these days.

AngelofFire

The money UCD Students Union pays to USI equates to about 5 euro per student per year, as far as i know. if you want UCDSU to disaffiliate from the union of students of ireland, you would have to call a referendum by getting together a petiton of about 1000 signatures. USI is supposed to represent students on a national level, but it is pretty much a taling shop, and a club for people looking to get a good C.V.

I Wouldnt call USI liberal, it does have a policy calling for more Gardai to patrol the streets.

rainbow kirby

And what's wrong with liberal politics anyway?

arbeitsscheuer

rainbow kirby wrote:

And what's wrong with liberal politics anyway?

Exactly what I was gonna say.
This country's becoming like the US, where to be called "liberal" is the ultimate insult.
What's funny is, this new descriptive term, "neo-liberal", which as far as I can make out means the exact opposite of liberal. Bizarre.

dublinguy2004

AngelofFire wrote:

The money UCD Students Union pays to USI equates to about 5 euro per student per year, as far as i know. if you want UCDSU to disaffiliate from the union of students of ireland, you would have to call a referendum by getting together a petiton of about 1000 signatures. USI is supposed to represent students on a national level, but it is pretty much a taling shop, and a club for people looking to get a good C.V.

I Wouldnt call USI liberal, it does have a policy calling for more Gardai to patrol the streets.

5 euro per student per year eh? Well why not let every sports club/society levy students? What percentage of UCD students actually care what the USI are up to anyway? I for one don't want what appears to be 'compulsory' membership of an organisation I have many fundamental disagreements with (as do a lot of my friends).

Without going into specific disagreements, why should I pay membership to a union that I, and lots of students like me, don't want to be represented by? Why is the USI so special that they can levy students and other clubs/socities can't?

Decouple the USI levy from registration fees and give students a choice. Only a tiny minority of students that pay the levy are actually involved in the USI.

Dave!

rainbow kirby wrote:

And what's wrong with liberal politics anyway?

Indeed! I wanna see free joints being handed out on Freshers' week!

AngelofFire

5 euro per student per year eh? Well why not let every sports club/society levy students? What percentage of UCD students actually care what the USI are up to anyway? I for one don't want what appears to be 'compulsory' membership of an organisation I have many fundamental disagreements with (as do a lot of my friends).

Without going into specific disagreements, why should I pay membership to a union that I, and lots of students like me, don't want to be represented by? Why is the USI so special that they can levy students and other clubs/socities can't?

I dont want to get into yet another pro union vs anti union argument, but when you say ''why are USI so special?'' are you referring to USI as in the Union of students of Ireland or UCDSU as in University College Dublin Students union.

Also you seem to be comparing unions to student societies, that is as valid as a comparison between UCD and some of Irelands biggest shopping centres, they are both completely different from each other. A students union is a representative body that looks after the interests of the students, whilst societies and clubs provide activities for students

Ed

there was fierce uproar when the welfare officer showed freshers how to roll joint a few years back - for some reason i doubt udc will see free joint being handed out any time soon.

Dave!

Ahh shoite, lol...

Clive

dublinguy2004 wrote:

Decouple the USI levy from registration fees and give students a choice. Only a tiny minority of students that pay the levy are actually involved in the USI.

If you want UCDSU to leave USI, there is a democratic process for you to make it happen.

If you personally want to leave USI (and UCDSU) there is a precedent in England (Oxford I think?) where you may, and be refunded the fee. You will of course not have access to the bars, shops etc that UCDSU run, but if you kick up enough fuss I´m sure you can get the money back.

dublinguy2004

Clive wrote:

If you want UCDSU to leave USI, there is a democratic process for you to make it happen.

If you personally want to leave USI (and UCDSU) there is a precedent in England (Oxford I think?) where you may, and be refunded the fee. You will of course not have access to the bars, shops etc that UCDSU run, but if you kick up enough fuss I´m sure you can get the money back.

I don't want to be a member of neither the UCDSU nor the USI. I don't care about whatever internal democratic processes there might exist.

In Trinity, there is a student levy, but lots of students simply opt not to pay it. One can still use all the bars, shops etc.

You say that if you don't pay your UCDSU levy then you won't be served in UCD? That's hard to believe since staff members are served and they certainly are not members of any student union. When was the last time you were asked to show confirmation of your UCDSU affiliation when you last bought a newspaper? And as for the bar, well the current setup is that you need a student ID, which I have.

dublinguy2004

AngelofFire wrote:

I dont want to get into yet another pro union vs anti union argument, but when you say ''why are USI so special?'' are you referring to USI as in the Union of students of Ireland or UCDSU as in University College Dublin Students union.

This is not an 'anti-union argument' as you say. I just don't want to be represented by any body (whoever they may be) that doesn't share my views.

AngelofFire wrote:

A students union is a representative body that looks after the interests of the students, whilst societies and clubs provide activities for students

[/QUOTE]

Eh a union should look after the interests of its members I agree, but I'm not a member thank you very much. Societies and Clubs also look after the interests of their members - a group of people who share the same interest/cause, just like a union.

AngelofFire

Eh a union should look after the interests of its members I agree, but I'm not a member thank you very much. Societies and Clubs also look after the interests of their members - a group of people who share the same interest/cause, just like a union

i dont understand your logic at all, do societies and clubs to anything to expand the grants system, prevent the re-introduction of tuiton fees and represent the interests of students on college authorities.

Syth

Someone was telling me that he wanted to leave the union when they took an anti-war stance, he wasn't sure if he could. He had the idea that he could get free legal aid from the students union on whether or not or how he could leave the union.

dublinguy2004

Syth wrote:

Someone was telling me that he wanted to leave the union when they took an anti-war stance, he wasn't sure if he could. He had the idea that he could get free legal aid from the students union on whether or not or how he could leave the union.

Bollox.

Red Alert

i would have no problem paying the SU and USI levies if they actually did anything useful. they seem to have spent all the money hiring buses for damn anti-****ing-deportation campaigns which none of us quite frankly give a toss about. it's not the SU's mandate and shouldn't be wasting time and money doing it.

Clive

So you want to partake of all the services the SU provide but don´t want to pay for them basically?

Red Alert

i like most of the other people here pay my SU fee. i do not want them to use it to hire buses and organise campaigns for their own political interests. they are being paid to represent the students nothing more nothing less. i use their services as paying member like everybody else does. am i wrong to say they shouldn't be fooling around with irrelevant demonstrations?

Vainglory

Red Alert wrote:

i would have no problem paying the SU and USI levies if they actually did anything useful. they seem to have spent all the money hiring buses for damn anti-****ing-deportation campaigns which none of us quite frankly give a toss about. it's not the SU's mandate and shouldn't be wasting time and money doing it.

It is the SU's mandate to oppose deportations. Motions were passed both last year and two years ago specifically calling on the SU to affirm an anti-deportation position. Last year it was following the deportation of Olunkunle Eluhanle, a sixth year student at the time. If it had been one year later he would probably have been a third-level student ; would it still seem so strange to you that his SU would assume an anti-deportation position?

Anyway, whichever way you view the SU's mandate on deportations, it is a decision which was made democratically when democratically elected class representatives voted in favour of it. Hard to argue with.

Jane Horgan-Jones
Education VP

Ed

I disagree with the government's policies, can i stop paying taxes please?
That's a bit of extreme, but i think you see the point. If you don't agree with the policies of the UCD SU, why don't you do something about it? The sabattical officers didn't get where they are by accident - they were elected by the students of UCD because the majority of the students who voted felt they they were the peope who would do the best job. It's quite possible that the actions of the surrent officers/SU, and those who have came before them do not reflect the views of the majority of registered students - but that's because the majority of students don't vote. It's all well and good to say that the SU doesn't represent your interests, and it's quite possible that the elected officers weren't the best candidates(i would say that though, wouldn't i?), and it has been shown in the past that people don't always vote for the best candidates - but it's their right to vote for whoever they want - and whether or not the people running things represent your personal interests, it's not their fault. They're the ones we elected. If they have a referendum on every decision they make there's gonna be a whole lot of time and money wasted.
The simple fact is, if you don't like the people who get elected, either leave or do your best to do something about it - whether that means attempting to mobilise the students who don't vote, and to get them to show more interest in their student's union, or run for something yourself.
Anyways, at least give the new folks a chance before you slaughter them.

The above was probably a bit rambly and nonsensical ,and i'm not arsed reading through it, so take it however you like.

dublinguy2004

Ed wrote:

I disagree with the government's policies, can i stop paying taxes please?
That's a bit of extreme, but i think you see the point. If you don't agree with the policies of the UCD SU, why don't you do something about it? The sabattical officers didn't get where they are by accident - they were elected by the students of UCD because the majority of the students who voted felt they they were the peope who would do the best job. It's quite possible that the actions of the surrent officers/SU, and those who have came before them do not reflect the views of the majority of registered students - but that's because the majority of students don't vote. It's all well and good to say that the SU doesn't represent your interests, and it's quite possible that the elected officers weren't the best candidates(i would say that though, wouldn't i?), and it has been shown in the past that people don't always vote for the best candidates - but it's their right to vote for whoever they want - and whether or not the people running things represent your personal interests, it's not their fault. They're the ones we elected. If they have a referendum on every decision they make there's gonna be a whole lot of time and money wasted.
The simple fact is, if you don't like the people who get elected, either leave or do your best to do something about it - whether that means attempting to mobilise the students who don't vote, and to get them to show more interest in their student's union, or run for something yourself.
Anyways, at least give the new folks a chance before you slaughter them.

The above was probably a bit rambly and nonsensical ,and i'm not arsed reading through it, so take it however you like.

It's ridiculous to compare the UCDSU and their levy to government and tax. And besides, if I didn't want to pay tax, I'd just leave the country or maybe renounce my citizenship or something. The UCDSU is precisely that, a union. Membership is optional and students should be more aware of this. Since when was it made law that all students are compelled to join one particular union?

And you're right, most students couldn't bothered voting let alone 'doing something about it'.

So the simple fact is, yes, leave. UCDSU is full of kno*!s (my opinion; I don't think I'm alone on this either!) who go around purporting to being in authority, but in reality nobody really cares what they get up to.

Dave!

dublinguy2004 wrote:

Since when was it made law that all students are compelled to join one particular union?

Labour Front in Nazi Germany, anyone?

I was just wondering, has anyone ever refused to pay the fee? Why not just, not pay it? I wonder what would happen... would they even notice?

arbeitsscheuer

DaveMcG wrote:

Labour Front in Nazi Germany, anyone?

I was just wondering, has anyone ever refused to pay the fee? Why not just, not pay it? I wonder what would happen... would they even notice?

The UCD Gestapo (a.k.a. "Services") would bring you in for some "routine" questioning. After 7 straight hours of "discussion" you emerge with an odd entranced look espousing the virtues of the very Student Union you attempted to leave.

UCDSU: Once in, never out. :cool:

Dave!

DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!!

AngelofFire

So the simple fact is, yes, leave. UCDSU is full of kno*!s (my opinion; I don't think I'm alone on this either!) who go around purporting to being in authority, but in reality nobody really cares what they get up to.

Thats not true at all, Sabbathical officers are busy everyday with personal cases, a lot of peoploe benefit from the welfare and education offfice. If it wasnt for student unions the governmnet would be walking all over the faces of students, and tuition fees would be well back in by now. The reason why membership isn`t optional, is because if a certain amount of people were to opt out, then the students union wouldnt have enough resources for those who need it the most. It is also not physically possible for someone to opt out, because sabbathical officers represent students on the governing authority, are you going to tell the sabbathical officers that you dont want them to represent YOU. Therefore if the Sabbathical officers manage to negotiate to extended library opening hours, then you`re not going to avail of the extended opening hours, because you opted out of them representing you. A students union is not a commoddittee its is an organisation working to try and make life in college better for everyone. Just because you have rich parents who can afford to pay fees doesn`t mean everyone else does, Now stop being so selfish and insular.

Blush_01

OP - if you had a problem that you wanted fixed and approached the SU, you'd more than likely be offered help, even if the outcome wasn't what you wanted. What about the subsidies on items in the SU shops, bars etc.? While I acknowledge that the staff in UCD probably don't pay affiliation fees to the Student's Union (possibly because they're not students???) they do have to pay membership fees to use the staff facilities. You can't expect anything for nothing.

Sure, you might not agree with what the SU or the USI does all the time, but do you agree with everything the government does or has done while you were of legal voting age? Likewise, to re-iterate the point made by Ed, the SU officers didn't just drop out of the sky into their positions. They campaigned and they got their places through a democratic process. If you didn't like the candidates, then why didn't you insigate the R.O.N. process, like was attempted with Shane Hennelly (sp?) last year? He turned out to be a damn fine welfare office, as far as I'm concerned. But the opportunity which was offered to all students to re open nominations was also there, as that particular case highlights.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't know a hell of a lot about the USI, but I far from mind paying my membership fee on an annual basis. They organised Pink Training last year with the help of USI affiliated colleges - no equivalent was organised where non-affiliated colleges were concerned. I, for one, believe that weekends such as the one of Pink are vital. You may not agree, maybe Pink has nothing to do with you, or you didn't even know it existed. Hoewever, without the USI there's no alterative weekend for colleges to meet up and discuss the issues that are covered at Pink. Sure, it may seem like one long p!ssup to many people, but for those who attend, it means something.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, you can whinge all you like, and get nothing done, or you can do something. If you avail of the services that the SU or the USI provide, then you don't have the right to b!tch about them without acknowledging the good along with the bad. If you don't avail of their services, then so be it, but others do - don't diminish whatever good they do simply because it doesn't suit you. Most of all, if you're not happy, then do something. There's plenty of hot air in the world - if it means that much to you, try some action instead of conversation.

Red Alert

I just think that items such as deportations or anti-war stuff (much of which I actually sympathise a lot with) have no place in the SU. They are there to represent current students, and they seem not always to be sticking to that brief.

m1ke

Every single year there's guff about USI, constant re-affiliation and de-affiliation B.S. has been going on since the 1970s.

If you don't like the way either union is run then you're free to try and change it. If not.... stfu.

Without these unions, students would become the most walked on sub-species out of humankind.... strength in numbers really does count.

Even if they're doing absolutely feck all.... their mere presence ensures certain safegaurds for students.

Zaph0d

AngelofFire wrote:

Also you seem to be comparing unions to student societies, that is as valid as a comparison between UCD and some of Irelands biggest shopping centres, they are both completely different from each other.

True, a shopping centre as ugly as UCD would have no customers.

Welcome to hell


this is where to study


and this is where to eat


etc.

Red Alert

Funny you don't see those wonderful architectural features on the brochures. It's really sad

Annasopra

dublinguy2004 wrote:

UCDSU is full of kno*!s (my opinion; I don't think I'm alone on this either!) who go around purporting to being in authority, but in reality nobody really cares what they get up to.

I'm going to repeat what I said (in the DCU thread to Dublinguy2004) UCDSU is the entire student body - it is not 5 sabbatical officers or 30 or 40 council members so if you are a UCD student (very doubtful - probably just someone with a personal grudge against USI) you're in fact calling yourself a kn*b