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Vegetarians!!

Degsy

A poll from the World Wildlife Fund has shown that 80% of the worlds tropical rainforests are being cleared to provide arable land for the growing of SOYA!This disgusting trend is as a direct result of the increase of numbers of 'vegetarians' in the developed world.Its bad enough these 'people' have to cause scenes in restaurants and eulogise to the rest of us about the immorality of eating tasty,healthy meat,they now have to destroy half the planet to pander to thier deviant desires!

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Thordon

Obvious troll

Degsy

Thordon wrote:

Obvious troll

What,do i live under a bridge and belay billiegoats?
You'll have to do better..

Tar.Aldarion

Degsy wrote:

blah blah blah,everything i believe is right,everybody is wrong but me blah SOYA blah

looking foward to the soya

Degsy

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

looking foward to the soya

blah blah blah vegetarian blah live in a tree blah blah seeking attention blah blah destroying the rainforests blah blah sell the big issue blah blah live in a squat blah!

Tar.Aldarion

the only one seeking attention here is you with your ridiculous thread.

Degsy

I was merely pointing out a salient fact,if your tofu-shrunken brain cannot deal with the immorality of the situation its hardly my fault!

Tar.Aldarion

I've never even seen tofu.Abuse is a bannable offence.

vibrant

Degsy wrote:

A poll from the World Wildlife Fund has shown that 80% of the worlds tropical rainforests are being cleared to provide arable land for the growing of SOYA!

[deletia]

Its bad enough these 'people' have to cause scenes in restaurants and eulogise....

Link? I'd love to read more about this. I did a google search but didn't come up with anything. Kind of interesting how a poll (as opposed to a survey) came up with these findings. Anyway, if you could share the link I'd be grateful.

Also ... love the use of quotation marks around the word people *ouch* :rolleyes:

Tar.Aldarion

it's just that most of us are infact cyborgs intent on destroying the rainforest my dear.
go on give us a link OP?

kawaii

http://www.panda.org/about_wwf/what_we_do/forests/publications/factsheets.cfm

There's something there about soy consumption...

don't hurt me Tar...

kawaii

Of course I still think Degsy took a very immature approach to the matter...

Doper Than U

Would also be interested in a link.. I find the vegetarian issue quite an interesting one (being a full on carnivore myself).

Doper Than U

Heh.. I just saw what I wrote and then looked at my sig. I actually should also say that I happen to love animals (and would probably consider myself a "tree-hugger" of sorts)..

Tar.Aldarion

heh,you can't hug the world with nuclear arms

i won't hurt you hawaii(although i could

)
you added to the thread and gave me something to read!

kawaii

*gasp* 'Hawaii'???

You're mad! (and welcome...)

Tar.Aldarion

damn it , was thinking about hawaii and reading an email about it when i replied sorry

kawaii

I'll nevarr 4giv j00!!1!11

Tar.Aldarion

whom taught you skanger language?

kawaii

You pick it up around here...

Attol

Did I misinterpret that link or why did I get the impression that the soy is being fed to farm animals. That is why so much soy is needed, not for vegetarians, but for farm animals that will be eaten by non vegetarians.

kawaii

LadyLotts wrote:

Did I misinterpret that link or why did I get the impression that the soy is being fed to farm animals. That is why so much soy is needed, not for vegetarians, but for farm animals that will be eaten by non vegetarians.

You are quite correct.

I only read it after I posted the link

Tar.Aldarion

you really shouldn't do that.although it was good in this case

Degsy

Nah,soya isnt fed to cattle,its used to make burgers and sausages for 'people' who think that meat isnt good enough for them.If the idea of meat i so reprehensible,why do these people insist on thier 'meat alternatives' being meat flavoured?

Doper Than U

Soya most certainly is fed to cattle. It's one of the best conditioners out there, you have to be careful not to overfeed it as the animal can put on too much condition. We use it a lot for our horses. I don't think it's the flavour of meat that is reprehensible to vegetarians, but the killing of an animal for their own gain/pleasure.

As I've said, I'm a full on carnivore, but I happen to agree with a lot of the objections made by vegetarians that animal welfare in farming and meat production today is appalling. As such, I'm a meat snob, only buying organic meat that I know is traceable. I have a great organic butcher, and yes, while it is more expensive, the difference in quality makes up for it. The pap that people call chicken that lives in the value fridge at most supermarkets is filth. If you saw the animals they came from, you wouldn't touch it, let alone eat it.

I happen to disagree with certain aspects of the vegetarian argument (especially that regarding the "soya vs cattle" issue)... hence my interest in the links for your sources, which I'd still appreciate seeing if you have them.

Degsy

I allways go one better and kill my own animals for comsumption,this is handy as i live near the zoo and within a short drive of a panda farm.The information about the rainforests isnt a link as such,it came from an article on bbc news last week about deafforestation.

Doper Than U

Yeah, I'm hoping to move out to our farm soon so I can raise my own animals for food as well... oh wait.. you were joking. Haha.. hilarious. No really, it was.

Thanks for the info though, I'll go look it up.

Tar.Aldarion

Doper Than U wrote:

I don't think it's the flavour of meat that is reprehensible to vegetarians, but the killing of an animal for their own gain/pleasure.

indeed,meat is delicious.Infact in my early years it was practically all i ate.
Degsy there are meat alternatives so people can get themselves off meat with it being as hard and because it tastes the same,there is no need for them to believe that they need to kill an animal.

Doper Than U wrote:

I happen to disagree with certain aspects of the vegetarian argument (especially that regarding the "soya vs cattle" issue)... hence my interest in the links for your sources, which I'd still appreciate seeing if you have them.

which bit do you disagree with and meh ill give a shot at talking about whatever it is although i know very little

i talk roughly about things there-->http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3194225&postcount=3 and the book is good,maybe something is explained there or whatever.

Doper Than U

I've been through this extensively on the AH forum, but the search function is disabled for some reason, so I can't find the thread. I think it was called "Vegetarians, sane or mad?".. or something like that. Anyway, this is gonna be long (sorry.. you don't have to read it if you don't want to

) :

My objections stems from the assumption that vegetarianism = no cruelty to animals, when in fact the foods eaten in vegetarian/vegan diets causes equal cruelty to millions of animals. I'm talking about the methods of farming grain, fruit and vegetables. It's not the fact that vegetarians don't eat meat, it's the dangerous assumption made by many vegetarians that it would be better for animals and the planet if we were all vegetarians.. even to the point of calling omnivores "murderers", "savages", "cruel" etc etc.. when really, the methods used in grain and veg growing are equally as cruel to animals and wildlife. Not just animals, but the environment. Now this goes for omnivores (like myself) who eat vegetables, grain and fruit. But then I'm not the one pontificating about how great I am because I don't eat animals.

Now... my main argument stems from the fact that I detest and abhor with all my being the current farming practices in the world today. Even organic farming can be severely damaging to both animals and the environment. So it's not vegetarianism I have a true "issue" with (I really don't mind what people choose to eat, or not to eat), but the misguided opinions of vegetarians and vegans who think that their food choices mean that no animals are harmed. It's simply not true. I wish it were.

For those who don't know what I mean by current farming practices, I'm talking about the 5 million pigeons killed each year in the UK by farmers trying to protect their grain (that both veggies and omni's eat). Now that's just a teeny tiny example of what goes on in farming.

One of the most damaging farming practices is the growing of grain using monoculture. Not only are millions upon millions of animals (wildlife, deer, birds, rabbits etc) killed just to protect grain, but millions upon millions of acres of wildlife habitat are destroyed to make way for this land, which is year after year completely sucked dry of any remaining nutrients. This means that chemical fertilisers and pesticides are pumped into the land year after year just so that farmers can equal the previous years crop. It completely destroys the environment. It's this that I have issues with.

Now.. I know it's not vegetarianism that causes these problems, because lord knows, meat eaters stuff their fair share of grain down their throats. But you can see why I get just a little bit p*ssed off when I get the vegetarian guilt trip. Vegetarian eating kills millions of animals by necessity and it does extensive damage to the environment, just as eating animal flesh does. If, as a vegetarian, you can justify that to yourself and go on buying the same pasta and veg day in day out, then fine, you have made your decision. But don't do it under the mistaken belief that you're somehow not hurting animals by your choice.

I expand further on the "should we eat them" in this thread (I'm Ebyss).

*And no, sadly, it is not possible to "just not kill animals" in farming. Either the pests get it, or the crop gets it. It's a sh*tty, cr*ppy system, and I hate it. It all stems from the fact that there are simply too many mouths to feed (another topic entirely). Imagine for one second if all these mouths were vegetarian? 6.5 billion vegetarians? It would destroy the planet.

Anyway, this isn't aimed at any particular vegetarian, it's just my personal opinions based on the facts I know. I'm all for sustainability. That's my "cause", you might say. I'm not here to cause offence, and certainly not here to tell people how wrong they are for choosing not to eat meat. I'm just arguing against the ignorance that allows people to think being vegetarian means you don't hurt animals.

Tar.Aldarion

''the assumption that vegetarianism = no cruelty to animals''

i know a lot of people may be under that impression but for 99% of vegetarians there are of course animals hurt,we can't live in the current system otherwise.The way i see it is,i know that animals are being hurt no matter what i do,i cannot help it but the thing is,i try.Because there are animals being hurt anyway is not a reason to just accept it and just indulge in products that are made from animals that have been killed.
Because people are killed and crime is committed that is no reason to accept it,let we all live in a flawed society where these things are rampant.i am under no impression that i am better than anybody else and i would have no right to try and give somebody a guilt trip.I don't eat meat because i believe it is wrong and i am just trying to do my part,i realise i can't do much but i would rather not eat meat or use products that hurt animals etc basically i am just trying to do as little damage as possible because there is no way in my lifetime that i can become wholely 'innocent' in the harming of animals.*Shakes fist at system*
As for your no way to sustain if everybody was vegetarian...do we sustain everybody now?how many thousand die a second because of starvation?vegetarianism is ofcourse not a cure atm for the reasons you said but much more people would be fed and we could work on ways of developing better techniques to produce crops or whatever.who says we need to have 6.5 billion straight away.how about a big portion of that,a balance, untill we can increase that safely?it would save quite a number of lives if more but not too much ppl stopped with meat because of the amount of grain and water etc that is used when getting cattle etc ready to be killed.

''*And no, sadly, it is not possible to "just not kill animals" in farming. ''
it would be incredibly difficult and at our level of technology unabtainable...i think it's just about doing as little harm as possible atm and maybe growing yourself some crops in a forrest

i disagree with your vegetarianism is unnatural thing however as our ancestors and our closest neighbours the apes are almost 100% vegetarian.the silverback being the biggest most vicious one with nice huge canines being quite vegetarian.
from the biology books i have read(i posted about it in veg forum but no search abilities!!) humans are chemically and biologically designed as herbivores. biology we are,Our hands, teeth, feet, intestinal tract...even our body chemistry is that of an herbivore.teeth is harder to grasp though,it is very hard to say they are not to be used for meat whatsoever,no proof.
Apes, or anthropoids, are distinguished from other primates by their complex brains and hence intelligence, their large size, and their lack of tails.
Human teeth are smaller and more uniform in length,as we evolve our canines are becoming less and less pronounced and even if they were not there are mammals with canines that are huge which have always been vegetarian.Canines cannot be said in this case to be either for carnivores or herbivores but given the rest of our chemistry the latter is pointed to.

anyway farming sucks!
now pick apart my post because i cant even remember what i have said by the time im on to the next point but im sure i said some wrong things and didn't address loads of points

ANarcho-Munk

This is a very revealing (and sickening) video dealing with the cruelties done to farm animals. Ignore the music, just look at the video at the bottom of the page...

WARNING: EXPLICIT AND SLIGHTLY SICKENING CONTENT

http://www.myspace.com/tokill