Off-topic posts.

Flukey

I was typing up a post, in a thread which was on the particular topic. While I was doing so it was locked, so my post was lost when I tried posting it. It was still open when I started typing it. I lost what was a good post on the main subject matter of the thread. The thread was locked because there had been some off-topic posting. There had been some off-topic posts, but the thread was still along the lines of the original topic.

Threads go off-topic and evolve. That is the nature of threads on any discussion board and the nature of general debate and conversation. If we were all sitting in a room discussing any issue the conversation would naturally evolve seamlessly into many areas. Here we can only have conversations through the keyboard in front of us, because we can't all meet in the one place. Should threads really be closed while they are still very alive as demonstrated by the fact people are posting in them, even if they have varied a little off the original topic? In this case my post would have brought it very much back on topic, but even if it didn't, shouldn't the thread be let go on? It was still a lively and interesting discussion.

I know it is in the charters, but is it really wrong for threads to go off topic and evolve, which is exactly what happens in real conversation? Isn't that what we are trying to mirror here? Even when threads do go off topic it is usually out of something that has been said. It is rare that someone comes in and posts something that has absolutely no connection whatsoever to what has gone before. The connection may be loose, but it is still usually out of some point that has been brought up.

We don't stop a verbal conversation when we have moved into new areas that have evolved from it. Even when they do change, conversations/threads often come back to the original topic. My lost post would have done that. Often you will see posts in threads that are responses to much earlier posts, not the one immediately before it. So, often a thread will come right back on topic, even when there are what would be regarded as off-topic posts in it.

If it began to get abusive, then it should be closed, but a discussion evolving is not a bad thing. It is a natural thing. The debate may have come to a point where it is different than where it started, sometimes because an off-topic post, but it can still be interesting. A little more flexibility should be allowed before closing threads on the basis of them having gone off-topic.

Rabies

It really depends on the board.

If a thread was locked in Politic or Humanities for off topic then that is ok. Most topics in forums like that are serious and should be taken seriously.

Forums like AH, some Education forums and maybe Games have a habit of going off topic now and again. Most threads would stay open unless they went way off topic for a page or two.

flogen

Obviously the thread you are referring to is the Dublin Media Bias one in News/Media.
In this case, the thread was a mess. At the fourth post it was jokingly mentioned that Michael Martin should be made Taoiseach, and the following 5 out of 6 posts debated his incompetence and the smoking ban issue, with no link to the main topic at all.
I told posters to get back on topic, and again the subject of the smoking ban was mentioned, albeit with a small reference to the topic at hand. Shortly afterwards you made a comment about media organisations being based in Dublin, which was fair enough, but then you began to give your opinions on the merits of Decentralisation (which has nothing to do with the media, you weren't even discussing media coverage of it). The next post was a response to your views on decentralisation.
It soon became apparent that the original topic was pointless, questions were being asked that no one could answer and things were just falling apart. I decided to lock the thread, even the OP agreed.

Now, I have no problem with a topic evolving over time, but this is not an example of such. There was no evolution, just posters suddenly picking up irrelevent points and running with them.
I don't know how on topic your would-be post was, it could have been a cracker, but the thread had already decented into rambles, I wasn't going to wait around until it got back on topic (after I had given two warnings in relation to it already).

Conversations in real life do change topic, yes. And while discussion boards are similar they are not the same. Chat rooms are more like conversations, I suppose, but there has to be some kind of structure otherwise decent topics get bogged down in pointless crap and everyone loses interest. God knows there are enough forums here for you to post about Decentralisation, the smoking ban, funghi the dolphin or whatever else you want, that's the reason why we have loads of forums and not just one called "stuff".

As an aside, "interesting" is a matter of opinion.

Flukey

It was in the Dublin Media Bias thread, in News and Media. That would fit in within the category of serious forums which you have suggested. There was some off topic posts, and admittedly I posted something off-topic, though it was in direct response to something someone else had posted. The thread still stayed on course after that. Other people put in different things too, but the thread mainly stayed on the original topic. Even when it vered off-topic there were still serious points being made. The post I was putting up was a good one and very much on the topic, so I was a little annoyed to find the thread had been locked during the time I was typing it up.

OK, if a thread goes madly off-topic then there might be a case for closing it, but it could still be a serious discussion on the new topic and as I said, the original topic often resurfaces. I don't think going off-topic, within reason, should be seen as a problem. It is the natural flow of a discussion whether verbal or online.

Gordon

The analogy comparing a thread to a conversation irl is not quite valid imo. A conversation irl will have a number of parties engaging in such conversation. Such parties may leave or enter as they see fit. The conversation (in many cases) meanders and wanes and waxes lyrically or boringly, such is the nature of conversation as they tend not to have a specific topic. Of course sometimes they do, but people don't have a sign over their head saying "XP email problem, please help" or "My conversation rules: READ ME OR BE BANNED FROM MY CONVERSATION". At most people will steer you back on to the topic if it is important.

However, to boards such as boards.ie: The people reading these "conversations" (which I don't believe that threads should be deemed as conversations btw) will be reading at differing intervals. Some people post here every week, some every minute. If a user wishes to view the thread that they have contributed to they will generally view all posts after their previous post. Such is the way that boards.ie works at least.

You know how annoying it is to read pages of waffle and off topic smalltalk when you are interested in the thread contents and have many other threads to check up on within your alloted internet time?

What's the point in having thread titles then, hell why don't we just lump all conversations into one big thread on one big forum, we could call it 'thread'. www.thread.com . Create it and they will come.

I don't think you should see threads as conversations tbh Flukey. We are not trying to mirror real conversation. I admit that some fora should be more lax and akin to such meanderings of normal thru dadaist conversation but as a general rule I'm happy that off-topicness is fairly strictly dealt with. Sometimes I think it should be clamped down upon harder but we can't all have everything.

Gone West

I like bananas
In faaaact.
I might just make me a banana smoothie right now.

Flukey

Flogen, my decentralisation point came out of the talk of things being centred on Dublin, including the media. I may not have been talking at that point about the media or the coverage of it, but it was part of the broader issue on the way things are Dublin centred. There were positive responses to that post, including from the person who started the thread, and the thread predominantly remained on topic subsequently.

It had come to the point of the coverage of the Leaving cert on TV recently and the Dublin and Cork coverage, which was very much back on the topic, and I was typing a post to that when it was locked. So I think the debate was far from over and still on topic at the time it was locked, even before my post, despite the few deviations along the way.

If threads do get bogged down and people lose interest then people will stop posting, which is fair enough. There is no real harm in that. A thread could still be left open though and as I said, a new post could re-ignite the debate again, or someone might start a new thread on it. Abusive threads or flaming or advertising or topics in bad taste etc. can merit locking, often immediately, but going off a topic in a harmless manner shouldn't lead to a thread being locked. I know decentralisation has been covered in other forums and there were one or two points in that post I made that would fit nicely in the Commuting and Transport forum. We do have forums for different subject matters, but naturally threads in one forum will meander into other areas. We shouldn't be so rigid though, to not allow that to happen.

R0ot

FuzzyLogic wrote:

I like bananas
In faaaact.
I might just make me a banana smoothie right now.

Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum

Gordon

So Flukey, you think that threads should be allowed to be slightly off topic but not too much?

flogen

Flukey wrote:

Flogen, my decentralisation point came out of the talk of things being centred on Dublin, including the media. I may not have been talking at that point about the media or the coverage of it, but it was part of the broader issue on the way things are Dublin centred. There were positive responses to that post, including from the person who started the thread, and the thread predominantly remained on topic subsequently.

It had come to the point of the coverage of the Leaving cert on TV recently and the Dublin and Cork coverage, which was very much back on the topic, and I was typing a post to that when it was locked. So I think the debate was far from over and still on topic at the time it was locked, even before my post, despite the few deviations along the way.

If threads do get bogged down and people lose interest then people will stop posting, which is fair enough. There is no real harm in that. A thread could still be left open though and as I said, a new post could re-ignite the debate again, or someone might start a new thread on it. Abusive threads or flaming or advertising or topics in bad taste etc. can merit locking, often immediately, but going off a topic in a harmless manner shouldn't lead to a thread being locked. I know decentralisation has been covered in other forums and there were one or two points in that post I made that would fit nicely in the Commuting and Transport forum. We do have forums for different subject matters, but naturally threads in one forum will meander into other areas. We shouldn't be so rigid though, to not allow that to happen.

That particular post would have been fine had you stopped after your first paragraph, all of that was valid and in response to the topic at hand. here's the post for anyone interested.
Just because you got a positive response doesn't mean it was a worthy post in that forum, just like you responding to something off topic doesn't make your post any less off topic.
I'm not sure where you saw that thread going, but I saw it had ended a long time ago. The two points made by the OP had been commented on and discussed (amongst the noise) and there was nothing more to be said. Now, had that simply been the case I would have left it open for it to dry up and drop off the front page by itself, but because it was getting increasingly messy I decided to speed up the process. It's no good saying that if a thread gets bogged down with off topic threads people will stop reading it and it will die, because it won't. People will just continue to post off topic until you're left with a spamlicious thread or one that is 100 pages long and not fit for The Cuckoo's Nest.
I'm sorry to hear that you lost your great post, but it's gone, just like that thread, so deal with it.

Lafortezza

If you are typing a long post or a long pm, always highlight the text and Ctrl-C it before you click 'Post' or 'Send', if boards has crashed or your session has timed out or the thread was locked or for whatever reason, you still have the text of your post saved and can Ctrl-V it into Notepad to save it for posting at a later date.