Rip off Republic - Monday 29th

lomb

bmoferrall wrote:

...Michael O'Leary figure we were given Mary O'Rouke.
Get rid of the back-slappers, hucksters, chancers, wasters and sheisters.
Let's have some professionals with proper real-world experience and qualifications to take charge of the public purse before the money runs out.

if michael o leary isnt a schister i dont know who is :rolleyes:
and everyone knows what the irish are like as a race, this is a FAR more corrupt country than the uk due to the personaility of irish people and the lack of any real laws.i dont see charley haughey in jail do u?he was more bent than a colubian drug baron and he has suffered in no way other than financial. what precedent does that set for politicians on the take.
what amazes me was how little the politicians took to get the job done, like we are talking only 50grand say and ud get planning for 1000 houses or a toll bridge :rolleyes: if they were going to be on the take they should of had the sense to take million for it not a very clever bunch...
i knew a drug company boss of a large pharmaceutical company (on the board) and he told me everywhere he went he had to bribe the politicians to get government contracts, they had a secret pool that they used to make payouts out of. he said bribes were needed everywhere except the UK!

LFCFan

bmoferrall wrote:

What bothers me most is that we are piddling away in what will probably in hindsight be seen as a golden era for our economy.
The Gov. is absolutely flush with our money and its being squandered on a frightening scale; the budget and time overruns on transport projects are just one sorry example.
With the cash that's been drained from motorists we should have transport infrastructure that's the envy of Europe and the World - quite the opposite is true.

At a time when this country needed people with vision and integrity the likes of P Flynn, L Lawlor and G Redmond had their grubby paws on our hard-earned cash.
At a time when we needed a Michael O'Leary figure we were given Mary O'Rouke.
Get rid of the back-slappers, hucksters, chancers, wasters and sheisters.
Let's have some professionals with proper real-world experience and qualifications to take charge of the public purse before the money runs out.

The 1 greatest problem I see is that Politicians are the worst type of people to be running a country! Politics gets in the way. Sometimes to easiest solution is the 1 that's the most obvious but politicians don't know how to do the obvious. They have to introduce confusion and red tape. They need to keep the illusion that their job is extremely difficult and only they can do it. There are much better people out there that would make Ireland an amazing country but unfortunatly, they are not politicians!

Imposter

LFCFan wrote:

The 1 greatest problem I see is that Politicians are the worst type of people to be running a country! Politics gets in the way. Sometimes to easiest solution is the 1 that's the most obvious but politicians don't know how to do the obvious. They have to introduce confusion and red tape. They need to keep the illusion that their job is extremely difficult and only they can do it. There are much better people out there that would make Ireland an amazing country but unfortunatly, they are not politicians!

That's civil servants. Have you not seen Yes minister?

LFCFan

lomb wrote:

the road cost overruns were caused partially by rising land prices as the government had to commpesate landowners under compulsory purchase.
the problem is the government is generous here in spain they just take people land apparantly.

It's very easy to spend someone else money. The problem with successive governments is there serious lack of vision. They build for now and ignore the future. Why would they want to makes plans for something when they could be voted out in the next election? They are not doing what's best for the country, only what's best to keep them in a job. The sad thing is, despite their complete lack of intelligence and forsight, they were voted back in again

bmoferrall

lomb wrote:

if michael o leary isnt a schister i dont know who is :rolleyes:

Frankly, the thought of Mary O'Rourke pawing her abacus with a cheque for a Billion Euros in front of her gives me the willies

Ann Elk

No better woman to give you a willy (except pehaps Mary Harney)

LFCFan

Imposter wrote:

That's civil servants. Have you not seen Yes minister?

yes, but who gives them their direction and if they are not doing what they are directed to do then again the politicians are not doing their job very well. Whatever way you look at it, our current politicians are about as useful as t1ts on a boar!

Macy

Stekelly wrote:

Bottom line, if VRT goes, imcome tax is going to go up, for everyone. Students, Minimum wagers, average working joes.

Indirect taxes are regressive taxes, whereas income taxes are progressive. Average working joe buys a car he pays vrt, same as a super rich fat cat - that isn't a fair tax system.

Lets not skip over the fact that VRT was probably introduced to give a tax break on income tax, mainly to the benefit of the rich no doubt. Lets also not overlook it was introduced by Bertie Ahern, so only right he should deal with the political fall out of it being removed.

FF/PD are obsessed with net pay, and the electorate here rate on a par with the yanks for falling for it, as they continue to pay higher and higher indirect taxes and service charges... :rolleyes:

bmoferrall

Ann Elk wrote:

No better woman to give you a willy (except pehaps Mary Harney)

Nothing against Mary O'Rourke in particular, bless her. I could substitute any number of male pol's in her place

SparkyLarks

If average Joe buy's a new car he pay's VRT.
No VRT on Second hand cars.

Despite this huge burden of VRT new car sales rose by 19% last year.
People are willing to pay VRT at the moment. I say leave it on generate revenue and put it into helthcare ,social services, education.

murphaph

SparkyLarks wrote:

If average Joe buy's a new car he pay's VRT.
No VRT on Second hand cars.

Of course there is. It's not something you pay separately, but the cost of VRT originally paid is passed down the line. If everyone bought used cars we'd run out of usable vehicles in 15 or so years!!! It'd be like Cuba

(I always bought used )

I'm not advocating the scrapping of VRT, however I think if it were scrapped the first thing that should happen is VAT be applied at 25% (the maximum the EU directive on VAT allows) on motor cars. The non-motoring taxpayer shouldn't feel any more of a pinch than is absolutely necessary.

Ann Elk

SparkyLarks wrote:

If average Joe buy's a new car he pay's VRT.
No VRT on Second hand cars.

Despite this huge burden of VRT new car sales rose by 19% last year.
People are willing to pay VRT at the moment. I say leave it on generate revenue and put it into helthcare ,social services, education.

That would be fine SparkyLarks if the money actually had a snowballs chance in hell of going to those areas - however i have a sneaking suspicion that it may end up elsewhere (like being used to pay the VRT on our politicans cars??)

SparkyLarks

Ann Elk wrote:

That would be fine SparkyLarks if the money actually had a snowballs chance in hell of going to those areas - however i have a sneaking suspicion that it may end up elsewhere (like being used to pay the VRT on our politicans cars??)

Agreed, but without it our income tax would end up elsewhere.
If we abolish VRT Income taxes will increase.

imagine if a political party had that on their manifesto. they wouldn;t get into power

Ernie Ball

Two words: property tax.

Ann Elk

SparkyLarks wrote:

Agreed, but without it our income tax would end up elsewhere.
If we abolish VRT Income taxes will increase.

imagine if a political party had that on their manifesto. they wouldn;t get into power

I see your point but I think you miss the gist of my argument above - the issue of tax designation is really a moot one, the charge is illegal and should be abolished. If we are unhappy with the governments soulution to the whole in the exchequer, we exercise our democratic right and vote them out!

Pumping money into our healthcare system is a self defeating approach, as you increase helthcare spending, average lifespans etc increase and so does the need for care for more elderly citizens - healthcare systems as we know them eat money at an exponential rate.

I'm not suggesting that we abolish healthcare mind, but rather that it needs a radical overhaul from head to toe. And given the current regimes current trend of privatising our healthcare system by stealth - i think that may be a long way off in the future.

stevenmu

Ann Elk wrote:

the charge is illegal and should be abolished.

Unfortunatly there is actually an excemption/exception on the EUs books allowing Ireland (and a few others) charge VRT. IIRC it's the only legislation in the EU put in at Irelands request.

I agree it's wrong in principle though. Expecting motorists to pay extra to fund non-motoring issues (even though we all pay our regular taxes like everyone else already) is just plain non-sensical. It's like expecting non-parents to pay for the child care of others.

prospect

stevenmu wrote:

I agree it's wrong in principle though. Expecting motorists to pay extra to fund non-motoring issues (even though we all pay our regular taxes like everyone else already) is just plain non-sensical. It's like expecting non-parents to pay for the child care of others.

Exactly, why is the extra tax onus on motorists?

Why not lump an extra 50% HT (holiday tax)
Or maybe a 100% BST (Beauty Salon Tax)
While we are at it a 75% FCT (Fitness Club Tax)
Then a 150% LGT (Leather Goods Tax)
These are all luxuries, why don't people who avail of these have to shoulder more of the €1Billion VRT generates.

I don't consider my car a luxury, it is a necessity. I don't consider myself rich cause I own a car, I need it. Why do I have to pay this extra tax on motoring? (I already pay import tax on fuel, vat on fuel, road tax, tax on car purchase, vat on servicing and parts, tax on insurance costs etc).

I wouldn't mind if we had high standards of roads, and good public transportation and decent traffic management, but we are very very far away from that.

Seth Brundle

Motorists pay a high rate of taxation purely because the various Ministers for Finance know that when announcing these new tax rates nobody will protest.
Irish people are known for being physically unable to protest efficiently.

MercMad

As I see it the Irish Motorist contributes the most in terms of tax, yet we get a raw deal and in fact the Gov. treat us like crap ! Why are they not trying to make the country more c ar friendly since they gain so much ! If things were better for us we'd probably buy even mpore new cars !!

Why do they cater so much for Public Transport issues ?? THIS is where they need to earn more tax. TAX the cost of Bus and Rail tickets...........go on, simply add it on like they did to the tolls !!

Surely most people over the age of 18 in this society either drive or have the use of a car and want to buy one of their own someday soon !!

Someone suggested the Revenue are trying to put the Jap importers out of business ?? This makes no sense ! The only cars that the Gov/Revenue get nothing from is the sale of a used car already IN Ireland, sold new with VRT paid ! The Japanese import market makes them very happy as the get their pound of flesh here aswell ! bThey would be delighted if all used cars had to be imported !!

As far as the over budget cintract go why is it that when you or I build a house we can get it done more or less on target both timewise and budget wise by making staged payments, yet these clown accept tenders and have no system to keep it all in check. How does it happen ? Does the contractor phone up and say "Eh can you multiply that by two please, and send a check ?? "

No, sorry, it's easy to keep these things at a realistic level, but even easier to forget about them . You award the contract and if they cant do they dont get paid. End of story !

The Government get away with it because no system is there to challenge these things as the are hapopening, and they take advantage of motorists because they know we have no unity and hence are in a weak position and wont challenge them !

Ann Elk

stevenmu wrote:

Unfortunatly there is actually an excemption/exception on the EUs books allowing Ireland (and a few others) charge VRT. IIRC it's the only legislation in the EU put in at Irelands request.

I agree it's wrong in principle though. Expecting motorists to pay extra to fund non-motoring issues (even though we all pay our regular taxes like everyone else already) is just plain non-sensical. It's like expecting non-parents to pay for the child care of others.

Check out this link - it gives the comissions run down on the standing. It seems that whilst not strictly legal, it can be tolerated for now, but they don't like it and see it as being against the spirit of the treaty - quite informative

http://europa.eu.int/comm/taxation_customs/resources/documents/com_en.pdf

MadsL

My biggest objection to the VRT is the double tax applied to imported vehicles. I bought my new car in Belfast because the robbing buggers in Dublin were unduly attached to the sticker price (this for a cash sale, drive away a demonstrator that day! - and they still wanted full list for it! Despite having a quota they were never going to reach.)

I saved about a €1000 by buying in the North, and as a good citizen went off to register it.

Two government scams;
1. VRT is applied to a new import on the full market value including VRT thereby forcing you to pay VRT twice.

2. My car (a Smart) is a 698cc. My road tax is for a 998cc car :mad: I get penalised for driving a smaller more fuel efficient car...

GloriaH

Our politicians are 'our' politicians because WE vote them in and have repeatedly voted then in over the past few years. We do this already knowing a lot of what Eddie Hobbs talks about in the programme - knowing our money is being mismanaged and misappropriated.

The problem is twofold - WE vote the same fools in continuosly because (a) at election time we seem to forget what a mess they have made of so many things, forgetfulness perhaps caused by time or perhaps because media interest lessens and shifts to other more current issues so we do the same old thing and get the same old results (2) What is the alternative - for a lot of people though we hate to admit it, it's a case of 'better the devil you know'.

Also politics is a local thing - anger, disappointment, frustration etc should all be directed at local politicians, that's the only way change will be affected at a higher level. The good old grassroots.!



We = Irish voting public

egan007

Well said Gloria - Regularly complain to your Local TD in all parties.
It's the only way to get anything done.