Will New Orleans be abandoned/politics of Huricane Katrina [mega merged thread]

mike65

My mother wondered out loud how this would have been handled if the Hamptons had been hit...Good question but maybe a fascile one to. The Gulf coast has always been a poor backwater. Oil and tourism is all they've had and the former is much less an employer than once was the case. Now its casinos which is a good indicator of how bad things are. Meanwhile it does'nt help when the population is routinly armed...

Just wait for the environmental impact study - the ground water will be un-useable for months maybe longer.

Mike.

Flukey

Hobbes wrote:

Bush was just on TV. trying to get the speech as I missed a bit of it but from what I heard the US is running out of oil?!

Not to worry, they can increase their troops in Iraq. I am sure the terrorists were actually responsible for Katrina.:rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

mike65 wrote:

Karl is that a philosophical thought or just a silly off the cuff one?

Silly off the cuff one really, but possibly some truth to it, the US did spend a lot of money on the war on terrer.

UU wrote:

"War on Terror"

No no, it's "Terrer" in Bush speak.

iguana

MrPudding wrote:

Given that George is very religious and in charge and storms are considered to be an act of God, is this not an indication that God is not happy with something George has done?

MrP

The last earthquake in Seattle happened the day after Bush decided to cut funding to the US's earthquake preparation programme. I don't think this is the first time a divine being has tried to send him a message.

when was there an earthquake in seattle?did you see clinton and the two bushes on tv?this is the 2nd time they have all been on tv together this year

on a related note!does anybody like watching fox news for the comedy value?bill o reilly is seriosly screwed up!

Victor

Building bigger dams won't work. They've been doing it for 150 years and the Mississipi still overflows regularly.

The Mississipi is 100 miles shorter now than it was 150 years ago. That gives the river so much less space to absorb floods.

The Dutch trick is to have areas that are temporarily floodable to protect urban areas in the event of a surge.

Before and after photos http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/new-orleans-imagery.htm

hey victor!did yo like up your post count by 2000 in last2months?impressive

billy the squid

heres a curious article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090101542.html

Condy Rice states in one paragraph that any offers that will alleviate the suffering of those affected by the hurricane, will not be refused.

But, they HAVE refused assistance from Russia, why?

interesting list of doner countries too

Offers have been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States, the spokesman said.

Lambsbread

I honestly think time will tell. They are under real pressure to get the current mess sorted and more hurricanes are expected before the end of the season. Another bad hit on NO in its current state could sway a few politiical minds. Could end up being "The lost city of New Orleans". But i wouldn'k like to see that happen.

Victor

Will New Orleans be abandoned?

Hasn't it already been abandoned?

Deleted User wrote:

hey victor!did yo like up your post count by 2000 in last2months?impressive

Off topic, banned.

turkster

Talking of abondoning these guys seems to be sticking it out .

They are continuing to run a datacentre on the 10th floor of a skyscraper in New Orleans. Not surprisingly security seems to be there biggest worry at the moment.

Blog from the Datacentre:

It is a zoo out there though, make no mistake. It's the wild kingdom. It's Lord of the Flies. That doesn't mean there's murder on every street corner. But what it does mean is that the rule of law has collapsed, that there is no order, and that property rights cannot and are not being enforced. Anyone who is on the streets is in immediate danger of being robbed and killed. It's that bad.

shotamoose

Scary stuff indeed

turnback

Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com

P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them before they get to DC on September 21st.

murphaph

From looking at the lunchtime news, it seems many of the city's police officers have just resigned. They have no home and presumably see no point in getting shot in the streets as law and order collapses. This is the last thing they need right now.

The more footage of the devastation that I see, the less I think the city will return to normal. The focus of government will be on repairing the oil refineries along the gulf coast, not the city of NO itself.

The longer the water lingers-the more damage it will do. Much of the city's power supply and telecomms infrastructure will be destroyed, so what's going to be left? Some freeways and some concrete buildings (but even they're badly damaged). Everything else is ruined.

simu

There's an interesting bog here from a guy who has stayed in NO. It's amazing how quickly law and order broke down. Is this inevitable in such a situation or was it facilitated by pre-existing social tensions, I wonder?

Sarsfield

I've been to NO a few times but not recently. It was a fantastic place. This is really sad.

New Orleans was always a city on the edge of disorder, with a lot of poverty and violence. The local PD never had the best reputation either. I'm not at all surprised at the complete berakdown of law and order.

As for the future, New Orleans is poor, black and democrat. I worry where its population will find itself on Washington's priority list having to compete with oil refineries and Iraq. And GWB hasn't exactly shown himself to be an outstanding crisis manager anyway.

Whatever happens I don't think NO will ever be the same again.

sceptre

Turnback's thread merged with this one.

murphaph

Even the BBC's normall fairly dispassionate reporters are clearly incensed by the lack of a response by the federal government. It seems shooting would be looters are top priority, ahead of evacuating the people left there, or even feeding them!

As has been said-the citizens of NO aren't gonna be big GOP fans, so why bother worryin about them while GOP donor owned refineries need repairs?!

simu

murphaph wrote:

Even the BBC's normall fairly dispassionate reporters are clearly incensed by the lack of a response by the federal government. It seems shooting would be looters are top priority, ahead of evacuating the people left there, or even feeding them!

As has been said-the citizens of NO aren't gonna be big GOP fans, so why bother worryin about them while GOP donor owned refineries need repairs?!

It's still looks bad in the eyes of the rest of the country though that one little section has gone out of control like that.

It won't ever be the same again - I think they probably will attempt to rebuild it but I don't imagine it will ever reach its former population level again. (Reminds me of Sim City disasters, strangely enough).

murphaph

murphaph wrote:

Even the BBC's normall fairly dispassionate reporters are clearly incensed by the lack of a response by the federal government. It seems shooting would be looters are top priority, ahead of evacuating the people left there, or even feeding them!

Pretty Damning coverage on the main U.S networks today and yesterday.They were showing the people shouting Help...help...help... etc and asking where the help was.
Gov Blanco got grilled this morning on CNN and the other networks too and looked hopeless with no answers to the obvious questions.
The anchors were saying this isnt somalia that you are looking at, it's the southern states of the U.S.A

The only place where I havent seen much criticism is on fox news but that only gets to a small percentage of homes compared to the nightly news on the main networks.

murphaph

simu wrote:

(Reminds me of Sim City disasters, strangely enough).

I was thinkin exactly the same. It's very eery.

Zombrex

Hobbes wrote:

Oddly enough one of the studies done was called just that.

According to news stories turned out FEMA warned him of this in 2001 in the same report he was warned of possible terrorist attacks in NYC.

Can't wait to see how he is going to spin this.

I remember seeing a doc on Discovery years ago that said N.O was an accident waiting to happen. They were talking about global warming raising sea level, and it was a bit of a Doomsday type program that you got around 2000 (like the Yellow Stone Park super volcano exploding that was the topic of many a "oh my god we are all going to die" type Horizon episode), but it is still chilling to see that eventually the worst things do happen.

How anyone in the US Government or local government, going back far beyond Bush, can be surprised at this is beyond me. Since the draining of the lands in the early 20th century, it has been a disaster waiting to happen.

Sponge Bob

In the Following Article from October 2004 National Geographic describe the current events in New Orleans with uncanny precision .

http://205.188.130.53/ngm/0410/feature5/index.html

It was a broiling August afternoon in New Orleans, Louisiana, the Big Easy, the City That Care Forgot. Those who ventured outside moved as if they were swimming in tupelo honey. Those inside paid silent homage to the man who invented air-conditioning as they watched TV "storm teams" warn of a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico. Nothing surprising there: Hurricanes in August are as much a part of life in this town as hangovers on Ash Wednesday.

As the whirling maelstrom approached the coast, more than a million people evacuated to higher ground. Some 200,000 remained, however—the car-less, the homeless, the aged and infirm, and those die-hard New Orleanians who look for any excuse to throw a party.

The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea level—more than eight feet below in places—so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city, people climbed onto roofs to escape it.

Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.
When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet.

And yes, it was predicted and yes something could have been done about it and yes the myriad facts behind the National Geographic article were known long before 2004 .

Its creepy reading it after the fact though .

Sponge Bob

The US better lash together a coalition of the willing for the " War On Water " .

Coe Condoleeza (Canute) Rice on shuttle diplomacy duty , I'd say Bertie will sign up to the coalition this time

soma

turkster wrote:

Talking of abondoning these guys seems to be sticking it out .

when i read comments on that blog like.....

One of the first things I do in the morning after my intitial security sweep of the building..

..When Bravo Team becomes functional this morning, we're going to do a Medium Range Recon Patrol around our section of the CBD. We need to access the area for potential human threats, situational threats (burning buildings, etc.), flooding, potential evac routes, military and civilian authority presence, etc.

.....is it just me or is this guy at least partially trying to live out some sort of rambo daydream scenario!?

Hobbes

Sponge Bob wrote:

Coe Condoleeza (Canute) Rice on shuttle diplomacy duty

I don't think she would want to get her new shoes dirty.

http://www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/index.php#breaking-condi-rice-spends-salary-on-shoes-123467

soma

By the way, all this constant talk of, and focus on, New Orleans by the media is apparently driving citizens in other areas batty.. they are feeling just as vulnerable (with the possible exception of the violence) but utterly forgotten.

murphaph

I think I saw the guy who wrote that being interviewed on CH4 news the night before last. Young enough Dr. of something-or-other, a New Orleanian himself. It's an uncanny likeness to what's transpired, but he said himself-any idiot could have predicted it was going to happen. Not much solice to the poor ba$tards left reeling in the wake of this calamity.

billy the squid

There was an excersise done in July 2004, a hypothetical storm was created called hurricane Pam .

The upgrade of the levees would have cost an estimated $225,000,000. to re-inforce the dam, but the money was "needed elswhere"

by trying to acquire someone elses oil in the middle east, they ended up loosing quarter of their own oil at home.

Praetorian

To the OP. They won't abandon NO. That's a silly idea propagated by some idiot in the media. They'll rebuild the damaged areas, and they'll build much bigger levies. Life will eventually return to normal, but they’ll always remember!