Snape: Good or Evil?? **spoiler alert**

Draupnir

I'd bank on it being, "Please Severus, do what I asked you to earlier in this book". What he asked him, we do not know.

Rhyme

If anything ive always thought Snape to be frustrated more than anything else, he'll turn out to be good in the end, but put in a snide word just as 'the big thing'* happens

*Whatever the big thing is

Scarinae

Die, Snape, Die...

Draupnir wrote:

I'd bank on it being, "Please Severus, do what I asked you to earlier in this book". What he asked him, we do not know.

I'd go with that, especially since earlier in the book (I think it was just after they visited Ron in the hospital wing) Hagrid let slip to Harry that he'd heard Snape and Dumbledore arguing, saying he didn't want to go through with it anymore... I think Dumbledore knew Snape would have to kill him to fulfil the unbreakable vow and had to convince him to do it

*marie*

Die, Snape, Die...

So most of us think he's innocent...
Now the question is what role will he play in Book 7? Come back and try and be some sort of mentor to Harry? (that's if harry doesn't kill him of course!)
It should be interesting to see who tries to convince Harry that Snape is innocent...

Rhyme

He'll have some kind pf presence in the book, enough to keep him in the frame but enough to keep Harry in the dark. Harry also has Dumbledores portrait to talk to.

bp

Die, Snape, Die...

i think that harry will kill snape and only find out then that he really was good.....a dual or something with snape telling harry that he had to do it, harry not believing and then him finding out that snape really was good.....mental anguish and all.........but wait...i am going to contradict myself.......mental anguish would mean unresolved issues....final book.......there cannot be any! wow i really confused myself with that one!

to summarise.......snape will tell harry, he wont believe snape, someone else will convince harry that snape is really good! maybe he helps kill voldy?

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

I like your original theory more - in that he kills Snape. Seems more appropriate.

Scarinae

Die, Snape, Die...

Yeah it does seem likely actually, and then we can have pages and pages of Harry agonising as in the last few books... Or maybe Snape will get to go "Harry... I AM YOUR FATHER!" (an interesting alternative to Voldemort) (although that wouldn't explain how Harry looks nearly exactly like James)

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

Well, there is the whole Snape/Lily thing... I think something along those lines is the 'big secret' about Lily we're all gonna find out. Maybe Harry just got lucky? Or maybe he has a half-brother?

omnicorp

the first book said that harry's dad saved snapes life.
Secondly, who was the person that was the bonder if there was an unbreakable vow between snape and dumbledore. eg, snapes unbreakable vow with malfoy's mother was bonded by malfoy's mother's sister (can't remember names)

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

I don't think there was an Unbreakable Vow between them, I get the impression it's on the fringes of Dark magic... Anyways, there doesn't need to be one, as the Vow between Snape and Narcissa would suffice if Dumbledore IS asking Snape to kill him...

omnicorp

well I suppose that explains dumbledores pleading.
Why did Dumbledore want to die though

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

So that Snape could be a spy, and to save Malfoy from the burden of killing - I remember Dumbledore says something about killing being a great step, soul-destroying or something...

omnicorp

so why not stop malfoy and protect him like he protected harry?

Civilian_Target

Draupnir wrote:

To stop Harry running out, attacking Malfoy and getting killed by all the Death Eaters?

But the death eaters weren't allowed kill him. Rememebr what Snape says. However, Dumbledore may not have known this when he froze him.

Personally - I think that Snape's bad, its that simple.

omnicorp

but dumbledore knows harry can defend himself against death eaters.
order of the phoenix

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

If Dumbledore knows Harry can protect himself, then why freeze Harry against the wall, unless it's so that the end result must be Dumbledore's death? After all, if he hadn't frozen Harry, the two of them could easily have taken Malfoy, and probably the other four too, even with Dumbledore weakened.

bp

Die, Snape, Die...

Dum died cause he was dying....someone said that earlier...the whole hand thing! oh it is mentioned in the book somewhere that someone (who i cannot remember...me thinks snape) made a potion to help with the hand thing!?

Dum never does things without a reason....he made sure harry saw him die and that Snape (not Malfoy) killed him....didnt he say that he knew Malfoy was up to something the whole time?

Horatio

Die, Snape, Die...

Of course we're all forgetting we are dealing with the most
powerfull wizard in the wizarding world where anything
is possible, so Dumbledore faked his own death in order to
get Snape on the inside, why else freeze Harry as he would know he would easily overcome Malfoy

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

If he faked his own death, why would Fawkes lament? And why would there be a portrait in the Headmaster's office? Also, storywise, it's a cop-out, and it ALSO would reek of copying Lord of the Rings - Gandalf and the Balrog anyone?

omnicorp

dumbledore was going to die anyway it may as well have been some use for harry

Horatio

Die, Snape, Die...

Sorry, don't buy it. All that shows is as usual Dumbledore
was being clever and taking care of everything. Note how the body was not shown at the funeral and that he has faced down Voldemort himself, even weakened Snape would be no match for Dumbledore. Besides remember what Moodey said about the Avada Kedavra curse ?
You have to really hate the person for the spell to work
and whatever Snape is he does not hate dumbledore, it just dosen't work

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

Moody didn't say anything about hate being necessary for the Unforgivable Curses. I think what you're talking about is Bellatrix saying that you have to mean them (at the end of OotP), and I'd say Snape meant to kill Dumbledore. If I'm wrong, please give me a page reference so I can see for myself.
I don't buy for one second that he's still alive - it's a cop-out. While we're at it, why not bring back Lily and James, and Sirius? Also, there's a body at the foot of the tower, and many people see it. So unless Dumbledore told half the faculty (but not Hagrid, MacGonagall or anyone who he would trust), he's dead.

bp

Die, Snape, Die...

Horatio wrote:

Sorry, don't buy it. All that shows is as usual Dumbledore
was being clever and taking care of everything. Note how the body was not shown at the funeral and that he has faced down Voldemort himself, even weakened Snape would be no match for Dumbledore. Besides remember what Moodey said about the Avada Kedavra curse ?
You have to really hate the person for the spell to work
and whatever Snape is he does not hate dumbledore, it just dosen't work

I dont really believe it but i hope you are right!!! i said it earlier....Dum is the most powerful wizard....unless he was already dying he died for a VERY good reason or he is still alive (heres hoping:-) )

Civilian_Target

Of course Snape meant to kill Dumbledore! If he didn't kill him, he'd be killed himself because of the unbreakable vow he made.

Lothaar

Die, Snape, Die...

My two cents:
Snape is good. He has protected Harry all the way through the series. Why would he do all those countercurses in the first book to thwart Voldemort (acting through Quirrell) if he was bad?
When Harry attacks Snape at the end of HBP, he calls Snape a coward. This has a profound effect on Snape, it really annoys him. Why is he so annoyed at being called a coward?

I’ll tell you why – because he has been in mortal peril of Voldemort discovering that he is really on Dumbledore’s side, despite all the double-agent posturing. He’s being quite brave, and it stings him that the guy he’s trying to protect is calling him a coward.

I believe that Dumbledore pleaded for Snape to go through with it, rather than to spare him. Dum froze Harry so that this part of the plan could be completed without Harry’s interference.

I think it’s quite possible that Snape took an Unbreakable Vow to protect Harry – to fulfil that vow he would have had to agree to take the other Unbreakable Vow… to finish off Malfoy’s task if Malfoy couldn’t do it. If he didn’t take the second vow, he would lose the trust of the Death Eaters and wouldn’t be able to protect Harry. (That one’s just a possibility, I’m not so sure about it.)

Also, Dumbledore explains that Harry has a power stronger than anything Voldemort possesses: love. Now, how does Harry zap Voldemort with the ‘power of love’? Well… he doesn’t. But he has taken advantage of this power all the way through the series. How? He has friends who love him and help him out, for instance. Ron and Hermione have got him out of a lot of sticky situations. Then there’s the likes of Moaning Myrtle, the girl who everyone hated but Harry showed a little compassion and she repaid him by helping him a good few times (Goblet of Fire, for example).

In each book, there has been a main character who shielded Harry from trouble. Now Harry’s on his own (well, he has Ron and Hermione, obviously, but you know what I mean). The thing is… I don’t think he will be on his own. Snape will help him out at the end. Thematically, I think this MUST happen, as Harry will win with the power of love, which will be manifested in other people’s love for him.
But Snape hates him???? Doesn’t he? Well, Dumbledore always trusted Snape. At one point in HBP he stops to think about whether Snape is trustworthy… he considers it and then states that Snape is definitely trustworthy (this is why I think an Unbreakable Vow might be involved, as Snape would be dead otherwise). There’s some information we don’t have, but Snape has his reasons for helping Harry.

Then there’s the guy whose life he spared at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban (can’t remember his name, he could transform into a mouse). Dumbledore mentioned how saving a life creates a very powerful bond and one day he might return the favour. This particular situation is a good way of illustrating the theme of the book. Voldemort inspires fear into everyone with whom he associates. Harry, on the other hand, has an uncanny ability to make friends with decent-hearted people – he inspires love. When it comes to the crunch, and rat-boy has to choose between the man he fears and the man he loves (ok, so he wouldn’t ‘love’ Harry, but Harry’s compassion was guided by love), he’ll choose the guy who saved his life.

Ok, I’ve gone completely off the rails. The point is – Snape is good. Dumbledore knew he had to die. Snape will save Harry in the end.

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

That is possibly the best summary of the whole Snape good/evil thing I've seen. I agreee wholeheartedly.

Scarinae

Die, Snape, Die...

Lothaar, I take my hat off to you *takes off hat*

Lothaar

Die, Snape, Die...

:cool:
Thanks! Actually, that was my first post ever on any Harry Potter discussion. After reading your comments I decided to surf around the web a bit to see what other people are saying about the Snape situation... and whoo-wheee! A lot of theories out there.

Lothaar

Die, Snape, Die...

Hey, I got another theory (although it's only a theory).

I think Harry himself could well be a Horcrux. That would explain how elements of Voldemort (parseltongue, etc) rubbed off on him. When Voldmort gave him the scar, it was just after killing Harry's parents... so it's in close proximity to a murder.

Anyway... what if Snape actually IS evil, and he is just trying to protect one of Voldemort's horcruxes! That's why he didn't kill Harry at the end of HBP!