Newcastle sign Owen

Lemlin

The reason that Owen didn't join Liverpool was that they were not prepared to pay the same fee as Newcastle. Liverpool never had a bid accepted for him.

Yet Owen repeatedly stalled on talking to Newcastle and repeatedly spoke of his desire to join Liverpool. Despite the fact that Newcastle had a €17 million bid already accepted and Benitez wouldn't comment on the saga. Seems to me like Owen was hoping the views of people like Phil Thompson and Steven Gerrard, and many Liverpool supporters, would force Benitez to make an offer.

No he made it clear that to be ready for the World Cup he has to be playing regularly.

And Newcastle are the only team offering him this. Hence they are the last chance saloon for him.

Im not denying that Owen's would have Liverpool over Newcastle. But it wasn't a case of "he realized he was joining a sinking ship" and "no one else wanted him". Id say he was assessing what options he had, and choose what was best for his career, and his family.

Why else has he had huge reservations about joining Newcastle and stalled the deal for so long if he didn't realise he was joining a sinking ship? I'd say he was waiting for Liverpool, or even Man Utd or Arsenal, to make a move. Fact is he had one viable option: move to Newcastle. You say that its not true that no one else wanted him, where's your list of interested teams then!?

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

Yet Owen repeatedly stalled on talking to Newcastle and repeatedly spoke of his desire to join Liverpool. Despite the fact that Newcastle had a €17 million bid already accepted and Benitez wouldn't comment on the saga. Seems to me like Owen was hoping the views of people like Phil Thompson and Steven Gerrard, and many Liverpool supporters, would force Benitez to make an offer.

Seems to me that regardless of what anyone thought, Benetiz couldn't afford to pay £17M for a striker.

Lemlin wrote:

And Newcastle are the only team offering him this. Hence they are the last chance saloon for him.

What do you mean last chance saloon?

Owen would have gone to the World Cup if he stayed at Madrid.

Lemlin wrote:

Why else has he had huge reservations about joining Newcastle and stalled the deal for so long if he didn't realise he was joining a sinking ship? I'd say he was waiting for Liverpool, or even Man Utd or Arsenal, to make a move. Fact is he had one viable option: move to Newcastle. You say that its not true that no one else wanted him, where's your list of interested teams then!?

I would call taking a couple of days to sign a deal "so long". Particularly when you consider medicals have to be performed and you are in another country.

He didn't have huge reservations in joining Newcastle. He wanted to assess his options. Im not denying had Liverpool come in with an acceptable bid he would be there now. But he didnt join Newcastle out of desparation. He felt that was the best thing to do for him. He could have stayed at Madrid, he still would have gone to the World Cup.

The reason there wasn't a list of clubs he could join is because Newcastle priced him out of the market. Similar to what they tried to do with Rooney.

Newcastle are not a "sinking ship".

jonny68

shrewd bit of business from Real Madrid here making a tidy profit.Owen for me vastly overated,sure he's a great striker but not as good as people make him out to be,id imagine he'd do well with Newcastle but he's hardly what you'd call ambitious going there is he knowing that's it's extremly likely he won't win any silverware with them :rolleyes:

Pepe LeFrits

............... Owen
Luque ....... Dyer ...... Solano
............... Emre
.............. Parker
Babayaro Taylor Boumsong Carr
............... Given

Pretty good team there, nobody over 30 afaik.

Big Ears

kaids wrote:

............... Owen
Luque ....... Dyer ...... Solano
............... Emre
.............. Parker
Babayaro Taylor Boumsong Carr
............... Given

Pretty good team there, nobody over 30 afaik.

good formation , although for this season id drop Dyer and have Shearer play up alongside Owen .

Jivin Turkey

kaids wrote:

............... Owen
Luque ....... Dyer ...... Solano
............... Emre
.............. Parker
Babayaro Taylor Boumsong Carr
............... Given

Pretty good team there, nobody over 30 afaik.

Robbie Elliott, Titus Bramble, Lee Bowyer, James Milner (or did he go as a part of the Solano deal?), Amdy Faye, Shola Ameobi and of course Alan Shearer for back-up.

Sinking ship indeed.

Jivin Turkey

Big Ears wrote:

good formation , although for this season id drop Dyer and have Shearer play up alongside Owen .

Id also have Bowyer lend some more agression to the midfield, at the expense of Emre or Luque.

Lots of options there.

Pepe LeFrits

Milner to Villa on a season long loan.

Big Ears

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Id also have Bowyer lend some more agression to the midfield, at the expense of Emre or Luque.

Lots of options there.

Can always stick him onto the right-side of midfield as he always gets stuck into the midfield battle wheather he's on the wing or in the centre . I wouldn't want to drop either Luque or Emre (especially Emre) but sometimes technical skill does need to be sacrificed for a bit of grit .

Dyer/Bowyer/Solano all in contention for that right-hand side roll . At first I was unhappy Ambrose left but now he'd never play anyway so its better he's gone .

Jivin Turkey

Big Ears wrote:

Can always stick him onto the right-side of midfield as he always gets stuck into the midfield battle wheather he's on the wing or in the centre . I wouldn't want to drop either Luque or Emre (especially Emre) but sometimes technical skill does need to be sacrificed for a bit of grit .

Personally, I think the re-introduction of Solano on the right will provide a lot of creativity which would offset the loss of either Luque or Emre.

Thats the type of ball the have been missing this season. Crosses for Shearer to get his head on, its obvious from watching him this year that he has lost all of his pace.

Big Ears

I just don't think Bowyer has the quality to be a first team starter , Emre does get stuck in a bit afterall . Parker , Emre , Bowyer , Dyer , Solano , Luque , Faye , N'Zogbia , Brittan . Thats real competition for places . I don't think we'll see too much of the last two listed Milner would have been ahead of them in the pecking order had he not gone out on loan .

Its Parker , Emre , Luque and Solano for me . Parker is very sound defensively and Emre puts in a good few tackles and Nobby tracks back , the only major problem I see is Luque I can imagine him tracking back about as much as Robert .
So I say go with the extra attacking options over the defensive ones , afterall isn't it better to win 4-3 than 1-0 .

KdjaCL

Would imagine Emre or Luque not playing many away games , altho Emre plays for the Turkish national team so knows how to ummmm win matches



kdjac

Guy:Incognito

Big Ears wrote:

but sometimes technical skill does need to be sacrificed for a bit of grit . .

In a team managed by Graham Souness? surely not.

PHB

And Newcastle are the only team offering him this. Hence they are the last chance saloon for him.

Everton and Wigan both said publically they matched Newcastles offer for Owen.

evilhomer

---

Owen

---

Luque

---

Solano

---

---

Emre----Parker----Bowyer----

---

Babayaro--Taylor--Boumsong--Carr


Thats what we will be playing next year unless we buy another striker to play up front with Owen.

Seems agressive enough for me. I haven't included Dyer because i'm not sure he will ever be fit again.


This year shearer and Owen up front will be the way to play. with Shearer playing a bit behind Owen knocking on balls for him and coming into the box for crosses.

vorbis

PHB wrote:

Everton and Wigan both said publically they matched Newcastles offer for Owen.

Wigan matched an offer of 16 Million pounds !?

Big Nelly

vorbis wrote:

Wigan matched an offer of 16 Million pounds !?

Sure Wigan said they would pay 150k a week for a top class striker if he would sign!!

eirebhoy

vorbis wrote:

Wigan matched an offer of 16 Million pounds !?

A lot of people don't seem to realise that Wigan had £25m to spend in the summer. They were called the Chelsea of the Championship last season. Nobody would go to them though and the manager wanted to buy English so he says.

Lemlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemlin
Yet Owen repeatedly stalled on talking to Newcastle and repeatedly spoke of his desire to join Liverpool. Despite the fact that Newcastle had a €17 million bid already accepted and Benitez wouldn't comment on the saga. Seems to me like Owen was hoping the views of people like Phil Thompson and Steven Gerrard, and many Liverpool supporters, would force Benitez to make an offer.


Seems to me that regardless of what anyone thought, Benetiz couldn't afford to pay £17M for a striker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemlin
And Newcastle are the only team offering him this. Hence they are the last chance saloon for him.


What do you mean last chance saloon?

Owen would have gone to the World Cup if he stayed at Madrid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemlin
Why else has he had huge reservations about joining Newcastle and stalled the deal for so long if he didn't realise he was joining a sinking ship? I'd say he was waiting for Liverpool, or even Man Utd or Arsenal, to make a move. Fact is he had one viable option: move to Newcastle. You say that its not true that no one else wanted him, where's your list of interested teams then!?


I would call taking a couple of days to sign a deal "so long". Particularly when you consider medicals have to be performed and you are in another country.

He didn't have huge reservations in joining Newcastle. He wanted to assess his options. Im not denying had Liverpool come in with an acceptable bid he would be there now. But he didnt join Newcastle out of desparation. He felt that was the best thing to do for him. He could have stayed at Madrid, he still would have gone to the World Cup.

The reason there wasn't a list of clubs he could join is because Newcastle priced him out of the market. Similar to what they tried to do with Rooney.

Benitez always said he couldn't afford the 17 million but Owen still held out hoping. That's my point.

Yes, he would of went to the World Cup, but would he have played? His place is already under huge pressure from Jermain Defoe. People used to say who'd play up front with Owen, now its who'll partner Rooney.

A couple of days! Owen has been mulling it over for weeks. He even said yesterday that Alan Shearer had been on the phone to him for the last few weeks so how can you say it took him a couple of days?

Had to laugh at his comment that winning a trophy would be like winning the World Cup to Newcastle fans. In other words, he's saying that he's moving to a club who haven't won anything in donkey's years and where he expects to win feck all himself.

Everton and Wigan! You needn't say anymore. Looks like Newcastle was the lesser of about five evils!

We'll see if they're a sinking ship from the results. Despite having a good side, you still have Souness as manager. We've seen what a difference a manager can make to a team from the likes of Bryan Robson at West Brom and Stuart Pearce at Man City. Souness doesn't have their charisma or leadership qualities.

Necronomicon

Lemlin wrote:

We'll see if they're a sinking ship from the results. Despite having a good side, you still have Souness as manager. We've seen what a difference a manager can make to a team from the likes of Bryan Robson at West Brom and Stuart Pearce at Man City. Souness doesn't have their charisma or leadership qualities.

Last season after christmas they went on a very good run when they had everyone fit, was it 12 games unbeaten or something? You can't pinpoint all the bad happenings at Newcastle on Souness. As well as a lot of injuries last season, you've had petulance from players, stirring up dressing-room troubles (not to mention fighting on the pitch) etc etc. There was also the small matter of being semi-finalists in both the F.A. and UEFA Cups, which came to an end in a very, very unfortunate week.
For me, Souness has been nothing short of brilliant during the summer. He's offloaded a lot of deadwood like Robert and brought in proper, proven quality like Emre, Parker, Luque and Owen.

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

Benitez always said he couldn't afford the 17 million but Owen still held out hoping. That's my point.

Your point that I disagreed with was that no one else wanted him.

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, he would of went to the World Cup, but would he have played? His place is already under huge pressure from Jermain Defoe. People used to say who'd play up front with Owen, now its who'll partner Rooney.

Go check the latest England squad news and then come back and try and argue that.

Lemlin wrote:

A couple of days! Owen has been mulling it over for weeks. He even said yesterday that Alan Shearer had been on the phone to him for the last few weeks so how can you say it took him a couple of days?

But the official offer had only been on the table a couple of days. There is a big difference between ex-team mates trying to paint a rosy picture of somewhere and actual negotiations taking place.

Lemlin wrote:

Everton and Wigan! You needn't say anymore. Looks like Newcastle was the lesser of about five evils!

And you needn't say anymore garbage like no one else wanted him.

Lemlin wrote:

We'll see if they're a sinking ship from the results. Despite having a good side, you still have Souness as manager. We've seen what a difference a manager can make to a team from the likes of Bryan Robson at West Brom and Stuart Pearce at Man City. Souness doesn't have their charisma or leadership qualities.

A manager like Bryan Robson or Stuart Pearce? You are joking right? Do you even know their past history as managers?

Pearce deserves some slack because he was on what actually could be determined a "sinking ship", and it was his first stab at the game, but Robson is a poor manager.

Lemlin

A manager like Bryan Robson or Stuart Pearce? You are joking right? Do you even know their past history as managers?

Pearce deserves some slack because he was on what actually could be determined a "sinking ship", and it was his first stab at the game, but Robson is a poor manager.

Bryan Robson kept Brom up on a shoestring budget, would Souness have managed that?

City have lost once since Pearce took over last season, and have yet to lose this season, has Souness managed a record like that, despite spending about ten times more than Pearce and not having to sell his best player?

But the official offer had only been on the table a couple of days. There is a big difference between ex-team mates trying to paint a rosy picture of somewhere and actual negotiations taking place.

Its been the worst kept secret in the world for the last month that Newcastle were mad after Owen. I'm not saying that he won't be a success, but you can't argue that he doesn't exactly want to be there. You're trying but failing.

Go check the latest England squad news and then come back and try and argue that.

Any media I've read recently has stated that Owen's place is under threat. He wasn't exactly the flavour of the month at Euro 2004 after all.

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

Bryan Robson kept Brom up on a shoestring budget, would Souness have managed that?

Bryan Robson also sent Middlesboro down on one of the biggest budgets in pre-Abramovich Premiership history. He also got relegated at Bradford (from division one, having only been in the Premiership a few years previous).

To be fair he rode his luck last year, and ultimately they were lucky to stay up. It was one of the lowest points totals for a fourth last placed team in years.

Id suggest that you not use Bryan Robson as a comparison before you do some research.

Lemlin wrote:

City have lost once since Pearce took over last season, and have yet to lose this season, has Souness managed a record like that, despite spending about ten times more than Pearce and not having to sell his best player?

Ironically when Pearce took charge of City, Newcastle were in the middle of a run which saw them lose one in seventeen.

So to answer your question yes, Souness has managed "a record" like that, with his current team, which ended only a handful of games ago.

Lemlin wrote:

Its been the worst kept secret in the world for the last month that Newcastle were mad after Owen. I'm not saying that he won't be a success, but you can't argue that he doesn't exactly want to be there. You're trying but failing.

It was no secret that they were mad for him. I can argue that he doesn't want to be there. If he didn't he wouldn't. It may not have been his preferred choice, but it was his best choice.

Lemlin wrote:

Any media I've read recently has stated that Owen's place is under threat. He wasn't exactly the flavour of the month at Euro 2004 after all.

Well maybe you should read todays paper. Owen is unavailable for Englands next game and his place isnt even under threat.

I couldnt even make something up that would prove my point any better.

Lemlin

Have you lived under a stone for the past six months? It is continually reiterated by the English media that Owen's place is under threat from Jermain Defoe. And now they're trying out a new 4-5-1 formation with Rooney as lone striker, doesn't bode well for Owen either.

I know all about Robson's past but plenty of good managers have relegation on their CVs eg. Harry Redknapp, Gordan Strachan. Fact is Robson was the first manager to keep a team who were bottom at Christmas up. You say he relegated Boro, what about bringing them from the first division in the first place to Europe and a couple of cup competition finals.

Pearce's run is still going, is Souness'? Has Pearce spent a quarter of what Souness has? Did Souness have to sell his best player?

Bottom line is: Owen didn't want to go to Newcastle, he's had to. You can either admit to that or keep your head in the sand. I think he'll do well for them and I fancy him to knock one or two past Fulham in his first game.

He's basically using the club as a shop window. Why else would he have a clause saying he can leave after one year if a decent offer comes in? And don't say he hasn't, because if he didn't Freddy Shepard wouldn't avoid the matter at all costs like he does.

You can either accept that or keep your head stuck in the sand. Either way, I'm through discussing this matter. Its just going round in rings.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

Have you lived under a stone for the past six months? It is continually reiterated by the English media that Owen's place is under threat from Jermain Defoe. And now they're trying out a new 4-5-1 formation with Rooney as lone striker, doesn't bode well for Owen either.

As a Spurs fan (which you know... ) and a massive fan of Jermaine Defoe, I think you're read this wrong. IMO, Sven going 4-5-1 shows a lack of confidence in Defoe as a first XI striker, not a threat to Owen's place in the team. When Owen returns, he'll be first choice when fit.

Lemlin wrote:

You say he relegated Boro, what about bringing them from the first division in the first place to Europe and a couple of cup competition finals.

And I'm no fan of Sourness, but didn't he do similar with Blackburn? Only without the relegation bit, and with a cup win?

Lemlin

And I'm no fan of Sourness, but didn't he do similar with Blackburn? Only without the relegation bit, and with a cup win?

Souness inherited a much more talented team at Rovers than Robson did at Boro. Both had money to spend. Robson spent his wisely on players like Ravanelli. Souness spent his on Corrado one-goal-a-season Grabbi.

If Souness had stayed last year, Blackburn would of been relegated. Ask any Rovers supporter and they'll tell you that.

As a Spurs fan (which you know... ) and a massive fan of Jermaine Defoe, I think you're read this wrong. IMO, Sven going 4-5-1 shows a lack of confidence in Defoe as a first XI striker, not a threat to Owen's place in the team. When Owen returns, he'll be first choice when fit.

Rooney is first choice above all others when fit. It used to be talk of who would play alongside Shearer for England. Now its talk of who will play alongside Rooney. There's been talk of Owen being replaced by Defoe since Euro 2004, where he managed one goal in 4 games.

To me, the 4-5-1 shows that Sven thinks he needs to make changes since the 4-1 loss to Denmark. It also shows that he has more good midfielders to try and fit into the first 11 than he has good strikers. That discussion is for a whole different topic though.

Jivin Turkey

Thank you therecklessone for saving me some typing.

The irony of trying to glorify Robson's achievements to discredit Souness is fantastic.

Im afraid Im not the one with my head in the sand here, but Im prepared to let it die from now.

Lemlin

Souness inherited a much more talented team at Rovers than Robson did at Boro. Both had money to spend. Robson spent his wisely on players like Ravanelli. Souness spent his on Corrado one-goal-a-season Grabbi.

If Souness had stayed last year, Blackburn would of been relegated. Ask any Rovers supporter and they'll tell you that.

Is that not just showing why Robson is a better manager than Souness. I'll leave you with one last point, do you think Souness would of kept West Brom up last year like Robson did? What, with his fantastic man management skills that mean he gets the best from players?

Not a chance in hell. Souness would of went in there and fell out with player after player.

You'll see this in time. At least you seem to have accepted the point on Owen at last. You'll find out all about Souness in a few months.

That's my two cents.

Big Ears

England dropping Owen.................is it April fool's already ? .
Owen has been nothing short of prolific for England , and having Rooney as the frontman in a 4-5-1 formation is like saying they don't want to score goals .
Defoe is anything near the level of Owen either . A great striker who's getting better but not in Owen's class .

Lemlin you just seem to have a hatred for : Newcastle , Souness and Owen , and it puzzles me why .

el rabitos

I think theres a right man for every job, Bryan Robson was the right man to keep up West Brom, and IF i was chairman of a team with money grabbers (Kluivert) and general wasters/players with bad atittudes (Robert, Bellamy, Bowyer.)

....then Greame Souness would have been up near the top of my list of managers to bring in to sort out the team.

i think souness was only ever thought of and was in all honesty brought in to be a transition manager for Newcastle, i dont think the chairman or souness even thinks they have much of a chance of breaking the top 4 nevermind the top 3.

despite Liverpools failings, they're a team going upwards. i'll be suprised if souness can challenge for 4th spot, and when he fails at the end of the season to get 4th he'll get the boot

Necronomicon

el rabitos wrote:

i'll be suprised if souness can challenge for 4th spot, and when he fails at the end of the season to get 4th he'll get the boot

I know expectations at Newcastle are high, but under the current circumstances, if Souness steadied the ship and got them in contention for Europe I don't think he'd get sacked for missing out on 4th.

cerbeus

Souness is there to keep the seat warm for Shearer to take over. Once Shearer retires from playing I expect him to either be manager or made assistant manager. Souness was only a stop gap to sort out the dissent in the dressing room which was getting out of hand under Robson.

Lemlin

Lemlin you just seem to have a hatred for : Newcastle , Souness and Owen , and it puzzles me why

Souness: I despise the man. I've went through the reasons why on other threads but mainly for the state he left Blackburn in.

Owen: I'm indifferent to him. He doesn't bother me at all. Unless he scores a hat trick for Newcastle against Blackburn that is! I've nothing against the fella. I just think Newcastle paid over the odds for him and he doesn't even want to be there. At least when Chelsea pay ridiculous money for Wright Phillips or Essien, they're thrilled to be there. I do think he'll be a big success though, starting with a couple of goals against Fulham.

Newcastle: Have always been one of my favourite clubs, ever since Shearer moved and the days of Keegan. I've always shouted for them against any opposition but Blackburn, even if just to see Shearer win another medal that he so justly deserves. This season though, I'm expecting them to do terrible, thanks to Souness. And, if they do, I won't be unhappy because at least it'll be the end to his reign at the club.