Advantage Derry?

gimmick

After Cork Citys dreadful 0-0 cup draw at home to Finn Harps last night, Im afraid to say that its looking like its Derrys league to throw away.

Now, dont get me wrong, and dont suggest that Im having a canary over one poor result, but the fact of the matter is this. We have scored 4 goals in our last 6 games, one of which was a didgy penalty. We were playing against a shockingly poor Harps team last night, and barely troubled them in front of goal, despite having 70% of possesion, and about 20 attempts on goal.

Derry on the other hand, are scoring freely from all over the pitch, and have their tails high. They are attacking on 3 fronts, League, FAI Cup, and League Cup, and dont seem to be letting up on any.

There is also the fixture congestion which is going to happen, with the replay this saturday (the league game has been postponed), if Derry win this weekend, they go level on points, which will give a major psychological edge to them. There is also postponemnts against Longford away and UCD at home.

The European adventure is great for City, no doubt. It gains experience and is a money spinner, but ultimately will probably cost CCFC the first league win since 93.

Illkillya

gimmick wrote:

After Cork Citys dreadful 0-0 cup draw at home to Finn Harps last night, Im afraid to say that its looking like its Derrys league to throw away.

Now, dont get me wrong, and dont suggest that Im having a canary over one poor result, but the fact of the matter is this. We have scored 4 goals in our last 6 games, one of which was a didgy penalty. We were playing against a shockingly poor Harps team last night, and barely troubled them in front of goal, despite having 70% of possesion, and about 20 attempts on goal.

Derry on the other hand, are scoring freely from all over the pitch, and have their tails high. They are attacking on 3 fronts, League, FAI Cup, and League Cup, and dont seem to be letting up on any.

There is also the fixture congestion which is going to happen, with the replay this saturday (the league game has been postponed), if Derry win this weekend, they go level on points, which will give a major psychological edge to them. There is also postponemnts against Longford away and UCD at home.

The European adventure is great for City, no doubt. It gains experience and is a money spinner, but ultimately will probably cost CCFC the first league win since 93.

The advantage is still with Cork City, 3 points clear at the top confirms that. There is a fight between two at the top of the table, and I hate when people dramatise it by saying "the title belongs to X and its theirs to throw away". You can only say that with the likes of Chelsea in the premiership last season who were so many points clear and still playing very well that it looked almost impossible for them to lose it.

Cork City on the other hand, are still playing extremely well in terms of possession. I often wonder where the goals will come, mostly due to the lack of aerial ability up front imo - against most teams, we are incapable of crossing the ball in from the wing and getting a head to it, or scoring from a corner "the simple way".

gimmick, I often notice that you expect much less of City than they deliver, and you often predict them to lose when they will win. I am the same, I always expect them to fall at the next hurdle, and I also believe that Derry City will win the league this season. However, despite the fact that they are scoring freely and City are not, this is cynical view. Our European campaign has not impacted negatively on our home form at all this season imo - its true that lately the spark has been missing in the final third of the pitch and 3 points are harder to come by, but this is also the case in Europe - even with Fenn and Kearney playing at their best, and plenty of creativity from Gamble / O'Callaghan / Murphy; we have no direct route to goal.

It shows how spoiled we have become this season that we consider this a slump for city - an away loss to the 2nd place team and a scoreless draw at home in the cup? Look what we have bounced back from in the past, including last season when we had some extremely bad runs and recovered to challenge for the title on the last day. And when you consider that Derry are still very fallible, as Bray and other sides have shown in recent weeks, the advantage is still with City - we will just have to wait and see what happens.

Chucky the tree

best result for us against finn harps would of been a lose.


the fact that derry are still fighting on 3 fronts will be a hinderence to then not a help. Fingers crossed they make it further in the FAI cup, throw in a few draws along the way aswell.

treefingers

there is a real goal-scoring problem at the moment.

people are saying that if john o flynn scores 1 or 2 then he will back to his best. but he has been in the team continuously for about a year injury free at this stage.

what has he got this season? - 5? thats including a hat trick against ucd. and its in a team thats top scorers in the league...

i very much doubt that we will ever see the john o'flynn of 3 years ago again. hope i'm wrong obviously.

Slash/ED

That's the problem alright. I could not help myself thinking that if Doyle was still at the club, Cork would have won by at least two clear goals in the UEFA cup. While it was a great night, that they dominated the match so much but failed to score and so with some bad luck could have thrown it away has to be a worry.

O'Flynn will never be where he was a few seasons back it seems, and a proven source of goals is needed in there. Over the winter one of Zayed or McHugh needs to come in for Cork I think, it's the one area they're lacking atm. But I still think they'll win the league this year, just can see Derry dropping points more than Cork.

KdjaCL

Derry score more because they throw players forward, they are not great at the back Cork keep a solid chape about them at all times.

But it does go back to Doyle , you sold your top scorer and never replaced him. In the windows Derry went and signed 4 players all attackers

And Mc Court being one of them isnt a bad signing.

I just hope it goes to the last day, as if both can still win it either will be deserved champions.


kdjac

applehunter

Zayed appears to have gone to the glamour of the Norway league.

So, that probably rules him out. I am still hopefull with John O'Flynn. He still makes excellent runs and is a classy player.

Will we ever see the O'Flynn of 2/3 years ago is still in doubt.

He was some player when he arrived first. Anybody remember the goal he got against Drogheda in front of the shed. He swivelled and curled a left footer into the top left hand corner.

And then he had to get that injury in the morgue that is Belfield.

eirebhoy

applehunter wrote:

Zayed appears to have gone to the glamour of the Norway league.

Aalesund paid €50k for an 8 week loan. To think that Doyle and Murphy were sold for €100k...

applehunter

We were raped allright. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Doyle could be the biggest bargain since Henrik Larsson or Ole Gunner Solskjaer. He played two matches so far and in each he has been the MOTM. Coppell will probably take all the credit for it too.

Bray will struggle now with Zayed gone. Himself and Georgesco were looking good together and all. Maybe they think that Georgeco can get them the goals.

Slash/ED

applehunter wrote:

He was some player when he arrived first. Anybody remember the goal he got against Drogheda in front of the shed. He swivelled and curled a left footer into the top left hand corner.

Goal of the season iirc. A stunner.

Zayed is only on loan. Surely he would prefer Cork and, if they make it, the champions league to bottom of the table in Norway. So when the window opens up Cork could still get him.

MrJoeSoap

I think Derry still have the momentum, and even though they are still competing in three domestic competitions, none have the pressure or potential financial reward of Corks extra-curricular activities! Judging solely by the performances at Tolka Park this season, I'm going to go with Derry. Pat McCourt is the scoop of the season and his performances along with the key Derry players like Farren, Brennan, Martyn and Doherty will be crucial in the run-in.

Cork are definitely strong enough to hold off the challenge if they play to their full potential. Doing that, however, might be difficult, because of the distraction of Europe and all its charms.

Of course, the UEFA Cup group stages would be a beyond amazing achievement, maybe not a consolation for losing the league (should that happen), but not a bad runner-up prize at the same time!

bohsman

Two of the biggest bottlers in Irish football - Kenny and Richardson one of thems got to win it, Cork are by far the better team so Derry will probably win

Slash/ED

I'd hardly call Kenny a bottler, he just lost it at the end with Bohs. Doesn't make him a bottler.

bohsman

Not only at the end, he completely bottled the cup final we lost to Longford (I think it was) changing tactics for the final, he switched Harkin and Morro from centre to wing for that match because Morro had had a good game there against Kilkenny or someone the week before, basically whenever the pressure was on there was sure to be some strange tweak to the system,

That said he does have the ability to be a good manager he just cant be trusted with money, so our board and Kenny was a match from hell, the board mustve known they would sack him if we got knocked out of europe yet they still let him sign Foley as a going away present 2 days before the match

Bateman

bohsman wrote:

Not only at the end, he completely bottled the cup final we lost to Longford (I think it was) changing tactics for the final, he switched Harkin and Morro from centre to wing for that match because Morro had had a good game there against Kilkenny or someone the week before, basically whenever the pressure was on there was sure to be some strange tweak to the system,

That said he does have the ability to be a good manager he just cant be trusted with money, so our board and Kenny was a match from hell, the board mustve known they would sack him if we got knocked out of europe yet they still let him sign Foley as a going away present 2 days before the match

We beat Longford in the Cup final of 2001, we lost to Dundalk in 2002, if that's what you are thinking of. :rolleyes: Kenny's main fault towards the end of that season was dropping Derek Coughlan, when he was clearly our best centre-half, and could do the old-fashioned centre-half job that no-one else seemed capable of doing. I don't think Kenny is a bottler, I just think that his strength is bringing an unfancied team to new heights, but then he fails to handle the pressure of being at the top and trying to stay there. But maybe he's learned from his time at Bohs, he definitely should have learned from the dreadful UEFA Cup result that unltimately cost him his job. :mad:

Back on-topic, I still think Cork will do it. They haven't made things easy for themselves with the 0-0 against Harps in the cup, but another game won't kill them, and Derry have already shown this season that there's no shame to going up there and losing to them. As has been said though, momentum is very important in football, and although at the moment it would seem to be with Derry, Derry seem to have drawn a bit of a bogey in the cup. If Rovers beat them (and they've already beat them in the Brandywell this season) then it will knock Derry back a bit, and the pressure will mount for the league games.

bohsman

Bateman wrote:

We beat Longford in the Cup final of 2001, we lost to Dundalk in 2002, if that's what you are thinking of. :rolleyes: Kenny's main fault towards the end of that season was dropping Derek Coughlan, when he was clearly our best centre-half, and could do the old-fashioned centre-half job that no-one else seemed capable of doing. I don't think Kenny is a bottler, I just think that his strength is bringing an unfancied team to new heights, but then he fails to handle the pressure of being at the top and trying to stay there. But maybe he's learned from his time at Bohs, he definitely should have learned from the dreadful UEFA Cup result that unltimately cost him his job. :mad:

Back on-topic, I still think Cork will do it. They haven't made things easy for themselves with the 0-0 against Harps in the cup, but another game won't kill them, and Derry have already shown this season that there's no shame to going up there and losing to them. As has been said though, momentum is very important in football, and although at the moment it would seem to be with Derry, Derry seem to have drawn a bit of a bogey in the cup. If Rovers beat them (and they've already beat them in the Brandywell this season) then it will knock Derry back a bit, and the pressure will mount for the league games.

Yea for some reason I tought we played Longford 2 years in a row, both midland nobodies, btw did you take a bus from Bilbao to Seville a couple of years ago, I took one from Barcelona...

Cork should win it but it would be sweet if Cork bottled it and Rico does have a track record

I dont really want to spend a year listening to Corkonians going on about how theyre champions baii

Bateman

The sleepy bus.

I'd much prefer Cork to win it than Derry, as the Dublin media will just ignore Cork, so unless you buy the Examiner, hopefully the noise from the already arrogant Corkonians wouldn't be too bad. The idea of Kenny winning it sickens me more than Rico...

MrJoeSoap

bohsman wrote:

both midland nobodies

Dundalk midland? Like Dublin midland?

gimmick

Bateman wrote:

the already arrogant Corkonians wouldn't be too bad.

Thanks, i think!

We beat Longford in the Cup final of 2001, we lost to Dundalk in 2002, if that's what you are thinking of.

Didnt Longford beat Bohs in the League Cup final last year? Thats what I thought he was on about.

KdjaCL

bohsman wrote:

Two of the biggest bottlers in Irish football - Kenny and Richardson one of thems got to win it, Cork are by far the better team so Derry will probably win

LOL didnt he win you a league for the 1st time in while?

Bohs fans bitter....never.


kdjac

20 Times 20 Times

Bateman wrote:

we lost to Dundalk in 2002,

sorry just felt the need to bring this up again , cmon garry haylock and your €1800 a week wage

worth it for that match :rolleyes:

bohsman

KdjaC wrote:

LOL didnt he win you a league for the 1st time in while?

Bohs fans bitter....never.


kdjac

No, Roddy won us the league for the first time in a while...
Kenny if given half a chance will do for Derrys finances what Dolan did for Pats

20 Times 20 Times

There is so many negative vibes surrounding dolan on these threads IMO , i can honestly say that i would love to see the man managing my team (dundalk fc) i think he is a great manager , who loves his eircom league football would bring a wealth of knowledge with him and as far as i can see any team managed by him moves forward in the right direction , cork city team managed by richardson is dolans team lads just that *ahem* scum damo came in and finished it off , dolan will be the next manager of drogehda me thinks doolin is just keeping his two seats in the dugout warm for him, thats another thing drogheda are in a bad state at the moment anyone else agreee if they dont make europe how on earth they going to pay the wages , some big money players in there , not a job i would like to walk into , but hell if anyone can work magic i think its dolan he gets the thumbs up from me

*now me waits quietly down here to be flamed*

bohsman

Yes Dolan is a good manager, he just shouldnt be allowed to spend money - could be a problem if he goes to moneybags drogheda. Is there not a deal with the money people in Drogheda that the wages are paid till the end of 2006 and then the plug is being pulled, seem to remember reading something like that, anyway the Drogs v Bohs game is going to be massive for both clubs

20 Times 20 Times

bohsman wrote:

Yes Dolan is a good manager, he just shouldnt be allowed to spend money - could be a problem if he goes to moneybags drogheda. Is there not a deal with the money people in Drogheda that the wages are paid till the end of 2006 and then the plug is being pulled, seem to remember reading something like that, anyway the Drogs v Bohs game is going to be massive for both clubs

and i really hope bohs beat them and destroy any ambitions of european football , this is turn will see drogheda in SERIOUS finicial hardship , here is hoping

gimmick

Sarge wrote:

cork city team managed by richardson is dolans team lads just that *ahem* scum damo came in and finished it off

Common misconception. If anything its Lennoxs team, and Dolan cannot claim to say 'its my team'. Lets look at Citys first team squad shall we, and who signed them -

Mick Devine - Derek Mountfield
Neale Horgan - youth team
Dan Murray - Liam Murphy
Alan Bennet - Youth
Danny Murphy - Dolan (Danny wrote a letter to many clubs in Ireland and UK. So Dolan didnt find him as he will try have you believe.

Kearney - Dolan (though he didnt want to sign for City first day. he wanted to sign for Bohs)
Gamble - Dolan (arguable he would have returned to City no matter who was manager)
George - Liam Murphy
Roy O Donovan - Dolan

John O Flynn - Liam Murphy
Neale Fenn - Dolan

Colin O Brien - Dave Barry
Greg O Halloran - Dave Barry
McNulty - Liam Murphy
Denis Behan - Liam Murphy
Derek Coughlan - Rico
Bruton - Rico

Now, thats hardly Dolan team is it. Okay, credit where its due, he brought a level of professionalism to Cork City never seen before, and Rico is reaping the benefits of this.

But answer me this, if this is Dolans team, why did he never have the team top of the league?

Also, in his tenure, how many times did he play Shels, and how many times did he beat tem. Answer played 9, drew 3, lost 6.

As for Rico Vs Shels, played 4, won 3, lost one.

Dolans record in the FAI cup with city - played 2, lost 2

Ricos - played 3, drew 2 (:( ), lost 0.

Players Dolan fell out with - 5
Players Rico has fallen out with - 1 (and thats resolved now).

CCFC is not Dolans team. He helped it along, but couldnt prepare a finished article. It seems Rico has.

20 Times 20 Times

Yeah i accept your point dont get me wrong but what im saying is dolan put all the pieces in place , By raising the standard of cork city he sold cork city to many players by going full time and i beleive that it was dolan that persuaded the cork city board in packing this plan , if *scum* rico had of gone down before dolan would youi guys be where you are now

answer

NO!

gimmick

^ Yes, in fact we may be a step further ahead, simply because Dolans fears Shels, that is the main difference between Rico and Dolan. Dolans inability to veat Shels in 9 attempts was his biggest, if not only, failure. Rico hasnt had such problems.

Both are very professional managers, both know the Irish football scene extremely well, both are 'larger than life' (no pun intended :mad: ) characters. Im glad CCFC have had the good fortune to have both involved.

Sure Dolan bought the ingredients (arguably), but its taken Rico to bake the cake. We'll see yet has he the ability to put the icing on it.

btw, why are you call Rico scum?

20 Times 20 Times

I have no time for rico at all he is scum and shouted abuse at me and my nephew on the side line one day , i was shocked at this , now in fairness there was a element of abuse been shouted at him but to turn around where there was kids standing and speak the way he did was very appauling and will always be remembered in this way by me , also the shamrock rovers conenction

KdjaCL

Cork fans are mental, Dolan put that team together got the fans behind the team and now Rico reaping the rewards.

Put Simply Cork were one game away from winning it last season and at the start of the season regardless of who was manager Cork fans felt they had a good chance of winning the league, why because Dolan did a good job....

kdjac

gimmick

^ I never said Dolan didnt do a good job, all Im saying is that Rico is doing a far better job.

KdjaCL

gimmick wrote:

^ I never said Dolan didnt do a good job, all Im saying is that Rico is doing a far better job.

With the team Dolan built are you better of worse off points wise now than at same stage last season?


kdjac

gimmick

:rolleyes: Sure didnt Dolan build the team which Pats are struggling with at the moment?

As regards points count, I dont know. Propbably, but thats a moot point anyway as its a 12 team league this season. One way or tother, City are top this time this season, and were not this time last season. In fact, City were never top for any sustained period while Dolan was in charge, apart from a week in April 2003 after 3 games.

KdjaCL

gimmick wrote:

:rolleyes: Sure didnt Dolan build the team which Pats are struggling with at the moment?

Nope Dolan won 2 titles with the sides he built at Pats, our missing payment for winning the 2001/2 title went to Shels thus causing a financial problem which led to the breakup of the team, the one thats leaving now (only 2 left, the best ones) is Eamonn Collins team, McDonnell has brought in 9 players since he came in.

Doesnt stop the fact he won 2 titles with teams he built. Thats 2 more than Rico.

kdjac

20 Times 20 Times

i think Gimmick has trouble admiting when he is wrong , rico is getting all the benefits of a team that was laid down all ready for him

gimmick

gimmick wrote:

Both are very professional managers, both know the Irish football scene extremely well, both are 'larger than life' (no pun intended :mad: ) characters. Im glad CCFC have had the good fortune to have both involved.

As you can see there, I appreciate what Dolan did for the club.

gimmick wrote:

Sure Dolan bought the ingredients (arguably), but its taken Rico to bake the cake. We'll see yet has he the ability to put the icing on it.

And again. Ill ask both Sarge and KDJAC, how many times did ye watch City under Dolan, and how many times under Rico? The latter has City playing with more purpose, better football, and in general achieving better results.

Can ye not even take into consideration that Rico is taking City to a level Dolan was probably not going to do?

Sarge wrote:

i think Gimmick has trouble admiting when he is wrong , rico is getting all the benefits of a team that was laid down all ready for him

Now I know ye are trying to wind me up

20 Times 20 Times

gimmick wrote:

Can ye not even take into consideration that Rico is taking City to a level Dolan was probably not going to do?

Now we will never know