Mick Mccarthy?

Timans

what does everyone think of him?
I prsonally think that he is a great manager and brought ireland up the rankings considerably.He has done wonders with sunderland.They have terrible players and he brought them to the premiership.

Post a comment about him and vote in the poll.
I personally think if the whole mess with roy keane is the cause of people hating him.
i think it was roy keanes fault anyway.
What does everyone else think?

Chong

Hate his style of managing, he is also being exposed for how bad his tactics and team are at sunderland. Sunderland for the drop this season.

jubbly

Looking back its easy to say they were good times but time heals all the painful memories.

I hated his style of management and was delighted ot see the back of him. He had so long to make it to a major competition, it was a joke. He should have been fired years before he eventually was.

His best attributes were that the players were motivated and knew what they had to do. Tatically he was retarded and rarely learnt from his mistakes. A slight marginal improvement on Jack / Franco but it was still a very british football that we were playing and I thought it was ugly.

Davei141

jubbly wrote:

but it was still a very british football that we were playing and I thought it was ugly.

Dont know about you but irish matches used to be fun to watch under mick, whether they were friendlies, qualifiers ect. Now its like watching irish matches is something you tolerate than enjoy. The guy deserves our respect and lets not forget, the team he inherited were no were near as talented as this bunch we have now, yet they still attacked.

bohsman

Terrible manager, his shouting the most simplistic messages at the players throughoutthe match was really annoying - pass the ball, defend, push up, kick the ball etc like a foghorn on RTE and surely things pro footballers know anyway

I also blame him completely for Saipan

jubbly

I forgot all about saipain. The man was totally responsible for the whole debacle and should have resigned immediately after the World Cup.

Seaneh

I personally think he did more for the irieh international sceane than any manager before him, was fired unfairly and is a damned sight better than brian kerr.

jubbly

Rofl

Seaneh

ROFL all you want but McCarty wasn't so inept that when his back was against the wall he had to play a terrible centre back as a striker.

The Muppet

Seaneh wrote:

ROFL all you want but McCarty wasn't so inept that when his back was against the wall he had to play a terrible centre back as a striker.

Do we not still do that?


Mick handled/manufactured the Saipan Incident badly which may cost Ireland dearly . We'll never know how we would have done fielding our full strength team. At the very least he showed a lack of man management skills in Saipan and that is a very important attribute for a manager. I don't rate him at all.

Gileadi

dont punish the man for one mistake when he did so well for the other few years he was with the country. back in 2002 the country was fully behind him but once he left and roy came back i noticed alot more people decided to side with royboy than the original 50/50 split

remember that he inherited an aging team of old warhorses from jack charlton and left brian kerr with a young talented squad with lots of potential to outdo any previous irish team which should not be forgotten

Slash/ED

Seaneh wrote:

ROFL all you want but McCarty wasn't so inept that when his back was against the wall he had to play a terrible centre back as a striker.

Mick never used Doherty up front?

He did far worse too, Duff up front. For that I'll never forgive him, the biggest waste of talent I'ce ever seen was that idiotic idea.

cournioni

Big headed arsehole.

Timans

Gileadi wrote:

dont punish the man for one mistake when he did so well for the other few years he was with the country. back in 2002 the country was fully behind him but once he left and roy came back i noticed alot more people decided to side with royboy than the original 50/50 split

remember that he inherited an aging team of old warhorses from jack charlton and left brian kerr with a young talented squad with lots of potential to outdo any previous irish team which should not be forgotten

Couldnt agree with ya more.

whiskeyman

he wasnt great, but he wasnt bad either (hence my "meh" vote).
Still got us to the WC in 2002 and we had a good run considering all that happened.
I still feel that if he was in charge last Wednesday, we would have seen more attempts on goal by Ireland, especially after the French goal and near the last 10mins.
Something has been lacking since Kerr has taken charge.
There just doesnt seem to be any energy or resolve in the squad for some reason.

Crania

Mick McCarthy is a legend and a brilliant manager. I was behind him all the way after Saipan, he was right.

He inherited an old team and basically had to get an entire new Ireland team after Jack. He found and nurtered great young talent, he left Kerr a great team but Kerr has bolloxed it all up cos Kerr is a bad defensive-minded manager.

Mick has also done wonders at Sunderland, he brought them to the Premiership on a shoe-string budget when everyone said that Sunderland were doomed for lower-league mediocrity. Ok, Sunderland will probabaly get relegated this season but that doesn't take away from the miracle Mick has worked there bringing them to the Premiership.

Bring back Mick, Sack Kerr Now!!!

Mossy Monk

it was a great day when we got rid of him. he was nothing more than an stubborn arsehole

CrazySka

Hes a good manager who's been hard done by for a long time.
he was right on saipan-one player cant dictate how a team is run no matter who he is.
hes well short of resources at sunderland and won the league last year with league one players, most of whom are still there.
id like to see him at newcastle instead of souness.

Davei141

The Muppet wrote:

Do we not still do that?


Mick handled/manufactured the Saipan Incident badly which may cost Ireland dearly . We'll never know how we would have done fielding our full strength team. At the very least he showed a lack of man management skills in Saipan and that is a very important attribute for a manager. I don't rate him at all.

Didnt cost ireland anything.. got out of tough group, extremely unfortunate to lose on penalties to the spanish. Of course people will try to say that if keane was playing we would of won all the games and his presence would of made ian harte score his penalty.

[Jackass]

Good thread....lot's of varied opinions on this.

Personally, I think he learned everything he knows in the Irish job...which, let's face it, isn't the place to learn your trade, and afaik he had a poor record at Millwall.
FAI always going for the cheap option as manager. Go for "promosing" managers as apposed to proven managers. Hmmm.....do they have a choice i suppose?

But i think he had his moments as Irish manager, but his time was up after the disgrace show of lack of leadership and management skills in Saipan. Any manager unprofessional enogh to bring personal feelings into a situation like that is a poor manager. Also to do it to his best player (who single handedly dragged us to that world cup kicking and screaming) is shocking. He made it about himself very selfishly, when it was about the country. Who knows what we could have achieved with Roy ion that WC.

His time to go was after the WC, again selfishly i feel stayed on, and then left after he de-railed that qualifying campaign. It took 40,000 people in Landsdowne road to chant "Keano, Keano" in the last 5 minutes of the swiss game and then Boo him off the pitch before he would leave the job.

His attributes are that he's a great motivator, and has balls to try things on the pitch tacticly, and take risks. Basicly, the complete opposite to Brian Kerr.

I wouldn't choose either of them.

jubbly

Mac Carthy had his plus points but he only ever brought a side so far. He can take a bad side and bring them to a decent level but cant take it to the next level. He's a grafter and his life belongs somewhere between the EPL and the English Championship.

He was given so much more time than Kerr, all the contracts he ever wanted even after some pathetic management howlers and terrible campagins. The pathetic low standard was only shown up when our best player decided to call a spade a spade with the exessive drinking culture , bad preperation, and low ambitions that the team under Mc Carthy.

Was any of the Cork or Galway hurlers out on the piss singing Karoke 5 nights before the All Ireland ? FFS

I dont want to go back to the WC 2002 but the fact Roy left rallied the entire team to put on a decent show. None of the players were world class apart from duffer. Its similiar to what happened to Everton this season after Rooney.

That is what is lacking in this Irish team, not the manager, not the formations, its the players, they arent world class and need someone there on the pitch to chase and shout to do what they are meant to do.

Mick Mac Carthy was on the whole a pathetic manager with a retarded learning ability. He got away with blue murder because the FAI scúm wanted him in the job and he had Roy Keane (in his prime) on the pitch to save the game from his pathetic and idiotic decisions(kilbane on the left duff up front). He hadnt a clue about Irish players and could have brought the likes of Kavanagh in years ago.

Mc Carthy just lapped up the praise when we won, ignoring that it was his wrong decisions that got us in the mess we were in and Roy Keane who got the team out of the whole.

Mac Carthy never developed Irish players, he lived off the work of Brian Kerr who is the only manager to date (AFAIK) to bring a major football trophey to Ireland. Charlton was a dictator and destroy the underage set up because he wanted control.

CrazySka

Sorry no disrespect to your views Jubbly but i disagree with a lot of what you said in your last post.

jubbly wrote:

He was given so much more time than Kerr, all the contracts he ever wanted even after some pathetic management howlers and terrible campagins. The pathetic low standard was only shown up when our best player decided to call a spade a spade with the exessive drinking culture , bad preperation, and low ambitions that the team under Mc Carthy.

What terrible campaigns?? When he took over he had to change the whole team but still brought us to the playoffs for WC98. We were 12 seconds away from automatic qualification for euro 2000 before that freak goal against Macedonia, this from a group containing Croatia and Yugoslavia two class teams at the time, an unlucky draw to get Turkey, whats terrible about that?? Low ambitions? he went to the WC to win it, check any transcripts of interviews at the time.

Was any of the Cork or Galway hurlers out on the piss singing Karoke 5 nights before the All Ireland ? FFS

The same could be said of Robbie Keane 2 weeks ago, out on friday and played on Weds, profesional footballers are fit enough to shake off the effects of a few drinks.

Mick Mac Carthy was on the whole a pathetic manager with a retarded learning ability. He got away with blue murder because the FAI scúm wanted him in the job and he had Roy Keane (in his prime) on the pitch to save the game from his pathetic and idiotic decisions(kilbane on the left duff up front). He hadnt a clue about Irish players and could have brought the likes of Kavanagh in years ago.

For a pathetic manager he did well bringing us up from 41st in the world to 14th when he left- doesnt seem like the work of a retard to me.
Keanes been an amazing player for us but hes only one man, McCarthy got the bet out of other players like Harte, McAteer and Kinsella.
Duff was the best option at the time, it was either him or David Connolly.
He gave Kavanagh his first three caps obviously didnt fancy him ahead of Holland, thats fair enough imo.


McCarthy was the first Irish manager since Giles who had us playing attractive football and unlike Giles, he made it work. He changed the mentality from Charltons long ball to a team that could take on continental teams on their own terms and always compete. Micks biggest problem was that he raised our expectation from a nation who were delighted to be there to a team that expects to be there. Kerr was fortunate that he had a precocious group of players as youth team manager but this doesnt make him great, after all someone had to do it, would you credit Houllier with Frances success at the WC and EC. Youth football is completely different.

As for the Saipan issue it boils down to this: A player cannot speak to a manager the way keane did, at any level and the argument is not disputed in any account, ive read keanes, McCarthy's and Quinns book and all three when looked at objectively show Keane in the wrong, a lot of the problems were the fault of the FAI not McCarthy's and to think that the manager has control over the FAI is ludicrous. I stand by my previous post.

john_dub wrote:

Hes a good manager who's been hard done by for a long time.
he was right on saipan-one player cant dictate how a team is run no matter who he is.
hes well short of resources at sunderland and won the league last year with league one players, most of whom are still there.
id like to see him at newcastle instead of souness.

jubbly

I wont dig into the results the Mick got but we all know it took him 3 goes to get to a major finals.

Ireland had always played decent football, its just that Charlton was the first manager to get results.

Roy Keane was a breath of fresh air and had every right to call an end to the shambolic regime. He did so much for the country and Mick got such an easy ride.

it boils down to (As Roy would say)
FAIL TO PREPARE - PREPARE TO FAIL

LizardKing

T'was Terrible.Was sad to see the back of him...

The Muppet

Davei141 wrote:

Didnt cost ireland anything.. got out of tough group, extremely unfortunate to lose on penalties to the spanish. Of course people will try to say that if keane was playing we would of won all the games and his presence would of made ian harte score his penalty.

AS I said We'll never know. BTW we played a 10 man Spain in extra time and our manager never noticed Had he , he could have changed tactics and possibly won through without the need for penalties.

john_dub wrote:

As for the Saipan issue it boils down to this: A player cannot speak to a manager the way keane did, at any level and the argument is not disputed in any account, ive read keanes, McCarthy's and Quinns book and all three when looked at objectively show Keane in the wrong, a lot of the problems were the fault of the FAI not McCarthy's and to think that the manager has control over the FAI is ludicrous. I stand by my previous post.

You are of course entitiled to hold that opinion but leaving aside the vested interests of all three books I would point out to you that the independent genesis report vindicated Keane .

Illkillya

Jubbly speaks a lot of sense. I don't know why the Saipan debate needs to be resurrected. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't see sense at this late stage never will.

As for McCarthy as a club manager - he did well with Sunderland and jubbly summed it up nicely:

Mac Carthy had his plus points but he only ever brought a side so far. He can take a bad side and bring them to a decent level but cant take it to the next level. He's a grafter and his life belongs somewhere between the EPL and the English Championship.

Corben Dallas

Think hes a good manager,maybe slightly lacking in ppl skills> eg Siapan.

Maybe not the calibre of Int Manager but he should go well in Championship/Premiership. However if Sunderland dont start grinding out points Sunderland are goin straight back to the Championship. If u dont keep that likes of Phillips and sign 1/2 more quality players u will be relegated in the current Premiership.
.......
McCarthy was to blame for Saipan, the FAI ****ed up with the facilities and no kit and the blue blazers in the FIA didnt change anything/tolorate critisism.The Irish Times reported this and teh FAI mandarins in merrion went ballistic and i'm sure told McCarthy to sort/give rocket to Roy for talking to IT jounro. McCarthy should have told the FAI idiots to feck off, he would deal with it and sort it with Roy.....>>> privately.

We could have easily made the final 4 in that World Cup with Roy in the team.

Kingp35

Corben Dallas wrote:

We could have easily made the final 4 in that World Cup with Roy in the team.

Are you having a laugh? Ireland are an average team, we have always been an average team and to say that we could have made the semis is a bit much. Roy Keane is only one man and one man can never do anything by himself.

McCarthy was a so so manager. He got unlucky in the 2000 camapign and got us to the World cup in 2002 so it would be unfair to call him a disaster. then again he wasnt a great man manager either as Saipan clearly proved as this lead to us perhaps not living up to the potential that we were showing.
Im not sure if he is a better manager than Kerr. Kerr is by far the better manager when it comes to preperation for games but he is way too defensive and this has cost us points and to be honest we should have been going into the French game sitting comfortably at the top of the group. At least McCarthy sent his teams out and told them to give it a real go which is what I like to see Irish teams do.

If I had teh choice I wouldnt have either of the two of them as Irish manager

Illkillya

Kingp35 wrote:

Are you having a laugh? Ireland are an average team, we have always been an average team and to say that we could have made the semis is a bit much. Roy Keane is only one man and one man can never do anything by himself.

He's not having a laugh.. its a fair thing to say. Yes, Ireland are an average team, but look how well average teams did in that World Cup... South Korea etc. Look how well average teams such as Greece did in the European championships. In fact, even without Roy Keane, we could conceivably have made the semis, since all of the above average teams were playing average.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Corben Dallas

exactly Ikillya.

I not saying Ireland were the super strong team capable to putting away the top form teams and winning the World Cup stright off. I'm saying if u look at the final four, a lot of average teams made the top 4 and Ireland would probably be able to beat these teams + a lot of the Fav teams went out early France etc.

---

"Disagree? Explain away Keane not playing the vital 2nd leg playoff against Iran but playing for Man Utd a couple of days later."

explained in two words: Alex Ferguson*.

*and his mantra >'Footballers should play for Club first, Country second'.
Other way round Alex.

jubbly

Friendlies are meaningless .. especially for established players. Its a chance to try out new players and new formations and players in different positiions etc. We know what Roy is going ot give us. Its pointless him playing.

He might as well play competitively for Man Utd than piss about with the likes of China in Dublin.

If Kerr was manager back then, he probably would have went to IRan

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

CrazySka

Friendlies are not meaningless, they are a valuable chance to foster team spirit and develop understanding between players. They are a chance for the new young players to recieve guidance from the more experienced players on the team and to learn how they will slot into the system.
You cant pick and choose your games, if a player commits to playing for his country he has to give his full support to the cause and give his int manager the same respect he would his club manager.
Keane never understood this and he forced a good manager out of his job, maybe McCarthys man management was flawed at times but maybe part of it was because he had to spend so much time coddling a player who thought/thinks that he was too good for the honour of playing for his country.

jubbly

For a start Roy DID play in all those meaningless friendlies. Second, Roy is such an intelligent player he can play with almost any other midfielder.

I said, If Kerr was manager back then, he probably would have went to Iran

Kingp35

Illkillya wrote:

He's not having a laugh.. its a fair thing to say. Yes, Ireland are an average team, but look how well average teams did in that World Cup... South Korea etc. Look how well average teams such as Greece did in the European championships. In fact, even without Roy Keane, we could conceivably have made the semis, since all of the above average teams were playing average.

No thats where your wrong. Those were average teams but they certainly werent playing average. Both of those teams had very good managers who got it tactically spot on with the players that they had. Greece were an excellent defensive outfit and they used that to their advantage very well. Credit must go to the manager. Gus Hiddink is an excellent international manager and he proved that by taking South Korea so far by getting it tactically spot on.

Mick McCarthy is a totally different story