European Super Cup

Necronomicon

Well, fair play to them for turning the result around....but I don't think it was exactly an inspiring performance, maybe a bit worrying for future CL ties against tougher opposition.

galwaydude

i managed to watch the second half onwards as one of the guys here has a tv card on his PC.
I agree garcia was shocking as per usual, why cant he learn to hold up the ball and pass to teamates.


dont know why we signed zendon either in the first place as he provides nothing to the midfield, no wonder chelsea let him go to boro.

Rant over

Jivin Turkey

Am I the only one that thought Josemi played particularly well? Especially in the first half where he made some brilliant tackles? The only reason he looked exposed a bit in the second half was when we were chasing the game and he was getting no cover from midfield.

galwaydude

josemi played very well, i was surprised, he even had a shot in the second half too, coming in from midfield.

el rabitos

Am I the only one that thought Josemi played particularly well? Especially in the first half where he made some brilliant tackles? The only reason he looked exposed a bit in the second half was when we were chasing the game and he was getting no cover from midfield.

he was good in the first half, but was exposed a couple of times in the second half.

i thought he was very good against sofia there on tuesday when he was playing in the centre with hyypia. he reads the game well, but seems to be prone to a lack of concentration

hoolio

A few random thoughts:

Zenden has been dire in every match i've seen him play this season.Can't beat someone,couldn't cross his legs let alone a ball.

Garcia's finishing sucked (putting it mildly) but he was the only Liverpool player actually getting in positions to have a shot for 80 minutes. Good movement for the goal also. Very patchy,but at least he had a few efforts on goal.

IMO Morientes performance was much more worrying for LFC fans, he really looks like the shell of a striker, doesn't seem to have any spark whatsoever anymore,no anger in his shots. Even worse is that he is guaranteed a place under Benitez atm. Benitez has limited Cisse to 15-20 minute run outs and a right wing slot while Morientes does, nothing, basically.I seem him barely scraping past ten league goals this season, if at all.

Cisse had some luck but he still changed the course of the game completly. First was ball to hand, for the second i think he wanted to really hammer it home to show up Benitez, didn't work,tucked away the rebound . Great cross for the last one, still is not a winger though. He can cross in situations on the break like that but should not be given the ball outside the box,with a crowded area and asked to skip past and whip a cross in,its just not his game - might as well ask Reina to do it. Cisse wants to play,is highly motivated and needs the manager to show some faith, stop wasting him out wide and give him a chance .

Personally i don't like Benitez's whole usual system of play.I hate the one up front thing and it makes for poor poor soccer .The problem IMO being that to play with one striker, two wingers and one midifelder getting forward is that for it to work well either the striker has to be absolutely world class, or the two wingers do. Liverpool have neither. Chealsea can play a similar system successfully because they always have Duff/Robben/SWP to guarantee quality on the wings. Liverpool have Zenden/Garcia/Kewell - quite a contrast. Drogba is by no means great and Crespo is still finding his English form but they are still both far more suited to playing a lone striker role then anyone on Liverpool's team. Maybe a few years back Morientes could have done it, not any more. Cisse is totally the wrong type of player to be a lone striker. Crouch is useful as a battering ram against lower opposition,away from home,in the pouring rain, and thats about it if you ask me.

Liverpool need real creative quality outside the box,quickly. Alonso will feed cross field balls out to the wings all day long but right now they have no one who can do anything with it. Cheapo bargain solutions like Zenden/Giannakopolous are just not the answer if you ask me,not for a club who just won the Champions league and have ambitions of breaking into the big 3.

Personally over the summer i would have sold Gerrard to Chelsea in exchange for Duff and as much cash as possibly. Then gone and tried to buy soemone like Joachim/SWP/Rothen even. IF Liverpool really want to crack the big time it's going to cost them,thats the sad truth of it. They either need to buy big or else scout out some young hot prospects. Cheap players are fine (and necessary at times) but they don't win trophys. (you can't win anything with kids/cheap bastards etc).

Even if he is on such a tight budget then i still wouldn't have signed Zenden - why not Nakata instead? Why didn't he go in for Routledge? Celtic paid for Nakamura with pennies and bits of string ffs.

I really think Benitez should go back to a more othodox 4-4-2 - its a classic for a reason - it works.
With the players he has right now,i'd play a front 6 of

Finnan-Gerrard-Alonso-Riise/Kewell

---

Garcia-Cisse

Liverpool need a centre half, TWO wingers badly (unless Kewell stops being lazy,whining,spoilt etc) and i suppose if Owen is going cheap i'd probably buy him too.Especially seeing as Newcastle bought Luque i doub't they'll go for Owen seriously now.

On the performance overall, it was impotent really. They were clearly better then CSKA but just didn't know how to score.But a win is a win i suppose.I'd be more concered if they kept playing like that in the league.


Wow,i didnt think i'd go for such a rant right now,but thats insomnia for you.

PHB

Liverpools best player by an absolute mile is Steven Gerrard.
The team is being built around him.
How do you sort out a team to give him the most oppurtunity to affect a game?
You play a 4-3-3 system, with two other midfielders covering his ass. This allows him total freedom and lets him win the game.
4-4-2 is very tough to play in the modern game with great all round footballers all over the pitch like Arsenal have.

redspider

ButcherOfNog wrote:

The goal liverpool conceded was not down to poor goalkeeping, Reina is an aggressive keeper, he came out but didn't fall on his arse lilke most keepers, made it VERY difficult for carvalho(?), great finish tho. Josemi played quite well, much better than he had been towards the end of last season. Overall pool were by far the better side, the usual problems were there tho, Hyypia is slow, Garcia was worse than normal at giving the ball away and Zenden kept drifting infield instead of providing width. Still won 3-1 tho

Not much to say about this game, except that ....

It was not an important game, as exemplified by Carragher's lack of celebration afterwards.
Benitez selected a very poor formation, and nearly seemed intent on Liverpool losing the match with his sub selection
Liverpool's (Cisse's) goals were fortunate, the 1st one could have been easily cleared by the defender, the second one should have been headed clear by the defender, and the Garcia goal, well, no marking at all and CSKA were somehow knackered

As many have pointed out on this thread, the poor players in that Liverpool team are as clear as can be. Zenden, should not be in the 1st 11. Finnan should play at right back, no need for Josemi. Cisse is just not good enough. Neither is Morientes. Garcia, loses the ball too much, its even obvious to George Hamilton. He needs to buck up, which perhaps he can, or ship out. Hyppia, too slow. etc, etc, etc

We are repeating ourselves with each match and these things will come back to haunt Benitez and Liverpool at some point. Tonight was not an important match, but we are looking to get caught out with these faults.

Additionally, Hamann, does not seem so comfortable this year. Alonso needs Gerrard on the field and perhaps Hamann also. I think the midfield is being messed up majorly by Zenden. Reina was partly at fault for the Moscow goal. He was too far out. He seems good at other times though so for now gets a good benefit of the doubt, still early days to judge him. Sissoko did ok.

No bright points really in winning this "trophy" really, although the only silver in the cloud is that winning the trophy may be worth a small bit of money. But the Super-Cup, imo, is as meaningless as the Community Shield.

redspider

Lex Luthor

My 2c

Zenden - bring back Smicer :mad:
Garcia - bring back Nunez :mad:
Cisse - bring back Heskey :mad:
Morientes - brink back Meijer :mad: :mad: :mad:

There was no point in keeping Alonso on....there was no width so it was pointless keeping him there...Sissoko has the legs in the end when it mattered to chase & run.

Still a lot to do..can't see them closing the gap on Chelsea, Manu & Ars...will be lucky to get 4th this year....although Spurs are my fave choice at this moment.

jubbly

Good to see Liverpool pick up the super cup but Im not really convinced about this Liverpool team. Fair enough they won the Champions League and Super Cup but they didnt exactly win it like a team on top form in their own league does. There are so many average players there and Benitez needs to do a lot of surgery still. Liverpool will do well to get fourth spot in the EPL.

Jivin Turkey

The negativity surrounding Liverpool by some of its fans still amazes me.

This season Liverpool have played 9 competitive games (W7 D1 L1 F18 A4). The have controlled every single one of those games. Including the last five which have been against good opposition.

Benetiz is building a team from the back. He is sorting the defensive side of things out before working on the attack. This is one of the most fundamental things to do to any team if you want to make them champions. For a prime example we only need to look back a single year to JM putting his stamp on Chelsea. It was months before they started scoring goals.

Last night CSKA Moscow didn't even get into our half for half an hour! The only reason they ended up getting that chance, was not because of a lack of pace from Hyypia, it was because Riise, who has not played regularly at full back for about 18 months, played him onside. We had the rest of the entire game bar a few punts by them upfield to attempt the odd counter.

It was the same in the Sunderland and Middlesboro match, and the same against CSKA Sofia. Liverpool totally controlled these games but just lacked a bit of cutting edge. It may not be pretty to watch, but Ill take that if it is ultimately going to win the league.

Now I'm not doubting that some of Liverpools players are punching below their weight, and yes, that is disappointing, particularly from some proven world class players like Morientes.

A good point was made last night though about Morientes, it's too early to judge him. It was very very difficult for him to get into the swing of things because of his ineligibility for the CL games, the big games, the games that the whole team was working towards. Frequently he found himself in a side without a couple of the first XI who were being rested ahead of a big midweek game. This season he has no excuses and has to deliver, but after 6 games it's a bit early to be writing him off.

Same goes for Zenden. Now I was one that was looking forward to his arrival, and I'm not going to lie and say I'm not somewhat disappointed, but he has only played five games for gods sake! Give him time to settle.

Cisse as well, Im not a huge fan of, but look at his record this year, six goals in five starts!

The team is progressing, the results are there to see, it might not be pretty to watch, it might be chronically lacking in width at times, but I look forward to this year with optimism, particularly because there will be two new faces at the club on Wednesday.

PHB

Morientes isn't really a 20 goal a season striker, and only has been once or twice in his life.
But what he is is a big game player.
If you desperately need a goal, theres a good chance he'll get it for you.
Thats why his international record is so good, its because the next time Liverpool are playing Chelsea and need to beat them to get into the knockout stages of the CL, Morientes gets a chance in the box, he'll probably put it away.

Drag00n79

whiskeyman wrote:

Back pages tomorrow...

"Cisse - G'Owen nowhere!"

Fair play to the Pool

Actually, the Mirror has "YOU'RE STILL G-OWEN, DJIB".

LFCFan

ButcherOfNog wrote:

Josemi played quite well, much better than he had been towards the end of last season.

You're having a laugh aren't you? He was by far the worst player on the pitch. He shoudn't be allowed near the first team again. A liability he is.

evad_lhorg

Lex Luthor wrote:

My 2c

Zenden - bring back Smicer :mad:
Garcia - bring back Nunez :mad:
Cisse - bring back Heskey :mad:
Morientes - brink back Meijer :mad: :mad: :mad:

There was no point in keeping Alonso on....there was no width so it was pointless keeping him there...Sissoko has the legs in the end when it mattered to chase & run.

Still a lot to do..can't see them closing the gap on Chelsea, Manu & Ars...will be lucky to get 4th this year....although Spurs are my fave choice at this moment.

bring back heskey?!! ha

more like bring back Rush and Fowler!

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Morientes isn't really a 20 goal a season striker, and only has been once or twice in his life.

The main problem with that though is he spent almost eight years at RM and was only a regular fixture there for about three of them. His record when he has had an extended run in the team is excellent, his pre-Madrid record is excellent, and his record at Monaco was excellent.

His goals/games record for his career is about 1/2.

LFCFan wrote:

You're having a laugh aren't you? He was by far the worst player on the pitch. He shoudn't be allowed near the first team again. A liability he is.

Are you having a laugh? In the first half he made some vital challenges, nothing got past him.

In the second half he got exposed a bit by Carvalho, who was the best player one the pitch on the night IMO, but only because he got no protection as Liverpool were pushing on for a goal.