The Family Feud in Lim. How do you feel about it?

faustngretchen

Hi,

I read the thread about the full scale gang fight and was amazed at the discussion it started. I'm a student of English at the university of Freiburg in Southwest Germany and I stayed in Limerick for 8 months in 2003/04. I never experienced or witnessed any violence but I read the book by Anthony Galvin about the Feud in Limerick and thereupon chose it as on of the topics I am going to talk about in my upcoming oral exam.
It's a good book as it describes the way the feud started and went on over the decades but it fails to describe how people feel about it. How they're affected by the violence. Judging by the amount of posts in the former thread there obviously is a huge desire to talk about that which is why I post this one.
In a thread from 2003 in this forum I read about a girl from Limerick who got really steamed up about being slagged all the time for living in Limerick. In fact this was what happened to me when I first told a friend (in Germany mind you) that I was about to live in Limerick for a couple of months. "Oh you going to Stab City. You sure you wanna do this?" So obviously Limerick's rep must have an enormous radiation. How do you Limerick people feel about this? Are you "proud" of living in such a tough city (like facing the danger from day to day but still managing)? Are you sick of it? Did it change during the last couple of years? Did it get worse or better? Tell me all you think is interesting for me to know.
As for myself during my stay I used to lived in Raheen which was said to be a save neighborhood. But even there (during my stay) gardí found explosives, there was a drive by shooting at the Cresent Mc Donalds (which is basically just down the road from where I used to live) and several stabbings or killings in the city centre or elsewhere in Limerick where on the news. All this happened during my eight months stay. In Freiburg where I've been living now for over five years there haven't been near as many cases of violence or murders as during those eight months I lived in Lim. Maybe it was just because I was so sensitive to news like that or Lim really is a dangerous city.

What do you think?

go raibh maith agat for your posts! (<- isn't that Thank you in Irish ?!?)

chillywilly

i dont live in dublin, but from friends who have lived in limerick told me the violence is over exaggerated.

regarding the keane/ryan feud, i may be wrong but i dont think they bring the general public in their issues(well im sure some of them start rowdy fights).

there seems to be more feuds/gangland fights in dublin(which isnt suprising,its the capital!), these days you hear about gangsters getting gunned down every week, just look at the guy shot the other day! I personally havnt come across gang violence(on a large scale, but im sure its everywhere!

ricey

That book is a load of crap if you ask me, paul williams has a book about gangland
In Ireland and has a section on Limerick and is much better the galvins book.
as for how i feel about the fued in Limerick, it dont really bother me i know of most of the people involved and know some of them as friends and a lot of the talk you will hear from the press is just the journalists filling up there papers and news reports.
It has been over a year since any murder in Limerick so that has to be a good thing and shows that the problem was not so bad that the police couldnt control with most of the top members of gangs in jail (or dead) and the ones that are now at the top are afraid to kill or cause crime like the last lot because of all the press it brings.

billy the squid

as for how i feel about the fued in Limerick, it dont really bother me i know of most of the people involved and know some of them as friends and a lot of the talk you will hear from the press is just the journalists filling up there papers and news reports.

so they have never tried to kill each other, the papers just "made it up"

It has been over a year since any murder in Limerick so that has to be a good thing and shows that the problem was not so bad that the police couldnt control with most of the top members of gangs in jail (or dead)

I hope your not crediting the guards with the dead ones here.

and the ones that are now at the top are afraid to kill or cause crime like the last lot because of all the press it brings.

The ones at the top don't need to kill any more, they have made their money.

faustngretchen

First of all thanks to everybody for the quick reply. I know the press is certainly a factor in all of this and I think media's one of the most important factors to spread the reputation of Limerick as a crime city. However, when I talked to my students (I was an assistant teacher back then) I got the impression that the feud and the violence connected to Limerick was a somewhat big topic for them. They felt tough living in such a place so maybe some people even support what the media says about Limerick and don't want the "myth" to die?

Have there been any incidents lately connected to the feud? Is there still fighting and stuff going on or is that sorted and each family controls their area and goes out of eachother's ways?

billy the squid

However satirical this blog might be it has been following the events of the feuding families and general crime in limerick quite well

here is the link
http://aliveinlimerick.blogspot.com/

scuba steve

all the gangland and crime etc. is over exagerated in Limerick. Theres more shootings and murders in Dublin nowadays and sometimes they arent even given time on the news or whatever, but if a man is found luying unconcious in a road in Limerick city, then its gotta be on the news or on the radio. Only a couple of bad incidents have given this great city a bad name and its not deserved. In my 14-16years of living in Limerick, i have never come across violence that should get the city a nickname like "Stab CIty", maybe a few drunken fights outside a nightclub on a friday night (no injuries occuring in 99%of the cases) but where in the world is there a nightclub etc. that hasnt had a fight around it.

1huge1

well like every city limerick has some not so nice areas but in my opinion the feud ended a couple years ago , you never hear anything about it anymore (thank god)

Amazotheamazing

Firstly thanks for the use of Irish, it's always nice to see.

The feud isn't over, it has entered a period of respite. In time it will re-occur.

I don't think Limerick deserves it's reputation, it is not a violent city, it does however have violent areas. There are several large social-housing estates that were badly neglected by the the planners, the council and the government. Most of the people in these areas are in no way related to the violence, it only needs a handful of people to make an area seem unsafe and to contribute to violence. Over the past few years there has been a steady improvement in employment and facilities in these areas, resulting in a general improvement in these estates.

The feud does not affect anyone outside these areas in a material way, though it contributes to a feeling of sensitivity about the status of the city.

The media contributes significantly to the attitudes towards Limerick. For example we are told that Galway is now the 3rd city in Ireland, though figures show that the Limerick regions population is 20,000 people higher than Galways' according to figures from 2002. We are constantly told that Limerick is a negative place, not worth living in. If you are told (as an outsider) that Limerick is an awful place eventually the reputation sticks. Limerick is simply an industrial, commercial city, a title that may not sell many papers. In recent studies by UCD, Limerick people are the 5 or 6th happiest in Ireland, yet when this was reported the journalists expressed amazement that anyone could be happy in Limerick (they used the words surprising and resiliant). In general, people in Limerick are far more bothered by the continual negative press about Limerick than the feud.

This is not to say that there is not a violent element in Limerick, like any city, Limerick has it's criminal problems.

The main problem with Limerick (as a resident) is that it's dull, there's very few good city centre attractions. It's a good place for going out at the weekend, and for sports and has a 2 good muesums, a decent art gallery and plenty of good restaurants, which are fine but don't really create a good atmosphere in the city centre.

So in short, if the feud affects us fine citizens, it is mostly as a reaction to how the media unfairly represents Limerick.

faustngretchen

billy the squid wrote:

However satirical this blog might be it has been following the events of the feuding families and general crime in limerick quite well

Thanks for the link, billy. I was busy reading through the blog all morning. (Especially like the "days-since-the-last-killing-counter") The blog gives you quite a good picture of how the media influences your thoughts on things.

Having investigated a fair bit about the feud already I now more and more come to the conclusion that it's really only just the media bringing about the picture of Limerick as a dangerous place with violence everywhere.
From what I experienced myself I can say that I always felt save walking the city centre at night. Sure if you want trouble, you can get it if you visit the right places but, honestly, that's the case everywhere. The problem was I didn't know about other cities in Ireland (about their crime rate) which was why while living there I reacted so sensitive to all the news I got about killings and stabbings saying "See it's true. There's a stabbing every other night in Limerick." People also tend to overexaggerate things in there minds. If they hear about two incidents in half a year they tend to generalize it and say there are killings every couple of months.

However, I think the feud itself is not over yet. I agree with Amazotheamazing who said
"The feud isn't over, it has entered a period of respite. In time it will re-occur."
I think a new clash can happen any time. In the blog linked above a comment reads "i have had incedents with some of the above [McCarthy's etc.] and their worse than u can imagine and im no spoofer either. im not a scumbag either but i know many. the main problem with them is 'braindeadism'..." This is I think a good quote to show how high the tendency to violence is whit some lads.

Anyway, how do you people feel about the reputation Limerick gets from the media. Are you indifferent or does it bug you?

limerick_man

Well, alot of the people involved are locked up, serving life sentences (so until they get out in a 3/4 years ... its all good. )
TV3 are trying to give the impression of Limerick as a good an progressive city (which it is)! I think most people dont care about the feuding, because it doesnt effect us, people only talk about it because the media gives the impression that thats Limerick.. when the 'war' is between about 20 ppl!!!!
You were here when everything was at the tops... that was about the time that the gardaí decided to tackle it! There are helicopters over our skies... and more officers on patrol in the city! And now Limerick even has its own Minister for Defence ... so we should be good !!!

ricey

No billy the papers print the truth if there is a murder in any part of the country the press will print it, as it should be. My point is the radio shows and shows like even the late late show are all anti-Limerick and alot of the bad name this city has is because of bad press, if the press was to show the good work that is done in this city and way the law has been locking up all of these top gangs for there crimes and how much the crime rate has dropped or even something like nationwide do a show on "Limerick the riverside city" and show all the work that has been done here and all the work that is been done now to make this one of the best citys in Ireland, would everyone still look at limerick as stab city or as some scum hole in the wild west?

As for the gangs having all this money, people like that never have enough money and there will always be someone that wants to be at the top its just the old way of going around killing has to stop.

billy the squid

ricey wrote:

No billy the papers print the truth if there is a murder in any part of the country the press will print it, as it should be. My point is the radio shows and shows like even the late late show are all anti-Limerick and alot of the bad name this city has is because of bad press,

There is a simple reason for this, and that is that doing actuall research is hard work, which the civil servants in RTE are incapable of doing. That "Tale of Two Cities" primetime special was a perfect example of RTE laziness.

However, The City of limerickis not entirely blameless when it comes to the reputation that it has acquired. The idea of picking up a phone and calling Crime Stoppers in confidence is totally foreign to many people in this city. It is a bit like when the busses were stopped going into o'malley park. The residents bitched and moaned because they had to get taxis into town, whereas when they had busses, they were drinking up in the galvone while their kids were acting like animals on the streets.

There is no point in complaining about a bad reputation the city has unless people are prepared to do something about it on an individual level. The community initiatives and new buildings are great, but certain sections within our city's population need a morality reboot.

if the press was to show the good work that is done in this city and way the law has been locking up all of these top gangs for there crimes and how much the crime rate has dropped or even something like nationwide do a show on "Limerick the riverside city" and show all the work that has been done here and all the work that is been done now to make this one of the best citys in Ireland, would everyone still look at limerick as stab city or as some scum hole in the wild west?

To the best of my knowledge, this might be starting to happen. read in the post last week that there is to be a doccusoap made in the city, but whether it puts Limerick in a positive or negative light remains to be seen.

As for the gangs having all this money, people like that never have enough money and there will always be someone that wants to be at the top its just the old way of going around killing has to stop.

They have enough money to buy up houses all over the city to rent them out. thus generating more money.

gaf1983

billy the squid wrote:

They have enough money to buy up houses all over the city to rent them out. thus generating more money.

It would be great if someone could do an audit on some of those guys and lock them up for tax offences - I heard yesterday that only this summer a certain individual from the St Mary's Park area swapped one BMW for a brand new one, and he doesn't even have a genuine job.

gaf1983

Before I start my ramble, I'd like to state that yes, I do think from time to time certain sections of the media have made Limerick's problems out to be alot worse than they are, this article in The Observer about a month ago would have to be one of the worst examples. Such hyperbole does not help, and I think it does damage the morale of Limerick people engaged in resolving the city's problems.

Regarding the media's involvement in Limerick's bad name, I don't think a few token documentaries about the good things would do anything to change the wider population's opinion of the city, I think word of mouth is a much more effectiveway of changing opinions. First of all, not everyone would watch a nationwide special on the improvements witnessed in the city. Personally I don't think I'd bother watching a similar programme about Waterford, Tralee or Derry, for example. It's not the happy stories that sell the newspapers, and it never happens - how else could you explain the commercial success of tabloids peddling scandalous stories about people's problems? The idea of newspapers just reporting good things reminds me of one of Homer Simpson's inventions, the "Everything's Ok Alarm" - when everything is ok, there is no story - people only want to hear about an event if it disrupts the normal run of things. Take for example the top stories right now over on rte.ie -

Further loyalist violence in Belfast
Death sentence for Jakarta bombing
FEMA chief resigns over Katrina efforts

- I wouldn't say that any of them paint Belfast, Indonesia or New Orleans in a good light, but should the citizens of those places feel aggrieved because the media are only focussing on those places problems? I don't think so... the media are just doing their job of reporting bad stories when they occur.

The first step in overcoming a problem is to admit that it exists, and if Limerick, or indeed the rest of Ireland, is to overcome the problems caused by violent crime, and this ostrich-head-in-the-sand mentality of pretending that the problem isn't as bad as it is and using the outside media as a scapegoat the whole time will not make the problems go away.

Zapho

Every city has its bad areas, gangs and the like. Once these manage to make it into the media it starts to degrade a cities name. I hate to bring it up but right now how many people would much rather be living in Limerick city than North Belfast?
As media coverage goes, Limerick has gotten a lot of bad press over the years but that has really died down recently and peoples fears of the city have lessened.

ricey

gaf1983 wrote:

It would be great if someone could do an audit on some of those guys and lock them up for tax offences - I heard yesterday that only this summer a certain individual from the St Mary's Park area swapped one BMW for a brand new one, and he doesn't even have a genuine job.

Unless you would call giving information a job...lol

mysterious

To this day despite the malicious storeys been throwing at Limerick
I personally have never felt scared or intimidated walking the streets of Limerick and I actually feel safer there rather than Dublin.

For a city of its size we only have two garda stations, which is crazy.
The feud thing, in my opinion really isn’t all that bad as there are fighting amongst themselves and I’m not saying its any way good either
But this happens everywhere???

I can't get my head around the media, its getting tireing, insulting and for quite some time.

The papers would put a crime incident Limerick on page 3 and put a Dublin incident on page 16. Even if the crime feud faded, its still possible to hover for niitty-itty details of such and such violence that might have occurred in the city and will still make headline this annoys me.


The feud is an issue, not denying that, but why dwell on the negative all the time, why not call this city the Riverside city? When it is not stab city?
Its obvious the media are trying create a bad image, they must be jealous of how well Limerick is a great city.

I also think crime in the city has gone down, I heard it been mentioned a few months back, has anyone facts to prove this?

Limerick has its faults and is doing a lot to improve its image and is changing, so this should be highlighted, not bringing up negativity.

faustngretchen

Thanks for the detailed post about how you perceive the situation in Limerick. I've read in a recent thread that the Sunday Tribune has figures on the recent crime rate in Limerick but the site has been under construction for days now.

P.S. it'd be great if you could do my poll in this forum so the figures become a bit more representative!

Thx!

Rozie

The main problem with Limerick (as a resident) is that it's dull, there's very few good city centre attractions. It's a good place for going out at the weekend, and for sports and has a 2 good muesums, a decent art gallery and plenty of good restaurants, which are fine but don't really create a good atmosphere in the city centre.

I really have to agree with this - compared to Cork, it's no contest. I'm moving there after I finish college; I might even head down every so often anyway.

It's amazing - just walk around Cork city for a few minutes, and soak up the atmosphere, then compare it to Limerick.

Amazotheamazing

Well Cork's atmosphere has really improved in the last few years, along with the Patrick street development. So has Galway's along with the Shop Street pedestrianisation.

Limerick city centre is simply not a nice place to visit, mainly in my opinion, due to the constant through traffic in town. It makes town seem run-down, dirty, noisy and "airless" due to traffic fumes. There's too many cars and too little space, there should be no on street parking in the city centre, seeing as there is several affordable carparks in town.

If the volume of traffic were reduced, the air would be clearer, town would be less noisy, and cleaner. All dramatic improvements in my opinion.

limerick_man

Well that is what they have all planed out, the major work will be next year (i think), O'Connell Street will only be for buses and emergancy services, most places in the city will be pedestrianised or made look better. The inbound traffic will remain the same but outbound will be heading along Cathrene Street (one way ... i think)

sioda

mysterious wrote:

For a city of its size we only have two garda stations, which is crazy.

Limerick has more than two cop shops Henry Street Mayorstone Mary Street and Roxboro and to be honest if you look around the country you'll find Garda.

To be honest I think that the stations we have are adequate they are at each end of town with perhaps one needed in the sprawling city like raheen.

As against Cork who have 11 does that maybe tell you about their crime levels.

Limerick will always get bad press first due to the fact that for years Limerick had sub offices for all the major national newspapers. That was why we always got on the front page.

Lets be honest most of us on this board either grew up here or are adopted Limerickians at this stage and the comments made about the Feuds being isolated are true there has been no running battles with police and the last major outbreak of public order had to be the incident outside Supermacs and that was what nearly ten years ago and didn't involve the feuds at all.

Personally I think Limerick has had a change of face and the publicity we are getting now is mainly positive big tip of the hat to the Rugby Supporters both home and away that rave about the atmosphere in Limerick on a rugby weekend and the same to a lot of ryanair passengers who must stay in Limerick before flying out and also bring back a lot of positives about the city if not the public transport system that got them stuck here.

Well thats my 2 cents

greg678

I think its over exagerated

ricey

If you mean by all the peole that have been shot stabbed and killed
exagerated i think not.