A loophole for getting insured on bigger cars?

Illkillya · 03-09-2005 12:51am #1

I'm 22 and I was delighted when I got my quote of €927 on a 1.3l Colt about 8 months ago, having just received my full licence, after only 1 year experience on a provisional licence, third party fire and theft with Hibernian and Ignition. Sounds like a good deal to me since other companies were charging so much. I know that under my current policy, I am allowed to drive other cars when my own car is not on the road. I rang Hibernian and gave them my policy number and asked if there were restrictions on the replacement car that I could drive - they said that as long as I have the permission of the owner then its fine, just it would only be third party insurance (I don't pay for comprehensive insurance on my own car anyway).

So today I drove my mother's 2.5 litre Volvo s70 into town... a car that I would have had no hope of getting insured on without paying a fortune, and I had attempted to get on as a named driver the previous year and they wouldn't do it because of the size of the engine. According to the Hibernian rep on the phone, I am covered to drive my neighbour's Porsche with permission... it just doesn't make sense to me. They wouldn't even give me a quote on a car bigger than 1.6 litre, but now they are allowing me to drive a 2.5 litre.

Can anybody tell me if the information I received from Hibernian is correct? (This was actually the second time I rang them to confirm it, since I didn't quite trust it the first time I rang about a month ago). It would make sense to me if the replacement car is up to 1.3 litre or maybe even up to 1.6 litre (which is the upper limit of the ignition policy), but Hibernian said that I can hop into a 3 litre car and be covered as long as I have permission from the owner. Should I get this in writing?

drdre · 03-09-2005 1:04am

man this is the best thing about hibernian, i also have there insurance and i am 21 and pay 1300 for fully comp insuarance on a 2005 vw golf 1.4. thats cheap and i get to drive my dads volvo s80 turbo and uncles s500 its actually the best thing about hibernian.now my dad never stops me fromdriving his car.:D

Creamy Goodness · 03-09-2005 1:08am

drdre wrote:

man this is the best thing about hibernian, i also have there insurance and i am 21 and pay 1300 for fully comp insuarance on a 2005 vw golf 1.4. thats cheap and i get to drive my dads volvo s80 turbo and uncles s500 its actually the best thing about hibernian.now my dad never stops me fromdriving his car.:D

jesus, drdre i'm a year younger than you, looking to get insured on the exact same car (04 golf 1.4) yet they quote me 3200 euros. i could live with 1300 but 3200 is insane.

bazz26 · 03-09-2005 1:35am

Illkillya wrote:

I'm 22 and I was delighted when I got my quote of €927 on a 1.3l Colt about 8 months ago, having just received my full licence, after only 1 year experience on a provisional licence, third party fire and theft with Hibernian and Ignition. Sounds like a good deal to me since other companies were charging so much. I know that under my current policy, I am allowed to drive other cars when my own car is not on the road. I rang Hibernian and gave them my policy number and asked if there were restrictions on the replacement car that I could drive - they said that as long as I have the permission of the owner then its fine, just it would only be third party insurance (I don't pay for comprehensive insurance on my own car anyway).

So today I drove my mother's 2.5 litre Volvo s70 into town... a car that I would have had no hope of getting insured on without paying a fortune, and I had attempted to get on as a named driver the previous year and they wouldn't do it because of the size of the engine. According to the Hibernian rep on the phone, I am covered to drive my neighbour's Porsche with permission... it just doesn't make sense to me. They wouldn't even give me a quote on a car bigger than 1.6 litre, but now they are allowing me to drive a 2.5 litre.

Can anybody tell me if the information I received from Hibernian is correct? (This was actually the second time I rang them to confirm it, since I didn't quite trust it the first time I rang about a month ago). It would make sense to me if the replacement car is up to 1.3 litre or maybe even up to 1.6 litre (which is the upper limit of the ignition policy), but Hibernian said that I can hop into a 3 litre car and be covered as long as I have permission from the owner. Should I get this in writing?

Yes but you may be only covered by Third Party to drive other cars.

If you hit another car while driving your neighbour's Porsche then your insurance company will fix the other car and hand back the wrecked Porsche to your neighbour plus your NCB is gone. If you crash your neighbour's Porsche into a wall, your insurance company will not pay a penny either as there was no third party involved.

Most other insurance companies have this under their full comperhensive policy but may have restrictions such as engine size or type of vehicle.

Illkillya · 03-09-2005 2:13am

bazz26 wrote:

Yes but you may be only covered by Third Party to drive other cars.

If you hit another car while driving your neighbour's Porsche then your insurance company will fix the other car and hand back the wrecked Porsche to your neighbour plus your NCB is gone. If you crash your neighbour's Porsche into a wall, your insurance company will not pay a penny either as there was no third party involved.

This doesn't matter to me since I'm only covered TP F&T anyway. Sounds like a good deal... now to become friendly with the neighbour

ando · 03-09-2005 8:53am

no way in f**k I'd let someone drive my car under third party only insurance

PowerHouseDan · 03-09-2005 9:35am

Illkillya, I was told this too by HIB that i can drive ANY car 3rd party f/t i clearly asked in the Cork Office was it any litre car i was onto the phone to HIB about 4 Months later they said that i can only drive 1.6 or under car not any litre car, I questioned the person on the phone saying i was told i could drive bla bla she said No, So i rang up five min later asked another girl she said no i can only drive 1.6 or under with "Driving other cars". Your Insurance is void if you crash. I have a Full Lis for 3 Years and 21.

Guy:Incognito · 03-09-2005 11:14am

powerhousedan wrote:

Illkillya, I was told this too by HIB that i can drive ANY car 3rd party f/t i clearly asked in the Cork Office was it any litre car i was onto the phone to HIB about 4 Months later they said that i can only drive 1.6 or under car not any litre car, I questioned the person on the phone saying i was told i could drive bla bla she said No, So i rang up five min later asked another girl she said no i can only drive 1.6 or under with "Driving other cars". Your Insurance is void if you crash. I have a Full Lis for 3 Years and 21.

Is that only because your policy is on a car less than 1.6 and you have had your licence less than 5 years? I havnt questioned my policy, but I have my full licence 6 years and am driving a 2l car so i assumed it would cover me to drive up to a 2l car at least.

galwaytt · 03-09-2005 11:33am

Ando - you cannot get comprehensive cover for another person's car - from anyone, at any price. So if someone tells you they can, they're lying. All Driving Other Vehicles (known as DOV) is always 3rd party only, irrespective of the cover type you have on your actual policy on your own vehicle.

As for using this as a loop-hole to drive bigger cars, remember some DOV clauses state you can only drive the other car if that car itself is insured by the actual owner. Read the small print. This is to stop people insuring Eur300 Micra's and leaving them in the garden whilst actually driving a Skyline they bought and own, but conveniently register in someone else's name....mother/father etc....

....mind you, you'd never be able to tax it either.....so it's gonna attract attention and parking tickets like nobody's business..........not to mention penalty points....

PowerHouseDan · 03-09-2005 11:43am

No if your do the Ignition Course it only covers you under 1.6 thats the agreement with it.

30-6shooter · 03-09-2005 11:50am

I`d hardly call this a "loophole".

declanoneill · 03-09-2005 12:26pm

galwaytt wrote:

Ando - you cannot get comprehensive cover for another person's car - from anyone, at any price. So if someone tells you they can, they're lying.

You're wrong. AXA allow some of their comprehensive cover clients to drive other cars with their full cover. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but they do allow it.

Airblazer · 03-09-2005 12:43pm

I'v done it before with Quinn Direct..basically you're covered for any car as long as you have permission to drive..also what type of policy you have affects the insurance..3rd party=3rd party, comp=comp cover

PowerHouseDan · 03-09-2005 12:54pm

Quinn is different, You dont have to do a ignition course,I would advise ringing up and confirming it but i am certain....95%

bazz26 · 03-09-2005 1:42pm

Airblazer wrote:

I'v done it before with Quinn Direct..basically you're covered for any car as long as you have permission to drive..also what type of policy you have affects the insurance..3rd party=3rd party, comp=comp cover

If you have Third Party on your own car then most insurance companies will not cover you to drive other cars at all. It makes sense as why would you insure your own car with Third Party but be insured to drive someone else's car fully comp.

If you have full comp then by default most policies cover you to drive other cars but only with third party cover, with the owner's permission of course. This is to stop people going out and insuring a banger under their own policy but driving around in a sports car owned by their partner. I don't know if you can get full comp cover to drive other peoples cars as to me that would be a loophole in itself. I know you can temperarily transfer your own policy to someone elses car alright say you have a loan of a car from a garage while yours in for repair.

cormie · 03-09-2005 2:01pm

I'm with Tesco (Hibernian) and have 3rd Party F+T insurance on a 1l Micra. Does this mean if I wanted to get a new, bigger car, I could buy it for some lil oul lady who is insured with Tesco, 3rd Party F+T, and we basically just swap cars? Pay eachothers tax etc? There is definitely no 180 restriction or anything?

RicardoSmith · 03-09-2005 2:13pm

I guess it comes down to how likely someone else is to let you drive their car 3rd party.

bazz26 · 03-09-2005 2:21pm

cormie wrote:

I'm with Tesco (Hibernian) and have 3rd Party F+T insurance on a 1l Micra. Does this mean if I wanted to get a new, bigger car, I could buy it for some lil oul lady who is insured with Tesco, 3rd Party F+T, and we basically just swap cars? Pay eachothers tax etc? There is definitely no 180 restriction or anything?

Third Part F+T covers your car against fire or thieft or the car/person you hit. It would not cover you to drive other cars.

Most insurance policies only cover you to drive other cars if you have a full comp policy with them and even then they only cover the other car you are driving third party. Read the conditions on your insurance policy, it tells you what is covered and what not or confirm with your insurance company.

Insurance companies are experts at exploiting loopholes not the otherway round.

cormie · 03-09-2005 2:23pm

But say in the case of the above, a lil oul lady who only uses her car to go to mass on a Sunday which is a 5 minute drive down the road. Just imagine say, she knew I wanted to get rid of my car and she was thinking of getting rid of her '89 wreck, so she asked me could she buy mine from me, and I say wellllllll lil oul lady, I may just have a proposition for you. I buy her a 1.6 L Focus say, I keep my Micra, I pay her tax and insurance and the difference between her getting insured on a Focus and a Micra and she pays the rest (what she would have been quoted on a Micra and the Micras TAX). She gets insured TP on her Focus, I keep my TP insurance on my Micra, I let her drive my Micra and she let's me drive her Focus which I paid for... possible?

bazz26 · 03-09-2005 2:26pm

Most if not all Third Party policies will not cover you to drive other peoples cars.

cormie · 03-09-2005 2:35pm

bazz26 wrote:

Third Part F+T covers your car against fire or thieft or the car/person you hit. It would not cover you to drive other cars.

Most insurance policies only cover you to drive other cars if you have a full comp policy with them and even then they only cover the other car you are driving third party. Read the conditions on your insurance policy, it tells you what is covered and what not or confirm with your insurance company.

Insurance companies are experts at exploiting loopholes not the otherway round.

I was told by Tesco I'm insured to drive someone elses car with their permission. On my policy sheet there is a part where it has all the parts of the policy stated that apply to me, what I'm covered for etc. The part about driving someone elses car says "XX - Cancells Clause D of Section 2" so I don't have XX on my policy sheet and Clause D of Section 2 states they will pay for an accident which occurs when I am driving in someone elses car, so it basically says I'm covered and my insurance is TPFT:)

PowerHouseDan · 03-09-2005 2:47pm

Not True. Hib will let you once the car is 1.6 or under that if you have done the ignition course, Quinn you can drive ANY car also Britton will too once you have a full lis.You are insured 3rd Party t/f.....I no 2 people driving skylines due to this get there parents insured on it and drive it 3rd party f/t...

bazz26 wrote:

Most if not all Third Party policies will not cover you to drive other peoples cars.

bazz26 · 03-09-2005 2:53pm

Fair enough but from my own experience when I was younger and could only afford Third Party insurance I was continuously told on the phone by different companies that "Oh no third party doesn't allow you to drive other cars".

Guy:Incognito · 03-09-2005 3:07pm

powerhousedan wrote:

Not True. Hib will let you once the car is 1.6 or under that if you have done the ignition course,

This is the bit I was asking about. I only switched to Hibernian this year. I dont qualify for Ignition because its been over 5 years since I did my test and im driving a 2l car. Am I also restricted to 1.6 if im driving someone elses car I cant find any restriction on my policy.

PlayaFlow · 03-09-2005 3:18pm

sweet !! , now i can drive my dads Merc C270 (legally)! wahey! ...he'll let me take it out whenever i want to! nice ol' guy!

fletch · 03-09-2005 3:24pm

I noticed this on my policy a while back & gave Hibernian a call & they said yeh that I can drive anyone elses car....I was nearly speechless on the phone & asked your wan to double check for me & again she said yep no problem....I think I drive other peoples cars more now..

fletch · 03-09-2005 3:26pm

powerhousedan wrote:

Not True. Hib will let you once the car is 1.6 or under that if you have done the ignition course, Quinn you can drive ANY car also Britton will too once you have a full lis.You are insured 3rd Party t/f.....I no 2 people driving skylines due to this get there parents insured on it and drive it 3rd party f/t...

Not true.....when I rang Hibernian they said there is no engine size restriction, I said jokingly my Dad drives a 4.0ltr V8 Lexus and she said yeh no problem and to just be careful because it's only a very basic 3rd party cover

cormie · 03-09-2005 3:29pm

Funk it! I just typed up a massive post and IE crashed :mad:

I went to Tesco Online to get a quote for my dad driving a 1.4 Focus, basically there it worked out about €8 cheaper to pay for his FOCUS insurance and my Micra Insurance than if I was to pay for my own FOCUS insurance and ditch the Micra. So it's not really worth it. Also, if you have a look at the quote page, there are different prices, Fully Comp, Fully Comp with allowance for others to drive your car, TPFT, TP, TPFT with allowance of some else to drive your car. So you have to pay a tiny bit extra for it, this was on my dads mock quote, I did a quote for myself and it was only Fully Comp and TPFT options, no extra driver options. I don't know why this is.

Also... the big issue.. in the "Extra Driver" options for my dads quote, it said the extra driver (or was it the policy holder? hmmm) must have had their license for 5+ years, no claims and be over 25. Will check it again later unless someone else does:)

So I THINK you have to be over 25 with a 5+ year old full license and it will only save you about €8.

Of course it's cool if you just want to borrow your parents car on the odd occasion (but you may have to be over 25 etc)

Guy:Incognito · 03-09-2005 3:39pm

cormie wrote:

Funk it! I just typed up a massive post and IE crashed :mad:

I went to Tesco Online to get a quote for my dad driving a 1.4 Focus, basically there it worked out about €8 cheaper to pay for his FOCUS insurance and my Micra Insurance than if I was to pay for my own FOCUS insurance and ditch the Micra. So it's not really worth it. Also, if you have a look at the quote page, there are different prices, Fully Comp, Fully Comp with allowance for others to drive your car, TPFT, TP, TPFT with allowance of some else to drive your car. So you have to pay a tiny bit extra for it, this was on my dads mock quote, I did a quote for myself and it was only Fully Comp and TPFT options, no extra driver options. I don't know why this is.
)

The other options are for Open drive. If you are over 25 or have a certain NCB built up you can add open drive to your policy. Its pretty much the opposite to whats being talked about here. It means anyone over 25 with a full licence can drive your car with your permission.

Illkillya · 03-09-2005 3:49pm

fletch wrote:

Not true.....when I rang Hibernian they said there is no engine size restriction, I said jokingly my Dad drives a 4.0ltr V8 Lexus and she said yeh no problem and to just be careful because it's only a very basic 3rd party cover

OK so its down to what powerhousedan says and what fletch says.

fletch - this is also what Hibernian said to me on both occasions, but I'm not ruling out the possibility that the person from Hibernian on the phone who spoke to us was mistaken.

"if your do the Ignition Course it only covers you under 1.6 thats the agreement with it." - this makes sense to me, and Hibernian should have told me this when I specifically asked them. I will phone them again and maybe write a letter so that I can get a definite answer in writing. I have a feeling that powerhousedan is right and it was just the Hibernian rep on the phone didn't know what she was talking about.

30-6shooter: if it is the case that I could drive a 5 litre car under a Nissan Micra policy, when nobody else would insure me on anything bigger than 1.6, then I would call it a loophole.

PowerHouseDan · 03-09-2005 5:34pm

Well i was told one thing and complained about it to the one on the phone but they insisted that it only covers 1.6 and under that what the ignition covers I am changing to quinn next month for two reasons, Just got a Bmw and quinn Quoted 520Euro less Than Hib and Also there is no limits on car size with them dont like companys that tell you two things i was drivin my uncles 330 Bmw without being insured yet i thought i was when i asked when i took out my policy. Just ring and make sure (and record the call) just in case :P

A loophole for getting insured on bigger cars?

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