united fans rant

wheres me jumpa

i was at the manchester derby yesterday and i have come back with a very bad opinion of some of the fans. and a bad opinion of some english people.

the main problem being the fact that drink was being served at the game. this lead to being surrounded by drunken fools before, during and after the game. there was a crowd of english fans in front of us and the missed over half of the game as they were too busy slurring chants and staggering up and down in their seats.

city equalised and the crowd went dead. a few years back when a team scored against united the fans would start screaming united united united immediately. but yesterday there was no screaming. just silence. the atmosphere never recovered. 1-1 coming into the last few minutes of the 90, united pushing for a winner (which giggs nearly got) and about 1/4 oft he fans left. once the clock passed 90 about 50% of the crowd left. this was with three minutes of added time to play.

out on the street not one fan is talking about what went wrong, who played well etc., all you can hear is f**cking city w***kers. one city fan made the mistake of walking between the united fans and got attacked. down at the metro station the reason for all this becomes apparent. most of the fans are twisted drunk. louts falling around the place, getting aggressive with the cops. there was even guys standing on the street selling cans of what was clearly a classy drink. england has a huge problem with asbo's and at five o clock on a saturday it was clear why.

now i know im taking a very narrow view on this as there were so many fans i didnt come in contact with. but any game i have gone to in croke park, lansdowne road, even games in america (baseball, football), the focus is the game and getting behind the team. for me this didnt happen yesterday and it hasnt happened in home premiership games for a long time with the exception of some of the big games, arsenal liverpool etc.

i know im likely to p off many a united fan with this and i apologise in advance. im just expressing my opinion and i would like to hear yours.

might i add that every irish fan we met was a pleasure. from the moment we stepped into dublin airport yesterday morning, football was the topic of conversation with the united, arsenal, leeds and liverpool fans we met.

Squirrel

That was pretty much the same as myself at the Ireland game on wednesday, if the fans would get behind the team instead of screaming abuse at everyone on the pitch it would be a better atmosphere, and drink shouldn't be served at any matches IMO

Necronomicon

Remember as well, English fans get to go to Old Trafford week in, week out so they can take it more for granted than Irish fans in a way. The English fans have to go back to work on monday where they'll have a lot of City fan collegues, so no wonder they were upset.

one city fan made the mistake of walking between the united fans and got attacked. down at the metro station the reason for all this becomes apparent.

Well, while there's no defending something like that, (what do you mean by 'attacked' by the way?) people like that are in the minority.

When I was at the Milan game in February I went to a bar afterwards and there was a lot of English United fans who were upset, but there was a big discussion in the section I was sitting in where the fans were debating sensibly what the problems were and where we went wrong, so I didn't encounter any drunk, misbehaving fans.

wheres me jumpa

he was attacked in that he was pushed towards me then pushed to the ground and after that im not sure the crowd was moving along. strange thing was the cops were on a platform recording the crowd moving along and they had to have seen but nothing was done.

a friend of mine is a milan supporter at the milan game and he said he was in a open square in the city. there were alot of united fans standing around drinking. they then started to play football which then turned turned into kicking the balls high into the sky over seating area's for restaurants/bars/cafe. he also said he went over with united fans who were a great laugh.

so i think its clear that there is definitely two sides to every story. undoubtedly united have many a good fan. also as you pointed out, the fact that a game means more to me than a fan who might go every week. its still just a little dissappointing to see a lack of interest in getting behind the team from fans who would appear to call themselves hardcore.

moshpit77

I go to see Arsenal play a couple of times a season, there's drink served at the stadium but I can honestly say I've never seen any drunken louts. After the game the supporters congregate in the bars around, have a few drinks and a laugh and talk about the game, what went right, what went wrong etc. I've seen away team supporters in the bars too and while there's some verbal slanging matches sometimes it's always in good humour and never gets out of hand

Maybe it's different up north, it's a well known fact that most Manchester Utd fans aren't from Manchester anyway.

Guy:Incognito

wheres me jumpa wrote:

a friend of mine is a milan supporter at the milan game and he said he was in a open square in the city. there were alot of united fans standing around drinking. they then started to play football which then turned turned into kicking the balls high into the sky over seating area's for restaurants/bars/cafe. he also said he went over with united fans who were a great laugh..

From all reports and from tv pictures, Liverpool fans were all drinking in Istanbul, but there was no trouble, just a lot of people enjoying themselves. So it can't all be drink. It's the individuals themselves. Certain people go out to fight.

jonny68

By all accounts a lot of the genuine Man United fans from Manchester don't bother going to the home games anymore over the Glazer thing plus the atmosphere is so cr*p and you can hardly blame them when you have "fans" there usually foreigners who look at people who attempt to sing as if they've ten heads or something.

It can be similar @ Celtic Park as i well know but not as bad as Old Traford,i feel sorry for genuine United fans

Memnoch

jonny68 wrote:

By all accounts a lot of the genuine Man United fans from Manchester don't bother going to the home games anymore over the Glazer thing plus the atmosphere is so cr*p and you can hardly blame them when you have "fans" there usually foreigners who look at people who attempt to sing as if they've ten heads or something.

It can be similar @ Celtic Park as i well know but not as bad as Old Traford,i feel sorry for genuine United fans

ya damn those foreigners! how dare they go to a football match for entertainment and pretending to support a team! and damn them for not singing along with our songs because that's the kind of behaviour we think is required of a true fan. Sometimes they even look at us because we are so horribly out of tune it would make any real singer turn in their grave.

Burn them all i say!!









*for those that didn't get it the above was brought to you from sarcasm.com

PHB

From all reports and from tv pictures, Liverpool fans were all drinking in Istanbul, but there was no trouble, just a lot of people enjoying themselves. So it can't all be drink. It's the individuals themselves. Certain people go out to fight.

I'm sorry but didn't one of them murder somebody?

Drink is indeed the problem, drink leads to violence especially after football matches when tempers are flaired.
I've been told by many people that violence like this goes on all the time at premiership matches, but its just not reported cause it would be very bad for the premiership's clean image to be tarnished.
Bit of a media cover up tbh

wheres me jumpa

hold on. im not complaining about people who were chanting or "chanting out of tune". im complaining about the fact that so many fans were drunk, so many fans left so early and so many fans failed to get behind the team when city equalised. im not passing any comments on any other teams fans.

european matches generally have a better atmosphere and better mix of fans. i have felt over the last few seasons, home support for united in premiership games hasnt been great. home support for united games in europe has been great. i had two friends at the ac milan game at ot and they said the crowd was amazing.

RedorDead

wheres me jumpa wrote:

a friend of mine is a milan supporter at the milan game and he said he was in a open square in the city. there were alot of united fans standing around drinking. they then started to play football which then turned turned into kicking the balls high into the sky over seating area's for restaurants/bars/cafe. he also said he went over with united fans who were a great laugh.

I was in that Milan square in March, great craic alltogether. The Milan and Utd fans mixed well and had a great time. And the cops were quite friendly and let the drinking and singing progress. Away fans are always the most passionate and most serious about the club and will always support their club through thick and thin.

Drink is the big problem when it comes to english football fans. In all the utd games ive travelled to, the fans from manchester are always great until they get drunk, after that they become wa*kers.

As mentioned before alot of the more passionate united fans dont go to the glazerdome for any more home games and have setup their own club FC United of Manchester, which may have something to do with the lack of atmosphere. From listening on rte on saturday, the atmosphere sounded fairly good up until the goal?

Highlander

PHB wrote:

I'm sorry but didn't one of them murder somebody?

Drink is indeed the problem, drink leads to violence especially after football matches when tempers are flaired.
I've been told by many people that violence like this goes on all the time at premiership matches, but its just not reported cause it would be very bad for the premiership's clean image to be tarnished.
Bit of a media cover up tbh

That was in Bulgaria, days after the final

The Muppet

PHB wrote:

I'm sorry but didn't one of them murder somebody?

Indeed and fled to leave someone else to take the rap for it the scallywag.


What the OP witnesses on Saturday is real life modern society . The thugs just use football as the conduit for their anti social behaviour. It's the same in most football grounds and is creeping into GAA in this country too. Until clubs start turfing out those guilty it will continue.

cournioni

I've been to alot of United games including games against City, Liverpool and Arsenal and I've never seen any of this happen. It is obviously individual idiots causing trouble not the fans in general.

Necronomicon

wheres me jumpa wrote:

i had two friends at the ac milan game at ot and they said the crowd was amazing.

It was until Crespo scored Then you could have heard a penny drop. Although it didn't take long for everyone to start shouting again.

deisedevil

Not all but a small minority of english fans are thugs and drunken louts who go to football matches, they are famous for it and have a huge problem with hooliganism.(before someone says it they're not the only country) So why are there people posting about they're surprise and disgust at their actions, old problem that won't change if ya ask me. I have a lot of friends who go to man utd games every year(going myself this year) and they have never seen any trouble whatsoever so it can't be too bad.
Have ta say i'm seriously proud that every year i can head ta thurles,cork or dublin and never have any hassle only the usual banter and craic, no gangs of thugs roaring chants of f***ing cork wan*** and looking to get a fight going.
Ya like anything there is bound to be a stupid fight here and there but in 10 years i can honestly say i have never seen two opposite fans going for each other. same when the irish go abroad for ireland matches, no trouble just goin for the craic.england can rarely play abroad without their hooligan element following them around looking for trouble(no i'm not talking bout the many honest english fans) how can two countries right beside each other be so different.
From the muppet"What the OP witnesses on Saturday is real life modern society . The thugs just use football as the conduit for their anti social behaviour. It's the same in most football grounds and is creeping into GAA in this country too. Until clubs start turfing out those guilty it will continue."
Forgot to ask where you seeing this hooligansim occuring? Very surprised to see that.

The Muppet

deisedevil wrote:

From the muppet"What the OP witnesses on Saturday is real life modern society . The thugs just use football as the conduit for their anti social behaviour. It's the same in most football grounds and is creeping into GAA in this country too. Until clubs start turfing out those guilty it will continue."
Forgot to ask where you seeing this hooligansim occuring? Very surprised to see that.

I was refering to the verbal abuse that the OP reported . Once the verbal get,s out of hand it's only a matter of time until people loose the head and retaliate and the situation deteriorates into physical violence .

Have a read of the article below, Joe Kernan is not the only person voicing concern about player abuse at GAA games .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=293345

ARMAGH manager Joe Kernan has called on genuine football supporters to band together in an effort to eradicate what he describes as "a serious and dangerous increase" in the level of abuse hurled at players and managements.

He has also urged the GAA to ensure that tickets are allocated so that substitutes and management are surrounded by supporters from their own county, rather than finding themselves being abused and taunted by rival supporters from close range.

Kernan was angry on Saturday when some Laois supporters, who were seated directly behind the Armagh management, kept up a vocal barrage right through the game.

"It was absolutely disgusting. I've been in involved in this game a long time and I'm not exactly a shrinking violet, but I was shocked by the vulgarity and the level of venom directed at us," said Kernan.

"A friend of mine and his family, who were in the Hogan Stand, asked to be moved because they couldn't put up with what was being said. Fair play to a steward - he found them different seats, but the fact that they had to move is a sad commentary on the way things are going," said Kernan.

However, a Laois supporter, who contacted the Irish Independent yesterday, told a similar story only in this case, Armagh fans were the guilty parties.

He said the level of intimidation and aggression was totally unacceptable and, at one stage, a steward and a Garda were called after complaints by Laois supporters that they were being intimidated by Armagh followers.

Kernan said that he despised the practice irrespective of which county was involved. He was also critical of the GAA for not taking more care with the ticket distribution.

"I don't understand why a couple of hundred tickets can't be given to the competing counties so that subs and management have their own people near them. It makes perfect sense, but it doesn't seem to be happening, certainly not where Armagh are concerned anyway," he said.

There was a particularly ugly incident during the Armagh-Tyrone Ulster final replay when Armagh wing-back Ciarán McKeever was attacked as he made his way to the substitutes' bench on the Hogan Stand after being sent off.

Peter McKenna, the Croke Park Stadium Director, explained that every effort is made to surround substitutes and management with supporters from their own county, but that it wasn't always possible for games that didn't attract a very big crowd.

"When tickets go back out for general sale, it's impossible to dictate where they will go. We're conscious of trying to avoid having supporters too close to the subs and management teams from other counties, but unfortunately it happens sometimes, as seems to be the case on Saturday."

However, the good news is that this will be the last year that substitutes and managements will be directly exposed to supporters. New covered dug-outs are to be built during the close season and will be in operation next summer.

"We're consulting widely to make sure everybody is happy with them," said McKenna. "We think it's the best way forward because we're conscious that there has been some difficulties."

While Kernan welcomed the news of the new dug-outs, he believes there's a wider malaise which genuine supporters should tackle.

"No question about it, the level of abuse and the sheer vulgarity has increased dramatically in recent years. It might even be confined to football because I heard none of it at the Galway-Kilkenny hurling game on Sunday and it wasn't as if that game lacked intensity.

"Maybe hurling supporters are a different breed. Both Kilkenny and Galway people seemed content to back their own teams rather than abuse the opposition and those in charge of them."

Kernan wants genuine supporters to make it clear to trouble-makers from their own counties that they won't tolerate having the opposition abused.

"I wouldn't repeat some of the stuff that was said to use on Saturday. It was unbelievably vulgar. I'm not saying Armagh fans are angels either, but as far as I'm concerned anybody who abuses the other side is a trouble-maker. I would like to see decent supporters call these people to order - it's about the only way this horrible practice can be stopped.

"The danger is that if it continues, it will create a very nasty atmosphere on the stands and terraces, which is the last thing we want.

"The fact that GAA supporters have always been able to mix and mingle before, during and after games is something that we should be proud of and it would be dreadful if anything were allowed to interfere with that."

p.pete

PHB wrote:

I'm sorry but didn't one of them murder somebody?

Someone was murdered yes, also someone was convicted (though probably not the right person). The offence was a waiter getting his head bashed in with a concrete slab, and was most likely carried out by a Liverpudlian.

This offence happened in a different country to where the match was played and not on the same day either - why the hell did you drag it into the thread? Has no United fan ever killed a fellow human within days of a football match? It was a disgusting act but I don't see for a second how it can be considered football related.

On another note - while the Liverpool support were all drinking I don't think they had much interaction with the opposition support. Cities are usually split in two for CL finals, the fans generally being cordoned off from each other for the entire day.

However, I think this thread has more relevance to supporters at their home ground. United / Liverpool / Arsenal etc. fans are bound to be much more dedicated and concerned about the football at away matches - they're making more of an effort to be there and tickets are pretty much reserved for the more devoted fans.

ntlbell

wheres me jumpa wrote:

h so many fans left so early and so many fans failed to get behind the team when city equalised. im not passing any comments on any other teams fans.

home support for united in premiership games hasnt been great. home support for united games in europe has been great. i had two friends at the ac milan game at ot and they said the crowd was amazing.

There's no point blaming the fans for this, united teams in the past have been hungry, played out of their skin, when things weren't going right they battled and fought hard for the last minute winner, and this is what drives fans.

The players have to give the fans something, it doesn't matter if they go a goal down, as long as the fans see theiry trying hard and giving 100% not one united player could say they gave even close to that on saturday, so personally i don't blame the fans.

growler

as a regular attendee at most home and many away games with Chelsea the OP's story doesn't surprise me in the least, I see it all the time and it's a minority within every club's fan base in the UK and is a hangover from the bad old days of hooliganism. I don't think the drink is necessarily to blame, though it doesn't help (but that can apply to any scenario) , its a mindset that has been with football for a long time, no matter how many cops, stewards, cctv etc you put up, you'll still get some morons intent on causing trouble, these are the same morons who will cause aggro in any city centre on a saturday night.

It doesn't take much for banter / chanting to offend some people who react badly and cause problems, it happens every time I go to Old Trafford, Upton Park or 3 Point Lane, one set of fans takes the pish out of the other, someone takes it personally and reacts, sometimes this carries over to outside mostly it doesn't. I can understand this myself, with such sanitised atmospheres at many grounds these days away supporters think they are oblidged to upset the natives in any way possible, being able to dominate vocally by outsinging the home support is a source of pride, but naturally provokes anger in some home support. That's an integral part of some supporters' agenda when going away. Away support in particular is seen as being the preserve of "hardcore" "genuine" and "passionate" fans, many of them remember or were active in the bad old days, security now prevents most of the bad feeling from spilling over into real violence but of course every now and then it does. Even the Anderlecht fans were causing aggro in Stamford Bridge last night , i thought they''d be nice quiet Belgians!!

What does surprise me about the OP's story was the random attack on a City supporter, mostly the hooliscum tend to fight each other, attacking random supprters is generally outside of the "rules of engagement" of any proper hooligan.

wheres me jumpa

growler wrote:

What does surprise me about the OP's story was the random attack on a City supporter, mostly the hooliscum tend to fight each other, attacking random supprters is generally outside of the "rules of engagement" of any proper hooligan.

im not going to say how random it was as i didnt see how it all started. no doubt this is a minority and its something that will be around for a while. its been a few years since i was at a premiership game and cant remember if drink was been served. when was it introduced? since budweiser became the "official drink of the premier league"?!

also i fully understand that the teams performance drives the fans and united were awful at times last saturday.