Do England have a world cup winning team?

ntlbell

for years and years i could never understand why england couldn't win a world cup or the euro's. (not that i ever want them to, listening to it for another 40 years would kill me)

Forgetting 66, they've always had the pick up of the top clubs in england, and looking at there squad today, it's pretty much world class in every position, but as a team they've always been terrible.

there was the theory a few years ago of two many stars everyone playing for themselves instead of the team, i don't think that was the problem but i can't work out what was.

if we had half of the england squad in the irish side we wouldn't shut up about how good we were.

so why is it England can't win an argument?

mike65

The reason is simple enough England have'nt had a world cup winning manager/coach. Sven will prove it again next summer.

Mike.

Necronomicon

They have all the ingredients, but unfortunately have a useless chef

jubbly

Yes they have all the players to win the world cup. Providing Sven picks the right team and tatics AND the players play for each other then they can win. Unfortuntely for England thats never going to happen

evilhomer

I have always disliked Svens Idea that you pick the best players.

I would prefer to pick the best team! Even if you have a crappy player on the left and have to leave Gerrard or Lampard on the bench, it should be done.

Unless Sven starts picking a balanced team England won't win anything.

eirebhoy

Necromomicon wrote:

They have all the ingredients, but unfortunately have a useless chef

OT but have to post this. Gattuso:

"I believe that Ireland without Roy Keane is like an orchestra without a conductor. They might have good musicians but there is no guarantee they will play good music." -

Johnny_the_fox

What gets me is that he always picks owen hargreaves... and owen has yet to have a good game for england. :eek:

wheres me jumpa

to me it seems he is afraid to make the decision to drop lampard/gerrard. next he will play campbell at right back to accommodate him, terry and ferdy. no doubt hte potential is there though.

whiskeyman

Do England have (potentially) world cup winning players? Yes
Do England have a world cup winning team? No

think that sums it up

KdjaCL

The opposite of that is when they did have a manager capable of that , they sacked him.
Robson and if Venables could have been persuaded to go to the WCs, would have had a chamce.

kdjac

PHB

Sven lacks balls.
But as time is going on, a 4-3-3 formation is getting more and more common.
If they play a 4-3-3, they could win it.
It would require dropping Lampard/Gerrard/Beckham
Personally I'd drop Lampard, I know crazy.
Gerrard is the best midfielder England have atm.
Beckham is a captain, who has huge quality, and produces in big big games.
They need Carrick/Parker to have an amazing season.
If either of those two play amazing, the papers will push for a place, and then he will have to play em

Rooney could win the world cup on his own the way he plays in the England shirt.

evilhomer

BBC Report

So it looks like Sven is going totally mad and may play 4-5-1 with ........ Beckham as the holding midfielder!!!

I would love to know what he has been smoking!

Whats wrong with playing Carrick there?? He plays that position all the time, surely would make more sense?

tetsujin1979

Right now the team Sven picks is too attack minded, no team is going to be on top for 90 minutes, the opposition are going to get possession at some point, and you can't see anyone in that midfield holding back and tackling for the ball, any decent counter-attacking side would convert that to chances, and eventually goals.

Sven's not really a bad coach, it's just he can't pick the team anymore, he has to go along with what the media want or face getting slaughtered in the press.

eirebhoy

Beckham as a holding midfielder is a foolish move. I just can't see him doing well there. He has all the ranges of passes but he has no experience there. A player called Paul Lawson came on for Celtic on Sunday and played the holding role. He got himself into the best possible positions to receive the ball, he always called for the ball and made the right choice. He then hounded the opposition when they had the ball. He is used to this position as he has been playing it for years. Beckham would not do the job imo. If Gerrard can't, Beckham certainly can't.

7/1 for a Wales win in front of 60-70,000 of Welsh fans. Has to be taken.

evilhomer

7/1, thats pretty good odds especially if Sven does go ahead with this ridiculous formation!! A draw is more likely though. Wonder is Earnshaw will start with Hartson?

d22ontour

I don't think england are capable of winning the world cup regardless of whom the manager is.They have some quality individual players, some over-rated players but they never play as a unit and thats what they have lacked for many years.

masterK

For me England are a painfully boring team, they lack any real spark and imagination, especially in midfield where they play a lot of very similar players. Also they don't have a real leader on the pitch such as a Keane or Maldini or even a Tony Adams. Could you ever imagine captain Beckham getting stuck into the players at half time after a poor performance?

therecklessone

eirebhoy wrote:

Beckham as a holding midfielder is a foolish move. I just can't see him doing well there. He has all the ranges of passes but he has no experience there. A player called Paul Lawson came on for Celtic on Sunday and played the holding role. He got himself into the best possible positions to receive the ball, he always called for the ball and made the right choice. He then hounded the opposition when they had the ball. He is used to this position as he has been playing it for years. Beckham would not do the job imo. If Gerrard can't, Beckham certainly can't.

7/1 for a Wales win in front of 60-70,000 of Welsh fans. Has to be taken.

The announcement that Beckham will play a holding role in a 4-5-1 formation only reaffirmed my belief that SGE is a prat.

You do not try out a new formation in a WC qualifier, you do it in a friendly. Like in Denmark. Instead of gutting your defence at HT, helping to destroy the confidence of your #2 GK.

Erikkson's decision has effectively told Jermaine Defoe that he does not rate him, which IMO is a bad move. Defoe is the best option England have after Rooney/Owen, and with Owen's previous injury problems, leaving a guy on the bench to play 5 across the middle while he (Defoe) is on form is crazy.

If he wants a holding midfielder he could have called up Parker or Butt, or played Carrick (who plays the role week in, week out). Beckham? You're having a laugh.

colster

masterK wrote:

For me England are a painfully boring team, they lack any real spark and imagination, especially in midfield where they play a lot of very similar players. Also they don't have a real leader on the pitch such as a Keane or Maldini or even a Tony Adams. Could you ever imagine captain Beckham getting stuck into the players at half time after a poor performance?

Totally agree. They don't have a Ronaldinho or a Zidane to make the difference in a really tight game.
I think their biggest problem is that they are unbalanced. They are still looking for a left sided winger. Apart from Rooney (Wright-Phillips & Cole) they have no-one who can beat a player.

PHB

They don't have a Ronaldinho or a Zidane to make the difference in a really tight game.

I recommend you look for a champions league final, sometime last you, and you keep your eyes on some player called Gerrard

colster

PHB wrote:

I recommend you look for a champions league final, sometime last you, and you keep your eyes on some player called Gerrard

Gerrard plays in a different role for Liverpool. In the 2nd half of CL final he had a free role when Hamann came on. He plays in a deeper role for England.
Anyway he's over-rated (Beckham mark 2). Liverpool & Gerrard were outplayed (when he played in a role much like his England role) in the 1st half.
Anyway AC Milan are not in the same league as Brazil who have Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo etc.

Jivin Turkey

colster wrote:

Apart from Rooney (Wright-Phillips & Cole) they have no-one who can beat a player.

That's a classic.

So apart from Rooney, and Wright-Philips, and Cole, they don't have anyone that can beat a player? Owen is no slouch when it comes to beating players either.

So now, apart from four players that play for them, no one can beat a player.

If that isn't an arguement as to why they won't win the World Cup I don't know what is!

colster wrote:

Anyway AC Milan are not in the same league as Brazil who have Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo etc.

Yes, they are in a league where some what decent defenders are required. There is no doubt that Brazil have some of the best attacking players in the world, but if Brazil were England, there would be queues of people trying to get in here to say England couldn't possibly win a world cup with such a shambolic defence. Because lets tell it like it is, Brazil's defence is shocking.

PHB

You don't have to be an AMC to change a game.
Keane and Vieira have been doign it for years as a standerd CM.
---
AC Milan aren't in the same league as Brazil?
Ronaldinho - Pirlo
Kaka - Kaka
Ronaldo - Shevkenco
Adriano - Vieiri
Robinho - Gilardino

Well lets see. Ronaldinho is better than Pirlo, but not by much.
Kaka and Kaka are similar players.
Shev would win over ronaldo imo.
Vieira scored more than Adriano last year
Robinho and Gilardinho have similar records, oh no wait, they don't. Gilardino has a better record. He has been a top scorer vs. Italian defenders, compared to Robinho vs. Brazilian defenders

AC Milan are up there with the best attacks in the world.
Defensivly is where they fell down, they switch off sometimes. But are still leagues ahead of Brazil's defense, so imagine what Gerrard will do to them.

England have one of, if not the best back 5 in the entire world, and once they put in a decent DMC Brazil would have massive trouble scoring against them, let alone someone esle.

Butt/Parker/Carrick
One of them has a good season.
Sven takes on a 4-3-3.
Beckham takes on one of the wing roles.
Rooney and Owen terrorise.
Gerrard and Lampard terrorise.
Beckham drops in the middle.
Butt/Parker/Carrick are uber destroys

It can work, and despite Sven's crapness, I think it can work.
I for one would like to see England win the WC.
After Ireland/Holland and Portugal, they'd be up there.[Man U players is who I follow after Ireland, and England have many]

d22ontour

PHB wrote:

England have one of, if not the best back 5 in the entire world, and once they put in a decent DMC Brazil would have massive trouble scoring against them, let alone someone else.

I don't agree with that seeing as both neville and cole can be major liabilities at the best of times and are no strangers to defensive blunders which at the level people are thinking england can aspire to will punish them.

PHB

I'm sorry, when?

Name me a blunder Neville has made in the past 3 years? Cause I honastly can't think of one. He has been the most solid player United have had for about 4 years now.
As for Cole, name me one? The guy is a titan

A Dub in Glasgo

Do England have a world cup winning team?

No

colster

Jivin Turkey wrote:

That's a classic.

So apart from Rooney, and Wright-Philips, and Cole, they don't have anyone that can beat a player? Owen is no slouch when it comes to beating players either.

So now, apart from four players that play for them, no one can beat a player.

If that isn't an arguement as to why they won't win the World Cup I don't know what is!

Rooney is the only one who has done it at the highest level. Owen hasn't really proved anything at the highest level. Cole isn't great. Wright Phillips has potential.
They have no-one of the class of Ronaldinho, Figo, Zidane etc.

England are a top side. Probably the best in Europe at the moment. But they have a lot of players that are over hyped Beckham, Owen, Gerrard, Lampard etc. and who consistently haven't performed to their billing at World Cups or European Championships.

After Rooney got injured at the Euro's they looked devoid of ideas/invention and very prosaic.
They same thing happened in the last World Cup.

therecklessone

colster wrote:

Rooney is the only one who has done it at the highest level. Owen hasn't really proved anything at the highest level.

:eek:

I say again.

:eek:

32 goals in 70 internationals.

Only English player to score at 4 international tournaments.

European footballer of the year 2001.

With all due respect to ManYoo and Wayne Rooney, what has the chap won again?

[edit]You do know football was played before 2002?[/edit]

colster

PHB wrote:

You don't have to be an AMC to change a game.
Keane and Vieira have been doign it for years as a standerd CM.
---
AC Milan aren't in the same league as Brazil?
Ronaldinho - Pirlo
Kaka - Kaka
Ronaldo - Shevkenco
Adriano - Vieiri
Robinho - Gilardino

Well lets see. Ronaldinho is better than Pirlo, but not by much.
Kaka and Kaka are similar players.
Shev would win over ronaldo imo.
Vieira scored more than Adriano last year
Robinho and Gilardinho have similar records, oh no wait, they don't. Gilardino has a better record. He has been a top scorer vs. Italian defenders, compared to Robinho vs. Brazilian defenders

AC Milan are up there with the best attacks in the world.
Defensivly is where they fell down, they switch off sometimes. But are still leagues ahead of Brazil's defense, so imagine what Gerrard will do to them.

England have one of, if not the best back 5 in the entire world, and once they put in a decent DMC Brazil would have massive trouble scoring against them, let alone someone esle.

Butt/Parker/Carrick
One of them has a good season.
Sven takes on a 4-3-3.
Beckham takes on one of the wing roles.
Rooney and Owen terrorise.
Gerrard and Lampard terrorise.
Beckham drops in the middle.
Butt/Parker/Carrick are uber destroys

It can work, and despite Sven's crapness, I think it can work.
I for one would like to see England win the WC.
After Ireland/Holland and Portugal, they'd be up there.[Man U players is who I follow after Ireland, and England have many]

AC Milan are a good side. I think Brazil are better.

Getting back to the point though. I don't think Gerrard is in the same class as a Ronaldinho. I can't see him driving England to the World Cup.
Gerrard played his best games for Liverpool last season when he was given a free role in front of Alonso + Hamann.
I think that was a new position for him last year. He's the Pools danger man. I 'd like to see how he'd cope with a man marker. I don't think he'd cope as well as say Ronaldinho would.

In you're team where's the invention going to come from. That's the problem that England have had under Ericsson in tournaments. They quickly run out of ideas.

colster

therecklessone wrote:

:eek:

I say again.

:eek:

32 goals in 70 internationals.

Only English player to score at 4 international tournaments.

European footballer of the year 2001.

With all due respect to ManYoo and Wayne Rooney, what has the chap won again?

[edit]You do know football was played before 2002?[/edit]

When has Owen done it at a World Cup or European Championship.
Owen is a finisher not a creator. Rooney proved in the European Championships that he can create and score goals.

Rooney is more important than Owen is to England winning the World Cup.
If you take Owen out of the side you can replace him with Defore.
Who would you replace Rooney with?

therecklessone

colster wrote:

When has Owen done it at a World Cup or European Championship.

He scored at four of them. Did you read my post?

He scored the goal of the tournamnet at WC98 against Argentina, and was easily England's best player (when Hoddle eventually played him). He was 18 at the time.

Only Bobby Charlton, Gary Lineker and Jimmy Greaves have scored more goals for his country.

colster

therecklessone wrote:

He scored at four of them. Did you read my post?

He scored the goal of the tournamnet at WC98 against Argentina, and was easily England's best player (when Hoddle eventually played him). He was 18 at the time.

Only Bobby Charlton, Gary Lineker and Jimmy Greaves have scored more goals for his country.

Owen is a good player but not a great player. To win a World Cup you need great players. I think of all the players that England have Rooney is the closest to a great player that they have.

All this is typical hyping up by the English press. England are a good side but so are Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Holland, Czech Republic, Spain, France, Germany etc.
If England played any of those sides in the World Cup in Germany it would be a close call as to who would win.

[Jackass]

I love watching the English build themselves up so much, only to see it all come crumbling down every time, because, with their famous arrogance, they and their media think they are far better than they actually are.

I also enjoy seeing who will be the next scape goat to make them all feel like less of an idiot for being outragesly overly confident, and also to say "we would have won it if only......."
e.g. C. Waddle, S. Pearce, D. Beckham, D. James.
No, it wasn't their faults individually, it was because you had a weak player in your team because you dont have anyone better, therefore you are not the best team in the world....do we all see how it works now?

The only thing worse than the English hype about their own players is Irish people who believe it, and only because they follow an English club like it's their life and blood....even though they aren't even from the same country as the club....that's even more pathetic again, but i wont get started.....

therecklessone

DubGuy wrote:

The only thing worse than the English hype about their own players is Irish people who believe it, and only because they follow an English club like it's their life and blood....even though they aren't even from the same country as the club....that's even more pathetic again, but i wont get started.....

You already have...so why stop?

The only pathetic thing I can see is the same old same old enmity towards England.

As for the "They aren't even from the same country" codology...catch a grip. How many members of Brian Kerr's squad ply their trade in the Eircom League? Can I take it you've no interest in our national team then?

colster

therecklessone wrote:

You already have...so why stop?

The only pathetic thing I can see is the same old same old enmity towards England.

As for the "They aren't even from the same country" codology...catch a grip. How many members of Brian Kerr's squad ply their trade in the Eircom League? Can I take it you've no interest in our national team then?

I wouldn't mind seeing them win it. I don't think they are quite there yet though. They still haven't nailed down the formation. Although I think the 4-5-1/Chelsea formation could be good.
I think they need a left footed winger. Sven seems to go for individuals rather than team building. Take his messing around in friendlies. I can't understand why the likes of Thompson, Downing haven't got a run of games to sort out the left side of midfield.

[Jackass]

therecklessone wrote:

You already have...so why stop?

The only pathetic thing I can see is the same old same old enmity towards England.

As for the "They aren't even from the same country" codology...catch a grip. How many members of Brian Kerr's squad ply their trade in the Eircom League? Can I take it you've no interest in our national team then?

Actually no, I do follow english leauge (i use the term "english" loosely....as how many english players play in premier leauge starting 11's...less than half i'd estimate...touche).

But it's very entertaining football...the best in the world infact,and i certainly wouldn't call the english the "old enemy" , I follow the leauge as a neutral supporter, and i love to watch all Irish players perform in the leauge. But that's because of my interest in the national team as, you see, i am infact from Ireland.

My point is that the english press and media irritate me, as do their fans at tournaments. That is why i enjoy their innevitable demise. And as for Irish peolpe worshiping english clubs and players, i still think it's pathetic, but in a funny way, even tatooing themselves sometimes, and buying all the gear.... it reminds of a kid who really wants to be part of the big kids gang, so he goes around dressing like them and idolising them.....but will never actually be one of them...no matter how hard he tries

But each to their own i suppose. If that's how you want to spend your money....

But like i said, i'll could rant for pages and pages about it, but i wont, for my sanity, your boredom, and it's not what the thread is about. I won't say another word about it...so feel free to disagree with me all you want

Pepe LeFrits

Stupid IE crashed and lost my post. But in brief: Lampard has been England's best midfielder for quite a while, domestically and when playing for England.

.............. Robinson
Neville [2 of Terry/Sol/Rio] Cole
.......... Parker or Carrick
........... Gerrard Lampard
Wright-Phillips ........... Rooney
................. Owen

= Good team, unlikely to put in as insipid a performance as was seen against the likes of Brazil, France and Portugal. England have lots of good dead-ball takers (ones who can handle the pressure better too), and lots of players who can do a lot more for the team than Beckham too. One of the CBs should be captain.

Seaneh

Englands problem is that the defence is too exposed by the midfeild.
Most good passing teams just bypass htier midfeild and when you have 4-5 attackers passing the ball between them and blitzing Rio/Terry/Carra/Campble and the wingbacks there isn't a whole lot the defence can do without one or two though tackling midfeilders throwing thier weight around and making life dificult.

And on the brazil topic, they actually have a decaint defence roque junior rearly has a bad game for them and Lucio is a rock and on top of that Dida screams his head off and organises them very well, thats said they could be a lot better at the back.


As for the world cup I think on thier day Italy are the best team in the world.
then again so are Brazil, Argentina and a few others...
It's pot luck.

Jivin Turkey

colster wrote:

Rooney is the only one who has done it at the highest level. Owen hasn't really proved anything at the highest level.

As therecklessone has pointed out the inadequacies of this statement, I see no point in continuing.

colster wrote:

England are a top side. Probably the best in Europe at the moment. But they have a lot of players that are over hyped Beckham, Owen, Gerrard, Lampard etc

This statement is ranks pretty highly in the hypocroscy scale.

colster wrote:

and who consistently haven't performed to their billing at World Cups or European Championships.

Beckham seems to turn out his best performances for England. Plenty of them in the big games. Lampard despite not performing at the last EC still managed three goals. The last EC was both Lampards and Gerrards first major championship (bar a single substitute appearance by Gerrard at WC2000). They have however proven themselves on the European stage, may times.

colster wrote:

After Rooney got injured at the Euro's they looked devoid of ideas/invention and very prosaic. They same thing happened in the last World Cup.

Who got injured for them at the last world cup? It wasnt Rooney to the best of my knowledge.

Jivin Turkey

Seaneh wrote:

they actually have a decaint defence roque junior rearly has a bad game for them

I have to disagree with you here. And while I dont claim to have watched every single Brazilian game, I saw them all at the CC in the Summer. He was exposed, a lot. Borgetti had him in his pocket against Mexico.

Agreed, Lucio is a monster of player, but the problem is he is so good at taking the ball into midfield, he can leave the backline exposed. So one of the strong points to his game actually comes out as a weak point in a team sense.

Italy on form are one of the best. For the WC Im going for a punt on Holland. Good value. The trials and tribulations of the 90s are over, new team, new manager, no more muppets.

mike65

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Who got injured for them at the last world cup? It wasnt Rooney to the best of my knowledge.

He lost his right (?) boot and twisted his ankle after that he was crook and England faltered from that moment.

Mike

Seaneh

I know what your saying about Lucio and his runs, he seems to think his name is Ze Roberto sometimes but I honestly disagree with you about Roque Junior.
I know the man had a nightmere of a season at leeds but it was hardly his fault the whole team was ****e, he bounced back from that and had a blinder of a season for siena when he went back to italy and even earned a place at Bayer Lav. the season after that, and since moving to germany he has never looked a bad player.
Borgetti is a player who can put just about any centrehalf in his pocket on a good day, his posistional sense is amazing.

The other thing Brazil have going for them is Emerson, the man is everywhere, at roma the fans used to call him "all things to all people" becuase if he wasn't defending he was making a 50 yard pass or popping up in the box for a header.

Holland do look quite good at the moment, I've been impressed with them.

Pepe LeFrits

Jivin Turkey wrote:

For the WC Im going for a punt on Holland. Good value. The trials and tribulations of the 90s are over, new team, new manager, no more muppets.

If I can get suitable odds, i will be doing so too. They've an oustanding record under Van Basten, someone who knows how to win. Gone are the old 'golden generation' of muppets, in are a load of highly talented hungry youngsters (see Kuyt, Robben, Van Persie, Sneijder, De Jong, Heitinga, Maduro etc...). Playing in Germany will almost be like home ties for them, and I really rate their chances.

Jivin Turkey

Seaneh wrote:

I know what your saying about Lucio and his runs, he seems to think his name is Ze Roberto sometimes but I honestly disagree with you about Roque Junior.
I know the man had a nightmere of a season at leeds but it was hardly his fault the whole team was ****e, he bounced back from that and had a blinder of a season for siena when he went back to italy and even earned a place at Bayer Lav. the season after that, and since moving to germany he has never looked a bad player. Borgetti is a player who can put just about any centrehalf in his pocket on a good day, his posistional sense is amazing.

Im not judging him on his season at Leeds either. He is not a great defender, and while he may be playing well at club level, for Brazil it is a different kettle of fish because he gets a fraction of the cover he would do at club level. Even from his own defenders! Three out of the four of the Brazilian back-line are of no stranger to the oppositions half. Compare that to any other team!

Brazil are weak on set-pieces, anyone who can hit them there will do well against them. I have a feeling if Brazil were to come up against one of the Scandinavian teams they would struggle. Sweden or Denmark would not roll over for them like other teams (from outside Europe) would. They are solid enough at the back, and have enough attacking force to hit Brazil where it hurts.

Seaneh wrote:

The other thing Brazil have going for them is Emerson, the man is everywhere, at roma the fans used to call him "all things to all people" becuase if he wasn't defending he was making a 50 yard pass or popping up in the box for a header.

Agreed, absolutely magnificent player. I worried about a partnership with Ze Roberto in the CC, but Ze Roberto seems to have learned a lot more about midfield play than what I remember from his Leverkusen days.

But even if Gilberto were to partner Emerson in the centre, the back line are still prone to leaving gaps. Any good forward will expose it. Even with a wall of Gilberto/Emerson in front of them.

Seaneh wrote:

Holland do look quite good at the moment, I've been impressed with them.

They are still 11/1 with PP so Id say you will be able to get them at 16s if you shop around.

A lot of people still attach the in-fighting tag with them, so get them before people cop on.

Davey Devil

This thread is too funny.

Where are the world class players in England's team?

In my opinion the only genuinely world class player is Terry. He's the only player from England I'd have in a World XI.

So many of their players are completly over-rated by the English media just so they can shoot them down when they enevitably fail in the World Cup. England's players just don't have the technical skills to succeed. They rarely string 5 passes in a row together in big games.

Win the World Cup? I'd be very suprised if they got passed the quarter finals.

Pepe LeFrits

What's your definition of a world class player, one who can get into a World XI? Cos then you'd only have 11, and presumeably nobody would be able to get passed the quarters.

I'd consider Terry, Campbell, Ferdinand, A. Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney and Owen to be world class players. Backed up by good to excellent players in Robinson, Neville, Parker, Carrick, Wright-Phillips, J. Cole and others.

Jivin Turkey

As much as it may pain people to admit, Gary Neville is a world class RB.

Rarely puts a foot wrong in defence, becoming more accustomed to going forward late in his career for some reason, and absolutely chronicles of experience.

There aint many better than him.

colster

Jivin Turkey wrote:

As therecklessone has pointed out the inadequacies of this statement, I see no point in continuing.[\QUOTE]

Explain this one. If Owen is so great why is he at Newcastle? Owen has scored a few goals. So did Lineker. So did Shearer. Rooney was arguably the best player at the European Championships in Portugal.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

This statement is ranks pretty highly in the hypocroscy scale.[\QUOTE]

How is that hypocritical. I said at the moment. We're talking about Englands chances at the World Cup. I'm giving an opinion about their chances. If I were to rank their chances at the moment I'd say that Brazil and Argentina stand out for after seeing them in the Confederations Cup. Remember England were just beaten by Denmark 4-1. Based on the potential of the rest of the teams the you can see Italy, Holland, Czech Republic, Spain have as good a chance as England.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Beckham seems to turn out his best performances for England. Plenty of them in the big games. [\QUOTE]

Beckham has played in a lot of tournaments for England and has never set the world on fire.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Lampard despite not performing at the last EC still managed three goals. The last EC was both Lampards and Gerrards first major championship (bar a single substitute appearance by Gerrard at WC2000). They have however proven themselves on the European stage, may times. [\QUOTE]

They performed well but not as good as Rooney IMO. After Rooney went off against Portugal England looked bereft of invention.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Who got injured for them at the last world cup? It wasnt Rooney to the best of my knowledge.[\QUOTE]

Against Brazil in the last WC when they had to chase the game they had nothing. They just played the long ball. They had no invention/creativity or any ideas on how to break down the Brazilian defence

That's their main weakness. They haven't got the really creative players that they're main rivals have. I don't see how this is a controversial thing to say. It's just fact.

Davey Devil

kaids wrote:

What's your definition of a world class player, one who can get into a World XI?

No, I was just adding that only Terry would be in my World XI.

As for these players being world class:

Terry: Agreed.

Campbell: LOL

Ferdinand: Wouldn't even get in my England XI

A. Cole: One decent Euro Championship, could get better - not World Class yet.

Gerrard: Goes missing, long ball merchant.

Lampard: Most over-rated midfielder in the world, great fitness that's about it.
Papers over poor performances with the odd goal but Lampard isn't creative enough to be considered world class.

Rooney: Great potential, not there yet.

Owen: Where did it all go wrong?

Pepe LeFrits

Davey Devil wrote:

No, I was just adding that only Terry would be in my World XI.

As for these players being world class:

Terry: Agreed.

Campbell: LOL

What's so funny about this? The guy has been an absolute rock for years (was in the team of the tournament for Euro 2004 IIRC), has one average season blighted by injury and you're LOLing? lol!

Ferdinand: Wouldn't even get in my England XI

Why, who is better than him?

A. Cole: One decent Euro Championship, could get better - not World Class yet.

One excellent Euros, and years of excellent performances for Arsenal. People seem to think he only learned to defend at Euro 2004, which is complete bollocks. He's been brilliant for Arsenal for ages, of course nobody actually watched those games, only England games and jumped on the bandwagon when Cole couldn't hold down the entire left flank on his own.

Gerrard: Goes missing, long ball merchant.

Does go missing, but is outstanding on song, particularily when in his best position.

Lampard: Most over-rated midfielder in the world, great fitness that's about it.

Yeah, right. What was his goal against Barcelona (the swivel and hit into top corner) then, a bench press? He is an outstanding attacking midfielder. Always gets into the right position, has great passing and work-rate. Great right boot too.

Papers over poor performances with the odd goal but Lampard isn't creative enough to be considered world class.

I disagree, he's got great distribution.

Rooney: Great potential, not there yet.

He's not consistent yet, but he nearly always performs in the big games and is as good as anyone when he does.

Owen: Where did it all go wrong?

Has just been bought for £17m, yeah his career has obviously gone down the crapper...

Davey Devil

kaids wrote:

Why, who is better than him?

Jamie Carragher and Woodgate when fit. Campbell is yesterdays man.

Ashley Cole is very good player, i just wouldn't go as far as calling him world class.

Lampard, blah blah. He looks good in a great team. We'll see how good he is in that England midfield in the World Cup. There's at least 20 players in the world I'd rather have than him playing attacking midfield.

Owen wasn't good enough at Real and Newcastle had a panic attack and paid way over the odds for him. Hardly a dream move. If I was him I'd be rueing the day I ever left Liverpool.