Snape: Good or Evil?? **spoiler alert**

omnicorp

dumbledore was going to die anyway it may as well have been some use for harry

Horatio

Die, Snape, Die...

Sorry, don't buy it. All that shows is as usual Dumbledore
was being clever and taking care of everything. Note how the body was not shown at the funeral and that he has faced down Voldemort himself, even weakened Snape would be no match for Dumbledore. Besides remember what Moodey said about the Avada Kedavra curse ?
You have to really hate the person for the spell to work
and whatever Snape is he does not hate dumbledore, it just dosen't work

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

Moody didn't say anything about hate being necessary for the Unforgivable Curses. I think what you're talking about is Bellatrix saying that you have to mean them (at the end of OotP), and I'd say Snape meant to kill Dumbledore. If I'm wrong, please give me a page reference so I can see for myself.
I don't buy for one second that he's still alive - it's a cop-out. While we're at it, why not bring back Lily and James, and Sirius? Also, there's a body at the foot of the tower, and many people see it. So unless Dumbledore told half the faculty (but not Hagrid, MacGonagall or anyone who he would trust), he's dead.

bp

Die, Snape, Die...

Horatio wrote:

Sorry, don't buy it. All that shows is as usual Dumbledore
was being clever and taking care of everything. Note how the body was not shown at the funeral and that he has faced down Voldemort himself, even weakened Snape would be no match for Dumbledore. Besides remember what Moodey said about the Avada Kedavra curse ?
You have to really hate the person for the spell to work
and whatever Snape is he does not hate dumbledore, it just dosen't work

I dont really believe it but i hope you are right!!! i said it earlier....Dum is the most powerful wizard....unless he was already dying he died for a VERY good reason or he is still alive (heres hoping:-) )

Civilian_Target

Of course Snape meant to kill Dumbledore! If he didn't kill him, he'd be killed himself because of the unbreakable vow he made.

Lothaar

Die, Snape, Die...

My two cents:
Snape is good. He has protected Harry all the way through the series. Why would he do all those countercurses in the first book to thwart Voldemort (acting through Quirrell) if he was bad?
When Harry attacks Snape at the end of HBP, he calls Snape a coward. This has a profound effect on Snape, it really annoys him. Why is he so annoyed at being called a coward?

I’ll tell you why – because he has been in mortal peril of Voldemort discovering that he is really on Dumbledore’s side, despite all the double-agent posturing. He’s being quite brave, and it stings him that the guy he’s trying to protect is calling him a coward.

I believe that Dumbledore pleaded for Snape to go through with it, rather than to spare him. Dum froze Harry so that this part of the plan could be completed without Harry’s interference.

I think it’s quite possible that Snape took an Unbreakable Vow to protect Harry – to fulfil that vow he would have had to agree to take the other Unbreakable Vow… to finish off Malfoy’s task if Malfoy couldn’t do it. If he didn’t take the second vow, he would lose the trust of the Death Eaters and wouldn’t be able to protect Harry. (That one’s just a possibility, I’m not so sure about it.)

Also, Dumbledore explains that Harry has a power stronger than anything Voldemort possesses: love. Now, how does Harry zap Voldemort with the ‘power of love’? Well… he doesn’t. But he has taken advantage of this power all the way through the series. How? He has friends who love him and help him out, for instance. Ron and Hermione have got him out of a lot of sticky situations. Then there’s the likes of Moaning Myrtle, the girl who everyone hated but Harry showed a little compassion and she repaid him by helping him a good few times (Goblet of Fire, for example).

In each book, there has been a main character who shielded Harry from trouble. Now Harry’s on his own (well, he has Ron and Hermione, obviously, but you know what I mean). The thing is… I don’t think he will be on his own. Snape will help him out at the end. Thematically, I think this MUST happen, as Harry will win with the power of love, which will be manifested in other people’s love for him.
But Snape hates him???? Doesn’t he? Well, Dumbledore always trusted Snape. At one point in HBP he stops to think about whether Snape is trustworthy… he considers it and then states that Snape is definitely trustworthy (this is why I think an Unbreakable Vow might be involved, as Snape would be dead otherwise). There’s some information we don’t have, but Snape has his reasons for helping Harry.

Then there’s the guy whose life he spared at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban (can’t remember his name, he could transform into a mouse). Dumbledore mentioned how saving a life creates a very powerful bond and one day he might return the favour. This particular situation is a good way of illustrating the theme of the book. Voldemort inspires fear into everyone with whom he associates. Harry, on the other hand, has an uncanny ability to make friends with decent-hearted people – he inspires love. When it comes to the crunch, and rat-boy has to choose between the man he fears and the man he loves (ok, so he wouldn’t ‘love’ Harry, but Harry’s compassion was guided by love), he’ll choose the guy who saved his life.

Ok, I’ve gone completely off the rails. The point is – Snape is good. Dumbledore knew he had to die. Snape will save Harry in the end.

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

That is possibly the best summary of the whole Snape good/evil thing I've seen. I agreee wholeheartedly.

Scarinae

Die, Snape, Die...

Lothaar, I take my hat off to you *takes off hat*

Lothaar

Die, Snape, Die...

:cool:
Thanks! Actually, that was my first post ever on any Harry Potter discussion. After reading your comments I decided to surf around the web a bit to see what other people are saying about the Snape situation... and whoo-wheee! A lot of theories out there.

Lothaar

Die, Snape, Die...

Hey, I got another theory (although it's only a theory).

I think Harry himself could well be a Horcrux. That would explain how elements of Voldemort (parseltongue, etc) rubbed off on him. When Voldmort gave him the scar, it was just after killing Harry's parents... so it's in close proximity to a murder.

Anyway... what if Snape actually IS evil, and he is just trying to protect one of Voldemort's horcruxes! That's why he didn't kill Harry at the end of HBP!

Sleepy

Die, Snape, Die...

Not this one again :rolleyes:

Have a look at some of the other threads, most of us have dismissed the notion of Harry being a horcrux for a number of reasons...

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

And I really liked you Lothaar... Now I'll have to kill you!

Lothaar

Die, Snape, Die...

Ok ok, forget I said anything. That wasn't really me talking, it was my alter-ego, whose choices through his childhood led to him being evil whereas I ended up good. It's ok, though, he's due a rebirth pretty soon.

(Wahey, I cracked an in-joke! But you've probably heard it before... and dismissed it. )

Scarinae

Die, Snape, Die...

Lothaar wrote:

Ok ok, forget I said anything

Don't worry, my hat is still off

buddy

Die, Snape, Die...

What would we all if for some reason JK Rowling wasn't able to write the last book? Now thats a horrible thought.

P.S. Snape is good, doesn't particularly like Harry cause he reminds him too much about James, but James saved his life, he caused James to lose his life and he is Dumbledore's man through and through so wants rid of Voldemort.

popinfresh

theory 1) Dumbledore was evil all along, and he'll come back in the next book because of a horcrux. Vordemort knew the prophecy and his good friend Dumbledore spent six years sussing out Harry for him. Voldemort is afraid to die so he's going head over heals preparing for Harry.

theory 2) snape is a death-eater, and Dumbledore was wrong to trust him. Maybe JK Rowling is going for the "nobody is perfect, not even Dumbledore" approach.

theory 3) Snape was under that spell that controls people when he killed Dumbledore.

theory 4) Harry was becoming too dependent on Dumbledore, so Dumbledore made snape kill him in order to give Harry a motive to become stronger. So that he's be able to face Voldemort on his own.

Horatio

Die, Snape, Die...

supersheep wrote:

That is possibly the best summary of the whole Snape good/evil thing I've seen. I agreee wholeheartedly.

Down to a tee I would say, but as I have said already the world of Harry Potter is complex and JK can fill in for any moment in the book with a simple spell we as the unsuspecting public have never heard of, Sirius fell through a curtain and disapeared, with magic anything is possible, likewise Dumbledore,JK could deciede to leave him dead as is her right but I don't think so and I think we ( well some of us ) will be surprised next year............

Scarinae

Die, Snape, Die...

Well I think the whole phoenix-Dumbledore connection we keep seeing in the books is a very big hint that Dumbledore will rise again. Als, we didn'tactually see his body being buried - it was wrapped in a sheet, so what's to say it was actually Dumbledore? When Dumbledore was talking to Malfoy on the tower and was saying he could be protected, he said "He [Voldemort] cannot kill you if you are already dead" or something along those lines - similarly, if everyone including Harry and the Ministry and Voldemort think Dumbledore is dead then that means he has the ultimate cover doesn't he? If he's meant to be dead then nobody will be looking for him. And after all he could just go stay in the Hog's Head with his brother Aberforth, nobody would be any the wiser

supersheep

Die, Snape, Die...

Dumbledore being alive would be a cop out, if nothing else. Great as Dumbledore was, I don't feel the need to clutch at straws to bring him back. JK Rowling has repeatdely said that people don't come back from the dead - no spell can bring them back, I believe Dumblydorr says.
Dumbledore is dead. If he comes back to life, I will post a picture of me on the HP board eating my hat - well, a hat.
That's not to say he won't appear in a painting (he almost definitely will) or a Pensieve or something. But he is not alive.

Lothaar

Die, Snape, Die...

Lothaar wrote: »

My two cents:
Snape is good. He has protected Harry all the way through the series. Why would he do all those countercurses in the first book to thwart Voldemort (acting through Quirrell) if he was bad?
When Harry attacks Snape at the end of HBP, he calls Snape a coward. This has a profound effect on Snape, it really annoys him. Why is he so annoyed at being called a coward?

I’ll tell you why – because he has been in mortal peril of Voldemort discovering that he is really on Dumbledore’s side, despite all the double-agent posturing. He’s being quite brave, and it stings him that the guy he’s trying to protect is calling him a coward.

I believe that Dumbledore pleaded for Snape to go through with it, rather than to spare him. Dum froze Harry so that this part of the plan could be completed without Harry’s interference.

I think it’s quite possible that Snape took an Unbreakable Vow to protect Harry – to fulfil that vow he would have had to agree to take the other Unbreakable Vow… to finish off Malfoy’s task if Malfoy couldn’t do it. If he didn’t take the second vow, he would lose the trust of the Death Eaters and wouldn’t be able to protect Harry. (That one’s just a possibility, I’m not so sure about it.)

Also, Dumbledore explains that Harry has a power stronger than anything Voldemort possesses: love. Now, how does Harry zap Voldemort with the ‘power of love’? Well… he doesn’t. But he has taken advantage of this power all the way through the series. How? He has friends who love him and help him out, for instance. Ron and Hermione have got him out of a lot of sticky situations. Then there’s the likes of Moaning Myrtle, the girl who everyone hated but Harry showed a little compassion and she repaid him by helping him a good few times (Goblet of Fire, for example).

In each book, there has been a main character who shielded Harry from trouble. Now Harry’s on his own (well, he has Ron and Hermione, obviously, but you know what I mean). The thing is… I don’t think he will be on his own. Snape will help him out at the end. Thematically, I think this MUST happen, as Harry will win with the power of love, which will be manifested in other people’s love for him.
But Snape hates him???? Doesn’t he? Well, Dumbledore always trusted Snape. At one point in HBP he stops to think about whether Snape is trustworthy… he considers it and then states that Snape is definitely trustworthy (this is why I think an Unbreakable Vow might be involved, as Snape would be dead otherwise). There’s some information we don’t have, but Snape has his reasons for helping Harry.

Then there’s the guy whose life he spared at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban (can’t remember his name, he could transform into a mouse). Dumbledore mentioned how saving a life creates a very powerful bond and one day he might return the favour. This particular situation is a good way of illustrating the theme of the book. Voldemort inspires fear into everyone with whom he associates. Harry, on the other hand, has an uncanny ability to make friends with decent-hearted people – he inspires love. When it comes to the crunch, and rat-boy has to choose between the man he fears and the man he loves (ok, so he wouldn’t ‘love’ Harry, but Harry’s compassion was guided by love), he’ll choose the guy who saved his life.

Ok, I’ve gone completely off the rails. The point is – Snape is good. Dumbledore knew he had to die. Snape will save Harry in the end.

Ok... couldn't resist. Everything in this post was bang on! Me = ledge.

Annnnnd Harry was a Horcrux!

That is all.