New Political Party??

Lambsbread

I recently heard of rumours that a prominent and wealthy businessman is
thinking of establishing a new political party, supposedly called the
Party for Economic & Social Advancement (PESA), do the readers of this
site believe there is room for another party on this small island? I
think there could well be, given the incompetence of all the political
parties! When was the last time there was an innovative decision taken
on securing Ireland's future? - smoking ban excluded! I think they sound a bit like the PDs.

Rastas

I too have heard a similar rumour in the Dail bar of all places (don't ask why I was there - something to do with free booze!) but there was some talk of a new party being set up by a wealthy Irish American. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. The system could do with a shake-up by a party that needs not to bend to party supporters (lobbyists).

dathi1

I think they sound a bit like the PDs.

Ant extra choice for the dail is a good thing no matter what part on the political spectrum. The PDs?? They've just become another Fine gael type disgruntled faction. McDowell who is now the face of the PDs harping on about the Columbia 3 when nobody outside independent newspapers could give a ****.
I would favour a new rightish nationalist party which would not bow to Brussels as much and streamline our immigration system. TBH like it or not...I think Sinn Fein will wipe out labour as a favoured Left wing party with the added advantage of a Nationlist slant. Probably the "new" irish party of the 21st century.

Board@Work

dathi1 wrote:

TBH like it or not...I think Sinn Fein will wipe out labour as a favoured Left wing party with the added advantage of a Nationlist slant. Probably the "new" irish party of the 21st century.

If that becomes true God help us!!

DublinWriter

Lambsbread wrote:

I recently heard of rumours that a prominent and wealthy businessman is thinking of establishing a new political party

Never, ever works. Remember Ross Perot? Remember Sir James Goldsmith?

Those kind of parties have a lot of success initially, but end up tearing themselves apart as their leader and founder usually views the party as 'his'.

I'd say all money on the Shinners in 2007 myself. Given the recent FF wipeout in the local elections, they're sure to clean up if they can mobilise the working-class & farmer vote in safe FF areas.

rsynnott

Rastas wrote:

wealthy Irish American.

Oh, dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

dathi1 wrote:

I think Sinn Fein will wipe out labour as a favoured Left wing party with the added advantage of a Nationlist slant. Probably the "new" irish party of the 21st century.

Exploding children notwithstanding, eh? How nice.

Time Magazine

I can't see it really working. Especially since there's such demand/hype for the next generals and there's no way a new party could get more than 1 or 2 seats. Given that the PD's are facing a right smacking in the next G.E. there're serious threats to their actual existance. I envisage a most polarised spectrum as Fine Gael take the more Christian democrat stance and FF go for the social democratic route.

I do not see Sinn Féin ever reaching more than about 12 seats. I see Labour always staying stronger than them. I think Sinn Féin's past/present will haunt them. If Fine Gael still haven't lost the Blueshirt tag, there's no way SF could become mainstream in the forseeable future.

is_that_so

DublinWriter wrote:

I'd say all money on the Shinners in 2007 myself. Given the recent FF wipeout in the local elections, they're sure to clean up if they can mobilise the working-class & farmer vote in safe FF areas.

Disagree completely here. Local elections are used for punishments of incumbents throughout Europe. FF will take the next election seriously and acknowledge the SF danger. They also have a fairly useful election machine.

SF's quality of candidate leaves an awful to be desired. It is unlikely they will be able to find them either. Their current crop of TDs are commonly seen to be the most ineffectual group in the Dail.

Also if they actually get into power and have to make some unpleasant decisions, their economics will kill them.
Irish politics revolves around the centre and we like left wing parties to be nominally so.

As regards the rumour I can't see it having any long-term effect on politics here but it would be interesting as a distraction if it came about.

DublinWriter

Angry Banana wrote:

there's no way SF could become mainstream in the forseeable future.

Never forget the lessons of history. Remember that FF were the SF of the 1920's and people said the same about them then.

The famous quote from the army chief of staff receiving Dev with an honour guard after FF won the general election of 1932 was "do we salute them or shoot them?".

FF were always crytpo left-wing, but they blew the gaffe with the PD coalition. They've lost their urban working class support big time.

Believe me, SF are about to go seriously mainstream. They won't get anything like an overall majority in 2007, but I believe they'll overtake Labour and become serious power brokers in the next Dail.

sceptre

Lambsbread wrote:

Party for Economic & Social Advancement (PESA)

Any party whose acronymic name is pronounced "piece-a" is rather ripe for suffix satire.

defiantshrimp

DublinWriter wrote:

Believe me, SF are about to go seriously mainstream. They won't get anything like an overall majority in 2007, but I believe they'll overtake Labour and become serious power brokers in the next Dail.

If SF get into the government coalition, I'm emigrating! But I agree. Sadly many people seem to be blind to the fact that they are extremists and have dubious links with the IRA.

gom

I think this rumour is probably a false one or else its some nut job Irish-American that will fall flat on his face as he has no experience of politics in Ireland on a practical level. If however, he(making an assumption on the vanity of the male psychy here) has people with experience and successes in Irish politics involved(esp. at the local level) he might just get somewhere.

If this PESA party lives up to its agenda unlike the PDs and is a Liberial party much like the FDP in Germany. The PDs are an authoritarian party on social issues and don't allow free-market economics to take place on a fair competitive level favouring industrial giants over competition policy. People tought that the PDs would bring a new opportunity to Irish politics but just turned out to be a splinter of the McCreevy/Brennan FF end and the Right-Wing of the PDs.

If PESA works I can see the PDs merging with FG(if they'll have them). Lets hope that something strange happens and Labuor leads the next government

themurt

Is there any substance to the PESA rumours? How would you find out more about them (assuming it's a "them" not a "him/her")?

FTA69

SF's quality of candidate leaves an awful to be desired. It is unlikely they will be able to find them either. Their current crop of TDs are commonly seen to be the most ineffectual group in the Dail.

What utter nonsense, all 5 Sinn Féin TDs have an absolutely solid base in their constituancy which has been established through hard work and activism. We are acknowledged as being the most community active parties in the 26 Counties and this will translate into more seats, councillors like Larry O'Toole, Killian Forde and Pearse Doherty among others have nationwide reputations for their work on the ground.

Snickers Man

dathi1 wrote:

like it or not...I think Sinn Fein will wipe out labour as a favoured Left wing party with the added advantage of a Nationlist slant. Probably the "new" irish party of the 21st century.

The New Fianna Fail, you mean. The similiarities are uncanny.Fianna Fail supposedly put the guns away in 1932 to fight the general election then but were unabashed about playing on their militaristic past and exulting in the gunmen that had fought both the War of Independence and the Civil War.

SF is very similar. Supposedly left wing, economically. Strongly nationalist. And with a culture of secrecy and obfuscation. (Just what did Martin McGuinness know of the proxy bombing operation that led to the death of Patsy Gillespie in his patch of Derry?) Ask himthat question and you'll get the same reaction that Haughey gave when asked about his mysterious personal fortune: None of your business.

DublinWriter wrote:

Never, ever works. Remember Ross Perot? Remember Sir James Goldsmith?
Those kind of parties have a lot of success initially, but end up tearing themselves apart as their leader and founder usually views the party as 'his'.

Not comparing apples with apples here, Oh Scribe. Both Britain and America effectively have two-party systems which work best when you have a simple choice between Pinky and Perky. In a PR system such as ours, small parties and independents can be elected more readily. So you have horrible gob****es like Neil Blaney and Jackie Healy-Rae getting into the Dail and staying there almost indefinitely.

President4Life

Given that the PD's are facing a right smacking in the next G.E. there're serious threats to their actual existance.

Really? Their poll ratings (4% up 1 in last poll) are higher what they were during the entire first term of the present government when they were on 2% and political-pundits were prediction their imminent extinction. The demise of the PD's has been greatly exaggerated.

As for this alleged new party, I don't like the name very much. If it's like the PD's on economic policy then it should be called the Liberal party. I welcome the inclusion of a new economic-liberal party into the political bearpit, because only one small such party exists at present, unlike the several leftwing parties that came in since 2002. The public needs a clear choice between ideologies, rather than between one liberal party, 3 or 4 socialist ones, and 2 centrist ones.

fly_agaric

President4Life wrote:

Really? Their poll ratings (4% up 1 in last poll) are higher what they were during the entire first term of the present government when they were on 2% and political-pundits were prediction their imminent extinction. The demise of the PD's has been greatly exaggerated.

Surprising. Do the peedees really have that much support? They haven't had the guts to run a candidate where I live (Bertie's home turf) for the last 3 general elections AFAICR. :rolleyes: They didn't even field a candidate in the local election. :rolleyes: Thats pretty shocking considering they are one of the two parties supposedly running the country and all kinds of head-the-balls seem to put themselves up for election as councillors. Surely they could have found someone.
All they really seem to have are a few high-profile "totem" candidates in a limited number of seats into which they funnel their resources.

cal29

FTA69 wrote:

What utter nonsense, all 5 Sinn Féin TDs have an absolutely solid base in their constituancy which has been established through hard work and activism. We are acknowledged as being the most community active parties in the 26 Counties and this will translate into more seats, councillors like Larry O'Toole, Killian Forde and Pearse Doherty among others have nationwide reputations for their work on the ground.

I will start this off by saying Iam a republican

Whilst the 5 PSF TDs do have a solid base they have not set the Dail alight in debates there performance has been pretty dismal there is more to beng a TD than Mrs Murphys rent allowance or getting someone various social welfare benefits while those things do help to build a solid base and get you to leinster house people expect more from you when you get there.

Of the three you mentioned as possible future TDs Larry whilst being a very nice person is more in the lines of what they already have Killian Forde seems like a bright enough guy and a bit more articulate than the 5 already there
Pearse Doherty I dont know much about other than his performance in the Euro election

According to the Sunday Bussiness Post Mary Lou might run in dublin as well whilst she might be a better performer than the current 5 she is a bit too middle class PC for my liking

The guy from your neck of the woods that also ran in Europe seemed alright as well David something

I dont know wether SF has been keeping these guys on a tight leash or wether they are reverting to the days they spent with the Special Branch when if they had to say anything it was say nothing but SF badly needs to get some performers into the Dail leaving most of the speaking to Caoimhin is no good as the guy is hardly charismatic

Time Magazine

cal29 wrote:

Mary Lou might run in dublin ...[but] she is a bit too middle class PC for my liking

Such a ridiculous point: I hate Sinn Féin's working-class lack of style. Same point. Both sterotypical and idiotic.

amacachi

as he/she was referring to one person i dont see how its sterrotyping

cal29

Angry Banana wrote:

Such a ridiculous point: I hate Sinn Féin's working-class lack of style. Same point. Both sterotypical and idiotic.

explain please how stating that I find mary lou Mcdonald too middle class and politicaly correct is A sterotypical and B idiotic

Love to hear your explanation for this statement