Points

Borderfox

I was caught by the van on St John's Road around Heuston station sneaky f**ck's had it parked in behind a warehouse. I thought I braked enough but not so. 50kmh limit my arse..... I can't believe it..! can you just ignore them without the computer system?

Bluetonic

Borderfox wrote:

I was caught by the van on St John's Road around Heuston station sneaky f**ck's had it parked in behind a warehouse. I thought I braked enough but not so. 50kmh limit my arse..... I can't believe it..! can you just ignore them without the computer system?

Whats the problem here? You were speeding. It's not like it's unknown that there are penalty points for offences related to speeding.

Take the points and get on with your day. Stop trying to weasel out of it.

I tell you if you knocked down and killed someone doing 1km over the limit you'd have the book thrown at you.

Junior

Bluetonic wrote:

Whats the problem here? You were speeding. It's not like it's unknown that there are penalty points for offences related to speeding.

Take the points and get on with your day. Stop trying to weasel out of it.

I tell you if you knocked down and killed someone doing 1km over the limit you'd have the book thrown at you.

It must be tough breathing up there on the moral high ground eh ?

Wibbs

Borderfox, first thing you should do is insist on a printout/photo from the radar/laser gun as evidence. If they have that, then all you can do I'm afraid is pay your speed tax and live and learn.

In my case I got the notification in the post 3 months after the event. I didn't get points in the end as I fought it on the truthful basis that on the date of the alleged speeding my car was off the road, parked in my driveway for a week. The fact that the speeding was supposed to have happened on my road and it would have required the services of the starship enterprise to reach the speed I was said to have done helped my case considerably. Something similar happened to a good friend of mine around the same time and he also got his speeding conviction dropped. Far be it from me to suggest that the garda can act inappropriately, but if they don't have the printout don't pay the fine. Both myself and my friend complained to the garda about this, but as you can imagine sfa was done about it.

BTW If people speed in a built up area, they deserve all they get. I just object to the revenue generating/easy target aspect that seems to be part of the whole speeding fine agenda.

Bluetonic

Junior wrote:

It must be tough breathing up there on the moral high ground eh ?

No it's not.

Simple fact of the matter is if the OP was speeding then they should be willing to accept the points.

You tell me why they should (if you think they do) have a right to get away with it?

Borderfox

Thanks for the advice Wibbs.

Bluetonic stick your view right up your A**E.

I was only looking for advice you moron. Where the van was it was purely a revenue gathering operation.... :mad:

Seth Brundle

1. It is a 50km limit dual carriageway road with footpath bus lane IIRC. There is a central barrier for most of it but also where they park there is a crossover to allow taxis turn back towards Hueston, etc. You will also often see motorcycle gardai with hairdriers on the opposite side catching people coming inbound.
2. The talivan is frequently there morning, afternoon and evening! They really are sneaky IMO. They do hide so that they remain unseen until you are in their line of sight. This does little to help discourage speeding. They should be working on a preventative logic, not a punitive one.
3. The road is capable of higher speeds IMO and it can often be difficult to keep within the 50kmph limit without staring constantly at your speedo.
4. @Bluetonic - have you never sped? As I already said, it can be extremely easy to his 60 or 70kmph driving in traffic. Should drivers be more concentrating more on what speed they are driving at (within reason) or on driving safely?

Wibbs

kbannon wrote:

This does little to help discourage speeding. They should be working on a preventative logic, not a punitive one.

Nail on head kbannon, nail on head. Of course they should be concentrating on preventative measures, but that neither generates revenue/convictions, is hard to quantify and thus accordingly it's not politically expedient. Logical, yes, but since when did logic enter the debate when there's revenue to be had and political soundbites to be spouted. By our collective experiences, the gauleiters "in charge" of our transport policies couldn't organise a falling down competition among one legged men on tightropes, so what makes anyone think they'll tackle this problem any better.

Borzoi

Borderfox wrote:

Thanks for the advice Wibbs.

No need for the personal abuse, one week ban.

I'm leaving this thread open, but I suspect it will go the way of so many points related threads - angels on one side, demon drivers on the other

Wibbs

Borzoi wrote:

Originally Posted by Borderfox
Thanks for the advice Wibbs.

No need for the personal abuse, one week ban.

If that's abuse I'm gonna visit this forum way more often. The abuse I get elsewhere, ya wouldn't credit.........

Guy:Incognito

kbannon wrote:

They do hide so that they remain unseen until you are in their line of sight. This does little to help discourage speeding.?

Does it not discourage people from speeding round blind corners? How can the van ever be sneaky regardless of where they put it? The speed limit is posted on signs for everyone to read. Everyone knows that if they go over this they are liable for a fine/points, yet complain when they are caught.

People complain about having to pay road tax, but yet they pay it, whereas when its somethign potentially dangerous like speeding people are up in arms because the gardai have the gaul to catch them.

Ask yourselves this people, if your child ran out on the road, was hit by a car and killed , would you then let it lie if you found out the person was doing 35 in a 30 zone or would you want them prosecuted?

kbannon wrote:

Should drivers be more concentrating more on what speed they are driving at (within reason) or on driving safely?

Is know what speed your doing not part of driving safely?


I will freely admit to not sticking by the speed limit half the time, but I'm not going to go whinging when I'm caught. I did get a ticket pre-points and knew I was in the wrong so paid the fine (after trying to convince my dad it was him driving at the time )

Seth Brundle

I don't believe staring at the speedo is good driving practice. people are far better off concentrating on what is around them. I know that knowing your speed is part of driving safely but in busy moving traffic then it is not as straightforward.
However, my point was that it is an easy road for them to catch people exceeding the speed limit. However, this is a relatively safe road and it could be possible to raise this limit (IMO). The resources spent on catching people on this road would be better spent catching speeding offences elsewhere such as along the quays or somewhere where there is a real risk of injury to other road users.

Regarding complaining, I don't have any difficulty with getting caught. I do have difficulty with the methods by which most people are caught. I have no points as yet but will accept them if Im caught. However, if Im caught it will have been in what I percieve to be a safe situation.
I do also disagree with the various motor taxes so that comment doesn't really apply to me.

Lastly, you criticise people for trying to get off yet you admit to trying to blame your father????

unkel

kbannon wrote:

it can be extremely easy to his 60 or 70kmph driving in traffic. Should drivers be more concentrating more on what speed they are driving at (within reason) or on driving safely?

Doing 50km/h out there on the dual carriageway and I'm usually the only one...

And I don't always remember so it could very well me next with me first points

And the solution is so simple. When they increased the speed limit from 60km/h to 80km/h on the N4 between the M50 and the M4, all traffic immediately started to drive around the 80km/h mark. I guess the main reason is that speeders previously doing >100km/h (you might as well if you're going to speed - penalty is the same as doing 70km/h) now recognise the new limit is reasonable

Throughflow is much improved as is safety. The gatso vans are gone as they are no longer required for safety reasons and they wouldn't generate much revenue either. Winwin for all

Seth Brundle

unkel wrote:

Doing 50km/h out there on the dual carriageway and I'm usually the only one...

...as do I but I tend to speed up slightly once I pass their usual haunt. I don't regard myself as driving dangerously on this dual carriageway when I do speed up as I don't believe my speed is excessive - I feel Im driving at a speed (sometimes up to ~60-70kms depending on conditions) suitable for the stretch of road. There are very few pedestrians along here and it is unlikely one of them will run out in front of me (especially if Im in the overtaking lane!). Also I tend to keep an eye out for cyclists and other vulnerable road users and I don't think Im suddenly going to run one down due to my speed.

Going back to my point about the current system being punishment based rather than preventative, I see Martin Cullen wants the private cameras "to be clearly visible and located in accident blackspots" (from here) - something which the current system is not doing!

Rodney Trotter

You'll notice the OP failed to state his actual speed when caught. If he was slowing down, and was still caught, then it's highly probable he was well over the limit and rightly caught.


Anyway, with a handle like "Borderfox" he deserves to be hunted down and punished. Anything glorifying Dessie O'Hare is shamefull.


(P.S. There is a way around the system, but I ain't telling!)

Seth Brundle

Rodney Trotter wrote:

(P.S. There is a way around the system, but I ain't telling!)

not fair!

unkel

Rodney Trotter wrote:

(P.S. There is a way around the system, but I ain't telling!)

A few years in Templemore and you'll be peno points free for life

theShire

I'm currently driving a nice Jap import and since changing to it from my 1.4 Astra back in June- I rarely, if ever, feel the need to speed! It's a total contradiction to the way I was just a few months back- I used to push the Astra to her limits and now with my Levin I can drive on the Dual carriageways at 95km/hr no probs, same on any of the lower limits, very rarely do i break them.

BUt yeah, I do agree that if you are prepared to blatently break the limits and get caught then you deserve the points! Whereas I do feel that there are a hell of a lot of stretches with undeserved limits, breaking it by 1 or 2km/hr should be a warning or reduced points. The one thing that I love(-NOT) about the revised spped limits are the secondary roads that were always the full limit and now are the 80km/hr when some of them have better stretches than some of our main roads.

Seth Brundle

unkel wrote:

A few years in Templemore and you'll be peno points free for life

Im noit sure if this is the case. I think if the automated systems (gatsos,etc.) get a garda then they can't get off. I stand to be corrected though.

ismynametoolong

The truth is they changed to KPH asked for submissions and listened to nobody ! I have seen boreens with grass down the centre and 80KPH signs
madness , and then we have what i would call major protected roads with no kids playing by the side and the limit is 50KPH and dont tell me other wise the speed enforcement on these roads in purely revenue generating .Its a simple fact most deaths that-happen on our roads are caused by single vehicle incidents on B roads in the early hours , This is what they should be policeing
How many cars will be parked in pub car parks around the country tonight and every other night are they all tea totalers ,Dont get me wrong i did it for many years so no high moral ground here .

RicardoSmith

The rules are the rules, but if the rules are inappropriate then they should be challenged. Personally I object to speed traps on roads with speed limits set to low. I also object to doing it where theres a low risk. We have people doing 70-80mph through housing estates but yet I've very rarely see any speed traps there. But theres one on bigger safer roads on a regular basis.

Kinetic^

Borderfox wrote:

Bluetonic stick your view right up your A**E.

I couldnt be happier that this guy got banned, he asked for advice and then he couldnt take on board what was said to him.

Rodney Trotter wrote:

(P.S. There is a way around the system, but I ain't telling!)

Not sure if i should post this, if i'm not allowed I'll take it off. Is that the whole getting a northern ireland licence and putting them onto that??

Seth Brundle

The UK/NI licence may not work as if you are caught speeding in a car here (presumably an Irish regd. car!) then your points are kept until there is a cross border system.
Im not sure, but I believe that these points will last for 3 years from when they are applied to the licence.
Hypothetically, if the systems integrated in 20 years time (possibly a realistic timeframe!), a NI licenced driver who was caught speeding once every 3 years over the twenty years could find themselves off the road straight away.

Wibbs

Is prevention not better than cure? It seems not to judge by the current "safety" campaign.

If the powers that be really wanted to reduce road deaths they'd have regular random garda checkpoints on roads to and from pubs at the weekends. They'd increase driver education and the requirements for getting a license in the first place. They'd erect clearly visible gatsos in accident blackspots and built up areas. A complete review of speed limits throughout the land wouldn't exactly go amiss either as ismynametoolong highlighted.

Will they do this? Don't hold your breath. In fact if you do, you may find yourself going from blue to white to green in the face, finally ending up an underground resident of glasnevin, before some semblance of logic is brought to bear on this issue.

Before anyone bleats "it's the law", as RicardoSmith has pointed out there are stupid interpretations of the law and even more stupid enforcements of same. There's a world of difference between doing 110KPH in a 100KPH zone on a main road and doing 40KPH in a 30KPH zone in a residential area. Which one are you more likely to get points on? Which one is more likely to result in convictions and resultant revenue? I for one don't want to see our police force viewed as another arm of the tax office.

Seth Brundle

furthermore, irrespective, holding NI licenced drivers points until the systems integrate does not allow those drivers to explain their innocence. How would you remember whether it was you/your other half/someone else/a garda error driving over the limit a good few years ago?

Kinetic^

Wibbs wrote:

Before anyone bleats "it's the law", as RicardoSmith has pointed out there are stupid interpretations of the law and even more stupid enforcements of same. There's a world of difference between doing 110KPH in a 100KPH zone on a main road and doing 40KPH in a 30KPH zone in a residential area. Which one are you more likely to get points on? Which one is more likely to result in convictions and resultant revenue? I for one don't want to see our police force viewed as another arm of the tax office.

very true Wibbs. I got 2 penalty points on the N4 at 5 in the morning doing 73mph in a 50mph zone, caught by a fixed camera at that. So had i being doing 51mph, i was still getting done coz its fixed. Now there was nobody else on the road so it made me really f*cking angry but at the end of the day i was speeding and there was nothing i could do but accept it. I've had them 2 years, so hopefully I'll last another year and they'll be cleared off my licence.

blastman

Does anyone think that we will end up like England, where there are so many fixed cameras that almost everyone has points and it will be just another driving hazard?

Kinetic^

blastman wrote:

Does anyone think that we will end up like England, where there are so many fixed cameras that almost everyone has points and it will be just another driving hazard?

I thought that its being privatised and that there are going to be about 600 cameras around ireland. No doubt that we'll get the locations of these within a few weeks of it being operational but then you've to deal with hairdryers too so IMO, i would say yes to your question above (if i'm right in saying its being privatised).

Seth Brundle

Incidentally, how many reports and interviews about the privitisation have you come across where there wasn't a reference to the expected €70m generated in the first year?

Wibbs

kbannon wrote:

Incidentally, how many reports and interviews about the privitisation have you come across where there wasn't a reference to the expected €70m generated in the first year?

The nub of the matter, methinks. Doubtless the money will be ploughed back into drivers education, road repair or pink fluffy rabbits..... Hell will freeze over and satan will be skating to work when that happens.

I agree that we'll probably go down the way of the UK, but without the better roads obviously. I love the way this country always takes the more daft UK models in situations like these. Answer them better to give us the road network and infrastructure we have paid for and deserve as a modern nation, than to target minor speed infringments in stupidly restricted roads, while failing to tackle real issues like drink driving, uninsured drivers, [insert the obvious here].

RicardoSmith

In England driving is a real chore with all the camera's. Because the limits again change constantly and you never really know what the speed limits are unless you know an area really well.