Is Northern Ireland a lost cause?

fly_agaric

jubbly wrote:

I always felt the only solution for the north is to join with the south.

You think things are bad now???

The unionists will really throw the rattle (i.e. go on a major bombing and shooting campaign against the "Taigs in Dublin" :rolleyes: ) if this ever happens. Then the whole of Ireland can be just like NI, while NI itself stays pretty much the same! In fact, people up there will probably get even angrier due to the loss of welfare sweeties (like busses for burning) from the British government. Great.

MrPudding

jubbly wrote:

There is so much suicide, drug dealing, prostitution, bigroty, murder, unemployment, poverty etc.

Sounds just like Ireland.

MrP

Sponge Bob

I propose we call it Chavghanistan ,after all they paraded their burberry and hoodie fashion all weekend to the cameras in great style .

Loyal Chavs are truly the very Best of British

linux

murphaph wrote:

'People' who throw blast bombs at polce officers just doing their job and then attempting to murder same officers with gunfire are defective. They are scum and should be eliminated from society. This kind of behaviour wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else in the UK or in Ireland for that matter. That's why I reckon NI is a lost cause.

So what do you propose should be done then?

jank

NI is fcuked. End of story

OK so will you then stop making new threads on the evils of Sinn Fein

To the most important matter at hand.
The IRA is gone and the loyalists dont now what to do now, since they are tired of shooting each other now so they start on the PSNI.

When are the LVF, UDA, UDF going to disarm?

No politcical leadership at all from the unionist community. Blaming everybody but themselves! When there are riots in nationalist areas Sinn Fein Member are PUBLICLY seen trying to calm down matters.

Where are the members of the DUP on the streets of Belfast trying to calm down matters.

The North is trying to move on, well at least the nationalists are. Give it time. Those scumbags will be left behind in the next few years. Once they realise that we live in the 21st centuary not the 17th things may change.
Things are changing already in the north hence the riots. The loyalists are afraid that they no longer can bully and dominate like before, hence this show of anger

folk_smith

This is not going to end until the Catholics of Northern Ireland are given back their land. Yeah, I know the reformation was 300 + years ago, but that doesn't make it right. Britain remains a colonizer.




I was born on a Dublin street where the royal drums did beat,
And those loving English feet they tramped all over us,
And each and every night when me father came home tight
He'd invite the neighbors outside with this chorus:

Come out ye Black and Tans, come out and fight me like a man,
Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders,
Tell them how the IRA made you run like hell away
From the green and lovely lanes of Killashandra.

Come tell us how you slew them poor Arabs two by two,
Like the Zulus they had spears and bows and arrows,
How you bravely faced each one with your 16-pounder gun,
And you frightened them poor natives to their marrow.

Come out ye Black and Tans, come out and fight me like a man,
Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders,
Tell them how the IRA made you run like hell away
From the green and lovely lanes of Killashandra.

Come let us hear you tell how you slandered great Parnell,
When you thought him well and truly persecuted,
Where are the sneers and jeers that you bravely let us hear
When our heroes of '16 were executed?

Come out ye Black and Tans, come out and fight me like a man,
Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders,
Tell them how the IRA made you run like hell away
From the green and lovely lanes of Killashandra.

Alan Larkin and O`Brian held you strong and called you swine
Robert Emmett who you hung and drew and quartered
High upon the scaffold high, how you butchered Henry Joy
And the Croppy Boys of Wexford you did slaughter

Come out ye Black and Tans, come out and fight me like a man,
Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders,
Tell them how the IRA made you run like hell away
From the green and lovely lanes of Killashandra.

Well the day is coming fast and the time is here at last,
When each yeoman will be cut aside before us,
And if there be a need, sure me kids would sing, "Godspeed,"
With a verse or two of Stephen Behan's chorus:

Come out ye Black and Tans, come out and fight me like a man,
Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders,
Tell them how the IRA made you run like hell away
From the green and lovely lanes of Killashandra.

billy the squid

This is not going to end until the Catholics of Northern Ireland are given back their land. Yeah, I know the reformation was 300 + years ago, but that doesn't make it right. Britain remains a colonizer.

not all catholics are nationalists, they are not all landless peasants either.

folk_smith

billy the squid wrote:

not all catholics are nationalists, they are not all landless peasants either.

I wasn't suggesting that they are ....

billy the squid

firstly, the gripe the unionists have against the PSNI resulting in the rioting during the weekend has bog all to do with the poor landless catholics you speak of.

Secondly, the Brittish Government havent offered incentive schemes for residents on the mainland of the UK to move to Northern Ireland. therefore they are not "colonizing" it as you speak. they might have done so 100 years ago, but not now, to the best of my knowledge of course.

now as for the topic of the thread

the problem with the unionists is that they have no one to pick a fight with and fear that their position is under thread and feel they need the attention.

on top of that you have opportunistic crinimal activity taking place also.

and throw in a few firearms and you have what happened last weekend.

it will be at least 50 years before the ireland you speak of can be considered, the number of people who were born on the island who wish to keep their citezenship of the UK is too great. and as both ireland and Britain are democratic countries, then these people have to have to have their opinions heard, provided they do it in a peaceful manner.

zuma

Sponge Bob wrote:

I propose we call it Chavghanistan ,after all they paraded their burberry and hoodie fashion all weekend to the cameras in great style .

Loyal Chavs are truly the very Best of British

A bit of humour to break the bleakness of this thread...nice!!!

Hagar

The North is/was a divided society whose only common ground was mutual fear and hate. Now that one side has matured enough to try an break the cycle the other side has nobody left to hate and is imploding. I think its time for the British Govt to stop mollycoddling the Loyalists, declare the Loyalist ceasefires as broken. They should now take whatever action against the Loyalists that they would have taken against the Republicans if the roles were reversed.

jubbly

I think there would have been a totally different reaction if republicans were rioting.

Sponge Bob

jubbly wrote:

I think there would have been a totally different reaction if republicans were rioting.

Dunno.

Republicans may be boring narrowminded ghetto twats once they get any form of internet connection if this Board is anything to go by. Nevertheless they generally do not tend to noisily march mobhanded into areas where they are simply not welcome and then riot when they are told they can't do that by the security forces.

The loyal British uber - chavs are rioting because they were not allowed to walk 200m of fenian road and thats all the rationale they have for all that has happened in the past few days .

If I was advising the PSNI right now I would suggest to them that they should imagine the chavs were suicide bombers trying to kill the plod and act accordingly

Hobbes

chavs are rioting because they were not allowed to walk 200m of fenian road and thats all the rationale they have for all that has happened in the past few days .

From what I have seen the attacks were planned. They had footage of people throwing petrol bombs from a large box full of them.

jubbly

I meant there would have been a totally different reaction from Unionist leaders if republican were rioting.

PUP leader was saying things like, lets not look at the violance, lets look at the causes of violane. UUP was saying things like, this violance happened because republicans get what they want after they use violance. Forget what the DUP were saying.

If republicans were rioting, there would be complete condimation from all sides. What cant they have a cohertent policy.

I dont support republicans in anyway btw.

murphaph

linux wrote:

So what do you propose should be done then?

Absolutely nothing. Nothing should be done for NI. Let them sort it all out amongst each other with no interference by either british or irish governments. Let's all stop wasting our efforts on the place. It seems to be inhabited by a bunch of attention whores and as already mentioned the electorate is voting for the extremes (SF/DUP) in a secret ballot so claiming it's just a minority of extremists is bullsh!t really. The british taxpayer (£8 spent in NI for every £1 generated in taxes there!) will have to replace those buses, clean those streets, pay those police officers overtime bills and pay for their medical treatment, all just until it happens again. So the british subsidy should be withdrawn too as they seem to just waste it on this kind of rubbish.

linux

murphaph wrote:

The british taxpayer (£8 spent in NI for every £1 generated in taxes there!) will have to replace those buses, clean those streets, pay those police officers overtime bills and pay for their medical treatment, all just until it happens again. So the british subsidy should be withdrawn too as they seem to just waste it on this kind of rubbish.

Yep, and until the British Gov finally decide to leave and clean up the mess they started they will continue to pay through the nose for it....

zuma

murphaph wrote:

(£8 spent in NI for every £1 generated in taxes there!).

Is it really that high??????????

Honestly though is it....because the last thing the people in NI should vote for then is to secede from the UK.

As the saying goes "it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas"!!!

If Londoners knew who were really paying the price for these riots they would start rioting themselves.

A Dub in Glasgo

This is the nice little secret that is swept under the carpet over here in Britain. A lot of people are now beginning to question the misuse of taxpayers money to prop up the gerrymandered state.

murphaph

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

This is the nice little secret that is swept under the carpet over here in Britain. A lot of people are now beginning to question the misuse of taxpayers money to prop up the gerrymandered state.

Thankfully the closeness of Northern Ireland means that people here are well aware of the cost of maintaining the kip.

Hagar

I think if the the British could find a way to off-load Northern Ireland without losing their dignity they would jump at the chance. However I don't think they would be as quick to let go the territorial waters and the fishing rights plus any possible oil or mineral deposits that might be there. Does anyone here remember the Cod Wars with Iceland or the landing and planting of a Union Jack on Rockall?

Money my lads, money is the key to all this.

folk_smith

jubbly wrote:

I think there would have been a totally different reaction if republicans were rioting.

You're damn right there would be. Hell, folks get nervous anytime five or more of 'em get together for a pint.

CJhaughey

murphaph wrote:

Absolutely nothing. Nothing should be done for NI. Let them sort it all out amongst each other with no interference by either british or irish governments. Let's all stop wasting our efforts on the place. It seems to be inhabited by a bunch of attention whores and as already mentioned the electorate is voting for the extremes (SF/DUP) in a secret ballot so claiming it's just a minority of extremists is bullsh!t really. The british taxpayer (£8 spent in NI for every £1 generated in taxes there!) will have to replace those buses, clean those streets, pay those police officers overtime bills and pay for their medical treatment, all just until it happens again. So the british subsidy should be withdrawn too as they seem to just waste it on this kind of rubbish.

If all military and civil policing was withdrawn the province that is NI would rapidly follow the path forged by the likes of Macedonia, and the Balkans.
You cannot pull out and leave a power vacuum as it will be filled by extremist thugs (as we can see already).
Despite the graphic TV streams most of NI is composed of normal people, just like you or me (if we could be classed as normal!).
It would not be fair to them or anybody if the province suddenly was allowed to degenerate into free for all.
In addition the lawlessness would probably spread into the Republic too.
You cannot judge a whole province on the actions of a few knuckle draggers just as you cannot judge Dublin on the actions of the Westies etc.

miju

my personal opinion on the whole matter is indeed that the Unionists are scared and don't know what to be doing with themselves now the IRA are moving forward.

The show is now going to firmly on the other foot with the UVF and so forth as I read in the Indpendant yesterday the British government are now getting ready to formally announce the UVF ceasefire is no longer in existince. It was also VERY encouraging to read the IRA made a statement that it will be continuing on with its decommishening plans regardless.

The Unionists are going to get a taste of their own medicine as the IRA now have the higher moral ground (for want of a better description/phrase) so now once the IRA disarm all focus will shift to the Unionists paramilitary organisations and the unionists ain't got a clue what to do about that hence their little tantrum.

murphaph

CJhaughey wrote:

If all military and civil policing was withdrawn the province that is NI would rapidly follow the path forged by the likes of Macedonia, and the Balkans.
You cannot pull out and leave a power vacuum as it will be filled by extremist thugs (as we can see already).
Despite the graphic TV streams most of NI is composed of normal people, just like you or me (if we could be classed as normal!).
It would not be fair to them or anybody if the province suddenly was allowed to degenerate into free for all.
In addition the lawlessness would probably spread into the Republic too.
You cannot judge a whole province on the actions of a few knuckle draggers just as you cannot judge Dublin on the actions of the Westies etc.

The population as a whole has a right to vote for the middle ground, but they don't. They have swung more and more to the extremes by voing SF/DUP. I can't feel sorry for the majority of Norn Iron citizens when they're the ones voting for these extremists. If they're all so moderate up there and the knuckle draggers really are in the minority then why aren't the UUP/SDLP sharing power in Stormont right now?

zuma

murphaph wrote:

The population as a whole has a right to vote for the middle ground, but they don't. They have swung more and more to the extremes by voing SF/DUP. I can't feel sorry for the majority of Norn Iron citizens when they're the ones voting for these extremists. If they're all so moderate up there and the knuckle draggers really are in the minority then why aren't the UUP/SDLP sharing power in Stormont right now?

Exactly!!!

This is exactly what the peoples of N.I. have voted for...and this is what they deserve!!!!

rsynnott

Build a wall.

rsynnott

rsynnott wrote:

Build a wall.

Thay have, 30 of them...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/545000/images/_547387_wall300.jpg

rsynnott

Deleted User wrote:

Thay have, 30 of them...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/545000/images/_547387_wall300.jpg

I was thinking more of one along the border

(joke, in case anyone hasn't guessed)

zuma

rsynnott wrote:

I was thinking more of one along the border

(joke, in case anyone hasn't guessed)

The border with N.Ireland is 360 km.
Israel are currently building a 600 km long wall against the West Bank.

So it is possible....but who will pay for it???