The Graeme Souness appreciation thread

Big Nelly

Ok I am bringing this up again in this thread in regards to Bellamy which I stated on another thread when the so called problems of Bellamy was brought up

Can you tell me how many managers has Bellamy fallen out with? how many off field problems has he got into? has his face been splashed across the press for shagging some bird or something that alot of so called footballer have done week in week out???? well I think you will find he has only fallen out with one manager and that being Souness and the rest all been No. Every manager except Souness that has worked with him has commented on what a quality footballer he is and he is always been a good trainer and apart from a big of a mouth they would work with again.......I have lost the link now but a former manager when he was in the youth teams said he was the best young player he has ever dealt with and had a great atitude towards the game

Strachan wanted to resign him after having him at Coventry, Hughes cant praise him enought after working both at International level and now at club......Sir Bobby came out on numerous occasions and has backed him while he was under fire from Souness/Shepard.....even Shearer was saying great things about him before on Sky before this supposed txt incident after the FA Cup which I dont believe and I have never heard anything from Shearer to confirm........any links to confirm this happened????

So can you please tell me where you have comments (apart from Souness the muppet) to back up this statement?

But to get rid such a trouble maker, who's ability at the highest level could be questioned at times, and replace him with a model professional of undoubted talent, is good business.

Big Nelly

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Every manager makes mistakes in the transfer market. Every manager has successes. Its called football. Putting words in big letters is not going to change that.

Cant remember too many of Souness's good buy's from all the different clubs that he has managed.....trying to remember one and cant call one off hand!!!! can you???? maybe someone can help out

Oh yeah dont mention Newcastle buys in summer because as already pointed out they havent proved anything yet!!!

Jivin Turkey

Big Nelly wrote:

Cant remember too many of Souness's good buy's from all the different clubs that he has managed.....trying to remember one and cant call one off hand!!!! can you???? maybe someone can help out

Oh yeah dont mention Newcastle buys in summer because as already pointed out they havent proved anything yet!!!

Egil Ostenstad, Eyal Berkovic, Brad Friedel, Tugay off the top of my head.

Morten Gamst Pedersen looks a good player now too.

Big Nelly

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Egil Ostenstad, Eyal Berkovic, Brad Friedel, Tugay off the top of my head.

Morten Gamst Pedersen looks a good player now too.

Brad and maybe Tugay......other two I wouldnt rate as good buys......ostenstad did what exactly??? and you talk about Bellamy being a trouble maker?????????????????????????? what is Berkovic then??????????????????????

Will give you Pedersen but I think Hughes had alot to do with this....how many minutes did he play with Souness??? dont think he was too light weight either from my memory as soon as Souness went Pedersen was in team so he didnt gain weight over night.....also he is built like Ronaldo and that he isnt actually that heavy!!! he replies on his speed and trickery!

Jivin Turkey

Big Nelly wrote:

So can you please tell me where you have comments (apart from Souness the muppet) to back up this statement?

Bellamy was very outspoken at times under Bobby Robson. If ever he was played wide or left out.

Didnt he also get in a fight with a bouncer at a nightclub? I cant remember off the top of my head but Im quite sure he has been involved in a number of off-field incidents caused by his fiery temprament

Big Nelly

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Bellamy was very outspoken at times under Bobby Robson. If ever he was played wide or left out.

Didnt he also get in a fight with a bouncer at a nightclub? I cant remember off the top of my head but Im quite sure he has been involved in a number of off-field incidents caused by his fiery temprament

Sorry but maybe memory is gone but cant remember any of these! actually cant remember him or Bobby having a run in.....also I dont think Bobby ever really played him on the wing....every game I seen him play he was up alongside Shearer and was usually close to MoM on most games....him and SHearer where a great combination and you cant deny that!!

Jivin Turkey

Big Nelly wrote:

Brad and maybe Tugay......other two I wouldnt rate as good buys......ostenstad did what exactly??? and you talk about Bellamy being a trouble maker?????????????????????????? what is Berkovic then??????????????????????

Ostenstads goals kept Southampton in the Premiership for three years. Under Souness Berkovic never stepped out of line. I dont really remember him being a trouble maker either. He is lazy on the pitch at times but thats about it.

Big Nelly wrote:

Will give you Pedersen but I think Hughes had alot to do with this....how many minutes did he play with Souness??? dont think he was too light weight either from my memory as soon as Souness went Pedersen was in team so he didnt gain weight over night.....also he is built like Ronaldo and that he isnt actually that heavy!!! he replies on his speed and trickery!

Pedersen had only played four league games under Hughes by February.

This may freshen your memory.

Jivin Turkey

Big Nelly wrote:

Sorry but maybe memory is gone but cant remember any of these! actually cant remember him or Bobby having a run in.....also I dont think Bobby ever really played him on the wing....every game I seen him play he was up alongside Shearer and was usually close to MoM on most games....him and SHearer where a great combination and you cant deny that!!

I dont deny Bellamy and Shearer worked well together. But I also dont deny that Owen and Shearer is a better combination. Souness has facilitated this.

Jivin Turkey

Big Nelly wrote:

Sorry but maybe memory is gone but cant remember any of these! actually cant remember him or Bobby having a run in.....also I dont think Bobby ever really played him on the wing....every game I seen him play he was up alongside Shearer and was usually close to MoM on most games....him and SHearer where a great combination and you cant deny that!!

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=193067&plid=1231&clid=5&cpid=8

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=221404&plid=1231&clid=5&cpid=8

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=166749&plid=1231&clid=5&cpid=8

Big Nelly

http://premiersoccerstats.com/PlayerHome.cfm?PlayerID=OSTENSE

Not very impressive for Egil

If Pedersen had only played 4 game for hughes before feb then how many had he played for Souness??? maybe he signed the player but that was about it!! didnt make him into the player he is today!! as mentioned before he is not a good coach and I cant see why you are constantly stand up for the fellow....he has made a disaster out of Newcastle.....last season was there worst season for how many years????? and please dont take the pi** by going he only lost one in FACup and so on......thats a joke...or it has to be??? the point of the cup is that you cant only lose one!!! sure by your reasoning then Shef Wed had a great season in FA Cup last year! we only lost one as well!! hopefully we will go one better this season and win it!

Lemlin

Dunn is almost 26, he probably didnt have the same lifestyle as he did when he was eligible for the U21s.

You cant possibly argue that selling Dunn for "as little as £5.5M" wasn't good business. He has played less than 30 league games for Birmingham in two years. We have the benefit in hindsight.

Yes, we have the benefit in hindsight about his injuries but Souness didn't know this. But you're putting a little bit of a spin on things: when Dunn left Blackburn he was 23, had just been the club's third top scorer in a season where they finished sixth and was backup for the England squad at World Cup 2002 and afterwards.

Eh, no. What Im arguing is that its blatantly obvious that Patrick Kluivert could score in a brothel, and in fact his scoring record at Newcastle was actually very good.

Yes, that's why Newcastle broke the bank to resign him. Who did those 13 goals actually come against? Rochdale in the cup? Kluivert was on about 90,000 a week, was Bellamy?

He had a barren spell then at the end of the season which coincided with the overall teams form. The teams loss of form had nothing to do with Craig Bellamy.

Nope, the team's loss of form came about as Souness had not only lost the team the creativity of Bellamy but was now refusing to play Robert as well.

Every manager makes mistakes in the transfer market. Every manager has successes. Its called football. Putting words in big letters is not going to change that.

You managed to name about five there, and some of those are debatable. That's a great turnover from over a decade as a manager.

Souness signed MGP. Anyone can sign as player as Souness is showing. Its Hughes who has got him to play like he is. Something Souness could never manage. That's something you'll see with Newcastle's new players.

Praise the man if you like: we'll all laugh when Newcastle finish around 14th in the Premiership again and you've started the Graeme Souness hate thread.

Like the potential of your signings, the potential of Shearer and Owen for Newcastle is still to be seen. I'll talk to ya at the end of the season and we'll see if they are as effective as Shearer and Bellamy.

Jivin Turkey

Big Nelly wrote:

http://premiersoccerstats.com/PlayerHome.cfm?PlayerID=OSTENSE

Not very impressive for Egil

His record for Southampton is good.

Big Nelly wrote:

If Pedersen had only played 4 game for hughes before feb then how many had he played for Souness??? maybe he signed the player but that was about it!! didnt make him into the player he is today!!

He signed him as he saw he was a good player.

Souness only managed the side for a single game when Pedersen was at the club, it was against one of the biggest teams in the league, and Pedersen played 90 minutes.

Big Nelly wrote:

as mentioned before he is not a good coach and I cant see why you are constantly stand up for the fellow....

As mentioned before? Everybody seems keen to "mention" it, but no one seems that keen to provide valid back-up.

Big Nelly wrote:

he has made a disaster out of Newcastle.....last season was there worst season for how many years?????

In league terms yes. But they made the semis of both the UEFA Cup and FA Cup. Influencing factors on league form.

To be honest Id say the supporters would be happier with a 14th finish and two good cup runs, than a 7th and no cup run.

Big Nelly wrote:

and please dont take the pi** by going he only lost one in FACup and so on......thats a joke...or it has to be??? the point of the cup is that you cant only lose one!!! sure by your reasoning then Shef Wed had a great season in FA Cup last year! we only lost one as well!! hopefully we will go one better this season and win it!

I never said that. Someone took what I said out of context. I highlighted that while his league record may not have been great his cup record was excellent, and while they obviously only lost twice, they won a hell of a lot of games. Against some good opposition too.

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, we have the benefit in hindsight about his injuries but Souness didn't know this.

It doesn't matter as in hindsight it was shown to be the right move.

It is also very naive to think that a club manager would not have a very deep insight to the fitness levels and injury niggles of his players. Who is to say Souness didn't know he was selling a bad egg?

Lemlin wrote:

But you're putting a little bit of a spin on things: when Dunn left Blackburn he was 23, had just been the club's third top scorer in a season where they finished sixth and was backup for the England squad at World Cup 2002 and afterwards.

Im not putting any spin on things, I fully admit Dunn has looked impressive at times. But he is far from consistent and is injury prone.

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, that's why Newcastle broke the bank to resign him. Who did those 13 goals actually come against? Rochdale in the cup? Kluivert was on about 90,000 a week, was Bellamy?

Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham and Olympiakos to name a few.

I also fail to see how what a player earns impacts on whether they get chosen to play or not.

Lemlin wrote:

Nope, the team's loss of form came about as Souness had not only lost the team the creativity of Bellamy but was now refusing to play Robert as well.

Id agree with you only Robert played in every single one of those defeats suffered in April bar one. Starting four of them.

Do you just make stuff up before you post it?

Lemlin wrote:

You managed to name about five there, and some of those are debatable. That's a great turnover from over a decade as a manager.

You can be pedantic all you like.

In future Ill refer to the book I wrote rating every single signing ever made by Graeme Souness to give a more comprehensive list.

Lemlin wrote:

Souness signed MGP. Anyone can sign as player as Souness is showing. Its Hughes who has got him to play like he is. Something Souness could never manage. That's something you'll see with Newcastle's new players.

Souness only managed Pedersen for a single game. He played quite well. It took Hughes months before Pedersen was in any sort of form.

We can only speculate as to how his career would have developed under Souness, but Im sure he would have more inherent confidence in him seeing as he is the one that went to the trouble in signing him.

Lemlin wrote:

Praise the man if you like: we'll all laugh when Newcastle finish around 14th in the Premiership again and you've started the Graeme Souness hate thread.

I praise the man until he actually does a bad job at the club, or until someone can show to me that he is not actually a decent manager.

Lemlin wrote:

Like the potential of your signings, the potential of Shearer and Owen for Newcastle is still to be seen. I'll talk to ya at the end of the season and we'll see if they are as effective as Shearer and Bellamy.

Owen and Shearer already had an amazing record as a partnership for England.

If its anything like that for Newcastle Bellamy wont be remembered for too long.

Necronomicon

Lemlin wrote:

Souness signed MGP. Anyone can sign as player as Souness is showing. Its Hughes who has got him to play like he is. Something Souness could never manage. That's something you'll see with Newcastle's new players.

MGP's form when he first joined the club was down to an unsettled start. In fact, he was in contact with his fellow international Ole Gunner Solskjaer a good few times when he first arrived in England as he was having trouble adapting to life there. He was home-sick.

PHB

Owen and Shearer already had an amazing record as a partnership for England.

If its anything like that for Newcastle Bellamy wont be remembered for too long.

If i'm not mistaken, and I might well be since I'm going from pure memory, they played 13 games together, won 4 drew 4 lost 5.
They scored 9 goals between them.

Hardly prolific.

Bellamy is a top class striker, at the same time as being a world class ****. I can't help but think a Bellamy and Owen parternship is something as a Man Utd fan I would not at all like to see.


Souness may not be a bad manager, and Jivin has gone some way to convincing me he isn't as bad as I first thought, but he still is not of the quality required to bring Newcastle to the next level, the level of top 4/5/6 on a consistant basis. That said, I'm sure they'll get a good cup run going cause it is Shearer's last year without a doubt.(What I'd give to see a Newcastle vs. Man Utd FA Cup and see Keano lift the trophy in front of Shearer )

Necronomicon

PHB wrote:

What I'd give to see a Newcastle vs. Man Utd FA Cup and see Keano lift the trophy in front of Shearer

I think it would kill the loser to have to watch the other lift it! I'm gonna miss Keane/Shearer walking down the tunnel without so much as looking at each other.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

If i'm not mistaken, and I might well be since I'm going from pure memory, they played 13 games together, won 4 drew 4 lost 5.
They scored 9 goals between them.

Not quite an elephant PHB.

In the 99/00 season alone they played 10 games together, yielding 11 goals.

Lemlin

I praise the man until he actually does a bad job at the club

And 14th last season was a not a bad job? He was in charge of Newcastle from 4 games into the season and produced Newcastle's worst season in years.

or until someone can show to me that he is not actually a decent manager.

Everyone is trying to show you but you refuse to listen. I'm sick of the thread at this stage and won't be posting again. It's just going round in circles. But, argue as you may about him inheriting Robson's team, the stats prove it all: 14th last season.

I'll see you on the Graeme Souness hate thread come January.

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

And 14th last season was a not a bad job? He was in charge of Newcastle from 4 games into the season and produced Newcastle's worst season in years.

If you look at the seasons successes and failures in league terms only then possibly.

But if you take your head out of the sand and look at the big picture and note that

(1) He did not have access to a transfer window until January to bring in some new faces.
(2) He did not want many of the players he inherited, demonstrated by five (or is it six) first team players having been sold since.
(3) They got to the semi-finals of the UEFA Cup, and were unlucky to go out.
(4) They got to the semi-finals of the FA Cup
(5) They were still in with a shout of Europe until an unthinkable on-field bust up amongst two of his own players marked the start of an awful run of form and ultimately any chance of Europe

then it is plain to see that his first season at Newcastle was not as bad as one would think.

Lemlin wrote:

Everyone is trying to show you but you refuse to listen. I'm sick of the thread at this stage and won't be posting again. It's just going round in circles. But, argue as you may about him inheriting Robson's team, the stats prove it all: 14th last season.

Im not refusing to listen.

The majority of your arguments against him relate to Blackburn Rovers, a team which he took from division one to over-achieving in the Premiership, not to mention into Europe.

We've also had a few insightful "Souness is a dickhead"-esque arguments.

I've seen nothing here that discredits his managerial career, or do anything else other than to suggest it has been reasonably successful.

Lemlin wrote:

I'll see you on the Graeme Souness hate thread come January.

And I'll still be arguing the same position, even if Newcastle are bottom of the league. One bad season doesn't discount a decade of success.

Lemlin

One bad season doesn't discount a decade of success.

ROFL - that's all I think I need to say.

I think I can safely say that you'll be the first and only person I've ever heard of to describe Graeme Souness' career as a "decade of sucess".

I'll leave ya to it, you're obviously delusional.

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

ROFL - that's all I think I need to say.

I think I can safely say that you'll be the first and only person I've ever heard of to describe Graeme Souness' career as a "decade of sucess".

I'll leave ya to it, you're obviously delusional.

Grand, you havn't brought anything to the table so you will be of no loss.

I've outlined what he has achieved in management in my first post. Success is different things to different clubs.