Full scale gang fight near the Parkway

Amazotheamazing

Raiser wrote:

I have spotted only approx. 43 tourists in Limerick since 1992 - It is imaginable that approx. 9% of them have since begun legal proceedings against Bord Failte

Limerick has the highest average occupancy of hotels (though admittedly it has a low number of hotels) in Ireland so clearly there is more than 4 visitors a year. It is also only behind Cork in the number of people nominated by leaving tourists as exceptionally friendly.

limerick_man

I agree, but Limerick is the only place in the country where tourism rates rose this year, Limerick is building hotels and stuff everywhere! I doubt 9% of tourists begun legal processedings!!!

We need more amunities, post in the Ideas thing!

bazz26

Raiser wrote:

Limerick local newspapers regularily report muggings on Limericks main shopping thoroughfare Cruises street at approx 2-3pm on a Sat. (?)

A great many people find Limerick to be a grey souless, depressing, dangerous, small-minded, bleak, hole of a place - THAT IS A FACT - Think smoke and fire.

I have spotted only approx. 43 tourists in Limerick since 1992 - It is imaginable that approx. 9% of them have since begun legal proceedings against Bord Failte

Can you please name your sources for these "FACTS"?

Raiser wrote:

Finally:

It is now popular/fashionable to resolutely defend Limerick in the face of WHATEVER

"Yeah he was stabbed, but what the fu(k was he doing waiting for a cab at 2am anyway, like thats only asking for trouble - you get that anywhere like...."

- People should be proud of where they come from but problems HAVE TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED BEFORE THEY CAN BE SOLVED.

You should try living in Dublin for a while and see how long you will last waiting for a cab at 2am without some cheap tracksuit wearing scumbag called Deco puts a knife in your face demanding your wallet. Oh wait things like that only happen in Limerick right? :rolleyes:

Amazotheamazing

In fairness Rasier, I agree there is a lack of amenities. It's something that is only slowly being addressed.

limerick_man

Well ppl, have said alot that the place is pretty dull!!! But within the next two years it should lok great!

Redneck_Rebel

I'm sorry I haven't seen this since Friday so I'm a little behind.

SO it is to do with Circumstance that crime happens in Limerick, and it fine. I'm sorry if I walk down the street so. In future I'll contact the relevent public dept. to see what the forcast is like on the route home "light to moderate chance of crime with a hostile front approching from the adjacent streets".
When I hear this stuff it sicken me "it happens every where", in Cork, in Dublin. Sure sh1te, it shouldn't happen anaway. The worst thing I think is the whole scale denial that seems to grip some Limerick people. It is happening every where but jesus it is alot more ovious here than anywhere else. For the size of the city it should feel homey and more like a town than a city.
1. It would add a greater life and Buzz to the city
2. It would form more of a comunity and thus raise the awareness of any minor crime and this would discourage major ones

Limerick has the potential to be a great city but if the locals just say it happenes everywhere, it is only going to happen here and get worse. It think that Limerick should take its head out of it a$$ and stop thinking that is supose to be a crime haven and crack down on the little things and thus limiting the idea that crime is OK here, it isn't any where else. If it happened in Cork or Dublin People they would condem it.
Why won't Limerick People?

limerick_man

Redneck_Rebel wrote:

The worst thing I think is the whole scale denial that seems to grip some Limerick people.

Ok, if you are prepared to realise Cork is the second city, and is within a republic (not its own), then we will change! The largest scale of denial in Ireland seems to be Cork not realising for them to be the same size as the capital they need like an extra million people!!! Ye get out of denial, we will follow!

Redneck_Rebel wrote:

For the size of the city it should feel homey and more like a town than a city.
1. It would add a greater life and Buzz to the city
2. It would form more of a comunity and thus raise the awareness of any minor crime and this would discourage major ones

Are you selling something, hell building arthurs quay and crusis street added a greater life and Buzz to Limerick city, we agreed... didnt really do a whole lot!!! We need more to motivate us now, force works!!!

bazz26

Redneck_Rebel wrote:

I'm sorry I haven't seen this since Friday so I'm a little behind.

SO it is to do with Circumstance that crime happens in Limerick, and it fine. I'm sorry if I walk down the street so. In future I'll contact the relevent public dept. to see what the forcast is like on the route home "light to moderate chance of crime with a hostile front approching from the adjacent streets".
When I hear this stuff it sicken me "it happens every where", in Cork, in Dublin. Sure sh1te, it shouldn't happen anaway. The worst thing I think is the whole scale denial that seems to grip some Limerick people. It is happening every where but jesus it is alot more ovious here than anywhere else. For the size of the city it should feel homey and more like a town than a city.
1. It would add a greater life and Buzz to the city
2. It would form more of a comunity and thus raise the awareness of any minor crime and this would discourage major ones

Limerick has the potential to be a great city but if the locals just say it happenes everywhere, it is only going to happen here and get worse. It think that Limerick should take its head out of it a$$ and stop thinking that is supose to be a crime haven and crack down on the little things and thus limiting the idea that crime is OK here, it isn't any where else. If it happened in Cork or Dublin People they would condem it.
Why won't Limerick People?

The other side of the coin is that you have a small few people from other parts of the country coming on here perched on their stool looking down telling the rest of us how bad Limerick city is as if it was the only place in the country that xyz crimes/anti social behaviour takes place. The saying comes to mind "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

Yes, Limerick has it's problems but so do other areas in the country, nobody here is denying that but for some to rant on as if the rest of the country was perfect and crime free is bull.

If seems all too easy for some people to look into their neighbours garden and find something wrong while convienently ignoring their own.

Raiser

limerick_man wrote:

I agree, but Limerick is the only place in the country where tourism rates rose this year, Limerick is building hotels and stuff everywhere! I doubt 9% of tourists begun legal processedings!!!

We need more amunities, post in the Ideas thing!

tour·ist (tʊr'ĭst) pronunciation n. One who travels for pleasure.

I refute your fact/statistic with the unassailable contention that there is nothing to see or do in Limerick.
"Tourists" cannot derive pleasure from Limerick the same way as you cannot extract coco-pops from say twigs
and dead leaves - ITS IMPOSSIBLE.

Ergo these people are here by accident or on business and are shortly thereafter seen frantically trying to leave.

The tourists I have seen all look scared and edgy - some have even determined through patient and exhaustive
metallurgical practice that our most prominent landmark - Penny's Clock, is actually made from Chinese, Grade F plastic.

- To whoever queried my source on newspapers - it is not uncommon [seriously] for the Limerick Post newspaper to detail
all the stabbings, slashings and muggings on page 2 and to then have a little caption on the bottom saying "more stabbings
on page 5"

- I'm not making it up - unfortunately.

limerick_man

Raiser wrote:

I refute your fact/statistic

my fact??? I said hotels are being built and i doubt 9% of tourists dont like it here!!! Hotels are being built everywhere around the city... and i think tourists like it here! Thats not exactly a fact!

Raiser wrote:

The tourists I have seen all look scared and edgy

So I guess thats how u reconise someone as a tourist to the city! If there looked scared, they are tourists ... if they look like they are scaring people they are the locals!!!

Raiser wrote:

our most prominent landmark - Penny's Clock

Can i just say... if that is our most prominent landmark ... are tourist industary is ****ed!!!!
I guess people would travel around the world for a clock that was built about 30 years ago... with the pennys logo all over it!
But I'm sure your right, they come to see the clock not the world famous Cresent, or Irelands best presevred and most natural Georgian buildings*... or even King Johns Castle or the Treaty Stone not the angelus ashes tour, not for the sports, or the Shannon!!!

That even comes from a Dublin sorce!!!!

Redneck_Rebel

Rasier, they are not here by accident, there are coming from the airport in Clare and passing through.
I didn't start comparing Cork to Dublin, it was you who started to compare Limerick,Cork and Dublin. So don't start b1tching to me about doggy comparisons. When you when at that crap I let you at it but now that you got into it, Limerick should have a crime rate that is preportional to it size. That would entail that there would only be a tiny part that you couldn't walk into if you want to hold on to the items in your pocket. Now I'm sure that Myross and Southhill are not all bad but I don't want to find myself there. Most streets in the city are dodgy after dark. Well I bose in "comparison" to the rest of the city.

"If seems all too easy for some people to look into their neighbours garden and find something wrong while convienently ignoring their own."
Well when I inhabit my neighbours garden I have every right. You are the one ignoring other cities when it is convinient. The amount of crime in Dublin and Limerick may very well be the same but the size difference is a mojor factor, and don't start on about Facts now coz you were the one comparing the 2 cities earlier.

Raiser

limerick_man wrote:

Can i just say... if that is our most prominent landmark ... are tourist industary is ****ed!!!!
I guess people would travel around the world for a clock that was built about 30 years ago... with the pennys logo all over it!
But I'm sure your right, they come to see the clock not the world famous Cresent, or Irelands best presevred and most natural Georgian buildings*... or even King Johns Castle or the Treaty Stone not the angelus ashes tour, not for the sports, or the Shannon!!!

That even comes from a Dublin sorce!!!!

Penneys Clock can be seen in this cheery picture of Limerick on a "sunny" day



The Georgian buildings are the most wonderful Accountants, Auctioneers etc. offices on earth, I grant you that.....

The Cresent is where the road bends slightly to make a slight bow shape, I doubt that visiting Parisians see it and feel ashamed of the Champs Elysee.....

The Shannon is wet, cold and full of faeces and Tesco shopping trolleys....

King Johns Castle is resolutely defended by Knackeraguans and does it still have the Aluminum/PVC limp erection in front of it.....

The Treaty stone was created by the hardening of molten igneous rock and the pressure of moving plates in the earths crust, its hardly the Colosseum - come on its a rock on a moudly pedestal......

Finally, Angelas Ashes had a byline of "A miserable irish childhood in Limerick"

- Unfortunatley, I have also been treated to "A miserable irish teenage-years in Limerick"
- Also I cannot say I enjoyed "A miserable irish twenties in Limerick"
- SADLY I'm now embarking on "A miserable irish thirties in Limerick"

P.S. You know the ad they used to show in the Cinema - I'm from Limerick, showing all of the famous Limerick people who are sucessfull/famous etc. saying "I'm from Limerick"

- Should have been "I'm from Limerick - but I got the fu(k out years ago" -'cause I don't think any of them stuck around.....

Redneck_Rebel

limerick_man wrote:

Shannon!!!

QUOTE]
I'd go to Clare

martyFarty

I was born in and grew up in Limerick and I have to see some of the scariest places I've seen are in Limerick. Before hash became as readily available as it is today, we used have to cycle into the bowels of Southhill etc for our "ten spots". I've been in Dublin now for the last 2 years and I think the dirtballs up here seem to be pussies compared some of the pyschopaths in
Limerick. Maybe we should be proud. We've got the best knackers in the country. :cool:

Amazotheamazing

Well Limerick's Art Gallery is top class, as is the Hunt Muesum, and both Cathedrals are impressive, the national self portrait gallery is in UL, it is good enough for shopping (I suppose). Thomond Park is a great venue for rugby, one of the best club grounds in Europe. Suppose the Belltable is fine as a theatre. The castle's fairly crap though.

Limerick's real strenght (from a tourism point of view) is it's proximity to Shannon, and the tourist amenities in both Clare and Tipperary. there's no point saying otherwise.

limerick_man

Raiser wrote:

The Shannon is wet

Damn ok... you beat me there, damn you are so good at this arguing thing, people wont wanna come to a wet river... what was i thinking!!!

You seem to twist everything around, the georigian buildings may not be great for usage... but theu look great and tourists dont really care if the a/c upstairs feels he cant orginise properly or something!!!
The cresent is famous... and is a landmark, for the time it was a great achievment!!
The treaty stone is our heritage, our history, its got a great background and is a symbol for our city!

Raiser wrote:

- Unfortunatley, I have also been treated to "A miserable irish teenage-years in Limerick"
- Also I cannot say I enjoyed "A miserable irish twenties in Limerick"
- SADLY I'm now embarking on "A miserable irish thirties in Limerick"

Well, I'm a teen in Limerick, I love it here!!!

Raiser wrote:

- Should have been "I'm from Limerick - but I got the fu(k out years ago" -'cause I don't think any of them stuck around.....

No, loads of them still live here, most people who have left becuase of where theyre work brings them... this happens because Ireland isnt where they want there career to peak!!!


You seem to have forgotten the text on the page, here it is in full!

Limerick is the third largest city in Ireland. It was originally a Viking settlement, formed at the lowest crossing point of the river Shannon, where the Shannon meets the sea. The Shannon is the longest river in the British Isles, over 162 miles and is not only navigable along almost its entire length, but is also connected to many other waterways. The picture above shows King John's Castle, which guarded the Shannon and the picture below right shows O'Connell Street which is part of a comprehensive shopping area.

Limerick County has many world famous attractions including the beautiful village of Adare, Ardagh (where the Ardagh Chalice was found), and Foynes (from where flying boats carried 1000's across the Atlantic before jet aircraft gained dominance). Limerick City is only 30 minutes from Shannon International Airport with direct flights from the USA and Europe.

limerick_man

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Well Limerick's Art Gallery is top class, as is the Hunt Muesum, and both Cathedrals are impressive, the national self portrait gallery is in UL, it is good enough for shopping (I suppose). Thomond Park is a great venue for rugby, one of the best club grounds in Europe. Suppose the Belltable is fine as a theatre.

Yeah you defentatly put in some attractions that people do come a long way for ... but um... Thomond Park one of the top venues in EU?? I would agree if you said the gaelic grounds, hell it holds more people than Lansdowne road! People i dont think would come here (from abroad anyway) for anything going on in the Belltable!

Amazotheamazing wrote:

The castle's fairly crap though.

I think some of the things in the castle are great, the video really shows what happened during the time of the seiges (and boy is it funny)!!!!
When its summer, more is happening they have people in the courtyard and the miner etc.!!!

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Limerick's real strenght (from a tourism point of view) is it's proximity to Shannon, and the tourist amenities in both Clare and Tipperary. there's no point saying otherwise.

Well I mean sure our proximity to other tourist is a large part of why people come here, but not the only reason. And most of these attractions were built (the man made ones anyway) because of the city)! Limerick was at one stage the main place in Ireland, one of the first cities in the the world to get a charter.. the first in Ireland.
The city is steeped in history, it really is!!!

Amazotheamazing

Limerick_man, Thomond Park is recognised as one of the best venues in Europe, it has plays and songs written about it. Munster rarely lose there, the fans even gave an ovation to the first team to beat Munster in 7 years, the Welsh side Llanetli.

My point about the other places is that could be entertained as a tourist in Limerick, not necessarily that you'd travel the world to see them.

limerick_man

Oh you mean that its a big fuss ... not the actual facilites!! Like wrigly field in chicago "the friendly confines" munster has thomond park " the sound of silence"!

Well yeah, theres enough to entertain us... but the whole why choose Limerick isssue!

Amazotheamazing

Well why choose anywhere if thats the case? Dublin is the only real city in Ireland, or the republic at least. Cork has very few city centre attractions, though it's county is beautiful and it's pubs are way more lively than Limericks, same story with Galway, no buildings worth travelling to see, only 2 or 3 top class restaurants, no real gallerys or muesums, it has much better atmosphere (incredibly better if truth be told) on shop street, but even that is only 15 or so years old, since it was pedestrianised. Galway's night life is much better than Limericks, like I said a page or so ago, Limerick is dull, not ridiciously dangerous, but dull. We do have some great restaurants though.

The Lopper

I refute your fact/statistic with the unassailable contention that there is nothing to see or do in Limerick.
"Tourists" cannot derive pleasure from Limerick the same way as you cannot extract coco-pops from say twigs
and dead leaves - ITS IMPOSSIBLE.

Ergo these people are here by accident or on business and are shortly thereafter seen frantically trying to leave.

unassailable contention that there is nothing to see or do in Limerick? My, my i know Limerick isn't exactly Disneyland (and thanks be to god for that small mercy) but the argument that there is nothing to see or do in Limerick is idiotic.

If tourists did not enjoy themselves here, then nobody would come here, and therefore no-one would build hotels, or bother with developing tourist sites (King John's Castle, St Mary's Cathedral, Hunt Museum..etc). However they do, so it stands to reason that people are enjoying there stays in Limerick


Of course there is little reason to travel the world to Limerick, and i for one am glad. If mass tourism means all the pathetic Oirish shops for Yanks and walking down the street unable to pick out another Irish person like it does in Dublin, then fine, i don't particulary want floods of tourists anyway. I'm happy here, if you aren't i'm sure there's plenty of other cities in the world that'll take you.

jammin

martyfarty, raiser an redneck, ye have me laughing....

to everyone else defending limerick like theres no tomorrow i have a few cents to throw in the pot. There is obviously two sides to every arguement. Limericks women went down in history as defending the city with as much and more viciousness and fervour than the men did. (I wonder where 'limerick your a lady' comes from..) This is a good foundation for any city to begin with when embarking on a quest to be toughest. Ahem anyway the arguement here seems to be basically about how derserved limericks stab title is. It is of course total hogwash.... London, Glasgow, Limerick and Laois... the scumbags will get around you know. Crime and violence in Limerick is more organised than other cities if anything, I have lived in the city six years and I can safely say I've seen the same things in small towns out in the county that i've seen here. Things simply aren't as bad as the papers would like us to think.

However , and here comes the twist ~ what there IS in Limerick city is a bad attitude, atmosphere, aura.. call it what you will. This nasty vibe, aggro is what I can only call it. In fact I hereby renickname the city aggro city. I usually here the words '**** off' within a half hour of walking up town. This is undeniable fact, and all the marble and glass and refurbishments in the world can make up for the fact that -you keep your head down, do your work, say nothing to no-on and slink away home- this is limerick city. Since I've moved into this city i've witnessed a full swing around in the place. Socially all you can expect now is an army of shirts n shoes headin into their favourite meat n greet. Its all about the money... i have n't the words to describe it but if you know what i mean then maybe you too are born and bred in county limerick too and have to watch the foul culture of our city slowly infect the rural towns and villages. So before people start going on about the good points of the place.. I know we have many things going for us in the city right now but theres no quashing this vibe I tell you. I lived directly across the road from Spinmister.Willie O'Dea for a year and I got the very same vibe off of him. A sort of sickening smugness. Don't get me started on the government though...(I mean we fought to have our own government in the republic and then we let the biggest **** and eejits from around the country into it so they can laugh at us, openly)

All i know is 10 minutes out of the bus in Galway and I want to live there already. I cant wait for the day I can be on up outta dis biatch.

p.s to the teenager who says they are enjoying growing limerick etc... this is good to hear but honestly I think there were better pubs here when I was still a teenager. And I don't want to be scaremongering but I was set upon with huge sticks at the age of fifteen at a quite rural carnival out in limericks beautiful countryside so if you think you're safe now believe me, it can all change very fast when you're left for dead in a ditch by inbred scum (i never got over this , I just got very, very even).There's F' all here get out while you can, DONT get stuck in Limerick, you'll be glad you left.

Redneck_Rebel

Your point about aggro city is correct. That was close to what I was saying a while ago. I think that Limerick could be turned around if the people here stoped saying "we will fix ours when you fix yours".

Amazotheamazing

Whe-hey, we're making progress, from a "dangerous violent city" to a "bad tempered" city in 4 short pages, pretty soon we'll be a "slightly annoyed city", before moving on to become "a bit exasperated city", and finally "ah sure, why worry about it city". In fairness there's a lot of truth in Jammin's post. Can you change the attitude of a city though? How?

Btw, the original quote about the women of Limerick was "the women fought beside the men, and every man a match for ten."
The scribe obviously commenting that Limerick men are the match of any other 10 men, such was/is their passion and fervour.

Redneck_Rebel

I'd say they mixed that up every time you are mugged now you are surounded by 10 Limerick people "can I make a call BUD?"
I never said that I was down gradeing the cities status to "bad tempered" I just agreed that it is. You would only give out about people looking down on Limerick if I would and the last thing I want to do is get on the wrong side of a limerick person.

Yes you can change the attitude of a city the most successful example of this is in the septics. In New York they are after changing the attitude of the city. I'm not on about the Sept. 11 sh1t. Before this, in the 90's it was considered a rough city with an air of disreguard. They started to crack down on the small crimes like grafete and muggings. This has cut the major crimes down as a result. The reson for this is that all the crimes that were being commited are being delt with. It takes time to do this but if it was done in Limerick the city would be safer and a better place to live.

IceHawk

No, they're right. The problem in limerick seems to be that Limerick people are just more easily annoyed than those from Galway or any smaller cities/big towns. It could be down to a lack of public amenities. People have the attitude that they don't owe the city anything, and civic pride is very low (except possibly among scumbags, but that's not the sort of pride we're loking for here). Maybe when Limerick changes it's image sufficiently there will be an increase in the number of people proud to be from the area and consequently more pro-active about problems.
At the moment a whole lot of people seem to be saying that they're just in Limerick till they can get a train out of here. If the city becomes a more desirable place to live, maybe people will start showing greater interest in improving the place.

Redneck_Rebel

Amazotheamazing wrote:

I've always found Limerick people to be friendly

IceHawk wrote:

The problem in limerick seems to be that Limerick people are just more easily annoyed than those from Galway or any smaller cities/big towns

I mean you have just made a U-turn in your argument. Well the Limerick side of the argument.

Are we correct in thinking that Limerick is an unfriendly city so, or what in chri$t name is going on?

Amazotheamazing

Well I can't speak for IceHawk, I've always found Limerick people to be friendly.

One of the reasons I blame for the city's atmosphere is that effectively there's a one way dual carriage-way running through the heart of town. Think about O'Connell street, it's 2 lanes of continually heavy traffic, which makes the city centre loud, dirty and smelling of traffic. Added to that are the ugly signposts etc, that go with busy roads. It's just unattractive.

Also there are very few high quality apartments in the city centre (though this changing), which reflects the standard of tenant that lives there. The best addition recently has actually been the number of Polish people living in town, as they seem to be pleasant, sociable people (in the most part), which makes these city centre streets (even:)) more friendly.

IceHawk

No turn around, I'm just saying that Limerick, however undeserving it might be of the reputation stamped on it by the media, would benefit from a change of attitude from some of it's citizens. The current negative attitude is largely due to the fact that the media is always putting the city down - whatever you say about the facts of crimes in limerick, the truth is that as a city we recieve disproportionate coverage on crime.

Amazotheamazing

"Like a dog thats been beat too much, til you spend half your life just covering up" type stuff eh IceHawk? Is nothing Bruce can't teach us?

Redneck_Rebel

IceHawk wrote:

No turn around, I'm just saying that Limerick, however undeserving it might be of the reputation stamped on it by the media, would benefit from a change of attitude from some of it's citizens. The current negative attitude is largely due to the fact that the media is always putting the city down - whatever you say about the facts of crimes in limerick, the truth is that as a city we recieve disproportionate coverage on crime.

So it a big catch 22 the media coverage is the reson that it is un friendly and you would be a happier people only for this. And the media is only reporting the unfriendly antisocial behaviour(disproportionatly or not).

Amazotheamazing

Redneck_Rebel wrote:

. And the media is only reporting the unfriendly antisocial behaviour(disproportionatly or not).

Therein lies the problem, the media only report the bad stuff, particulary the rag that is the Limerick Leader. 2 top people in athletics have tipped Limerick as the perfect base for athletes training for London 2012, yet whenever they get quoted it's always prefaced by some story that happened 3 years ago or something. My brothers and I have all trained, often on our own, along the canal or the river paths without ever having bother, no one I know who trains there has problems there either, so why keep quoting the same negative story?

Redneck_Rebel

Amazotheamazing wrote:

One of the reasons I blame for the city's atmosphere is that effectively there's a one way dual carriage-way running through the heart of town. Think about O'Connell street, it's 2 lanes of continually heavy traffic, which makes the city centre loud, dirty and smelling of traffic. Added to that are the ugly signposts etc, that go with busy roads. It's just unattractive.

I'm not sure about this as all cities have traffic problems. Well all Irish cities anyway. I think that the city would benift from more pedestreian streets but this could also back fire as it would give scobes a larger area of the city that they could "hang out"

IceHawk

I agree with Amazo, The whole of Limerick is like a maze of one way streets. More pedestrian streets are a good idea though. The city centre is a nightmare to get around on foot. I like cork's centre where they have all the pedestrian streets coming off the main street. Something like that would be good in Limerick, on a smaller scale. I've also always thought that the market on saturday has huge potential as an attraction to the city, but there needs to be some work done in the area tomake it more appealing.
As to the chicken and egg thing with the media coverage, I agree that Limerick has gone through some bad times, but the lasting effect has been that every single violent act in Limerick is reported nationally. Example: Yesterday, the Irish Sun ran an article suggesting Limerick was as bad as ever, with higher murder rates over the last four years than Dublin or Cork. It mentioned that Limerick hasn't had a murder in the last 12 months, while West Dublin has had 8, but it implied that this was just a temporary lull in limerick crime and that the fact that we've had a 'year off' and are still ahead of the other cities is a sign off how bad Limerick is instead of how the city has improved in the past couple of years.

Redneck_Rebel

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Therein lies the problem, the media only report the bad stuff, particulary the rag that is the Limerick Leader. 2 top people in athletics have tipped Limerick as the perfect base for athletes training for London 2012, yet whenever they get quoted it's always prefaced by some story that happened 3 years ago or something. My brothers and I have all trained, often on our own, along the canal or the river paths without ever having bother, no one I know who trains there has problems there either, so why keep quoting the same negative story?

The facilities are in the county to train, they are all in UL. The problem about this being a Limerick city plus is that half of it is in Clare. By right it should be ULC coz you have GMIT and it is only fair if you use their land that they get the recognetion for it.

Can I ask you a Question about running, would you carry much in your pocket when running?

Redneck_Rebel

IceHawk wrote:

I agree with Amazo, The whole of Limerick is like a maze of one way streets. More pedestrian streets are a good idea though. The city centre is a nightmare to get around on foot. I like cork's centre where they have all the pedestrian streets coming off the main street. Something like that would be good in Limerick, on a smaller scale. I've also always thought that the market on saturday has huge potential as an attraction to the city, but there needs to be some work done in the area tomake it more appealing.
As to the chicken and egg thing with the media coverage, I agree that Limerick has gone through some bad times, but the lasting effect has been that every single violent act in Limerick is reported nationally. Example: Yesterday, the Irish Sun ran an article suggesting Limerick was as bad as ever, with higher murder rates over the last four years than Dublin or Cork. It mentioned that Limerick hasn't had a murder in the last 12 months, while West Dublin has had 8, but it implied that this was just a temporary lull in limerick crime and that the fact that we've had a 'year off' and are still ahead of the other cities is a sign off how bad Limerick is instead of how the city has improved in the past couple of years.

But Limerick shouldn't even come near to Dublin or even Cork coz of the population differece. So Limerick has more murder than the two bigger cities in the country. Then the fact that the media highlights this sends you into a rant about the slant they put on it.

IceHawk

My point was that the city is improving. Read the post. It was so bad that even after a year without a murder, Limerick still has on average more murders than Dublin or Cork. But in actual fact, West Dublin alone had 8 murders in the past year, while Limerick had none. If you look at a shorter, more recent timeframe for the statistics, Limerick is infinitely better than Dublin (No offence to any Dubliners out there )

Redneck_Rebel

So on a shorter time frame I'll grant you that it is better than Dublin but the fact still remains that over the past 4 years Limerick outstriped a city that is in all fairness over 10 time bigger (in population) in the murder stakes. Now tell me that is alright.

Did you ever hear DJ gary on 2FM take the mick out of Limerick for being harder than any part of dublin. You should be happy.

Amazotheamazing

I don't run with anything in my pockets, but I'll have a gps watch, and ipod, and a good pair of shoes so I am probably worth mugging if you're planning something.

I think you'll find crime figures are per capita, so as a % Limerick compares to Dublin, or Cork, not actual number of crimes committed.

Galway or Cork don't have dual carriageways running through the very heart of the city.

Redneck_Rebel

It not a dual carrage way it is two lanes in the one direction. To have a dual carrage way it would have to have the same going the other way as well(dual). Unless the speed limit in the city is 100Km I'm not buying it. Well you'd thing that a city with a smaller population could expect a smaller percentage of crime per capita due to more accountability But no, and you can't argue with the figures.
Its like statistics. Ask the right people and you can get what ever you want. You ilimanate the past 3 years and Limerick is great, no murder.

Amazotheamazing

Actually include the last year and you still get no murder.

But on the Carriagway point, how many of the cars on O'Connell street are going to stop in town? how many are driving on to Galway or Cork? It simple isn't pleasant to have such a busy road running along the mainstreet in your town, look at how towns like Nenagh are improved by being bypassed. It just makes towns more pleasant not to have trucks and cars trundling through. Surely you agree Patrick street in Cork is way nicer since traffic calming measures were introduced, as is Shop Street in Galway or even O'Connell street in Dublin.
BTW (and I could be mistaken) the dual in dual carriageway refers to 2 lanes going one direction, unlike what most Irish roads were up until recently, one lane going either way.

jammin

Lets keep the discussion nice n healthy in here lads! We've all only got slightly
different views so this debate actually has a good chance of being productive.

Amazo, first off my comment on the limerick women thing was based on historic accounts I once read from
foreigners amazed at the fact that that the women in limerick fought alongside the men. Their viciousness
was not something many foreigners had seen in women previously. I only put it in there to start the post off
with a splash of humour;) we wont argue bout it!

The points raised about changing the general attitude of a city are very interesting,
I do believe this is possible of course but it has a lot to do with the media these days,
creating an image and keeping it, sort of like they have done in galway (they have turned it
into an Arts capital of Ireland when Limerick and Dublin would previously have superseded here,
good thinking I say, mix it up a bit) Limerick of course had to take a full blown commercial stance
and promote itself as a rising industrial city, all well and good but does that make the place
more or less inviting in terms of sheer humanity. If you abandon all the simple little things such as
the fact that Limericks pubs are practically dead compared to what they were. Pubs help to
gel people together, of all cultures n creeds, the smoking ban etc has seen Limerick folk drinkin at home
with friends/family, which is fine but this reclusive tendency has really caught on here which will have a big
effect on tolerance. People dont talk and mingle enough, especially with foreigners. Limerick is going to be forced
to be multicultural one way or another, there are polish chinese nigerian spanish arriving here in massive numbers.
Will this make us pull our socks up, of course not, segregation will be rife and a massive divide has already begun.
There is a polish pub already (which i am definitely going to pay a visit to, i love their beer:) ) which we should all
make an effort to be seen in so that it shows some of us are happy to meet new people!

Limerick city will no doubt change again dramatically over the next few years, I see no reason why we suddenly
couldn't find ourselves for once, not embarrassed to take our friends out in our hometown. I just think that its
more likely to happen naturally or by accident or default. A few years back I thought I could see a defineable
interesting aspect to limerick emerging, we were becoming rated for music especially, poetry and art were
all very exciting. We were a different sorta town! Now its all looking a bit faceless.

If i am to make one viable suggestion as to where to begin on a quest to save Limerick, one would have to begin by
taking over the Limerick Post (I wont go into it but u know what i mean, they put more influence on Celia holman Lee
and the weeks robberies than anything else, affectively backing up the view that Limerick is a scummy city with
a ridiculous plastic facade).

On taking over the Limerick Post ones next move should be to use all ones might and energy to use this platform to
make the Limerick Post the new Limerick Leader. Sort of a similar situation to Radio Limerick One Versus Limerick 95fm.(truth v crap)
Ones next move would be to celebrate for a year at the fact that the local newspaper is now at least is run by an
intelligent workforce reflecting our city accurately, being in touch with the true grain of things,
actually reporting and not just being some dirty little advertising whore. I've said it before and ill say it again,
when the people running the show make you wonder why you ever went to school, its always
going to be a rollercoaster ride of doom with regard to constructive social evolvement. The main problem with this city
is planning, basically, we deal with our problems when they've gone round the clock a few times, other cities like Cork
and Galway have the ability to forsee problems and use things to their advantage. Limerick cant even handle
the students fom UL coming into town for a night out. The county council is corrupt as fook and our top scumbags and
who's who's are allowed away with murder. >Breathe<

just looked up, i must look like a ranting lunatic. sorry i just typed till I heard someone shout f ' off from
outside in the street;) . Hmmm i hear it starts getting warm this time of year in AUSTRALIA.

Tuesday_Girl

Raiser wrote:

grey souless, depressing, dangerous, small-minded, bleak, hole of a place [/U]

Couldn't have put it better myself!

bazz26

Raiser wrote:

grey souless, depressing, dangerous, small-minded, bleak, hole of a place

Razzle wrote:

Couldn't have put it better myself!

It amazes me how the Irish continue to belittle each other at every opportunity and the "my place is better than yours" attitude is as strong as ever.

We all still have alot of growing up to do.

Karmafaerie

First off, I used to post on this site a lot a few months back.
I stopped because I just got fed up of the same old, "Limerick is crap, no it isn't argument!" (Of which I'm ashamed to have been an active participant!)

Imagine my shock to see a (semi) civil discussion on the subject!!! :eek:
Anyway, I'm about to make up for lost time here, so please bear with me!
a lot of people have been making some insightful comments, so I'll try and address a few!
Rebel, your right about a few things! Limerick people do tend to come up with the same old tired "Ye're just as bad as we are comments." The fact that the problems in Limerick are shared in the rest of the country, and on the same scale, per capita is besides the point. We should always try and address every problem. Why should we be content with being as bad as everyone else!
At the same time though, the fact remains that no matter how much good happens in Limerick, the national media will never let us let go of the past!
Only a few months ago, RTE ran a show about a murder that happened (and was solved) in Limerick nearly 10 years ago!
Why?!
What good does that do?!
The amount of articles written by mainly Dublin reporters about a county, that for the most part, they've probably never been to is ridiculous!
Only recently an article (I’m not sure what paper) referred to the Ballysimon Road area of Limerick as a haven for drug crime!
What!!!
I've lived in the area for just short of 20 years, and anyone who knows Limerick will tell you that, that's as far from the truth as possible!

As for all the comments on Limerick pride, I think you couldn't be more wrong!
A lot of Limerick people, have a stronger sense of county pride because of all the bad mouthing that we receive!
Whenever you go out in a city, that you're not native to, you feel anxiety, and trepidation! It's only natural, I feel that way when going out in other Irish cities, and abroad!
Just cause you may feel that way in Limerick, is no indication on the city itself!

Sorry again for prattling on, but it really is good to see a discussion on the topic that hasn't devolved into an adolescent slagging match!!!

P.S. Hey Limerick_Man, it's good to see that some things never change!
It wouldn't be a proper forum without Billy threatening to bar you at least once!!!!!

Amazotheamazing

The problem that you have only touched on Jammin is that Limerick isn't a tourist city, it is an industrial city, but the main rates from these industries go to county Limerick, not Limerick city. The hinterland of Limerick is the second richest in the country, according to the census, only behind Dublin's, yet Limerick city is the poorest city. This disparity cannot be overestimated. People expect the city council to provide services they simply can't afford, the arts generally don't pay for themselves, but tend to increase the overall wealth of an area due to increased tourism etc. Were Limerick to fund an art festival, film festival etc, it would need to bring a big name sponsor on board, but naturally sponsors don't want to be associated with a negative image like's Limerick's. It'll be interesting to see whether Riverfest can become a success.

But there is some cause for hope. As several threads already mention there is a lot of building going on in Limerick, which should make the city more attractive, more pedestrian friendly, increase employment and crucially, increase rates.

The plans do include for traffic calming on O'Connell street, pedestrianisation and partial pedestrianisation of the city centre. The plan to rebuild Thomond Park (already a surprising source of tourism) should be a help. We have to sell HEC games in Limerick as a unique experience, the historic ground, pints in Clohesseys after etc. Also the continued growth of UL, such as rebranding the hospitals "University Hospital Limerick" and the new school of architecture must be a good step.

The tunnel under the Shannon will decrease the the through traffic coming from the South, and the proposed new bridge at Killaloe (?) should decrease traffic coming from the North.

Obviously these developments will be futile if people don't view the city centre as an attractive place to both live and shop, though increased cctv, plus Mayor Scully's plans for street ambassadors may help.

Obviously all these plans will take years to fully implement, and even longer before the full fruits are seen. Personally I'd say we are at the beginning of a 10 year plan.

Raiser

A few points.....

Limerick is Limerick. It is planted on the Midwest of Ireland like a blister on a boil. Positive media reporting cannot make it more than the sum of its parts & negative reporting, again, cannot make it less than its parts. This is because, and I repeat, Limerick is Limerick.

Limerick is as people find it. To some it is a place to be proud of and to others it is a place to be tolerated. In fact, after my negative [truthful] input, I did feel a bit guilty after Limerickman [I think it was] made his comments about thinking that Limerick is a fine place - personally I envy him this outlook and I do sincerely think it is a good and positive way to live and be.

I don't think that anyone has focused on the ring of poverty around Limerick. Deprived areas circle Limerick almost completely, and they are for the most part shunned and ignored by the citizens of our two car leafy suburbs until one of these cars becomes a bonfire on the wrong side of town. Then attention shifts to how we can punish/blame/imprison/castrate etc. without ever trying to take a single positive step....

Limerick, as discussed, has a city has embarrassingly few amenites - however, the typical deprived area/estate in Limerick has nothing to speak of, and in fact if you were not born and bred locally you wouldn't feel comfortable walking through them and any time of day or night. It seems to me that without any outlet of any kind these folks often end up beating the sh1t out of people, most likely not even contemplating the complex socio-economic-historical factors that have put their victim [repeatedly] beneath their tatooed knuckles.

Karmafaerie

Raiser wrote:

A few points.....

I don't think that anyone has focused on the ring of poverty around Limerick. Deprived areas circle Limerick almost completely, and they are for the most part shunned and ignored by the citizens of our two car leafy suburbs until one of these cars becomes a bonfire on the wrong side of town. Then attention shifts to how we can punish/blame/imprison/castrate etc. without ever trying to take a single positive step....

Limerick, as discussed, has a city has embarrassingly few amenites - however, the typical deprived area/estate in Limerick has nothing to speak of, and in fact if you were not born and bred locally you wouldn't feel comfortable walking through them and any time of day or night. It seems to me that without any outlet of any kind these folks often end up beating the sh1t out of people, most likely not even contemplating the complex socio-economic-historical factors that have put their victim [repeatedly] beneath their tatooed knuckles.

I don't konw what thread you have been reading, but it was been pointed out, a few different times by a few diffent people, that the planning of Limerick is the problem!
Limerick was very badly planned out.
The creation of large uninterupted council housing estates, with no meneties, led to the degredation of these areas as a whole, and caused the problems that these areas now face.
It has also been pointed out, that because of the downright ridiculous boundry of Limerick city, the city is unable to afford to change these problems.
We all know that Limerick has problems, but it is very hard to address these problems, when the national media, and anyan one who thinks they have a sense of homour continually take potshots at Limerick!
Also, I love the way that you talk about ho we should help out the "underprivilaged" people in these areas, with one side of your face, while referring to them as being tatooed knuckled, an obviously derogitory term, with the other side!
Very classy!!!

Raiser

Karmafaerie wrote:

Also, I love the way that you talk about ho we should help out the "underprivilaged" people in these areas, with one side of your face, while referring to them as being tatooed knuckled, an obviously derogitory term, with the other side!
Very classy!!!

Yeah, go on, get all politically correct on me.... whine on and perhaps I'll come around to YOUR small-minded itty-bitty, whiney way of micro-analysing irrelevant points until we get to the end of our 1991 Live at 3 knitting pattern, then we'll all go over to Nora's and drink Barry's tea until its time to put on the dinner.

Its people like you that are born and destined to become small-time Limerick City Councillors yelling at each other about whether or not the Traffic Wardens are adequately equipped, trained and compensated to deal with the chewing-gum ridden paths of Lim-rock.

IceHawk

Problems in deprived areas are self-sustaining. It's of absolutely no use saying our problems are acceptable and therefore ignoring them. This sort of attitude allows the problem to fester and become more pronounced. The only real way to combat the problems in Limerick is to do everything possible to alleviate the original cause of the problem. This is probably, as Raiser pointed out, due to a lack of activities and amenities for people.

It's already been pointed out that Limerick is essentially two seperate cities, and it's when these two collide that it hits the headlines. Improving infrastrucrure around the city centre will doubtless be aimed at the tourism and business side of the city, but if Limerick people in general see the city as something to be proud of, more energy will be put by local people into their local areas. People will take more of an interest in the city's reputation and those who belittle it from the inside will be in a smaller and smaller minority.

I think that people who live in Limerick but still mock it should take a really good look at the city. If you've lived here for more than a couple of years, you should be able to say that there has been a visible improvement in the city, particularly in the past six months. A positive attitude among residents should go without saying. I'm not saying we should pretend there are no social problems in Limerick, but focusing on the problems rather than the solutions only makes things worse for everyone.