National team - who's to blame / where's it going wrong? (long term view)

whiskeyman

So qualification is looking very doubtful and the whole performance during the qualifiers is being slammed. Others mentioning that we just haven't had a good team in a long time.
People are attacking "deadwood" players...
Others are having ago at Kerr, saying he's not tactically up to the job.

Is it now time to stand back and, once again, assess the situation of the sport in Ireland?

For example, let's look at athletics.
Whenever we either fail to qualify, or end up with dismal performances in the Olympics, our athletes are usually not to blame - in fact, the media usually take their side and commend them on any sort of performance.
However, it's the Olympic Council and Government who take the flak for not enough funding / training and grass roots development.

The same applies to soccer. Sure, we come up with some amazing talent now and again, but it's just not consistent. Like many posts here, we cant rely on 3 or 4 world class players to carry a team. We need consistantly good players across the board. There's clearly a lot of players on our current squad that just arent good enough for this level, but is that their fault or the managers fault?

Do you think we're still lacking in the grass roots side or soccer in this country?

Where are Ireland missing out?
You just have to look at the emergance of so many of the old "soccer minnows" who are now at such a different level. (look at Greece, Poland, Switzerland, Israel... teams we'd love to have in groups a few years back, and now we'd rather avoid).
Perhaps I could look at the effect on the GAA hindering (directly or indirectly) soccer development. That'd sure open a can of worms!

Or is this the best we'll ever get? Are we expecting too much from a small country that really will never be of a better standard?

So, what are peoples views on this?

jubbly

Doc shouldnt be called up anymore. We used to be very effective at the long ball but were crap at it now. Doc cant contribute anything anymore.

whiskeyman

jubbly wrote:

Doc shouldnt be called up anymore. We used to be very effective at the long ball but were crap at it now. Doc cant contribute anything anymore.

yeah, tell me about it.
But lets leave the players and manager aside for this thread (that was the reason I set it up).

masterK

To only have 3 or 4 world class players is not the problem, there are very few teams on the international stage with any more than that. Even look at France last night, how many world class players do they have, maybe only Henry, Zidane and Thuram?

Many of the so called emerging teams don't have a single player of the calibre of Duff or Roy Keane and yet they are succeeding, you have to ask yourself why.

Culchie

First of all, if Ireland win their next two games, we are in the play-offs.

How did you honestly think we would do when the names came out of the hat at the start of the campaign, 2nd was the best we could have wished for.

Secondly, I would like to make a point that it is also players responsibility to improve their game as well. Taking a move to Crystal Palace or Norwich when you can't get in a Premiership Clubs first team does not improve your game. Playing in a Spanish/German/Italian league team will.
There seems to be a distinct reluctance for UK based players (not just Irish, but we have a smaller selection, so need to get the best from our pool) to travel around Europe and improve their game (tecnically especially).
Why don't our kids (or why don't we send them?) go to Holland, France, Italy or Spain instead of the UK all the time .... at least mix it.

We have not had a natural goalscorer since Aldridge (who was English, not questioning patriotism here, just pointing out facts), and before him, I dunno.


Thirdly, we hate admitting it, but we have a small population, so we've been fighting above our weight for a long time now.
If our small group of players who get offered professional contracts at 17 years of age (Raw Material) do not advance their own careers and development then I'm afraid we will always have a team of 1 or 2 'nearly world class' players, 3 or 4 'journeymen' and 2 or 3 'donkeys'.

We need a squad of 18-25 skillfull, competition toughened, match competitive and clinical footballers. They need to take some responsibilty as well.


Whilst Brian Kerr should be open to some tactical criticism on a match to match basis, it is not his fault in the long run, and in the strategic and fundamental problems that face Irish soccer.

jubbly

it all comes down to a few things,

how much money you invest into your sport
how big the population is divided by how many sports your country follows
how intrested in sport your country is
how well developed your football league is
How motivated your players are

We dont have a lot of money in sport, we have a small population with a big intrest in lots of sports. Country is hugely intrested in sport. The league is underdeveloped, our players arent motivated like they once were.

I think we have been living off the English Primer league for so long and never looked about sorting our own league out. The squad rotation is really killing our players in England unless you are one of the few top class players.

The worst part is how motivated our players are. Roy Keane was ultra motivated. He dragged the whole team along. Now we have no one and like france without zidane were very average. We need someone to inspire the team. That is what is really lacking IMO.

jimbling

I know we are leaving aside the the team and manager.. but I disagree that we dont have a good side. I think we had a good enough side to win this group with ease (only due to france been in a major slump). I don't understand how you can leave this alone with a thread titled this way.... but so be it.



Ireland is always going to have trouble with soccer players. I agree with you culchie on the moving abroad etc... a mix would def help.

But the main reason is Hurling Football and Rugby. Now I thouraghly enjoy all these sports as well... so I'm not against them or anything. But the current situation is that soccer is 4th on the list of popularity. There is a huge pool of brilliant soccer players who go play GAA and Rugby... and I know a few.

In fact I know a few guys who were excellent players, and competed with the likes of Colin Healy and Miller from my area, but other things got in the way. Two guys in particular I am thinking of chose rugby as there primary sport, when it was obvious to all that they were far more talented at soccer.... but thats the way it goes.

Another guy who was the best soccer player I have seen turned to drugs.. but thats a whole other story.


anyhow.. the point is, I doubt any of the problems which hinder Irish soccer are going to change. Our only hope is to start improving the eircom league (which is already under way).. and bring in more money for the FAI for better facilities etc...

horseflesh

I think Kerr is clearly out of his depth at senior international level.
I hindsight it was crazy for the FAI to appoint someone with absolutely no experience working with senior players (correct me if I'm wrong).

As for the play-offs, why do people think we're on the pig's back if we end up there, I wouldn't be very confident going into them.....

colster

horseflesh wrote:

I think Kerr is clearly out of his depth at senior international level.
I hindsight it was crazy for the FAI to appoint someone with absolutely no experience working with senior players (correct me if I'm wrong).

As for the play-offs, why do people think we're on the pig's back if we end up there, I wouldn't be very confident going into them.....

Thats absolute rubbish. The fact is that the Irish team is in transition.
The problem with the Irish team is that bar Keane we don't have a quality central midfielder. Kilbane was exposed last night.
Kerr isn't the problem. It's central midfield thats the problem.

jimbling

colster wrote:

Thats absolute rubbish. The fact is that the Irish team is in transition.

transition to what?? where is it going?? all thats going to happen in the future is we lose Keane and Cunningham... what then. (ie I agree with you abou the midfield)

colster wrote:

The problem with the Irish team is that bar Keane we don't have a quality central midfielder. Kilbane was exposed last night.
Kerr isn't the problem. It's central midfield thats the problem.

you can only really make that point about last night.. what about all the other games.. I dont think I could blamn our midfield on our two draws with israel... do you not think Kerr has to take some responsability for that?

por

whiskeyman wrote:

Perhaps I could look at the effect on the GAA hindering (directly or indirectly) soccer development. That'd sure open a can of worms!

I don't think the GAA are hindering the development of soccer. Every sports body in the country is entitled to try and maxminis it's membership, I'd blame the FAI for 'hindering' Irish soccer before I'd balme anyone else.
The problem is Ireland has a population of 4 million people but 4 major field sports are played in the country.
I once heard that if Germany had the same proportion of field sports to population they would have 46 !!!
The talent is spread amoungst those sports, that is not the case in places like Greece or Latvia where the only competitor to soccer would be track and field or basketball.

If you look at the team last night only 2 were born outside Ireland (Kilbane and Morrison) that is because the most of them are children of Euro 88, WC 90, 94.
However there will no be children of more recent championships cos we have only qualified for WC '02
So the FAI will have to look further afield again for talent, the USA has been mentioned as there are many sons of morrison visa holders from the '80s etc growing up playing soccer

whiskeyman

horseflesh wrote:

I think Kerr is clearly out of his depth at senior international level.

colster wrote:

The problem with the Irish team is that bar Keane we don't have a quality central midfielder. Kilbane was exposed last night.
Kerr isn't the problem. It's central midfield thats the problem.

C'mon lads, I said in the original post to keep the current players and manager out of this thread - there's lots of that on other posts.
I'm keeping this thread for discussing a more long term view on the propects Irish soccer and where our downfalls are overall in the sport.
cheers.

The Insider

horseflesh wrote:

I hindsight it was crazy for the FAI to appoint someone with absolutely no experience working with senior players (correct me if I'm wrong).

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I guess League of Ireland management expierence does not count as they are not 'senior players'. If your going to comment on something at least know the basic facts. Who did Arsene Wenger manager before Aresnal????

growler

as a nation we have been punching above our weight for some time, our expectations were wildly raised in the crazy days of Charlton and Co. we've never readjusted our expectations to cope with the realities of Ireland's potential squad and the resources we have to hand. As mentioned above, it's 4th in line behind GAA and Rugby here which has a direct impact on the numbers and quality of homegrown talent coming through, the pool of actual players is so small that it's impossible for us to compete against so many other countries with either larger populations and/or soccer as their national game.


I imagine that we'll keep going along at our current level for some time, competing fiercely but with little to show for it, maybe beating England or taking some other big scalps along the way to reinject national pride and interest, but ultimately we're not going to be a true competitor at European or World levels.

If this attitude of lower expectations is accepted by the Irish soccer fan then the knock on effect will be reduced interest and maybe attendances.

Maybe the Irish descendents will continue to produce players for the Republic, maybe we will succeed on the back of these imports, but it's a long shot and not something that the FAI can plan for or rely upon for the future.

I've always loved watching Ireland fight it out with the big guys, but I think that purely because of the resources available to the Republic it won't go on in the foreseeable future. Our glory days were largely due to a lucky combination of unorthodox tactics and a great squad of super-motivated players, our tactics won't always work anymore and the depth of our squad was sadly highlighted again lastnight.

IMO it don't look good.

The Insider

colster wrote:

The problem with the Irish team is that bar Keane we don't have a quality central midfielder. Kilbane was exposed last night.
Kerr isn't the problem. It's central midfield thats the problem.

Spot on, Kilbane was out of his depth last night. There is only so much Kerr can do with the players he has. Do you think we could get another manager to come in and get more out of the players?? I just can't see why Kerr is getting so much stick.

Pal

We could start by building a proper place to play football.

jubbly

(where is it all going wrong, but dont mention the players ? They have something to do with why things have gone wrong.)

Well in fairness, Ireland didnt beat the weaker teams in this group for whatever reason. If we were maximisim our potentinal we wouldnt be in this mess. In short its nothing to do with over achieving. Were underachievening .

I think it comes down to the national physche. We leave everything to the last until there is a huge amount of pressure on a game. Countries like Spain (usually) qualify by doing everything right - winning the easy games. We have always done it the hard way. Its not acceptable anymore.

Tatically we have to set our stall out. Are we a long ball team or a footballing team ? When we go behind and we need to win a game we go for long ball. Its pretty obvious that we are pathetic at the long ball now and there is no point in trying to play it. We have our own style of play and when the long ball starts we bypass our most 2 creative players. This plan b has to be binned. We need different strikers on, even if they are young. Elliott etc. And continue to play the way we play best.

Kerr isnt the problem. Eoin Hand was castgated by Irish people for the simple reason that he was irish. He was simply unlucky. Mac Carthy and Jack were both complete diots, Jack destroyed underage football in ireland and was nothing short of a dictator who played ugly football.

It took Micko 3 attempts to make it to the world cup and he was lucky. Anyone calling for Kerr to resign is a idiot. THey havent a clue about Irish soccer and have obviously been ignoring previous managers poor run.

The FAI was (are?) never particluarly efficent , well organised, democratic, etc. It was corupt, inefficent, and never looked after the intrest of the irish game. They are partly to blame. For example, we were humilated in the French media when they wrote articles about the state of lansdowne road (quotes like " the stench of piss that leaves one blind after going to the toilets"). The fact that the FAI couldnt even build a stadium says a lot of incompeteness. The GAA built theirs and they had no World Cup 90 , 94, 02.

The fact that after 15 years of making the first world cup our players are still technically poor says a lot about the FAI. Its only recently that a technical development plan has been produced and its in danger of not even getting proper funding. Players like doc have absolutely no technical ability whatsoever. If robbie was taught maybe he wouldnt be so fustrating today and would have been playing in one of the top 4 EPL clubs week in week out.

Another problem is the Eircom League. Some people who support Ireland completely overlook it and think its just a stupid waste of time. The league could have produced far more managers for the national side (saving the FAI tons of cash) and managers who have far better tatcial knowledge after their team being tested in the champions league. Similarly with players, we might be able to draw in players with CL experience in positions that we are stuck.

The Insider

jubbly wrote:

Kerr isnt the problem. Eoin Hand was castgated by Irish people for the simple reason that he was irish. He was simply unlucky. Mac Carthy and Jack were both complete diots, Jack destroyed underage football in ireland and was nothing short of a dictator who played ugly football.

It took Micko 3 attempts to make it to the world cup and he was lucky. Anyone calling for Kerr to resign is a idiot. THey havent a clue about Irish soccer and have obviously been ignoring previous managers poor run.

Have to agree 100% with the above quote. Overall a excellant post most sensible thing I have read since the Irish game.

jimbling

again with your inconsistency... i've never seen anything like it...

jubbly wrote:

Tatically we have to set our stall out. Are we a long ball team or a footballing team ? When we go behind and we need to win a game we go for long ball. Its pretty obvious that we are pathetic at the long ball now and there is no point in trying to play it. We have our own style of play and when the long ball starts we bypass our most 2 creative players. This plan b has to be binned. We need different strikers on, even if they are young. Elliott etc. And continue to play the way we play best.

followed by...

jubbly wrote:

Kerr isnt the problem.

surely Kerr is in charge tactically??? or do you think its us here on boards that decide the tactics

jubbly wrote:

Anyone calling for Kerr to resign is a idiot. THey havent a clue about Irish soccer and have obviously been ignoring previous managers poor run

okay.. calling for Kerr to resign might be a bit harsh.. but sticking your head in the clouds and pretending its not his fault is just naive. And not complaining about Kerr, just because he is better than the other managers we have had is also naive.

and whiskeyman.. I know you want to leave out managers and team etc.. but I think that thats going to be tough... and there's just not that much that can be done on that front... and not much that hasn't been mentioned already... and also your title is wrong if thats what you want to talk about...

jubbly

jimbling I dont see any problem with my inconsistency. I wasnt 100% sure if we can win our next two games but I said I think we can do it. Are you so confident ?

As for kerr , he is responsible for the tatical approach to the game but not 100% so. Im talking about how Ireland should play its football. I think there is a bigger debate that goes on in Irish footballing circles and Kerr (like any manger) take account of some that and adjusts as he sees fit. I dont think Kerr is able (like Mick or Jack ) to decide which is the best way to play exclusively on his own. Thats not to say that Kerr is incompetent or should go. Mac Carthy got away with murder playing Duff as a striker when it was all wrong. How long did he persist with that until he (was more or less told to) stopped?

im not saying Kerr is beyond repoach. And no boards.ie doesnt pick the ireland team. The footballing public kind of decide which way we want to go.. for example the people decided Fidel Charlton had to go because we didnt like the long ball stuff anymore and it wasnt effective, he didnt want to go. The people more or less wanted Micko out and picked Kerr for the new manager remember ?

The FAI are never going to press ahead with anything on their own accord. The whole technical development plan is an off shoot from the Saipain farce. Its usually results from pressure from the public.

Necronomicon

jubbly wrote:

Anyone calling for Kerr to resign is a idiot. THey havent a clue about Irish soccer and have obviously been ignoring previous managers poor run.

Fair enough if you think it's harsh that people are calling for his head. But in all of your posts you seem to completely clear Brian Kerr of any wrong doings or any responsibility for our performances. And then you call others idiotic.

jubbly

Kerr has made mistakes defintely. The point I was making is that I dont think he should be fired straight away.

Praetorian

The Insider wrote:

Have to agree 100% with the above quote. Overall a excellant post most sensible thing I have read since the Irish game.

We've never had a great manager.

Jack used the tactics that he knew would work and they did. I've seen some tapes recently of some of his matches in charge and that was a quality Irish team. He was never going to win the world cup with that team, no matter what tactics he used. He did pretty well for the country, and he practically had godly status in Ireland. It's amazing how quickly people have forgotten that.

McCarthy was poor tactically, but his teams could come back into a game after a bad first half, which was impressive. Saipan; I would blame him for
the Roy Keane thing as much as I'd blame Roy, two very proud men. But the same thing would never happen to Kerr.

Kerr picks the right teams and gets them to play pretty decent football at times. We don't score many goals, and we frequently miss sitters but that's not his fault. He hasn't a clue what to do when in front though; he doesn't seem to realise that often the best form of defense is attack which is unfortunate. I believe his team talks (having not heard one) seem to be pretty weak, as they rarely seem to impact the game in the second half. Players that are making certain errors in the first half, aren't pulled up on them, and proceed to make the same stupid mistakes. This is one of Kerr's weakness's wheras McCarthy seemed to address problems like this in my eyes.

If we don't qualify, then I think Kerr should resign or should be let go, because we should have at least got to the world cup.

If we do qualify, then I think his future should depend on how well we do there. I'm realistic, I don't expect us to win the thing, but getting out of the group stages and or one round further would be fine.

I'd love to have a great manager some day, someone as decent as Martin O'Neill, or Ferguson etc

jimbling

jubbly wrote:

jimbling I dont see any problem with my inconsistency. I wasnt 100% sure if we can win our next two games but I said I think we can do it. Are you so confident ?

well I wasnt commenting on that one.. but now that you mention it that wasnt it... what you did say was that you werent sure we could beat cyprus or the swiss. Then a few posts later you say you think we'll do it (one could say one is half empty - and the other half full - it just looks like a contradiction).... one is allowed to change their mind about these things.... so no worries.

jubbly wrote:

As for kerr , he is responsible for the tatical approach to the game but not 100% so. Im talking about how Ireland should play its football. I think there is a bigger debate that goes on in Irish footballing circles and Kerr (like any manger) take account of some that and adjusts as he sees fit. I dont think Kerr is able (like Mick or Jack ) to decide which is the best way to play exclusively on his own. Thats not to say that Kerr is incompetent or should go. Mac Carthy got away with murder playing Duff as a striker when it was all wrong. How long did he persist with that until he (was more or less told to) stopped?

im not saying Kerr is beyond repoach. And no boards.ie doesnt pick the ireland team. The footballing public kind of decide which way we want to go.. for example the people decided Fidel Charlton had to go because we didnt like the long ball stuff anymore and it wasnt effective, he didnt want to go. The people more or less wanted Micko out and picked Kerr for the new manager remember ?

this is unreal... wtf are you on about....

so micko was fcuking up putting duff on as a striker.. people gave out stink about him as a manager due to this... he changed..

"Fidel Charlton" had to go because we didnt like the long ball stuff.. so it changed..

so why is it we can't give out about Kerr... it makes no sense. IT WAS Kerrs decision to put on DOC and go for the long ball.... no one elses.

look I have no argument for you points except you seem to think that kerrs job is ....... what do you think his job is? We have every right to disagree with and put down his tactics... i just dont understand where you are coming from..... apologies if I am misunderstanding you.. but thats the way it looks...

jimbling

jubbly wrote:

Kerr has made mistakes defintely. The point I was making is that I dont think he should be fired straight away.

thats the problem... that has not been your point... as far as I can judge your point has been that none of this is his fault, and we shouldn't be bad mouthing him. The only people who were saying he should be fired straight away were probably just caught up in the moment.. and annoyed by the loss last night. I mean realisticly, it would be unbelievable silly to fire him with two games to go to qualify... would never happen... its if we fail (and god willing we wont) to qualify that people are really talking about..

CrazySka

I think the expectation is too high for the national team, like many other areas we as a nation started to believe the hype surounding the team. dont get me wrong we have a decent pool of player which should give us the ability of reaching the odd major finals but in a country of 4 million people with so much interest in other sports (as mentioned before GAA, Rugby etc) it s pretty unlikely that we were ever going to get a great team. I believe the main factor in having a decent team rather than a poor one is the proximity to the UK anyway, if we were located anywhere else we would probably have a team of the same calibre of say Finland or Iceland.
We are a nation of optimists and too much optimism leads to expectation tbh i think we're all to blame for hoping too much of an average group of players.

Necronomicon

john_dub wrote:

We are a nation of optimists and too much optimism leads to expectation tbh i think we're all to blame for hoping too much of an average group of players.

The majority or our players play in one of the best leagues in the world. We have some very good players. I think if we had a world class manager, someone in the same calibur as Ferguson, Wenger or Mourinho, we'd be able to progress very well.

jimbling

john_dub wrote:

I think the expectation is too high for the national team, like many other areas we as a nation started to believe the hype surounding the team. dont get me wrong we have a decent pool of player which should give us the ability of reaching the odd major finals but in a country of 4 million people with so much interest in other sports (as mentioned before GAA, Rugby etc) it s pretty unlikely that we were ever going to get a great team. I believe the main factor in having a decent team rather than a poor one is the proximity to the UK anyway, if we were located anywhere else we would probably have a team of the same calibre of say Finland or Iceland.
We are a nation of optimists and too much optimism leads to expectation tbh i think we're all to blame for hoping too much of an average group of players.

let us not forget Greece.... effort and heart will go a long way.


you are right though... our expectations get a bit high from time to time...

but I think having our expectations high is far better than having them low... where it would be accepted that we lose and don't make finals... we will just get into a rut that way.

kaimera

Pal wrote:

We could start by building a proper place to play football.

we do. it's called Croke Park

soccer on the other hand...

jimbling

Necromomicon wrote:

The majority or our players play in one of the best leagues in the world. We have some very good players. I think if we had a world class manager, someone in the same calibur as Ferguson, Wenger or Mourinho, we'd be able to progress very well.

but how many of them are established first teamers who play week in week out.... not that many.. and that is a problem which has to be looked at.

And the second problem is that the squad is just not good enough, I think there is a big gap between our first team and our backup players.

In saying that, I do agree with you, that with a quality manager, and confidence instilled in the players.. then we would go much further. But that could probably be said about most international teams. And it is unlikely ever to happen.

Necronomicon

jimbling wrote:

but how many of them are established first teamers who play week in week out.... not that many.. and that is a problem which has to be looked at.

A lot of our players play integral parts for their clubs; Shay Given has been one of the only shining lights for Newcastle in recent times, Carr is also in the first team. Finnan played an important role in Liverpool's Champions League campaign. Cunningham is vital for Brum, as is Dunne for Man City. Reid, Duff, regulars for Spurs and Chelsea respectively. Roy Keane, captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world.

I think there is a big gap between our first team and our backup players.

I would have to agree with this. If ever there was an example, it was last night when Kerr's options for getting back into the game were Doherty and Harte.

jubbly

well I wasnt commenting on that one.. but now that you mention it that wasnt it... what you did say was that you werent sure we could beat cyprus or the swiss. Then a few posts later you say you think we'll do it (one could say one is half empty - and the other half full - it just looks like a contradiction).... one is allowed to change their mind about these things.... so no worries.

In fairness it isnt a contradiction. I had a think about it and reckoned we can do it. A contradiction would be if I said - we cant do it and then turned around and said we can. Sometimes with Ireland its hard to call and Im never 100%.


Kerr's job is defintely to manage the team and pick the right formation and approach for the game. I think he has stuck with our strongest formation 4-4-2 in the important games and put on the best player in the position. For that I cant really fault him.

this is unreal... wtf are you on about....

??

so micko was fcuking up putting duff on as a striker.. people gave out stink about him as a manager due to this... he changed..

Duff a key player who plays his best football out on the wing running at players was played out of position up front where he rarely scores a goal. It was a big mistake by Micko which everyone pointed out. Eventually the penny dropped.

"Fidel Charlton" had to go because we didnt like the long ball stuff.. so it changed..

Yes he had to, he didnt want to go but his day had come, everyone found out our game plan and dealt with it.

so why is it we can't give out about Kerr... it makes no sense. IT WAS Kerrs decision to put on DOC and go for the long ball.... no one elses.

I was pointing out that the two previous managers were making mistakes until they got it right. But people werent asking them to resign after one WCQ. Im not saying Kerr is beyond questioning. Kerr has made mistakes alright, and he should face questions, I was just saying that I dont think he should get fired now.

The charges that he messed up is , the players are not properly motivated, the team is too cautious and doesnt go for a win, and plan B consists of lumping the ball forward when were clearly not good at it anymore instead of bringing on other forwards and continue to play our game. Plus when there is an injury or we score a goal or they score a goal we look helpless.

Some of that I would agree is Kerrs fault. Some of it I wouldnt, at the end of the day I dont think Kerr should be fired over it.

jimbling

Necromomicon wrote:

A lot of our players play integral parts for their clubs; Shay Given has been one of the only shining lights for Newcastle in recent times, Carr is also in the first team. Finnan played an important role in Liverpool's Champions League campaign. Cunningham is vital for Brum, as is Dunne for Man City. Reid, Duff, regulars for Spurs and Chelsea respectively. Roy Keane, captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world.

your right......
and obviously there is no question about Shay Givan, who for me is one of the three most important players for Ireland at the moment (Keane and Cunningham the others).

is reid regular for spurs?? I was going to ask this myself. Has he tied down the spot... because fair dues if he has.. they seem to have an abundance of midfielders... so no easy task.

CrazySka

The majority or our players play in one of the best leagues in the world. We have some very good players. I think if we had a world class manager, someone in the same calibur as Ferguson, Wenger or Mourinho, we'd be able to progress very well.

No offence but if your going to say that you could say that if West Brom or Wigan got one of the managers listed above they could be a top team in five years, its possible but we all know its not gonna happen.

jem

Hi all,
in order for things to improve there needs to be money spent in the small towns all over ireland- this is now being done, attract more kids to play the game standards will improve. make the league of ireland attractive to more people. again more watching more playing, and an avenue for players there is a better chance of attracting the more talented kids to play soccer than teh grab all ass or rugby.
The reality is that we had a golden period under jack where we happened to have a good group of players at the same time(stealing some from other countries etc). this (wasted) golden period inspired kids to play the game so we have the likes of DD etc playing soccer rather than hurling or rugby. If things go well with this team another age group could be simularly inspired.
Money must be spent on coaching, pitches etc etc
the regular crap in fighting from the fai must stop as it is negative and the more possitives the better.
We need to egt lucky with this team.

jimbling

jubbly wrote:

In fairness it isnt a contradiction. I had a think about it and reckoned we can do it. A contradiction would be if I said - we cant do it and then turned around and said we can. Sometimes with Ireland its hard to call and Im never 100%.


Kerr's job is defintely to manage the team and pick the right formation and approach for the game. I think he has stuck with our strongest formation 4-4-2 in the important games and put on the best player in the position. For that I cant really fault him.



??


Duff a key player who plays his best football out on the wing running at players was played out of position up front where he rarely scores a goal. It was a big mistake by Micko which everyone pointed out. Eventually the penny dropped.

Yes he had to, he didnt want to go but his day had come, everyone found out our game plan and dealt with it.



I was pointing out that the two previous managers were making mistakes until they got it right. But people werent asking them to resign after one WCQ. Im not saying Kerr is beyond questioning. Kerr has made mistakes alright, and he should face questions, I was just saying that I dont think he should get fired now.

The charges that he messed up is , the players are not properly motivated, the team is too cautious and doesnt go for a win, and plan B consists of lumping the ball forward when were clearly not good at it anymore instead of bringing on other forwards and continue to play our game. Plus when there is an injury or we score a goal or they score a goal we look helpless.

Some of that I would agree is Kerrs fault. Some of it I wouldnt, at the end of the day I dont think Kerr should be fired over it.

look I don't really know what your up to. You started out arguing that none of this was Kerrs fault... and I can put up quotes on this if necessary.. NOw you have changed your tune and saying it was all about not firing him... but I wasn't disagreeing with that.

And this post... don't know why you are quoting me and commenting.. you are basically just agreeing with me. lets just end this topic... and continue the talk on tactics and players etc... okay

jubbly

i was saying a lot of the problems with ireland arent kerrs fault. Although he has made some mistakes. I was also saying kerr shouldnt be fired. Its as simple as that really.

PHB

Heres my problem with Kerr:

He isn't tactically skilled, like say Mourinho or Benetiz, that can be ok.

Managers like Keegan etc didn't have that either, but they did well. Why?
They are incredible motivators and get the best out of their players.
But Kerr doesn't do that either.

Infact what is Kerr's best quality? What qualities does he have over any premiership manager?

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As for our players, it is simple maths.
We have 4 million people.
However we have a highly developed nation, so when nearly all people have access to sports.
If every single GAA player, who are motivated dedicated athletes, played Soccer, I have absolutely no doubt that many of them would be playing in Premiership football.
But they aren't.
The only way to fix this is to get FAI to go absolute nuts, I mean crazy crazy money spent on getting every single kid of the next generation of football stars to play soccer, and soccer only.

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As for the current team:

Top class Goalie

1 Top class right back(Finnan)
1 Quality Right back(Carr)
1 Quality leader CB
2 Above average CB's
1 Quality Left Back
1 World Class DMC
1 World Class Left Winger
2 Above average left winger(Kilbane,Reid)
2 Average CM's(Holland,Kavanagh)
1 Quality Striker(Keane)
1 Above average Striker(Morrission)

I don't think thats a bad first 14 or so.
But people are worried about post Cunningham/Keane.

Future up and coming players:

McShane
Tierney
Sean Kelly

These guys, maybe not Tierney, are going to be the backbone of the Irish defense/midfield, so we won't be too bad in 4 years tbh.