Do England have a world cup winning team?

Necronomicon

Davey Devil wrote:

Owen wasn't good enough at Real

He was their top-scorer despite having less minutes on the pitch than any of their main strikers. He was unlucky to be caught in the whole Madrid manager merry-go-round. I wouldn't say he wasn't good enough, I'd say he wasn't given his chance.

Davey Devil

Robinho, Julio Baptista and Ronaldo.

Would you start him instead of any these three players?

I wouldn't, he's not good enough.

Pepe LeFrits

Davey Devil wrote:

Jamie Carragher and Woodgate when fit. Campbell is yesterdays man.

What are your opinions on United's other defenders? Because a Rio led defence did a lot better than a Carragher led one. I guess we place different emphasis on one season. Carragher has had one outstanding season, Ferdinand (who had a very good season, the difference in United was evident) has had many. Campbell has had one average season (people get injuries, it happens) and many outstanding ones. Suddenly he's 'yesterday's man'. hmm.

Lampard, blah blah. He looks good in a great team. We'll see how good he is in that England midfield in the World Cup. There's at least 20 players in the world I'd rather have than him playing attacking midfield.

He was that great team's top scorer last year, was ever present and won god knows how many awards. He looks ****ing great in that team. Name the 20 players.

Owen wasn't good enough at Real and Newcastle had a panic attack and paid way over the odds for him. Hardly a dream move. If I was him I'd be rueing the day I ever left Liverpool.

Owen was good enough for Real imo (as he demonstrated by his goals) but was pushed out for other reasons (club politics). Raul can't be dropped, and they've got a Brazillian manager who is in love with his own countrymen. How his move works out for him remains to be seen. Personally I think his career would have gone a lot better if he had either a) stuck with Liverpool (easy to say in hindsight, they may not do any better though), or b) left Liverpool much earlier. He's easily good enough to play for the top 3, but he's come on to the market at the wrong times when the other teams have already got very good people in his position.

Coney Island

It is not enough to have a great team, you need to have the best team. And quite honestly I don't see when England ever had the best team in the world....

Davey Devil

kaids wrote:

Name the 20 players.

No.

Pepe LeFrits

:rolleyes:

Davey Devil

I couldn't be arsed. Suffice to say I don't rate him.

Just to give you an example of how much I don't rate him, I'd have Danny Murphy in the team instead of him.

therecklessone

There's far too many posts on this thread to dissect and respond to one by one, so I'll just have my say and leave it at that.

International managers cannot buy and sell players, so they face two choices: either pick your best 11 players and find a system to suit them, or pick a system and find 11 players who can make it work.

For me, SGE does neither. He picks the best 11 players (in his opinion) but to date has failed to find a system to accomodate those players. The problem lies in midfield: Lampard and Gerrard are too similar in their approach to the game, Beckham has neither the discipline nor the skills required to play RW and the left side has been a persisitent problem since well before Sven's tenure.

The only way the trio of Lampard/Gerrard/Beckham can be accomodated in the starting XI is as part of a midfield three with a holding player playing behind them (Carrick IMO):

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Robbo

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Neville

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Rio---Terry----Cole

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Carrick

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----Lampard--Beckham--Gerrard

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Owen---Rooney

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The problem with that lineup is it sacrafices width to accomodate the midfield three.

A more orthodox 442 would have to see either Lampard or Gerrard drop to the bench to be replaced by a holding midfielder, and IMO Beckham dropped for SWP with Stuart Downing or Wayne Bridge filling the LW position. But there's no way SGE would drop two of his sacred cows, so thats a no-goer.

Far more practical would be a 4-3-3 (4-5-1 in defence) formation similar to that suggested for the Welsh match, with the following personal:

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Robbo

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Neville

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Rio---Terry----Cole

---

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Carrick

---

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Lampard----Gerrard

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---SWP

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Rooney--

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Owen

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The one drawback is the fact that Owen has neither the height nor the strength to hold a ball up as a lone striker for long enough to allow a couter-attacking style of play, certainly not against quality (see Italian) defenders. The solution? Swap Rooney for Owen, but then you're moving the most natural goalscorer on the team away from where he would have his biggest impact. Again, Sven needs to drop Beckham to make this work, and I doubt he has the balls to do that.

I wish we had this sort of conundrum!

therecklessone

(cont)

England's problem is the simple fact that Erikkson hasn't the balls to make difficult and sometimes unpopular decisions. Dropping David James is an easy call to make, he's not going to unseat Paul Robinson anyway. The decision to drop Beckham (a must IMO) or Lampard/Gerrard seems beyond his abilities.

TBH, appointing Beckham as captain will prove to be the millstone around his neck. Beckham was annointed with that decision, and Golden Balls has proved to be untouchable since. The simple fact is that Beckham is NOT a right-winger, he has neither the pace nor the ability to beat a player. His passing and crossing ability is exemplary, but every time he drifts into a central position he leaves a gap on the right-side for an adventurous LB to exploit. That will be punished at the highest level.

For the record, I consider the following players to be "world class" (a phrase too often employed to have any real meaning anymore): Terry, Rio, Gerrard, Rooney, and Owen. Not every successful team has had 11 world beaters in their ranks, they all need their water carriers. In fairness to the English team, their water carriers are of a significantly higher quality than most: Neville, Cole, Robbo, Lampard, Beckham. In addition they have an exciting crop of youngsters coming into the squad in Defoe, SWP, Jenas, Carrick, Parker, Downing (when he gets his call up), and Kirkland.

Finally, Sven is a bottler.

PHB

Beckham is not a winger, he is a right sided midfield player.
You can't compare him to SWP, cause hes not like him.
SWP will never ever have the crossing ability of Beckham.
Beckham will never have the ability to go past players than SWP, and he never had it.
Nothings changed much in Beckhams ability, and he is still a world class right winger. He does drop into the center, but not when playing with Neville.
Him and Neville have played together since about 16 and they know each other inside out, when they are together, England are incredible down the right.
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Robbo

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Neville

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Rio---Terry----Cole

---

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Carrick

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----Lampard--Beckham--Gerrard

---

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Owen---Rooney

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Is something that I can see being done, and I would like to see.
However I'd rather Butt in that role. He had a bad year in Newcastle, but if you remember him at the World Cup, you know he could set the world alight at Brum. If not him, then Parker. Carrick ain't there yet imo.

If Gerrard/Lampard/Beckham/Rooney/Owen are playing, England will score.
The rest of the players just have to stop the other team from scoring

therecklessone

PHB wrote:

Beckham is not a winger, he is a right sided midfield player.
You can't compare him to SWP, cause hes not like him.
SWP will never ever have the crossing ability of Beckham.
Beckham will never have the ability to go past players than SWP, and he never had it.

Exactly. But you wouldn't compare Frank Lampard and Arjen Robben, would you? Neither could do the other's job.

With Beckham, he's a Lampard style player pushed out on to the right side of midfield. Why bother? They've already got two capable AMs, both of whomare more likely to get goals than Beckham. When he plays England lose width. Replace him with SWP and they gain pace and width, whilst losing out on his crossing ability (which may not be a hugh loss with two small men up front in Owen and Rooney) and dead ball skills.

PHB wrote:

Nothings changed much in Beckhams ability, and he is still a world class right winger. He does drop into the center, but not when playing with Neville.

I take it you mean RM rather than RW? And I disagree about him not doing it with Neville on the pitch, he's been doing it for years both with England and when he was at ManYoo. His best position would be in the middle of the midfield three I suggested where his range of passing could be used to great effect. But any decent attacking full back looking at that lineup would rub his hands with glee. Roberto Carlos with an unimpeeded run at Gary Neville? Only one winner.

PHB wrote:

However I'd rather Butt in that role. He had a bad year in Newcastle, but if you remember him at the World Cup, you know he could set the world alight at Brum. If not him, then Parker. Carrick ain't there yet imo.

A touch melodramatic, but I don't care: I will NEVER forget the impact Michael Carrick had when he came on in Martin Jol's first game in charge with 30 minutes to go. 3-0 to Charlton at home and Spurs' tails placed firmly between legs, Carrick was a revelation. Were unlucky to lose 3-2 that day.

I've since seen him in the flesh 6 or 7 times and he's never disappointed. I don't believe the television cameras (when they bother to turn up at WHL) do him justice, so much of his work is quiet and unspectacular, but as a Spurs fan I expect his name to be first on our team sheet.

If England employed the 4-1-3-2 formation I've suggested they'd lose width, and their opponents full backs would be given more freddom to venture forth. Dangerous against Brazil/Argentina/Italy/Holland? I think so.

Jivin Turkey

colster wrote:

Explain this one. If Owen is so great why is he at Newcastle? Owen has scored a few goals. So did Lineker. So did Shearer. Rooney was arguably the best player at the European Championships in Portugal.

If Owen wasn't so great why was he playing with Real Madrid? What sort of logic is that?

I don't need to expand on the point I already made when you come out with a gem of a statement like: "Rooney is the only one who has done it at the highest level. Owen hasn't really proved anything at the highest level". I think Rooney is an amazing player, but to compare what he has achieved in the game to what Owen has is laughable.

colster wrote:

How is that hypocritical. I said at the moment. We're talking about Englands chances at the World Cup. I'm giving an opinion about their chances.

Because YOU said England are probably the best side in Europe, and then went on to lament all the hype around the team.

colster wrote:

Beckham has played in a lot of tournaments for England and has never set the world on fire.

Beckham has delivered outstanding performances for England over the years in qualifiers and finals alike.

colster wrote:

They performed well but not as good as Rooney IMO. After Rooney went off against Portugal England looked bereft of invention.

Whats your points here?

Earlier on you said "they hadn't performed to their billing" and now you are saying they performed well but not as well as the player you said was probably the best in the tournament.

colster wrote:

Against Brazil in the last WC when they had to chase the game they had nothing. They just played the long ball. They had no invention/creativity or any ideas on how to break down the Brazilian defence

That's their main weakness. They haven't got the really creative players that they're main rivals have. I don't see how this is a controversial thing to say. It's just fact.

Its not a controversional thing to say. It is probably a fact. But they have things in other areas, such as defence, that say Brazil dont have.

PHB

Beckham is not a lampard style player, pushed to the right.

Beckham is a right sided midfielder player.
He is a different style player to SWP, just like say Heinze is a different style LB to Carlos.
He is not, and never has been a AMC.
First off, his short passing is not up there, he can't thread balls through.
He whips the balls in, and when I use whip, I use it for a reason. Beckham can cross the ball with incredible pace and accuracy, every bloody time. If he gets 20 crosses, odds are the 20 crosses will be decent chances.
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I take it you mean RM rather than RW? And I disagree about him not doing it with Neville on the pitch, he's been doing it for years both with England and when he was at ManYoo. His best position would be in the middle of the midfield three I suggested where his range of passing could be used to great effect. But any decent attacking full back looking at that lineup would rub his hands with glee. Roberto Carlos with an unimpeeded run at Gary Neville? Only one winner.

The alleged weakness of a 4-3-3 system, that your full backs don't get much protection.
Well first off, your full backs get up the field more, so their full backs have to deal with that first, and secondly
the 2 midfielders who are concerned with defense, as the other tends to be a total AMC, help out the full backs.
Fullbacks aren't as willing to go forward in a 4-4-2, cause they have less protection aswell.

colster

Jivin Turkey wrote:

If Owen wasn't so great why was he playing with Real Madrid? What sort of logic is that?

I don't need to expand on the point I already made when you come out with a gem of a statement like: "Rooney is the only one who has done it at the highest level. Owen hasn't really proved anything at the highest level". I think Rooney is an amazing player, but to compare what he has achieved in the game to what Owen has is laughable.

When I say Rooney is the only one o perform at the highest level I mean that he performed to his billing/hype. Going into the tournament Rooney was touted as probably the best young player in the world and he proved it at the tournament.
Owen went to the 1998 world cup with the same hype and scored one good goal. IMO he didn't liev up to the hype.
Gerrard is being touted as the best midfielder in the World yet didn't look it in Portugal.

Because YOU said England are probably the best side in Europe, and then went on to lament all the hype around the team.

I said at the moment. Look being the best team in Europe at the moment doesn't mean they have the right formula to win a world cup.

Beckham has delivered outstanding performances for England over the years in qualifiers and finals alike.

Beckham has never been a stand out player at any of the tournaments he's played in. He's the most over-hyped player of all time.

Whats your points here?

Earlier on you said "they hadn't performed to their billing" and now you are saying they performed well but not as well as the player you said was probably the best in the tournament.

Gerrard was being touted as one of the best midfielders in the world going into that tournament yet when Rooney went off against Portugal England lacked any invention/creation. Gerrard and Lampard are good players.

Look I've seen England at lots of World Cups with players who had won lots, with clubs who were dominating Europe and have never looked like winning a world cup. The way people are going on you would think the current squad is the best they have had since 1966/1970. The current Squad has a lot of energetic, full of running athletic type players but lack really creative players.

Its not a controversional thing to say. It is probably a fact. But they have things in other areas, such as defence, that say Brazil dont have.

Let me put it this way I think that Brazils would expose the England defence more that England would expose the Brazil defence.
Don't underestimate the Brazilian defence.
Look what the likes of Ronaldinho did against Chelsea, Kaka did against Liverpool and Man Utd.

[Jackass]

PHB wrote:

Beckham is not a winger, he is a right sided midfield player.

PHB wrote:

Nothings changed much in Beckhams ability, and he is still a world class right winger.

Hmmm.....anyway, whatever way you look at it..Beckham is a two trick poney. He has a superb pass...and is very good at free kicks.

As you pointed out he dosen't have the ability to beat players, he has little pace and therefore dosen't have the attributes required to be a winger.

He isn't good enough to play a central role. Unless he gets severe protection he's a liability in the centre, and his passing and free kicks are not worthy of that kind of risk and sacrafice of an extra player. He dosen't hve the ability to hold a central midfield together..either technicly or ability wise.

Beckham is a celebrey. Not a footballer. It's the reason Ferguson got rid of him, It's the only reason he plays for the club he plays for. It's an endorsment deal, to tap into the lucrative asian market..where he is a god..they need pictures of him in a Madrid jersey. The same reason Man utd toured there, and bought Ji-Sung Park (ability aside).

There's a myth about Roberto Carlos that he was the best free kick taker in the world, mostly because he scored possibly the best free kick ever against France. But when you look at the stats, he actually has scored a tiny percentage of shots he has taken from free kicks...about 5%. He just trys the spectacular...and when it comes off, people take notice.

In any given game, watch how many "spectacular" passes Beckham will attempt...through balls, and crosses. Count them as the amount of times it costs his team possesion. Count how many times he will create a goal. Far less assists than you would imagine, and the most wastefull player of possesion on the pitch.

In summary...he's crap. He wouldn't even get in the England squad if he wasn't marketed so well.

eirebhoy

kaids wrote:

Stupid IE crashed and lost my post. But in brief: Lampard has been England's best midfielder for quite a while, domestically and when playing for England.

I don't agree at all. Domestically maybe but he rarely (if ever) impressed me in an England shirt.

Pepe LeFrits

eirebhoy wrote:

I don't agree at all. Domestically maybe but he rarely (if ever) impressed me in an England shirt.

Who impressed you more then?

Lampard scored 3 goals in Euro 2004 (despite largely being played as Sven's interpretation of a holding midfielder) and has another 3 thus far in the WC quals. Beckham & Gerrard have been muck for England for the past while.

PHB

I just used Winger wrong there.
He isn't a winger, he doesn't beat people.
He never ever ever has had the ability to beat people, ever.
All he has ever done is get into good positions and knock in quality crosses.
Nothing has changed, so if he is crap now, he has always been crap.

eirebhoy

kaids wrote:

Who impressed you more then?

Rooney. The fact that I can't think of any other player that has been performing better than Lampard for England says a lot in itself. Anyway, I promised Jivin Turkey I wouldn't talk about Lampard.

Pepe LeFrits

Right so, you're actually agreeing with my assessment that Lampard is England's best midfielder at the moment, rather than disagreeing with it? Just to be clear.

Spider_Baby!

PHB wrote:

Is something that I can see being done, and I would like to see.
However I'd rather Butt in that role. He had a bad year in Newcastle, but if you remember him at the World Cup, you know he could set the world alight at Brum. If not him, then Parker. Carrick ain't there yet imo.

Carrick has a year to prove he is good enough to be there. It will be good to see the battle between Parker and Carrick throughout the year, i hope so anyway!

applehunter

Imagine it they won the World Cup.

We'd never hear the end of it.

Davey Devil

kaids wrote:

Right so, you're actually agreeing with my assessment that Lampard is England's best midfielder at the moment, rather than disagreeing with it? Just to be clear.

I think what he's saying is the whilst Lampard might well be England's best midfield performer the competition isn't exactly shìt hot.

Compared to the best midfielders in the world he is ordinary. England don't have the players, manager nor team to win the World Cup. Anyone who thinks so, clearly doesn't have much knowledge of the game.

Pepe LeFrits

Davey Devil wrote:

I think what he's saying is the whilst Lampard might well be England's best midfield performer the competition isn't exactly shìt hot.

I can read thanks. He disagreed with me saying that Lampard is England's best midfielder, whether he's any good or not, doesn't have any baring.

Compared to the best midfielders in the world he is ordinary. England don't have the players, manager nor team to win the World Cup. Anyone who thinks so, clearly doesn't have much knowledge of the game.

:rolleyes:

In other words, anyone who disagrees with Davey Devil, doesn't have much knowledge of the game. Were you watching when AC Milan and Barcelona were eliminated from the Champions League this year by Carragher, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard and co?

They have the players to win the World Cup, whether they do it is another matter entirely.

Davey Devil

The Champions League has no relevance.

History shows England don't perform at the highest level. It's because they are tactically nieve and simply don't have players who are technically skilled enough to get the job done. They won't win it, they won't even get passed the Quarter Finals.

Necronomicon

Davey Devil wrote:

They won't win it, they won't even get passed the Quarter Finals.

Any chance I could have a look at your crystal ball and check out next week's lotto numbers?

PHB

Davey Devil, if you believe that, put a bet on it.
You'd get ****ing fantastic odds on it.

evilhomer

applehunter wrote:

Imagine it they won the World Cup.

We'd never hear the end of it.

They have (1966)


And we haven't! :rolleyes:

The Muppet

I believe England have the players to win the world cup but not the Manager. Sven has been found out tactically in the past by letting opponents off the hook by switching tacticts mid match when he gets a one goal lead. This seems to be a trend with International managers as Kerr is guilty of the same.

Villain

My 2 cents:

England can at any time put out 11 individuals that on paper are as good as any other nation, the problem is, that is exactly what they are "INDIVIDUALS". I mean compare England to Ireland, on paper England have far move ability however Ireland always manage to dig out big results and overachieve, why is that? IMO 2 words "passion and desire". Ireland up until lately were always the underdogs never expected to get very far and they played with no real expectations just hope. I mean look back at the Irish game against Italy in the US, do you remember McGrath in that game he was carrying a very bad shoulder injury but he went out there and played one of his best games ever for Ireland, yes he had great ability but it was his passion and desire to win that day that gave him the extra edge.

IMO England as a team lack that passion and desire, the expectations are always huge but they never meet them, I can't ever remember watching an English game where every player gave 100% and played to or above his potential. Also as many others have said they never seem to get a manager who can get the best out of the team, I mean look at the team that played Wales yesterday, that formation was obviously only used so Wright-Phillips and Beckham could both start, Beckham is a nice footballer but you don't pick a team around your captain, you pick a captain from your best team.

Memnoch

British players are over hyped and over rated, especially in irish and british media, because of the english premiere league.

They have a number of "good" players, but they don't have 11 TOP players.

Look at the various positions... who is their main striker? owen? rooney? both capable of scoring goals no doubt? but world class? not a chance.

Compare them to someone like Robinho or ronaldo in his prime or shevchenko.

Then what about midfield? gerard? lampard? again both GOOD players. But lampard is severely over rated and gerard doesn't seem to always perform. David beckham has been over rated for a long long time.

What about the back four? Jamie Carraghar and John terry are good defenders. Though Terry is probably the only truly world class player in their back for line up.

What about goal keepers? Again they have some decent keepers, but no one who really stands out as being amazing.

So really they have maybe 1 or 2 amazing and 2-3 really GOOD players in their line up, but when comparing at an international level, their team isn't that good.

The only reason people THINK that it looks good on paper is because of the EPL and over hyping by local media.

PHB

What amazes me totally is how people can say Lampard is overrated.
The guy is arguably the prolific AMC in the world.
He has an ungodly scoring record.
Gerrard has shown he can preform in big games, and although he doesn't always show up, he is a big big game player which is what England need.
Beckham last night controlled the game perfectly, and his range of passing was utterly superb(anyone else think his legs are getting on and he is trying to rework himself as a DMC to further his career?)

The English back 4 is world class, utterly world class.
Neville Rio Terry Cole (with Campbell taking over Terry when fit)
All of those players would get into nearly any team in the world

But i think this is by far the best line:

Look at the various positions... who is their main striker? owen? rooney? both capable of scoring goals no doubt? but world class? not a chance.

Compare them to someone like Robinho or ronaldo in his prime or shevchenko.

I thought you were going to list the following players:
Henry, Van Nist, Shev, Ronaldo, Adriano
But you lash in there Robinho?
Why, what have you seen him do?
At most any of us have seen him play 5 times?
He is about as good as Rooney, a bit more prolific as he has been playing in a weak league, but thats about it.
Rooney is a wonderkid just like Robinho is
As for Owen, he is a world class goal poacher, one of the best in the world.

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1 or 2 amazing and 2-3 really GOOD players

Can you list me a team with more amazing players, and more really good players?
Keep in mind when you list Brazil and you say Adriano, Ronaldo, Kaka, Robinho, Baptista, Ronaldinho, Emerson, that if they all played, Brazil would be beaten by Ireland.

Villain

I'd have to agree with PHB here, England have a strong side from Robinson in goal right through to Owen and Rooney up front. Brazil have some amazing attacking players no doubt better than Englands, but most sides only 3 to 4 out and out attacking players, Brazil's defence is very weak compared to England's. 11 v 11 England on paper are as good as any side in the world.

Necronomicon

PHB wrote:

What amazes me totally is how people can say Lampard is overrated.
The guy is arguably the prolific AMC in the world.
He has an ungodly scoring record.

Agreed. He also holds the record for consecutive Premiership appearances. All you have to do is look at some of his performances last season, stand-out one for me being the game against Bayern Munich at Stamford Bridge when he scored twice, one with the terrific swivel and half-volley. The guy is world class.

Memnoch wrote:

Look at the various positions... who is their main striker? owen? rooney? both capable of scoring goals no doubt? but world class? not a chance.

:eek: Have you not seen Rooney play? One of the best youngsters to come out of world football in years. And Owen's record speaks for itself. One of the top scorers in the Premiership, and also prolific on the international stage.

Jivin Turkey

Memnoch wrote:

Look at the various positions... who is their main striker? owen? rooney? both capable of scoring goals no doubt? but world class? not a chance.

Compare them to someone like Robinho or ronaldo in his prime or shevchenko.

Its been pointed out twice already, but I have to concur with this being total garbage.

And I can't believe you used Robinho as an example.

It also speaks volume that the other two players you used to compare are two of the worlds best players of the nineties generation.

therecklessone

Memnoch wrote:

British players are over hyped and over rated, especially in irish and british media, because of the english premiere league.

They have a number of "good" players, but they don't have 11 TOP players.

Others will (and have) respond(ed) to your other points, but I'd like to dispel the myth that only teams with 11 top players can win tournaments.

France WC winners 1998, team from the final:

16. Barthez
15. Thuram
18. Leboeuf
8. Desailly - 67'
3. Lizarazu
6. Djorkaeff ***
7. Deschamps
19. Karembeu *
17. Petit
9. Guivarc'h **
10. Zidane

* Boghossian (56')
** Dugarry (65)
*** Vieira (75')

Germany WC wunners up 2002, final team:

1] KAHN Oliver (GK) (C)
[ 2] LINKE Thomas
[ 5] RAMELOW Carsten
[ 7] NEUVILLE Oliver
[ 8] HAMANN Dietmar [ 5]
[ 11] KLOSE Miroslav (-74')
[ 16] JEREMIES Jens (-77')
[ 17] BODE Marco (-84')
[ 19] SCHNEIDER Bernd
[ 21] METZELDER Christoph
[ 22] FRINGS Torsten

Substitutes:

[ 6] ZIEGE Christian (+84')
[ 14] ASAMOAH Gerald (+77')
[ 20] BIERHOFF Oliver (+74')


Greece, Euro 2004 winners:

Do I need to bother?

[Jackass]

Ironicly, Englands biggest problem is David Beckham. They've made him undroppable the amount they've built him up...for some absolutely ludicros desicion he's also their captain (J.Terry, R.Ferdinand, S. Gerrard, F. Lampard, W. Rooney, M. Owen are all in my estimation better options for captain than Becks).

Like i said in my previous post Beckhams limited abilitys at several crucial skills to play top leel football means he dosen't fit in a team as he needs protection all the time. This is perfectly displayed by SWP emergence...because Erikson can't drop him, and there's not enough room for him in the team...so now they have to drop one of their best players (rooney or owen) to facilitate him in the middle by basicly playing 4-4-1 and puttig beckham on the team sheet.

LoL, they are the cause of their own demise. Do they have a world cup winning team? Absolutely hilarious quesion. They are one of the weakest "major" football nations competeing..if they had a remotely difficult group they wouldn't even qualify.

If SGE gets some balls and drops becks for swp they will have a better team, but still have as much chance of winning the world cup as me winning the grand national aboard a donkey.

Just look at their performances over the last 2 years.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

[Jackass]

ziggy67 wrote:

Goalie. Looks the part, hasn't played in a major tournament yet though.

Defence. Isn't as good as the sum of its parts. Concede terrible goals from set pieces at major tournaments. Not helped by midfield. Ferdinand maybe lacking concentration??

Midfield. No balance, too many attacking players, too many players trying "Hollywood" passes instead of keeping possession, no competition for places i.e. certain players undroppable.

Attack. Strong with Owen & Rooney but lack depth with no other player having that much experience.

Manager. A guy who is letting the players decide who plays & in what formation. A joke, and at 4 million a year, an expensive joke.

Add to that a media which puts them under unbelievable pressure.
Also are some players really that good or they just hyped up?

Very good summary.....couldn't agree more.

tetsujin1979

ziggy67 wrote:

Can England win the World Cup? Yes it is possible.

Will they? I doubt it.

Goalie. Looks the part, hasn't played in a major tournament yet though.

Defence. Isn't as good as the sum of its parts. Concede terrible goals from set pieces at major tournaments. Not helped by midfield. Ferdinand maybe lacking concentration??

Midfield. No balance, too many attacking players, too many players trying "Hollywood" passes instead of keeping possession, no competition for places i.e. certain players undroppable.

Attack. Strong with Owen & Rooney but lack depth with no other player having that much experience.

Manager. A guy who is letting the players decide who plays & in what formation. A joke, and at 4 million a year, an expensive joke.

Add to that a media which puts them under unbelievable pressure & a Spain-esque ability to somehow never do as well as they maybe should.
Also are some players really that good or they just hyped up?

Pretty much on the money, although to be fair to Ferdinand he did seem to be the only player in defence when Wales started to push forward in the last 10-15 minutes, Carragher was absent, Cole and Young were both repeatedly exposed.

Davey Devil

World Cup, your 'aving a laugh.

Finally you England fanboys will believe me.

Over paid, over hyped, overrated.

World Cup me arse.

Pepe LeFrits

I don't believe any differently than I did yesterday. England have some great players but a piss-poor manager. Beckham as a holding midfielder, Sven truly is a genius.

jubbly

HAHAHAHA :D What cheered me up was seeing norn iron winning last night. I dont support the loyalist regime but its always good to see Ingerland lose

I posted earlier that England have good players but will never win anything because they never play for each other, never pick the right team and always have a poor manager. Its a pathetic joke. Hilarious stuff:D:D:D

At best england can make second is that right ?

Necronomicon

jubbly wrote:

At best england can make second is that right ?

I think so....? As far as I know Poland are through. But if England win the last two games they'll qualify as one of the highest runners-up and avoid the playoffs.

Jivin Turkey

England can easily still top the group. All they have to do is beat Poland at home.

Even if they dont they will still qualify automatically.

eirebhoy

Jivin Turkey wrote:

England can easily still top the group. All they have to do is beat Poland at home.

Even if they dont they will still qualify automatically.

If they win their 2 games left they win the group. If they don't they finish 2nd but I doubt they'll qualify automatically. That will leave them on a maximum of 23 points. Croatia/Sweden are all but guaranteed a best 2nd place. If the Czech's win their last 2 games their guaranteed automatic qualification. If England finish 2nd they'll will have to go through a playoff imo.

tetsujin1979

According to this - http://www.uefa.com/competitions/WorldCup/news/Kind=1/newsId=336912.html - it's between Group 1,6 and 8.
England are by no means guaranteed an automatic spot

Jivin Turkey

As it stands England are in the top two 2nd placed teams having only dropped five points. The Czechs have dropped six.

The Czech also have an on-fire Holland to play. England have two home games. Croatia look likely to bag the other sport IMO.

I think England will top their group with Poland and Croatia getting the other two automatic places.

PHB

Once England drop either Lampard/Gerrard, they can win the world cup.
Until the English Media realise this, they have no chance

A Dub in Glasgo

Win the World Cup? ROFL

Have I entered the Twlight Zone?