Will New Orleans be abandoned/politics of Huricane Katrina [mega merged thread]

Davei141

Im not making excuses for him, you seem to think that government consists of george bush and george bush alone. Bush has advisors, every decision he makes he does it with 10 people around him. To blame him solely is just plain wrong, he makes decisions on information and the administration.

There is one thing building the cat5 levee. The point is that Bush cut funding to the program to repair them. He also cut funding to a flooding program (similar to Holland) which would of redirected the flooding. He also sent the engineers off to Iraq. Lastly a congressman complaining of these actions he let go.

Yes they are in a war, the resources are stretched too the max. And he cant just cut funding for anything he pleases, obviously other people agreed to the cut, otherwise it wouldnt of happened.

Actually they did put on buses for evacuation. The poor and homeless were told to go to the convention center. The airlines (prior to shutting down) you couldn't buy a ticket for your soul.
There is some other crap coming to light. Turns out a nursing home for the elderly locked all the old people into the building and then the staff left town.

So they put out buses for people that didnt need them? the poor and homeless were asked to go to the convention centre, what on earth were the buses for? Nursing home locked the patients in and just left town? pull the other one please..

He has clearly shown lack of leadership. I mean wtf did people vote him in for? To smile a lot?

He has shown lack of leadership, public speaking has never been his strong point.

I agree it takes time. So why then did Bush not authorise this aid until September the 2nd? (Note: The bill is freely visible on the net) Why not like Clinton did he not authorise the aid as soon as he knew the hurricane was going to be serious?

This wasnt going to make everyone stop looting gun stores and put extra troops in the city faster, you agreed it takes time, taking control of a city and feeding them while people running about with guns is not easy.

While the city was flooding Bush did a photo-op and took in some golf while on holiday. Condi took in a show and bought some shoes. Compare that to Clinton who quit his holiday prior to a hurricane hitting to ensure everyone was ok.
Now you can go on about "They needed time to know", hes the fuking president of the USA and the whole world knew New Orleans was in trouble the day of the hurricane. Yet it somehow takes him days to realise the gravity of the situation. Is anybody actually briefing him? Does he even look at the news?

Theres no doubting he scored a massive own goal.

Not really, unless Bush plans to cut the funding of the craft each year and then ship the people working on it off to Iraq.

Yes they are in a war, the sitaution isnt perfect in the slightest, its a disaster and id wish people would stop their all too familiar anti bush crap, atleast wait till the place is evacuated and on the mend before sticking the knife in.

I've also read the wording of Bushes "Aid Package". It is a bit vague but from what I can tell 50% of the 10 billion funds can be redirected to other projects not related to the Hurricane disaster.

Yeah we are going to hear stories how bush went on a holiday with 5 billion dollars or he spent it in iraq.

I think the Bush admin should be ashamed. After giving a disgustingly small amount of aid to the victims of the tsunami they now are asking the EU for funds!

Errr hello? they sent troops and vehicles, helicopters not just money. You see its not a "who gives the most wins" contest, you know?
They actually rejected the aid out of arrogance(We can fix it ourselves go away type of nonsense), so i dont know where you got them asking for money from? And why if they do change their minds why shouldnt others help?

Maybe if he wasn't spending all the money on the war on terror he could afford to actually look after the country.

Its true this administration are rubbish with money.

Nothing but bad things have happened since his presidency began.

Also true but he did have to deal with the biggest terrorist attack in america ever, and the americans wanted blood.

Lets not also forget, during a telethon looking for donations kanye west went on a ramble calling bush a racist and ruined the fecking thing by hijacking it with his bull****, it was suppose to help the people and he couldnt resist a taking a shot, keep it in mind. Wonder how many would be posting if there wasnt a person for a finger to be point at. I would like to see the evacuation and the city rebuilt better and stronger than ever. People in the news keep saying "why did it take 5 days?", and theyre about as qualified to comment on it as circus midget.

mike65

The police have just shot dead several contractors in a firefight on a bridge. It seems they were mistaken for looters.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politics/12562184.htm

Mike.

Hobbes

Davei141 wrote:

Im not making excuses for him, you seem to think that government consists of george bush and george bush alone. Bush has advisors, every decision he makes he does it with 10 people around him. To blame him solely is just plain wrong, he makes decisions on information and the administration.

I bolded the part. As you say decisions he makes! He didn't make any. Either he is ignoring his advisors or his advisors are totally incompentant. As for the administration, it is Bushes as well.

obviously other people agreed to the cut, otherwise it wouldnt of happened.

As I said, the congressman (Rep) who was in charge of the situation complained and said Bush was making a mistake was let go.

Nursing home locked the patients in and just left town? pull the other one please..

Actually it was on Sky news earlier, I'll see if I can dig the story out for you online (This has 2 line mention). There are numerous similar reports of the elderly just being left behind either in homes or nursing homes.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/49380.html#cutid1
http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_nolaview/archives/2005_09.html
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/home/orl-canemain0405sep04,0,5504015.story?coll=orl-shoppinghg-headlinesforthe

(loads more via google)

Yeah we are going to hear stories how bush went on a holiday with 5 billion dollars or he spent it in iraq.

That is the best you can come up with as a rebuttal? Read the dam bill. It earmarks 5 billion which can be allowed to be used (at the DoD discretion) on other areas. If it is found to not be hurricane related it is optional if they pay it back into the fund or not.

People in the news keep saying "why did it take 5 days?", and theyre about as qualified to comment on it as circus midget.

Actually they are asking, not commenting. They should be saying why did it take 8 days because the Bush administation are saying now they had everything in place 3 days before the Hurricane hit. Currently from those who made it to safety there has been on average 10+ people dying daily from the effects of waiting for help.

Also true but he did have to deal with the biggest terrorist attack in america ever, and the americans wanted blood.

Yes, lets not forget the whole killing the funding for a team that were investigating OBL and attempting to capture/kill him. This was when Bush came into power. Or lets forget about the memo he didn't read because the title was misleading called "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the U.S.,".

Hobbes

mike65 wrote:

The police have just shot dead several contractors in a firefight on a bridge. It seems they were mistaken for looters.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politics/12562184.htm

Mike.

Couldn't get your link to work (Story has been deleted). Heres another.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Hurricane_Katrina/0,,2-10-1942_1765151,00.html

Also on Sky News earlier a guy flagging down a military truck to get help for a woman who was being raped at the convention center was shot and killed.

*Edit. Seeing other reports that no contractors were killed. (earlier stories say this)

Davei141

Hobbes wrote:

I bolded the part. As you say decisions he makes! He didn't make any. Either he is ignoring his advisors or his advisors are totally incompentant. As for the administration, it is Bushes as well.

If no decisions were made then id say incompetence on both sides, but i dont think that they would let the president NOT make any decisions.

As I said, the congressman (Rep) who was in charge of the situation complained and said Bush was making a mistake was let go.

That was a disgrace, i agree. But if he cut funding for things without any proper challenge then thats just wrong. I know congress is mostly republican but if more than just that guy stood up it wouldnt be easy to boot them all out.

Actually it was on Sky news earlier, I'll see if I can dig the story out for you online (This has 2 line mention). There are numerous similar reports of the elderly just being left behind either in homes or nursing homes.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/49380.html#cutid1
http://www.nola.com/weblogs/nola/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_nolaview/archives/2005_09.html
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/home/orl-canemain0405sep04,0,5504015.story?coll=orl-shoppinghg-headlinesforthe

(loads more via google)

I wasnt saying there wasnt a story, far from it, im just saying the amount of unconfirmed and conflicting rubbish thats being spit out is rediculous.

That is the best you can come up with as a rebuttal? Read the dam bill. It earmarks 5 billion which can be allowed to be used (at the DoD discretion) on other areas. If it is found to not be hurricane related it is optional if they pay it back into the fund or not.

If it wasnt used it would be a PR disaster that would possibley hand the democrats the next presidential election, i cant see it happening. Yes my rebuttal was pathetic, Ill read the bill tomorrow as i got school in the morning.

Actually they are asking, not commenting. They should be saying why did it take 8 days because the Bush administation are saying now they had everything in place 3 days before the Hurricane hit. Currently from those who made it to safety there has been on average 10+ people dying daily from the effects of waiting for help.

Theyre asking like they know it shouldnt take that long, skynews had some clown talking about dunkirk and all the army needed was some boats to save everybody. Even when they got an "expert" he said he would not be able to say if it should of took that long.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Anderson-Cooper-Landrieu-Katrina1.wmv
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Anderson-Cooper-Landrieu-Katrina.mov

Listen to them, a journalist tried to put them under pressure and make them seem like theyre failures and they still gave him a proper answer. One of them even lost his own home.

Yes, lets not forget the whole killing the funding for a team that were investigating OBL and attempting to capture/kill him. This was when Bush came into power. Or lets forget about the memo he didn't read because the title was misleading called "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the U.S.,".

He ****ed up yes, id talk about it more but its sailing off topic.

Couldn't get your link to work (Story has been deleted). Heres another.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/...1765151,00.html

Also on Sky News earlier a guy flagging down a military truck to get help for a woman who was being raped at the convention center was shot and killed.

*Edit. Seeing other reports that no contractors were killed. (earlier stories say this)

Thats why im sceptical to say the very least about the nursing home story. Some woman in N.O when asked about the murder and rape said there was no such thing. Another said she seen a girl and boy the age of 7 raped and the rapist was flung off a balcony to his death. She also said women went to the toilets in groups of 5 out of the fear of being attacked, thats pretty conflicting.

Hobbes

Davei141 wrote:

If no decisions were made then id say incompetence on both sides, but i dont think that they would let the president NOT make any decisions.

Still doesn't explain what happened.

That was a disgrace, i agree. But if he cut funding for things without any proper challenge then thats just wrong. I know congress is mostly republican but if more than just that guy stood up it wouldnt be easy to boot them all out.

Thats not how a government (or any business) should be run. You should not be in fear of loosing your job just because you are questioning a leaders actions. You just end up with a load of yes men. Safety in numbers leads to a piss poor government as well.

I wasnt saying there wasnt a story, far from it, im just saying the amount of unconfirmed and conflicting rubbish thats being spit out is rediculous.

They showed the skynews report again this morning.

Theyre asking like they know it shouldnt take that long

Well once the national guard were finally rolling it took a total of three days. Prior to that no help at all. Even people at the convention center were saying that they had to stay there for evacuation buses but the buses drove by for 3 days.

He ****ed up yes, id talk about it more but its sailing off topic.

Its not that really off topic at all. He recieved the report about New Orleans in the same briefing as 9/11 brief. You are going on about an attack on US soil he had to put up with, his actions prior to it helped make the attack easier, just like his actions helped make this disaster worse then it could of been.

After watching some more about the only one who looks genuine in "they fuked up, lets do something right" is Rice. Watched her on TV and she wasn't playing pass the blame or saying that "they never knew this would happen". About the only one that looked like she understand the gravity of the situation and didn't have an inane grin on her face when talking to the press.

por

mike65 wrote:

The police have just shot dead several contractors in a firefight on a bridge. It seems they were mistaken for looters.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politics/12562184.htm

Mike.

From the BBC,
it looks like the contractors came under fire from looter, gangs, whaterever and the police escort shot back and killed five.
Well done, the place needs law and order and that's the way to dish it out in these circumstances if you ask me.

Sponge Bob

As I suspected there was no plan to deal with the inevitable CAT4 or CAT5 hurricane. Homeland Security simply did not bother with it. Thats straight from the top of Homeland Security according to CNN Here

He said

Chertoff, fielding questions from reporters, said government officials did not expect both a powerful hurricane and a breach of levees that would flood the city of New Orleans.

But everyone else had predicted it dude including your own minions in Federal Emergency

Last week, Michael Brown, head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told CNN his agency had recently planned for a Category 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans. Speaking to "Larry King Live" on August 31, in the wake of Katrina, Brown said, "That Category 4 hurricane caused the same kind of damage that we anticipated. So we planned for it two years ago. Last year, we exercised it. And unfortunately this year, we're implementing it.

Looks like he never read that email . Thousands Dead

Zynks

Published a short time ago on www.sbpost.ie

"Govt allocates €1m in aid to hurricane-hit US states
05/09/2005 - 11:01:14 AM

The Irish Government has announced €1m in aid for the US states devastated by Hurricane Katrina last week.

Minister for Foreign Affairs Dermot Ahern said the money would be given to the Red Cross as well as civil and community organisations in areas affected by the storm.

Mr Ahern said Ireland would also respond positively to a request for assistance from the US via the EU."

WHY?!?!?!

Bush announced last March an increase of USD74.8 Billion in "a wartime supplemental appropriations request of $74.7 billion," to continue funding the invasion of Irak. Sure they can just reduce their war budget increase by 0.001% instead!

Zynks

Zynks wrote:

Published a short time ago on www.sbpost.ie



WHY?!?!?!

uhm probably because we are kind people.
And probably because the U.S accepted tens of thousands of Irish people who would have been unemployed here in the 80's and early 90's and gave them jobs and green cards.

whiskeyman

probably because it's the aid organisations who are doing the majority of the essential work to keep people alive / rescue people at the moment.
They are the best skilled for such operations.
The US Government will be using its money elsewhere - for the rebuilding etc... and it doesnt look like organisations like the Red Cross will see a lot (or at least the amount needed) from the administration.
Sad but true...

Zynks

All countries that experienced significant economic growth needed cheap labour to maintain it, thus the Irish were welcome to the US.

But I find it hard to accept it as an excuse to justify funding a wealthy country that is low on resources because they are over-stretching with an illegal war.

Zynks

Zynks wrote:

All countries that experienced significant economic growth needed cheap labour to maintain it, thus the Irish were welcome to the US.

They could have got them from just mexico all the same.
I understand senators favourable to Ireland skewed the quotas for here.

But I find it hard to accept it as an excuse to justify funding a wealthy country that is low on resources because they are over-stretching with an illegal war.

Well the Irish people that went over there had no qualms about doing so despite the U.S's long history of involvement in self interested wars.

Note : they went and were accepted in the main in Britain and the U.S, both of the countries you don't appear to like arising out of the Iraq war.

It's just normal humanitarianism similar to what we do for some peoples in Africa despite the crazieness of various warlords of governments there.
the U.S set up a field hospital in Iran of all places after a serious Earthquake there less than 2yrs ago when thousands had died and 10's of thousands were in need.

Zynks

I guess we can find an excuse for anything if we look hard enough. There isn't many opinions out there that don't have at least a few supporters with (what they consider to be) valid argumentation.

Some people will agree with giving extra pocket money to their kids to buy the bus ticket because they are wasting their allowance with their mobile phones. Others will tell their kids to cut down on phone use. Who is right?

In the aftermath of 9/11, we (and many other countries) sent a LOT of money to the US, and the relatives got average handouts of 2 million dollars.

The relatives of the London bombings got £11k.

Nobody is sending a single cent to the relatives of the thousand people killed in the stampede in Irak last week.

America is the wealthiest country in the world. Their government is incredibly well funded and has no problems in running major deficits whenever it pleases them (and developing countries regularly pay that bill indirectly). They have a massive army.

The fact is that they don't need our money. They can afford what they need at the moment. Problem is that they don't have the resources (too much tied in the middle east), or the logistics (disorganisation, lack of interest?) to go help the people.

Dozens of american civilians reached New Orleans four days ago tugging power boats so they could help evacuate New Orleans. They were greeted by armed forces turning them away threatening to shoot them.

The government sent resources first to protect businesses from looting, and three days later to evacuate starving people.

I still don't understand why we are sending money...

Zynks

Zynks wrote:

In the aftermath of 9/11, we (and many other countries) sent a LOT of money to the US, and the relatives got average handouts of 2 million dollars.

The relatives of the London bombings got £11k.

Nobody is sending a single cent to the relatives of the thousand people killed in the stampede in Irak last week.

I don't recall massive fundraising here for the victims of 9-11-where were these?
I do recall mass and on going fundraising for the sunami appeal though.
As regards the unfortunates who ran for their lives in fear of a rumoured suicide bomber in Iraq-thats a matter for Alqueda, who have no qualms about blowing up as many muslims as they like lately it would seem.

As regards the London Bomb victims,I'm surprised there hasnt been a mass public collection for them.

America is the wealthiest country in the world. Their government is incredibly well funded and has no problems in running major deficits whenever it pleases them (and developing countries regularly pay that bill indirectly). They have a massive army.

Undoubtedly however funds/supplies coming from over seas is part of a normal humanitarian response.It's a quasi quid pro quo.
The U.S government and people do answer humanitarian calls also.
If I saw the richest person in my neighborhood dying on the side of the street,I wouldn't throw him his mobile and say hey ring the blackrock clinic,I'd pick him up and try and bring him to the doctor.
Money shouldnt come into it.

The fact is that they don't need our money. They can afford what they need at the moment. Problem is that they don't have the resources (too much tied in the middle east), or the logistics (disorganisation, lack of interest?) to go help the people.

I think it's deeper than that.There are a lot of things wrong with U.S society and its poorest(and mostly black) underbelly has got caught up in that.
Couple that with the most tunnel visioned government probably ever in power there and you have this mess.
As regards resources,yup they probably would have had more if they werent committed as much over seas, but when they eventually got their finger out things started to mover very quickly in what is a disaster area of a mammoth size.

Dozens of american civilians reached New Orleans four days ago tugging power boats so they could help evacuate New Orleans. They were greeted by armed forces turning them away threatening to shoot them.

I havent heard that but It goes back to the tunnel vision of this current administration.
FFS most of GWB's paddys day talk to bertie and visitors was his usual war on terror speech with phrases chaned here and there to add a "begorrah and begob" every now and then.

If you want to see some ray of light from this appaling episode,it would be that the US public are increasingly smelling the coffee.

I still don't understand why we are sending money...

Because we are kind.

*Merging this with the existing thread*

Sponge Bob

When the issue of providing immediate support arises we should always remember that

1. We are rich
2. We can afford the goods, and have stocks of certain usable goods from time to time
3. We can airlift essential items from Shannon in large quantities as Antonov 124 aircraft are based there


Therefore we should !!!!

Zynks

When the issue of providing immediate support arises we should always remember that

1. We are rich
2. We can afford the goods, and have stocks of certain usable goods from time to time
3. We can airlift essential items from Shannon in large quantities as Antonov 124 aircraft are based there

1. So are they (the country)
2. Yes, we can afford them and they need them. Send goods and make sure it reaches the people in need!
3. Absolutely yes

But nobody is talking about sending goods, clothing, medications, food. I only hear talks about sending money. Money is useless in this case! Are we just buying our own "peace of mind"?

Zynks

Zynks wrote:

But nobody is talking about sending goods, clothing, medications, food. I only hear talks about sending money. Money is useless in this case! Are we just buying our own "peace of mind"?

Well I think you should really listen to,or read the news again because you heard wrong:

Earlier, the Irish Government announced it is to provide initial funding of €1m for the victims of the hurricane.
In a statement, Minister for Foreign Affairs Dermot Ahern said the aid will be directed to those most in need through the Red Cross and community-based organisations.About 30 members of the Irish Defence Forces are being despatched to the US to help out in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

The army is also to supply thousands of ready meals, tentage, blankets, water purification services and medical aid.

The Irish soldiers will be providing first aid kits, crutches and wheelchairs.They will provide 3,000 ready meals and their tents will be able to accommodate 500 people.

The group will include about ten experts in stress debriefing and perhaps a specialist on infectious diseases.

Six of the troops will operate two water purification plants, and about 20 soldiers will distribute the meals and administer the tents.

source

As I said it's the normal course of humanitarian help and our kindness.

folk_smith

Zynks wrote:

1. So are they (the country)
2. Yes, we can afford them and they need them. Send goods and make sure it reaches the people in need!
3. Absolutely yes

But nobody is talking about sending goods, clothing, medications, food. I only hear talks about sending money. Money is useless in this case! Are we just buying our own "peace of mind"?

You're right in that these people need food, clothing, and temporary shelter, but we're able to handle that down here. In Lafayette alone (a town of about 120,000 pre-katrina) we have around 30,000 evacuees - these people have no jobs, dwindling cash flow, three, maybe four changes of clothes, and no home. The talk here in LA is that many from New Orleans are not going to return - that our city along with Baton Rouge, Alexandria, Shreveport, and other areas in the state are going to experience an incredible growth rate. This means that until the jobs arrive to support these new populations, these people are going to need aid - monetary aid - so that they can get the essentials they need. My department at the university (ULL) where I teach and attend raised $900 from our grad students to provide the folks at the Cajun Dome (our basketball arena) with basics such as pillows, blankets, water, food, clothing, etc. Many in our city are digging deep and doing what they while also volunteering countless hours helping evacuees fill out FEMA applications and other forms for assistance. So, the money is greatly needed and appreciated. I must tell you all, that the folks down here are seeing how the rest of the world is reaching out and we appreciate it greatly (now, as long as our governments - state and federal - don't squander it on crap, we'll be fine).

ddid the american government reject fidel castros help?

Hobbes

Reading wikinews to get some stuff.. the backlash is amazing.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Tempers_flare_over_New_Orleans_tragedy

what got me in this is..

In a press release issued September 3rd, 2005, Democratic Senator Mary L. Landrieu of Louisiana claims that President Bush staged a photo opportunity by having rescue equipment quickly moved into the background during the event. Senator Landrieu claims the equipment was dispersed elsewhere the next day. Landrieu says in her press release, " ... we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment. The good and decent people of southeast Louisiana and the Gulf Coast -- black and white, rich and poor, young and old -- deserve far better from their national government ..."

Sponge Bob

I saw this tragic picture yesterday . It is an aerial shot of New Orleans' own School Bus fleet which coulda deployed the weekend before the hurricane to move people out .

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

Thats not the fault of George Bush or the Feds in fairness.

Hobbes

Sponge Bob wrote:

Thats not the fault of George Bush or the Feds in fairness.

I wonder who they would of got to run them considering most people who could leave town did.

There is a lot of blame across the board TBH. I also heard that buses were shipped in the days beforehand but were told the were not needed.

Nuttzz

I have lost count of the number of news reports that I have seen where people have refused to leave their homes. Would people prefer if martial law was declared and people forceably removed?

bonkey

folk_smith wrote:

In Lafayette alone (a town of about 120,000 pre-katrina) we have around 30,000 evacuees - these people have no jobs, dwindling cash flow, three, maybe four changes of clothes, and no home.

How come that people in such condition in the rest of the world are refugees, but here they're evacuees? is there some stigma with the world's richest, most powerful nation admitting that it has a not-insignificant number of refugees amongst its popualtion?

This, incidentally, isn't aimed purely at folk_smith here - its something that I've noticed since day 1. Even listening to CNN, its been comments like "some have even gone so far as to term them refugees".

Maybe I'm readnig too much into it, but it reads to me as an attitude that smacks somewhat of denial. How are people with no homes, jobs, perhaps even families to return to anything but refugees?


jc

Sponge Bob

bonkey wrote:

Maybe I'm readnig too much into it, but it reads to me as an attitude that smacks somewhat of denial. How are people with no homes, jobs, perhaps even families to return to anything but refugees?

Black person with bag of food = Looter
White Person with bag of food = Sustenance Gatherer

1 M Homeless Americans = Evacueees
1 M Homeless Sudanese = Refugees

1000s of your heavily armed soldiers policing your own streets = Aid Effort
1000s of your heavily armed soldiers policing someone elses streets = Operation Enduring Freedom

por

Hobbes wrote:

I wonder who they would of got to run them considering most people who could leave town did.

There is a lot of blame across the board TBH. I also heard that buses were shipped in the days beforehand but were told the were not needed.

Ture
Here is a good article from the BBC that shows the breakdown in handeling the situation over the last week.
The Mayor and local auhorities have a lot more to answer for that some people are willing to admit.

It's not all Bush's fault !!!

bonkey

bonkey wrote:

Even listening to CNN, its been comments like "some have even gone so far as to term them refugees".

jc

I saw Jessee Jackson on the BBC during the week lambast the description of them as Refugee's or evacuee's.

He said they were U.S citizens full stop.Effectively they are refugee's.However the able bodied amongst them are as entitled as an other U.S citizen to thumb a lift if necessary and get a job in some other part of America and slowly crawl their way back.

I read an article about a local man here recently who moved to the states in the 50's with nothing in his árse pocket and knowing nobody.His sons are now running the multi million dollar industry that he founded.
I guess from my point of view I don't buy into this down and out mythology.
The able bodied should be able to find some menial job and go on from there.
The re building and construction work even in that huge area will need a lot of workers,irrespective of the menial jobs that could be got elsewhere.
Ok a lot of them will have to start from the bottom again but they should leave their pride alone and get on with it.

BEAT

I have not read this whole thread I am just here to comment on the original topic, will New Orleans be abandoned.

This morning on the news the Mayor of New Orleans asked anyone that hasnt evacuated yet to please leave the city. They do not want anyone there...period. He said there will be no jobs, no hotels, no stores and no homes.
He asked everyone to please aknowledge that the city has been destroyed and there is nothing there for anyone.

They want everyone out so they can begin clean up. The levy was just fixed and they have begun pumping water out. He said he thinks somewhere near 10,000 are feared dead.

Some people have no where to go...some people dont have family or friends in other places...thier entire lives were washed away. No money, no possessions, nothing left...absolutley nothing. Thousands of people just wonderng what to do and where to go.

So yes, the city is being abandoned and it will be years before it is put back together. I think that once the water is drained and the destruction is cleared away that the rebuilding will happen. Only after they devise a way for this to not happen again though. It would be pointless to rebuild if they couldnt prevent the levy breaking again ...the hurricanes will always be a threat but perhaps building everything up on higher levels. Raising buildings and street levels. There are ways it will just take time and money.

bonkey

Earthman wrote:

I saw Jessee Jackson on the BBC during the week lambast the description of them as Refugee's or evacuee's.

He said they were U.S citizens full stop.

I wonder if the good Reverend would appreciate it the next time he's championing the cause of some needy sub-section of America that he was told they're not black/poor/whatever, but simply American citizens.

<edit>
I wonder if he's also trying to claim that the effected non-Americans (e.g. tourists) are also American citizens....or maybe its OK for them to be called refugees
</edit>

This is exactly what I'm talking about - the apparent underlying belief that being American means you can't be a refugee. Its like saying being American means you can't be homeless, or you can't be disabled, or whatever.

Its patently ridiculous.

However the able bodied amongst them are as entitled as an other U.S citizen to thumb a lift if necessary and get a job in some other part of America and slowly crawl their way back.

And refugees in any other nation have similar entitlements.

The ability and potential to stop being a refugee doesn't mean you aren't one.

jc